Nightmare at the Prachuap tax office

[Briggsy]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 Asked and answered!  Just one example, from American tax advisor Thomas Carden in a recent interview:

 

 

 

 

Thanks. American tax advisor Thomas Carden.

[Presnock]

12 hours ago, thesetat said:

I think you can not read. I said I was there and asking questions. I never said i tried to file the taxes. I wanted information to see if I had to file. My logic was sound. However, logic does not work when dealing with Thais. They have no clue what is going on. NO tax return was filed when there. Just unanswered questions. 

I am unsure as top why expats continue to go to local offices when they have no real reason to go.  Most answers we see are just that from local rd officers - no real idea,  some say file and RD will figure up your taxable amount and they have no idea if you have assessable on non assessable income.  I have read he RD notes, seen umptiump webinars and all basically say the same thing unless they want YOUR business.  Very few of us I think will have any real problems this year until the RD gets all their folks on board and they put out the same story.  Non-assessable income includes any income non-assessable due to exemption by DTA or exemption by Royal Decree or if there is some other exemption then non-assessable so nothing needs to be obtained from the local rd office.  Once the tax season filling is over in April then believe the RD will look at the results and unless some folks wake up then the RD will be swamped by zero tax forms filed or if enough expats wake up, very few filed.  Then the RD will probably look at remittances as provided by the local banks, and determine what least amount and above will get some kind of notice to proved the RD with ample evidence of exemptions.  If people have their documents ready, then this should be easy notice I said should be easy but do not really have any idea about the RD folks in general.  If however, I am targetted and the RD doesn't like my documentation even though the big exemptions are BOI LTR documents (visa) and DTA then I will contact the US Embassy and US State department that the RD is possibly violating the treaty with the US.  I do wish only the best of luck for everyone in this tax season.  I have always done exactly what is written in the tax laws of whatever country I have lived in (many!).  If Thailand changes their tax laws to cancel the DTA then I would become concerned enough about the tax situation to possibly make other plans.  I do hope the RD folks are intelligent enough to THINK about all the possibilities concerning the tax situations of the expats as well as their own folks.

[Presnock]

17 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Until then, have your wife call TRD helpline #1161 to get valid information.

 

15 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

I know, that's why I said " with your logic" .

 

Meaning that, if he was trying to declare it this year, he should have also tried to declare it for many years previously. 

 

 

Current US-Thai DTA has been in effect since signing in 1997!  easy enough to check instead of guessing all the time.

[Presnock]

17 hours ago, thesetat said:

the lady was estimating without using any form. she showed me calculator showing 27000 baht for the amount of my SSI. Not including my kids portion. 

you could maybe get the same figure by checking with any of the taxagents!  at least you could get a 15-minute free consultation - especially if it is about exemption of US SS payments!  or just READ the US-Thai DTA article 20!

 

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

I am unsure as top why expats continue to go to local offices when they have no real reason to go.  Most answers we see are just that from local rd officers - no real idea,  some say file and RD will figure up your taxable amount and they have no idea if you have assessable on non assessable income.  I have read he RD notes, seen umptiump webinars and all basically say the same thing unless they want YOUR business.  Very few of us I think will have any real problems this year until the RD gets all their folks on board and they put out the same story.  Non-assessable income includes any income non-assessable due to exemption by DTA or exemption by Royal Decree or if there is some other exemption then non-assessable so nothing needs to be obtained from the local rd office.  Once the tax season filling is over in April then believe the RD will look at the results and unless some folks wake up then the RD will be swamped by zero tax forms filed or if enough expats wake up, very few filed.  Then the RD will probably look at remittances as provided by the local banks, and determine what least amount and above will get some kind of notice to proved the RD with ample evidence of exemptions.  If people have their documents ready, then this should be easy notice I said should be easy but do not really have any idea about the RD folks in general.  If however, I am targetted and the RD doesn't like my documentation even though the big exemptions are BOI LTR documents (visa) and DTA then I will contact the US Embassy and US State department that the RD is possibly violating the treaty with the US.  I do wish only the best of luck for everyone in this tax season.  I have always done exactly what is written in the tax laws of whatever country I have lived in (many!).  If Thailand changes their tax laws to cancel the DTA then I would become concerned enough about the tax situation to possibly make other plans.  I do hope the RD folks are intelligent enough to THINK about all the possibilities concerning the tax situations of the expats as well as their own folks.

 

Well on the other tax thread one guy had been to the tax office 4  yes 4 times because they would not give him a TIN and said he owed no taxes...

 

The guy could not let a sleeping horse lay.....And was desperate to pay taxes whether he owed them or not...

[Enzian]

11 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The only change is that in the  past if the money was remitted in a different year than it was earned, it was exempt. That loophole was closed as of tax year 2024. Nothing else changed. 

And has that change actually been set in stone, or does it need to be formally published or could it still be taken to court or something?

[Presnock]

47 minutes ago, Enzian said:

And has that change actually been set in stone, or does it need to be formally published or could it still be taken to court or something?

I could be mistaken but I thought this was published in the Gazette but in any case, it wasn't really a change to the law, just an interpretation that was used for many years so the arliament didn't have to weigh in on it.  Go back tro the original forums where this interpretation first began and read the thousands of guesses on the meanings and how it affects expats and local thai workers in or out of the country.

[Briggsy]

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

 

Well on the other tax thread one guy had been to the tax office 4  yes 4 times because they would not give him a TIN and said he owed no taxes...

 

The guy could not let a sleeping horse lay.....And was desperate to pay taxes whether he owed them or not...

Indeed, many have become panicked by listening to unreliable sources rather than coolly analysing the situation and the facts.

 

Once panic takes hold (in any situation) rational decision-making goes right out of the window.

[Presnock]

3 hours ago, redwood1 said:

 

Well on the other tax thread one guy had been to the tax office 4  yes 4 times because they would not give him a TIN and said he owed no taxes...

 

The guy could not let a sleeping horse lay.....And was desperate to pay taxes whether he owed them or not...

like I have read too many times since last year and have responded too, plus numerous webinars from RD officials to tax agents to "tax experts" some of which did in fact produce accurate charts and info where one could read for themselves.  What I have seen ifrom hundreds of questions and answers, many times repeated daily, is that at this point everyone should realize that the Govt, Finance Ministry, Revenue Dept, tax agents, forum users, continue saying exactly what is at the beginning of this forum - this is an opinion forum.  Now, if one has specifics, one can go to the RD web page and can find some accurate information but which most likely will not fit 100% of one's question, thus must GUESS again.  Or one can go to one of the numerous local rd offices and learn that there too they will guess at your situation even if there is a CLEAR answer to many questions especially for American retirees on a civil service pension or drawing social security - this has been answered numerous times over the past year - there is no gray area about these two incomes - they are exempt by the DTA between the US and Thailand.  Other countries too have some exemptions.  Other retirees, not working in Thailand, have an LTR which exempts their foreign income remitted into Thailand.  Others have ony funds coming out of savings with documentation proving that these funds were in the savings account prior to 01 January 2023,  One group of LTR folks may be working with a BOI assisted work permit and thus pay a lower tax on their earnings - one can easily check out the benefits of  the BOI LTR.  Getting a tax ID number although one doesn't have any assessable income remitted - by definition, the RD should not issue a ID number and even when advised about this, the expat/foreigner wants to argue or continue seeking that ID number.  I sure don't understand what is wrong with some of these people.   But if someone wants to waste their time, achieve no workable and accurate filing tax forms that are incomplete and useless for that individual, I guess I should ask myself why even waste my time so  I will cease to respond to any queries on this subject but I do wish the best to all.

[Sigmund]

10 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

When counting days make sure to include both the day of arrival and departure and leave a few spare days in there as well just in case something comes up and you need to pop back over to Thailand or get delayed by a few days - assuming multiple trips back and forth throughout each year.

 

What I do is print out a calendar with 6 months on each side of an A4 piece of paper and literally write numbers on them for each country - one calendar per country. Can't go wrong with that approach and it matches my passport exactly. Then just keep it plus travel proofs / passport scans, etc. Be sure to NOT use automatic gates as you don't get a stamp - why complicate things when there's no need.

This is how I'm doing it - spent a good while in Phnom Penh last year, rented a place in Cambodia for a year - this year I'm moving to Siem Reap if I like it - going to check it out on my first trip out of the country.

For me Phnom Penh is a bit on the big side and everything's spread out too much, lots of traffic, etc - now Siem Reap looks a lot more like it and from what I hear it's a lot cheaper than Phnom Penh - which isn't expensive anyway - like half the price of Phnom Penh for houses/apartments. I guess I'll find out when I go there.......but I am definitely going back to Cambodia, and soon. Moving from Phnom Penh could be a bit of an annoyance but not too much - you can simply pay a company to do it all for you which is what I intend to do.

Why Cambodia? Easy Visas - you can get a 1 year visa very easily through an agent ($400-500 depending on the service speed you select), there's a few agents but I used one named 'Call Kim' who can be found on facebook ad mentioned in multiple forums - 100% legit and I've left and returned to the country multiple times using this visa over the last year.

When you enter you get an entry stamp but it doesn't have an exit date. Just tell them you're an investor and considering buying property if asked at immigration and you're in.

If you're over 55 you can get a retirement visa. Simple.
 

Very true for the automatic gates. But one needs to argue a bit with the usher pushing people towards the automated gates on departure from BKK airport. This is going to be another fine mess as immigration will obviously see a new opening to make fuss and harass the foreigner a bit more in Thailand due to the lack of a departure stamp.

 

India also has great visa incentives for upto 5 years and  none of the absurd requirements that Thailand imposes for long stay visas. The price of the long stay indian visa is also far less and one can see that India is now much more advanced and developped in many cases, compared to Thailand.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Enzian said:

And has that change actually been set in stone, or does it need to be formally published or could it still be taken to court or something?

That change is in effect and final. It is not a tax  law change just a tweaking of RD regulation. 

[TheAppletons]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

like I have read too many times since last year and have responded too, plus numerous webinars from RD officials to tax agents to "tax experts" some of which did in fact produce accurate charts and info where one could read for themselves.  What I have seen ifrom hundreds of questions and answers, many times repeated daily, is that at this point everyone should realize that the Govt, Finance Ministry, Revenue Dept, tax agents, forum users, continue saying exactly what is at the beginning of this forum - this is an opinion forum.  Now, if one has specifics, one can go to the RD web page and can find some accurate information but which most likely will not fit 100% of one's question, thus must GUESS again.  Or one can go to one of the numerous local rd offices and learn that there too they will guess at your situation even if there is a CLEAR answer to many questions especially for American retirees on a civil service pension or drawing social security - this has been answered numerous times over the past year - there is no gray area about these two incomes - they are exempt by the DTA between the US and Thailand.  Other countries too have some exemptions.  Other retirees, not working in Thailand, have an LTR which exempts their foreign income remitted into Thailand.  Others have ony funds coming out of savings with documentation proving that these funds were in the savings account prior to 01 January 2023,  One group of LTR folks may be working with a BOI assisted work permit and thus pay a lower tax on their earnings - one can easily check out the benefits of  the BOI LTR.  Getting a tax ID number although one doesn't have any assessable income remitted - by definition, the RD should not issue a ID number and even when advised about this, the expat/foreigner wants to argue or continue seeking that ID number.  I sure don't understand what is wrong with some of these people.   But if someone wants to waste their time, achieve no workable and accurate filing tax forms that are incomplete and useless for that individual, I guess I should ask myself why even waste my time so  I will cease to respond to any queries on this subject but I do wish the best to all.

 

TLDR

 

[TheAppletons]

1 hour ago, Sigmund said:

India also has great visa incentives for upto 5 years and  none of the absurd requirements that Thailand imposes for long stay visas. The price of the long stay indian visa is also far less and one can see that India is now much more advanced and developped in many cases, compared to Thailand.

 

  I'd probably consider moving to India if it weren't for all of the Indians living there.  

[tlcwaterfall]

5 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

TLDR

 

Agree and again there are no paragraphs which makes the whole post difficult to read and pretty much useless despite its possible value.

 

Would be great if the poster would include paragraphs for the benefit of others.