Trump’s Bold Proposal to End Gaza’s Cycle of Suffering

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Don’t think for one minute that pretending you lived and worked in the region for many years will give your comments any credence.

 

 

Firstly I’m not pretending anything.

 

Secondly you seemed to miss the point I was making to a member who was claiming his time spent in the region gave his remarks some authority.

 

Try not to judge the life experiences of others on the basis of the limits of your own.

 

‘Middle East experience’ has played a part in ‘feathering the nest’ of many a westerner living a comfortable life in Thailand, I’m surprised you were not aware of this fact.

 

Now back to the topic please.

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Firstly I’m not pretending anything.

 

Secondly you seemed to miss the point I was making to a member who was claiming his time spent in the region gave his remarks some authority.

 

Try not to judge the life experiences of others on the basis of the limits of your own.

 

‘Middle East experience’ has played a part in ‘feathering the nest’ of many a westerner living a comfortable life in Thailand, I’m surprised you were not aware of this fact.

 

Now back to the topic please.

 

 

I simply don't believe you; when I relayed some of my life experiences on several comments that I made, you accused me several times of lying; but now you want your alleged experiences to be accepted as fact. Classic left wing double standards, don't do as I do, do as I say ... hilarious 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Just now, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

I simply don't believe you; when I relayed some of my life experiences on several comments that I made, you accused me several times of lying; but now you want your alleged experiences to be accepted as fact. Classic left wing double standards, don't do as I do, do as I say ... hilarious 

 

 

Not quite.

 

I have in the past absolutely accused you of lying when you made statements, always grossly prejudiced, that were lies.

 

And then only after giving you multiple opportunities to back up or withdraw your false statements.

 

I don’t care if you believe me, I have banked the rewards.

 

Now back to the topic of discussion please.

[Nid_Noi]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really?

Did you ask any Palestinian about that?

Or is that an idea from someone far away with the finger on the map?

 

How about an article which points out all the illegal activities from Israel and the USA over the last decades?

Like why do Palestinians live in rubble? Who created the rubble?

There wouldn't be any rubble without Israel and the USA.

There would be a few goat herders living like bedouins or it would have been another Beyrouth where Christians, Sunni, Chiites and Hezbollah would fight each other and turned (like the former “Switzerland of the Middle East” ) into a constant war zone.

Palestinians’ motto: “From the river to the sea” does not need any explanation. It’s part of the Jihad.

Maybe if the western nations (including Russia) had not persecuted the Jews for centuries there would not be the state of Israel. 
 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, Nid_Noi said:

There would be a few goat herders living like bedouins or it would have been another Beyrouth where Christians, Sunni, Chiites and Hezbollah would fight each other and turned (like the former “Switzerland of the Middle East” ) into a constant war zone.

Palestinians’ motto: “From the river to the sea” does not need any explanation. It’s part of the Jihad.

Maybe if the western nations (including Russia) had not persecuted the Jews for centuries there would not be the state of Israel. 
 

 

 

So it seems for Palestinians to say “From the river to the sea” is a crime. If Trump says it in slightly different words, then it's ok?

[Eric Loh]

37 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The member said they withdrew from Gaza around 20 years ago, that is absolutely correct, away with your diversion

Not accurate. Israel did dismantled 21 Israel settlements in the Gaza strip and West Bank 20 years but Gaza strip still under military occupation according to UN and International human rights organizations and many legal scholars. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really?

When Isreal kills ten thousands of innocent people, including children, then they call it defending their country, or maybe collateral damage.

When people who are condemned to an open-air prison for decades fight the occupier then people call that terrorism. Strange.

 

 

Okay, so do you think that the actions of Hamas, and other Palestinians, on 7 October 2023, was terrorism or not ? and if so, do you think it was justified, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

 

Might help if you consider the chronological order of events before replying

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

8 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Not accurate. Israel did dismantled 21 Israel settlements in the Gaza strip and West Bank 20 years but Gaza strip still under military occupation according to UN and International human rights organizations and many legal scholars. 

It's absolutely accurate. They withdrew from Gaza 2005. Fact

 

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/21/1214529460/former-israeli-prime-minister-reflects-on-the-2005-withdrawal-from-gaza

[Eloquent pilgrim]

10 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Gaza strip still under military occupation according to UN and International human rights organizations and many legal scholars. 

 

Incorrect; Israel withdrew all military personnel from Gaza between August and September of 2005

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Might help if you consider the chronological order of events before replying

 

What Hamas did on the 7th October 2023 was obviously wrong. And what Israel did for decades before that date was also often wrong.

Does one wrong make another wrong right? No.

 

The whole mess exists because Palestinians were removed from their land to establish Israel. Whoever had that idea and thought they will all live happily ever after was stupid or delusional.

A fights B. B fights back. And then A fights back, and then B again.

But somehow when A fights then some people thing that is ok. But when B fights that is not ok.

I think both should stop fighting. And if A does not stop, then don't be surprised that B also doesn't stop.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

What Hamas did on the 7th October 2023 was obviously wrong. And what Israel did for decades before that date was also often wrong.

Does one wrong make another wrong right? No.

 

The whole mess exists because Palestinians were removed from their land to establish Israel. Whoever had that idea and thought they will all live happily ever after was stupid or delusional.

A fights B. B fights back. And then A fights back, and then B again.

But somehow when A fights then some people thing that is ok. But when B fights that is not ok.

I think both should stop fighting. And if A does not stop, then don't be surprised that B also doesn't stop.

Extreme false equivalence 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

18 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

What Hamas did on the 7th October 2023 was obviously wrong

 

 

Wrong …… wrong ? jeez, why don’t you try and display your antisemitism more clearly.

 

It wasn’t simply wrong, it was the most brutal, sadistic, barbaric, and savage act of terrorism in modern history, and all you can do is call it wrong.

 

Shame on  you.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

 

Wrong …… wrong ? jeez, why don’t you try and display your antisemitism more clearly.

 

It wasn’t simply wrong, it was the most brutal, sadistic, barbaric, and savage act of terrorism in modern history, and all you can do is call it wrong.

 

Shame on  you.

 

 

You got that wrong. Hamas killed about 1,000 people on that day.

Israel killed over 45,000 people after that day including over 17,000 children.

To quote you, that was "the most brutal, sadistic, barbaric, and savage act of terrorism in modern history".

[WDSmart]

Despicable! 😡

[Bkk Brian]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

You got that wrong. Hamas killed about 1,000 people on that day.

Israel killed over 45,000 people after that day including over 17,000 children.

To quote you, that was "the most brutal, sadistic, barbaric, and savage act of terrorism in modern history".

Hamas figures. Check the relevant topics for the facts

[Yagoda]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Israel is occupying Palestinian land - not the other way around.

 

You are perpetuating a lie

[cdemundo]

8 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Really?

Did you ask any Palestinian about that?

Or is that an idea from someone far away with the finger on the map?

 

How about an article which points out all the illegal activities from Israel and the USA over the last decades?

Like why do Palestinians live in rubble? Who created the rubble?

There wouldn't be any rubble without Israel and the USA.

"There wouldn't be any rubble without Israel and the USA."

 

I think most of the rubble has been created since the October 7 attacks.

What did you expect Israel to do? 

Send a sternly worded letter?

 

What did Hamas expect to accomplish by the October 7 attacks and atrocities?

That isn't meant to be a rhetorical question, what in the world did they expect to accomplish?

What possible purpose did those attacks serve?

 

Gaza reaped the whirlwind after the October 7 attacks.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, cdemundo said:

"There wouldn't be any rubble without Israel and the USA."

 

I think most of the rubble has been created since the October 7 attacks.

What did you expect Israel to do? 

Send a sternly worded letter?

 

What did Hamas expect to accomplish by the October 7 attacks and atrocities?

That isn't meant to be a rhetorical question, what in the world did they expect to accomplish?

What possible purpose did those attacks serve?

 

Gaza reaped the whirlwind after the October 7 attacks.

 

Imagine you would live in Gaza, with decades of occupation and suppression from Israel.

Would you just sit back and accept that they stole your land? And would you accept to be a prisoner without rights for the rest of your life?

Maybe you would accept that. Or more likely you wouldn't accept it but somehow you think they should accept it.

I understand that most Palestinians hate their occupier.

Desperate people do desperate things.

 

[Yagoda]

14 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Imagine you would live in Gaza, with decades of occupation and suppression from Israel.

Would you just sit back and accept that they stole your land? And would you accept to be a prisoner without rights for the rest of your life?

Maybe you would accept that. Or more likely you wouldn't accept it but somehow you think they should accept it.

I understand that most Palestinians hate their occupier.

Desperate people do desperate things.

 

Well now is their chance to save their kids lives. Because thats who you anti semites are playing with.

[cdemundo]

16 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Imagine you would live in Gaza, with decades of occupation and suppression from Israel.

Would you just sit back and accept that they stole your land? And would you accept to be a prisoner without rights for the rest of your life?

Maybe you would accept that. Or more likely you wouldn't accept it but somehow you think they should accept it.

I understand that most Palestinians hate their occupier.

Desperate people do desperate things.

 

But my question is simply this:

What was the purpose of the October attacks?

What were they intended to accomplish?

[Yagoda]

Just now, cdemundo said:

But my question is simply this:

What was the purpose of the October attacks?

What were they intended to accomplish?

Kill Jews. Notice how they concentrate on the elderly, women and children. Like their ideological forebearers, the Einsatzgruppen of the National Socialists they are cowards.

 

Payback then was the Red Army.

[Bkk Brian]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

Imagine you would live in Gaza, with decades of occupation and suppression from Israel.

Would you just sit back and accept that they stole your land? And would you accept to be a prisoner without rights for the rest of your life?

Maybe you would accept that. Or more likely you wouldn't accept it but somehow you think they should accept it.

I understand that most Palestinians hate their occupier.

Desperate people do desperate things.

 

Its not had decades of occupation, stop the lies, Hamas has been in charge since 2007 and since then all they've done is rule with an iron fist, spent millions on tunnels, rockets, weapons and fighters to wipe Israel out. All money that was supposed to be helping the local Palestinians.

 

There you go again making excuses for Oct 7th. Disgusting.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

24 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I understand that most Palestinians hate their occupier.

 

You don’t seem to understand anything about this conflict whatsoever; the Palestinians occupier is Hamas, a terrorist organisation that you have shown support for on this forum.

 

You cannot even accept that the atrocities of 7 October were an act of terrorism. I feel sorry for you that you have been so far indoctrinated by left wing, and Hamas propaganda, that it has left you unable to think for yourself; and if you cannot accept that the 7 October atrocities were an act of terrorism, then you clearly cannot think at all.

 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

It's absolutely accurate. They withdrew from Gaza 2005. Fact

 

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/21/1214529460/former-israeli-prime-minister-reflects-on-the-2005-withdrawal-from-gaza

Israel still control the Gaza strip's airspace and territorial waters as well as the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air and sea. UN consider that to be the occupying power. 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

32 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Israel still control the Gaza strip's airspace and territorial waters as well as the movement of people or goods in or out of Gaza by air and sea. UN consider that to be the occupying power. 

 

Yes, Israel has been trying (unsuccessfully) to prevent rockets and other munitions being shipped to Hamas from Iran; do you blame them for that ?

 

Are you referring to that same trustworthy UN that the US has just suspended funding for ? that same UN whose agency UNRWA had been keeping one of the kidnapped Israeli hostages in one of their facilities in Gaza, and some of whose workers (sic) took part in the October 7 slaughters …. that totally impartial UN ?

 

 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

11 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Yes, Israel has been trying (unsuccessfully) to prevent rockets and other munitions being shipped to Hamas from Iran; do you blame them for that ?

 

Are you referring to that same trustworthy UN that the US has just suspended funding for ? that same UN whose agency UNRWA had been keeping one of the kidnapped Israeli hostages in one of their facilities in Gaza, and some of whose workers (sic) took part in the October 7 slaughters …. that totally impartial UN ?

 

 

 

 

Of course he quit UNRWA as he fear a review of his human rights violations in US and Israel. 

 

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

Of course he quit UNRWA as he fear a review of his human rights violations in US and Israel. 

 

UNRWA doesn't do human rights, they do have staff that work for Hamas and even some who kept hostages, along with another who took a dead Israeli body back to Gaza.

 

Talking of UNRWA, Italy just refused to work with them to.

 

Italian Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister @Antonio_Tajani sends a strong message—Now more than ever, it’s clear—
@UNRWA is not the solution; it’s the problem: “We don’t want to work with UNRWA, and we condemn the use of UNRWA offices as a prison for Israeli hostages.”

 

 

[Thingamabob]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your expertise on the view within the region is in stark contrast to the statements made this week by the Government’s of Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia.

The radical approach is stop the tail wagging the dog and give tge Palestinians their inalienable rights to self determination in their own Palestinian state.

 

 

Fair enough. Enjoy the rest of your day.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

27 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Of course he quit UNRWA as he fear a review of his human rights violations in US and Israel. 

 

 

Excellent piece of deflection and avoidance; you throw a stick at Trump, but not one single word about the Hamas affiliated agency, UNRWA, hiding an Israeli hostage on behalf of Hamas; not just hiding her, but denying her medical aid when she had been shot in the leg, and also shot in the hand loosing 2 fingers … aid agency, my aunt fanny’s fat arse. Hamas agency.

 

 

And not a word either about some of their operatives taking part in the 7 October atrocities, not one word, just a swipe at Trump. And you quote the UN as if they have some legitimacy. I hope you are not another antisemite, because we have far too many on this forum already.

 

 

 

 

[retayl]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Your expertise on the view within the region is in stark contrast to the statements made this week by the Government’s of Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia.

The radical approach is stop the tail wagging the dog and give tge Palestinians their inalienable rights to self determination in their own Palestinian state.

 

 

The Palestinians have been offered their own state on numerous occasions since 1948. They have always rejected one assumes because acceptance would require recognition of Israel’s right to exist.