On 3/7/2025 at 11:39 AM, wadman said:

 

The root of the problem is that the Uyghurs want their independence, and take XianJiang province away with them in doing so.  They have resorted to bombings and other acts of violence. The latest rounds of that was before covid, when the Uyghurs went on a rampage in XianJiang, and indiscriminately killed around 200 Han Chinese in the streets. That's what set off the latest round of violence and crackdown by China.

 

Naturally China isn't so keen on losing territory. They don't give a hoot if all the Uyghurs emigrate away permanently, in fact they welcome it, it just means fewer trouble makers. The Uyghurs that aren't allowed to leave China are the ones who have committed violent crimes (or suspected of doing so). You can't set off a bomb, and then skip the country to avoid prosecution, is that so difficult to understand?

 

This narrative that western MSM (and you) is pushing that China is persecuting Uyghurs just for being Uyghurs doesn't even pass the smell test.  What exactly is the logic in that? China is persecuting Uyghurs from being different? There are lots of minorities in China, those who don't seek to carve out a chunk of the country have nothing to fear. In fact they have more rights than the Han Chinese.

You've already claimed these specific Uighurs were criminals and terrorists, and offered no proof of such, and now are claiming simply that any Uighur is a dangerous separatist, any without proof or logic.  And by your claim if these Uighurs HAD committed crimes/acts of terror "they aren't allowed to leave the country."  Ergo, these specific Uighurs did not commit crimes.  But we knew that already, didn't we?

 

Here's the irony -- you're claiming "Uighurs aren't being persecuted for being Uighurs" and yet what you're saying EXACTLY THAT -- that because they are Uighurs, these people are guilty of separatism, crime and violence.  So, I'm not "pushing a western MSM narrative".  I'm saying other things, though -- that Thailand has a responsibility to investigate the claims of these people of persecution -- of which there IS evidence generally speaking.  Thailand didn't.  They sent them back at the CCP's demand, because they are an embarrassment to the CCP, who pushes the narrative that somehow they are simultaneously terrorists and privileged beyond Han Chinese.  And you somehow not only believe it, you're willing to shill for it to others.

 

Strange that people who have more rights than the dominant Han would rather live in IDC than China.  All just part of the conspiracy against poor, misunderstood China, right?

10 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

You've already claimed these specific Uighurs were criminals and terrorists, and offered no proof of such, and now are claiming simply that any Uighur is a dangerous separatist, any without proof or logic. 

 

There is lots of evidence that Uyghurs want their own homeland (East Turkestan) i.e. separate, the Uyghurs themselves don't deny it either.

 

  

10 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Here's the irony -- you're claiming "Uighurs aren't being persecuted for being Uighurs" and yet what you're saying EXACTLY THAT -- that because they are Uighurs, these people are guilty of separatism, crime and violence. 

 

The Uyghurs as a whole generally do want to separate.  Not all resort to violence, but some do.  Not all illegally cross the border into Thailand to evade prosecution, but some do.

 

  

10 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

I'm saying other things, though -- that Thailand has a responsibility to investigate the claims of these people of persecution -- of which there IS evidence generally speaking.  Thailand didn't. 

 

Some of these Uyghurs recently sent back by Thailand had been in detention (for illegal immigration) for 10 (!) years!   Whatever investigation could be done, whatever arguments those Uyghurs could bring forth, surely had been done by then.

 

 

  

10 hours ago, ChicagoExpat said:

They sent them back at the CCP's demand, because they are an embarrassment to the CCP, who pushes the narrative that somehow they are simultaneously terrorists and privileged beyond Han Chinese.  And you somehow not only believe it, you're willing to shill for it to others.

 

Strange that people who have more rights than the dominant Han would rather live in IDC than China.  All just part of the conspiracy against poor, misunderstood China, right?

 

Uyghurs (and other minorities) had certain exemptions under the 1 child policy (which is moot now).  Minorities also enjoy preferential treatment for enrolment into universities, which is quite an advantage as getting into a university in China isn't nearly as easy as in the west.

 

Uyghurs want their own homeland for reasons including:

- it's what reasonable large groups of people want, in an area where they are the dominant group

- Linguistically and Culturally, they feel discriminated against by the Han Chinese.  Well, they are different.  But for such a small group (percentage-wise), don't expect the rest of the country to adjust to your language, food, customs.

 

@ChicagoExpat So, let me ask you then.  What, in your opinion, is the root of the issue between the Chinese government and the Uyghurs?

 

 

9 hours ago, wadman said:

 

There is lots of evidence that Uyghurs want their own homeland (East Turkestan) i.e. separate, the Uyghurs themselves don't deny it either.

 

  

 

The Uyghurs as a whole generally do want to separate.  Not all resort to violence, but some do.  Not all illegally cross the border into Thailand to evade prosecution, but some do.

 

  

 

Some of these Uyghurs recently sent back by Thailand had been in detention (for illegal immigration) for 10 (!) years!   Whatever investigation could be done, whatever arguments those Uyghurs could bring forth, surely had been done by then.

 

 

  

 

Uyghurs (and other minorities) had certain exemptions under the 1 child policy (which is moot now).  Minorities also enjoy preferential treatment for enrolment into universities, which is quite an advantage as getting into a university in China isn't nearly as easy as in the west.

 

Uyghurs want their own homeland for reasons including:

- it's what reasonable large groups of people want, in an area where they are the dominant group

- Linguistically and Culturally, they feel discriminated against by the Han Chinese.  Well, they are different.  But for such a small group (percentage-wise), don't expect the rest of the country to adjust to your language, food, customs.

 

@ChicagoExpat So, let me ask you then.  What, in your opinion, is the root of the issue between the Chinese government and the Uyghurs?

 

 

I have no dispute with most of what you wrote.  It's just that none of it translates into supporting the claims you made or that these particular Uighurs should have been deported.

 

Recalling the first time I met a Uighur (1992, I believe, when I was living in Los Angeles), she told me that like any persons of religious conviction in China at the time, Uighurs had been severely persecuted for decades under China's official policy of atheism (as were Christians and others).  Certainly that didn't help.  But to limit ourselves to the discussion at hand, I'd think the main reason China demanded these and previous groups of Uighurs back were (as I mentioned before) they are an embarrassment to the CCP.  I won't pretend to speak authoritatively on what may be centuries of grievances that may have nationalist, religious, economic, etc bases.

On 3/6/2025 at 8:08 AM, NorthernRyland said:

Learn from Thailand on this one

Then why did Thailand want to become a member of the UN Human Rights Commission whose mission is to ensure that all human rights are respected and upheld, focusing on both civil and political rights, as well as economic, social, and cultural rights?

What the UNHRC learned is that Thailand's membership goal was not authentic. That Thailand's position on human rights is compromised by Thailand's political security with China.