Musk targets Social Security with blatant misinformation

[impulse]

1 hour ago, radiogeneris said:

Ha ha, Smartest man Nailed it:

 

NEW: Elon Musk says talking to liberals about Trump is like dealing with people “shot with a dart in the jugular that contained methamphetamine and rabies.”

 

This might be the best 50 seconds from the whole interview.

 

“They call it, like, Trump Derangement Syndrome. You don’t realize how real this is until you can’t reason with people. I was at a friend’s birthday party in L.A.—a nice, quiet dinner—and I happened to mention the President’s name.

 

“And it was like they got shot with a dart in the jugular that contained, like, methamphetamine and rabies. Okay. And they’re like, (raging sound) what is wrong, guys? You just can’t have a normal conversation. It’s like they become completely irrational.”

 

 

 

 

I got a good chuckle out of that rabies comparison. 

 

He nailed it...

[Patong2021]

4 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Biden should have fixed it

 

Biden did not have the legal power to write legislation, nor have it made into law. Only Congress can pass  laws and the Republican factions  did their utmost to block any changes.

[candide]

6 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Biden should have fixed it

He signed the 15% minimum tax agreement. Trump pulled out!

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-declares-oecd-tax-deal-has-no-force-or-effect-us-2025-01-21/

 

 

[Harrisfan]

4 minutes ago, candide said:

He signed the 15% minimum tax agreement. Trump pulled out!

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-declares-oecd-tax-deal-has-no-force-or-effect-us-2025-01-21/

 

 

Biden could have stopped taxing poor people. He didnt.

[candide]

14 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Biden could have stopped taxing poor people. He didnt.

Ok

[Patong2021]

53 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Biden could have stopped taxing poor people. He didnt.

 

Poor people pay minimal tax and receive far more in benefits and services than they contribute. In effect they already get an almost free ride. The income tax burden is carried by a relatively small number of taxpayers. People complain about the wealthy, but the majority of them pay more than their fair share of income taxes.

 

 

[simple1]

4 hours ago, frank83628 said:

Aggghhh   musk is evil for exposing things like this and must be stopped, I want SS money wasted!!!😡😡

 

Its from MSNBC too, the holy Grail of truth, no faux news

 

 

Not so bad given it's only 0.84% of all payments. Though I query how Musk was able to identify the "improper payments" within a matter of weeks. More likely the overpayments were already identified. What's missing is legal action taken to recoup monies and how much recovered.

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

Biden could have stopped taxing poor people. He didnt.

 

At what income level is tax started to apply, and tax minimisation for having to support children and so on. trump , through his tax lawyers is obviously expert at tax minimisation - $750 a year - lol

[Harrisfan]

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Poor people pay minimal tax and receive far more in benefits and services than they contribute. In effect they already get an almost free ride. The income tax burden is carried by a relatively small number of taxpayers. People complain about the wealthy, but the majority of them pay more than their fair share of income taxes.

 

 

The next 4 people must be the smartest.

 

[frank83628]

22 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Not so bad given it's only 0.84% of all payments. Though I query how Musk was able to identify the "improper payments" within a matter of weeks. More likely the overpayments were already identified. What's missing is legal action taken to recoup monies and how much recovered.

Of course, can never give any credit even when necessary 

[radiogeneris]

8 hours ago, bannork said:

The quote I was referring to was about Trump, not Musk. And indeed Trump confirmed his stupidity today claiming Zelensky has an approval rating of only 4 % when the last poll gave him more than 50%.

He then claimed Ukraine could have stopped the war three years ago!

Hello Trump, it was Russia who invaded Ukraine, you idiot, Russia who has bombed Ukraine for three years despite claiming they would win in three days.

The embarrassment of having a President talk absolute tripe. 

 

 

Do you mean that fake poll? Too much MSM Propaganda. Elon showing you real data...

 

 

[radiogeneris]

In response to lame comments (propagated by leftist MSM propaganda ) that Elon Musk is unelected billionaire with access to social security.

 

Oh, he is in charge of US Government agency and appointed like any other government agency leader by president with proper security clearances. 

 

Are you saying that only elected officials have had access to this data prior to Elon Musk?

Aren’t all government officials in these departments and agencies unelected?

Isn’t your sudden solicitousness for our privacy a ruse to protect bureaucratic waste, fraud and abuse?

[bannork]

16 minutes ago, radiogeneris said:

 

Do you mean that fake poll? Too much MSM Propaganda. Elon showing you real data...

 

 

52% popularity for Zelensky in the last poll in December. More than Trump's current figures 

As for Musk, who can believe a man who shoots his mouth off without knowing the facts?

Gaza received a countless number of condoms from USaid, he claimed. 

Nonsense, the condoms were to combat Aids in east Africa. 

Duh!

[simple1]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

Of course, can never give any credit even when necessary 

 

Personally I think an error rate of below 1%, if correct, given the number of transactions  is no so bad. Plus I find it challenging all down to Musk and co to identify within a few weeks somewhat unbelievable. I'm 100% sure if the Dems had released such a report MAGA world would explode with conspiracy stuff.

[frank83628]

45 minutes ago, bannork said:

52% popularity for Zelensky in the last poll in December. More than Trump's current figures 

As for Musk, who can believe a man who shoots his mouth off without knowing the facts?

Gaza received a countless number of condoms from USaid, he claimed. 

Nonsense, the condoms were to combat Aids in east Africa. 

Duh!

Trump just said zelensky was at 4%, pretty sure The Orange leader has better Intel than polls you read in a wopo opinion piece

[frank83628]

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 

Personally I think an error rate of below 1%, if correct, given the number of transactions  is no so bad. Plus I find it challenging all down to Musk and co to identify within a few weeks somewhat unbelievable. I'm 100% sure if the Dems had released such a report MAGA world would explode with conspiracy stuff.

Just to remind you, you are squabbling about USA social security, something that will in no way ever effect you as an Australian

[RSD1]

Elon Musk’s recent assertions that individuals aged 150 years or older are fraudulently receiving Social Security benefits have been widely scrutinized and debunked. These claims stem from outdated records within the Social Security Administration (SSA) database, which, due to historical data entry practices and legacy systems, list numerous individuals as over 100 years old without corresponding death records. However, extensive audits and investigations have consistently shown that the vast majority of these records do not correspond to active benefit recipients. The presence of these anomalies is primarily attributed to administrative oversights rather than widespread fraud. Experts emphasize that while maintaining accurate records is essential, the issue does not represent a significant financial threat to the Social Security system.

 

https://apnews.com/article/social-security-payments-deceased-false-claims-doge-ed2885f5769f368853ac3615b4852cf7
 

 

[RSD1]

Source: https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-doge-social-security-150-year-old-benefits/

 

No, 150-Year-Olds Aren’t Collecting Social Security Benefits | WIRED

 

By Andrew Williams

Feb 17, 2025 3:02 PM

 

Elon Musk has repeatedly claimed that his so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) project had uncovered massive government fraud when it alleged that 150-year-olds were claiming Social Security benefits.

 

But Musk has provided no evidence to back up his claims, and experts quickly pointed out that this is very likely just a quirk of the decades-old coding language that underpins the government payment systems.

 

Musk first made the claims during his Oval Office press conference last week, when he claimed that a “cursory examination of Social Security, and we got people in there that are 150 years old. Now, do you know anyone that's 150? I don't know. They should be in the Guinness Book of World Records … So that's a case where I think they're probably dead.”

While no evidence was produced to back up this claim, it was picked up by right-wing commentators online, primarily on Musk’s own X platform, as well as being reported credibly by pro-Trump media outlets.

 

Computer programmers quickly claimed that the 150 figure was not evidence of fraud but rather the result of a weird quirk of the Social Security Administration’s benefits system, which was largely written in COBOL, a 60-year-old programming language that undergirds SSA’s databases as well as systems from many other US government agencies.

 

COBOL is rarely used today, and as such, Musk’s cadre of young engineers may well be unfamiliar with it.

 

Because COBOL does not have a date type, some implementations rely instead on a system whereby all dates are coded to a reference point. The most commonly used is May 20, 1875, as this was the date of an international standards-setting conference held in Paris, known as the Convention du Mètre.

 

These systems default to the reference point when a birth date is missing or incomplete, meaning all of those entries in 2025 would show an age of 150.

 

That’s just one possible explanation for what DOGE allegedly found. Musk could also have simply looked up the SSA’s own website, which explains that since September 2015 the agency has automatically stopped benefit payments when anyone reaches the age of 115.

 

However, on Monday morning Musk doubled down, posting a screenshot of what he claims were figures from “the Social Security database” to X, writing that “the numbers of people in each age bucket with the death field set to FALSE!”

 

The figures suggested that over 10 millions people aged over 120 were collecting benefits.

 

“Maybe Twilight is real and there are a lot of vampires collecting Social Security,” Musk wrote.

 

The database Musk took the screenshot from listed almost 400 million people, which is more than five times the number of people receiving benefits in 2024, according to the SSA’s own website. It’s also significantly more than the entire US population.

 

The fact that the Social Security system contains millions of entries from people who are dead is likely distinct from a potential COBOL-caused error, and also not news. A report written by the SSA’s inspector general in 2023 found that 98 percent of those aged 100 or older in the Social Security databases are not in receipt of any benefits. The report added that the database would not be updated because it would cost too much money to do so.

[John Drake]

5 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Not exactly. It means that it is reasonable to have conditions on the payment such as no COLA adjustments if not resident in the USA.  I have made clear that  anyone who has paid in has the right to live where they choose and to receive the benefits that they have  paid for.  There is no denying that beneficiaries made contributions which have earned compound interest.  The issue is whether it is fair to the US taxpayers that the benefits be topped up  by the US taxpayers and that excess to be spent outside of the USA. 

The adjustment can be accomplished either by eliminating access to adjustments for inflation, as some countries do, or by introducing a small witholding adjustment.

 

  If a beneficiary has not contributed funds sufficient to cover the payout,  and taxpayers are  forced to make up the  shortfall, then the taxpayers should have the right to require that the amount they are covering be provided only if spent in the USA. How can you justify forcing  taxpayers to subsidize the lifestyle of some retiree in an exotic foreign locale? Let the retiree spend the money in balmy Alabama or sunny Arkansas where the cost of living is low if cost of living is that important.

 

Again, you want to reduce/cancel Social Security benefits and colas to people who spend their money outside the US. That would include any Social Security recipient who traveled outside for so much as a day and spent their money there. More, it would prohibit social security recipients in the US and who have never left it from purchasing merchandise directly from overseas--like ordering a book from an overseas book dealer. Social security is fungible. You cannot separate it from other income or other pensions. It's all in one big pot for each recipient. And what this loopy idea creates effectively is an Iron Curtain locking older Americans within US borders. Unless you're a millionaire. What's next? Special forms, declarations, and filings with SSA that list your daily spending habits and where the money goes? Crackpot idea.

[SiSePuede419]

In a February 17 court filing, the Trump administration clarified that Musk serves as a "senior adviser to the President" rather than the administrator of DOGE, indicating that he holds no formal authority to make government decisions. 

 

Musk doesn't run DOGE (which doesn't exist)...

 

Don't talk about how Trump announced DODGY wth Musk together last year.

 

Trump & Musk

Gaslighting America 101. 😄

 

In November 2024, President Donald Trump announced the creation of the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE), appointing Elon Musk and businessman Vivek Ramaswamy to lead this initiative

 

[frank83628]

10 minutes ago, RSD1 said:

Elon Musk’s recent assertions that individuals aged 150 years or older are fraudulently receiving Social Security benefits have been widely scrutinized and debunked. These claims stem from outdated records within the Social Security Administration (SSA) database, which, due to historical data entry practices and legacy systems, list numerous individuals as over 100 years old without corresponding death records. However, extensive audits and investigations have consistently shown that the vast majority of these records do not correspond to active benefit recipients. The presence of these anomalies is primarily attributed to administrative oversights rather than widespread fraud. Experts emphasize that while maintaining accurate records is essential, the issue does not represent a significant financial threat to the Social Security system.

 

https://apnews.com/article/social-security-payments-deceased-false-claims-doge-ed2885f5769f368853ac3615b4852cf7
 

 

So if they were known about why were they not dealt with and remove in that previous audit??

 

' Experts emphasize that while maintaining accurate records is essential, the issue does not represent a significant financial threat to the Social Security'

 

it doesn't matter because it doesn't efffect SS financially... so Musk was correct then... but gloss over it because it doesn't matter?

[candide]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

Trump just said zelensky was at 4%, pretty sure The Orange leader has better Intel than polls you read in a wopo opinion piece

Suuure! Russian intel! 🤣

[cdemundo]

5 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Poor people pay minimal tax and receive far more in benefits and services than they contribute. In effect they already get an almost free ride. The income tax burden is carried by a relatively small number of taxpayers. People complain about the wealthy, but the majority of them pay more than their fair share of income taxes.

 

 

I don't get it, are you envious of poor people in some perverse way?

Poor people get a free ride?

Very strange although not as rare as one would expect.

 

[candide]

Leavitt's own words! 🤣

 

“President Trump has directed Elon Musk and the DOGE team to identify fraud at the Social Security Administration. They haven’t dug into the books yet, but they suspect that there are tens of millions of deceased people receiving fraudulent Social Security payments,” Leavitt said during an appearance on Fox News Monday.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-press-secretary-hit-embarrassing-191941730.html

 

Actually, Musk did not discover anything, it was already in a 2023 IG report.  the 2023 IG report found that 98 percent of social security numberholders aged 100 years or older were not receiving benefits. Ultimately, the report determined that the system didn’t need to be updated because it was too expensive.  🙂

 

https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf

 

 

[Patong2021]

5 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Again, you want to reduce/cancel Social Security benefits and colas to people who spend their money outside the US. That would include any Social Security recipient who traveled outside for so much as a day and spent their money there. More, it would prohibit social security recipients in the US and who have never left it from purchasing merchandise directly from overseas--like ordering a book from an overseas book dealer. Social security is fungible. You cannot separate it from other income or other pensions. It's all in one big pot for each recipient. And what this loopy idea creates effectively is an Iron Curtain locking older Americans within US borders. Unless you're a millionaire. What's next? Special forms, declarations, and filings with SSA that list your daily spending habits and where the money goes? Crackpot idea.

 

I am suggesting that people who  are receiving benefits in excess of what their contributions are worth, should either not qualify for the excess benefits or should be taxed at a higher rate than if they were US residents.  I am not suggesting that anyone be denied access to the benefits that they have paid for. It is theirs to do with as they wish. Nor am I suggesting that people who winter in Thailand for 2-3  or even 4 months be penalized.

 

I suggest that you consider how such procedures are applied in other countries.  Some countries restrict supplemental old age benefits for non resident retirees through the tax treatment of social benefits income. As I understand the complaints of Australian retirees,  the old age pension is taxable income, Non Resident Australians  lose their qualification for the tax free threshold and are therefore subject to tax on the full payment.  Canada will not pay the supplemental Old Age Security guaranteed income to non residents. Some countries already freeze the benefits a person receives as soon as they become non residents.  There are easy ways to manage the issue.  The 180 day rule is used for other tax treatments.

 

Why do you believe that the taxpayers should support non residents who are not contributing to the economic well being of their nation? My suggestion of limitation applies only to the amounts in excess of what the beneficiaries  contributions are worth. To do otherwise is to exploit the US taxpayers.  There are many affordable places in the USA. It's just that some people would rather be in an exotic locale playing golf or drinking beer in front of the 7-11  rather than Backwash, MS. 

 

The issue of affordability  is moot. If the logic was followed through, these people could live on a pittance in the Congo or Bolivia, but the reality is that they choose to  live in a delightful exotic locale like Thailand.

[mogandave]

3 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

I am suggesting that people who  are receiving benefits in excess of what their contributions are worth, should either not qualify for the excess benefits or should be taxed at a higher rate than if they were US residents.  I am not suggesting that anyone be denied access to the benefits that they have paid for. It is theirs to do with as they wish. Nor am I suggesting that people who winter in Thailand for 2-3  or even 4 months be penalized.

 

I suggest that you consider how such procedures are applied in other countries.  Some countries restrict supplemental old age benefits for non resident retirees through the tax treatment of social benefits income. As I understand the complaints of Australian retirees,  the old age pension is taxable income, Non Resident Australians  lose their qualification for the tax free threshold and are therefore subject to tax on the full payment.  Canada will not pay the supplemental Old Age Security guaranteed income to non residents. Some countries already freeze the benefits a person receives as soon as they become non residents.  There are easy ways to manage the issue.  The 180 day rule is used for other tax treatments.

 

Why do you believe that the taxpayers should support non residents who are not contributing to the economic well being of their nation? My suggestion of limitation applies only to the amounts in excess of what the beneficiaries  contributions are worth. To do otherwise is to exploit the US taxpayers.  There are many affordable places in the USA. It's just that some people would rather be in an exotic locale playing golf or drinking beer in front of the 7-11  rather than Backwash, MS. 

 

The issue of affordability  is moot. If the logic was followed through, these people could live on a pittance in the Congo or Bolivia, but the reality is that they choose to  live in a delightful exotic locale like Thailand.

I am against Social Security, and think it should be phased out. 

 

That said, many of the people that paid into it depend on it, deserve to get what was agreed to, 

 

And if they are living in Thailand, and 65 or over, the Country saves a bundle on Medicare. 

 

Most people end up drawing much more that they put in.

[cdemundo]

13 hours ago, radiogeneris said:

In response to lame comments (propagated by leftist MSM propaganda ) that Elon Musk is unelected billionaire with access to social security.

 

Oh, he is in charge of US Government agency and appointed like any other government agency leader by president with proper security clearances. 

 

Are you saying that only elected officials have had access to this data prior to Elon Musk?

Aren’t all government officials in these departments and agencies unelected?

Isn’t your sudden solicitousness for our privacy a ruse to protect bureaucratic waste, fraud and abuse?

Beach please.

No one wants to "protect bureaucratic waste, fraud and abuse".

Saying that is the purest bovine waste.

People are concerned that their Social Security benefits will be messed with as Trump/Musk doesn't seem to understand or care about their concern.

[cdemundo]

6 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

 

I am suggesting that people who  are receiving benefits in excess of what their contributions are worth, should either not qualify for the excess benefits or should be taxed at a higher rate than if they were US residents.  I am not suggesting that anyone be denied access to the benefits that they have paid for. It is theirs to do with as they wish. Nor am I suggesting that people who winter in Thailand for 2-3  or even 4 months be penalized.

 

I suggest that you consider how such procedures are applied in other countries.  Some countries restrict supplemental old age benefits for non resident retirees through the tax treatment of social benefits income. As I understand the complaints of Australian retirees,  the old age pension is taxable income, Non Resident Australians  lose their qualification for the tax free threshold and are therefore subject to tax on the full payment.  Canada will not pay the supplemental Old Age Security guaranteed income to non residents. Some countries already freeze the benefits a person receives as soon as they become non residents.  There are easy ways to manage the issue.  The 180 day rule is used for other tax treatments.

 

Why do you believe that the taxpayers should support non residents who are not contributing to the economic well being of their nation? My suggestion of limitation applies only to the amounts in excess of what the beneficiaries  contributions are worth. To do otherwise is to exploit the US taxpayers.  There are many affordable places in the USA. It's just that some people would rather be in an exotic locale playing golf or drinking beer in front of the 7-11  rather than Backwash, MS. 

 

The issue of affordability  is moot. If the logic was followed through, these people could live on a pittance in the Congo or Bolivia, but the reality is that they choose to  live in a delightful exotic locale like Thailand.

Have you checked outside?

The possibility exists that youngsters, who pay nothing in taxes, are walking on your lawn.

Better get busy protecting your interests, say it loud, you're old and you're proud:

"Get off my lawn!!!"

[simple1]

13 hours ago, frank83628 said:

Just to remind you, you are squabbling about USA social security, something that will in no way ever effect you as an Australian

 

Just to remind you one's nationality does not preclude anyone from postings in any topic

[Harrisfan]

41 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 

Just to remind you one's nationality does not preclude anyone from postings in any topic

But at 2am?