1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

***Absolutely opinion only.  May be full of poop.***

 

  Poop accumulated prior to 2024 is also tax free.

3 minutes ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Poop accumulated prior to 2024 is also tax free.

 

Yes, FROM 2024 going forward.

 

The another poster wants to file LATE returns.

 

In that case, the pre-2024 ruling would not apply.

Money in savings accounts pre-2024 can be remitted to Thailand tax free any time going forward.

Some people think that also applies to balances in pensions and investment accounts but they're wrong.

49 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some people think that also applies to balances in pensions and investment accounts but they're wrong. [my emphasis]

This is starting to get monotonous. You keep genuflecting to tax advisory firms -- particularly Expattaxthai -- who have often stumbled on reading the TRD tea leaves. Expattaxthai, in their FAQ section, advised that LTR visa holders must still file a tax return, completely filling it in with zeros. Completely bonkers. Fortunately, I can sniff out folks who don't have a full grasp of the situation, or who don't admit there's nothing solid enough yet coming from TRD to allow a full grasp. And act accordingly.  So, from this statement re Por 162, how does your INDEPENDENT reasoning conclude only pre 2024 monies from "savings accounts" (your quote) apply under Por 162?

 

Quote

Order No. Por.162/2566, issued on November 20, 2023, provides further clarification. It states that the new interpretation should not apply to foreign-sourced income earned before January 1, 2024. This means that income derived prior to this date will be subject to the previous rule: it will only be taxed if brought into Thailand within the same tax year it was earned. This order aims to ease the transition for taxpayers planning the remittance of previously earned foreign income.

 

Come on, Jingthing. Think for yourself for a change. Your certainty on uncertain matters is losing you any credibility you might of had.

On 3/13/2025 at 7:31 AM, OJAS said:

It is conceivable that the necessary proof might take the form of a tax clearance certificate. If so, applying for and obtaining one would clearly mean yet more bureaucratic hoops needing to be jumped through at annual extension of stay time if this link is to be believed!

 

https://magnacarta.co.th/home/faq-section-2/thailand-tax-clearance-certificate/

 

That webpage existed long before the recent tax hoo-ha and has no business being referred to regarding most expats tax affairs.

On 3/12/2025 at 1:39 PM, Bubbha said:

After you have a TIN,  you can file online by yourself.

The Revenue Department has an end-user friendly online site to file.

A Chrome Browser is able to translate the entire process into English.

Determine, to the best of your ability, your assessable income for 2024.

If necessary, find help to do this in the private sector (not the Revenue Department).

You don't need to pay anyone to file once you're determined your assessable income.

Enter your information into the Revenue Department's online site and file. Pay by QR code if you owe taxes. 

Finished. You're a tax resident here (>180 days) and have successfully filed.

If the Revenue Department has questions, they will ask.

Keep good notes and records for this possibility - just like your home country taxes.

I would not expect, or want, the Revenue Department front line staff to advise about evaluating my finances for assessable income.

Or assistance with filing....

I think most would not have that expectation of their home country Revenue Department equivalents. 

 

Search for Revenue Department's online e-file site (efiling.rd.go.th). Right click on Google Chrome and select translate to English

 

For those without a TIN, you can go to the Revenue Department and apply for a TIN.

Just that one task. Nothing else....

You’re not there for their assistance to file your taxes.

You already have someone to do that.

 

 

 

Why would you need anybody to file your taxes when the office will do everything for you for free

On 3/17/2025 at 1:37 PM, arick said:

Why would you need anybody to file your taxes when the office will do everything for you for free

Why would you want Revene Department staff do this for you?

 

Because it's free?!? 

 

Just showing up at a Revene office opens up the possibility of all sorts of unanticipated questions & directives. 

Front line staff are not exactly well trained on analyzing assessable income, interpreting tax treaties,  and so on...

 

No thanks....

36 minutes ago, Bubbha said:

Why would you want Revene Department staff do this for you?

 

Because it's free?!? 

 

Just showing up at a Revene office opens up the possibility of all sorts of unanticipated questions & directives. 

Front line staff are not exactly well trained on analyzing assessable income, interpreting tax treaties,  and so on...

 

No thanks....

Agree. That's exactly why I filed online.

I went to the local tax office in my amphur and told them I wanted to do my income tax and they had no idea why I would want to do that since I don't work here. I told her that in 2024 I transferred 140,000 baht from the USA to my bank account in Thailand. I told her that about 90000 baht of that was social security and because of the tax agreement with Thailand it is exempt. I told her the rest of the money was earned prior to 2024 and had already been taxed in the USA. She repeated that there was no need to file. She obviously didn't have a clue about who needs to file and what all the possible exemptions are.

16 minutes ago, khaepmu said:

I went to the local tax office in my amphur and told them I wanted to do my income tax and they had no idea why I would want to do that since I don't work here. I told her that in 2024 I transferred 140,000 baht from the USA to my bank account in Thailand. I told her that about 90000 baht of that was social security and because of the tax agreement with Thailand it is exempt. I told her the rest of the money was earned prior to 2024 and had already been taxed in the USA. She repeated that there was no need to file. She obviously didn't have a clue about who needs to file and what all the possible exemptions are.

Well in your case no need to get a TIN or file regardless of what that employee knew or didn’t know.

So, do I understand it correctly that:

 

- if you did not transfer any money into Thailand in 2024, you do not have to file a tax return (just in order to comply with "the deadline" at the end of this month or early April if done online)

 

- if you transferred money to TH in 2024, but this was not assessable/taxable income earned in 2024, you still do not have to file.

 

In the latter case, if you do not file a tax return and the tax office at some point in the future asks you to prove what the money you transferred in 2024 was, asking for proof of when it was earned, inherited or whatever, is this "Please show us" approach by the RD the "worst case" that could happen if we do not file right now? 

 

29 minutes ago, DUS said:

So, do I understand it correctly that:

 

- if you did not transfer any money into Thailand in 2024, you do not have to file a tax return (just in order to comply with "the deadline" at the end of this month or early April if done online)

 

- if you transferred money to TH in 2024, but this was not assessable/taxable income earned in 2024, you still do not have to file.

 

In the latter case, if you do not file a tax return and the tax office at some point in the future asks you to prove what the money you transferred in 2024 was, asking for proof of when it was earned, inherited or whatever, is this "Please show us" approach by the RD the "worst case" that could happen if we do not file right now? 

 

Well failing to convince TRD in an audit would be worse case.

I am moving to Thailand this year lock stock and barrel do I need to pay tax on the money I have for the purchase of a House in my son's name he is a Thai citizen. second do I pay tax on my UK pension? Cheers for any advice

3 hours ago, Merrill said:

I am moving to Thailand this year lock stock and barrel do I need to pay tax on the money I have for the purchase of a House in my son's name he is a Thai citizen. second do I pay tax on my UK pension? Cheers for any advice

 

Here is some advice for you.....Go ahead and do what ever you want.....

 

And remember......Loose lips sink ships.......

 

In other words dont volunteer any info EVER.....And avoid any tax office like the plague......

 

Every ones financials are individual including yours....But this should move things in the right direction...

 

 

5 hours ago, DUS said:

In the latter case, if you do not file a tax return and the tax office at some point in the future asks you to prove what the money you transferred in 2024 was, asking for proof of when it was earned, inherited or whatever, is this "Please show us" approach by the RD the "worst case" that could happen if we do not file right now? 

My personal opinion is that tax clearance and immigration/visa renewal status will link at some point in the future. 

 

They are linked by current law at Immigration departure points if over 180 days in Thailand. They stopped enforcing this in the early 90s. 

6 minutes ago, Bubbha said:

My personal opinion is that tax clearance and immigration/visa renewal status will link at some point in the future. 

 

They are linked by current law at Immigration departure points if over 180 days in Thailand. They stopped enforcing this in the early 90s. 

 

Yes, this is what might happen in the future. I agree. 

As an additional "data point": I just chatted with a friend of mine and we briefly touched on the topic of the looming deadline. Much to my surprise he said that he went to his local TRD office last week, asking how to file a tax return. When they learnt that he hadn´t brought in any money over the course of 2024, they told him "not to worry" and that he cannot/doesn´t need to file a tax return. As the money he is going to bring into the country in the future is from money he inherited a few years ago, they also told him that he won't need to file anything in the years ahead unless the source of the transferred money changes from inheritance to taxable income sources. 

Well, if and when there is a status link between TRD and Immigration in the future then this practice certainly would have to change. 

I guess we will find out in the years ahead......

29 minutes ago, DUS said:

 

Yes, this is what might happen in the future. I agree. 

As an additional "data point": I just chatted with a friend of mine and we briefly touched on the topic of the looming deadline. Much to my surprise he said that he went to his local TRD office last week, asking how to file a tax return. When they learnt that he hadn´t brought in any money over the course of 2024, they told him "not to worry" and that he cannot/doesn´t need to file a tax return. As the money he is going to bring into the country in the future is from money he inherited a few years ago, they also told him that he won't need to file anything in the years ahead unless the source of the transferred money changes from inheritance to taxable income sources. 

Well, if and when there is a status link between TRD and Immigration in the future then this practice certainly would have to change. 

I guess we will find out in the years ahead......

Yeah not so unusual not to have accessable income that requires filing.

I don't for last year and won't for this year either.

Americans only bringing in Social Security will NEVER need to file. 

IF immigration starts requiring tax filings for extensions, there's going to need to be a way for the many people that simply aren't required to file to clear that hurdle. 

18 minutes ago, DUS said:

Well, if and when there is a status link between TRD and Immigration in the future then this practice certainly would have to change. 

 

Last time I transferred money to Thailand was 2015, and unless I want to invest in Thailand in the future (which I very much doubt) I will not have to transfer any funds in the foreseeable future.

So by law I am not required to file a return ever. How they gonna link my extension to a return?

Hey I thought it was KhunHeinekens job to bring up the possible future link between taxes and visas......He never stopped bringing this up countless times no matter how many people told him shut up repeatedly.....but like a broken record he never stopped......Page after page after page...

 

For all you who have a unhealthy fascination with the subject.....Let me remind you Thailands expats come from many dozens of countries besides Caucasian expats of European origin...

 

And no way ever will they get all the expats onboard with the tax thing....Not ever and I mean absolutely NEVER.....So you can just forget about the tax visa fantasy....

51 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

For all you who have a unhealthy fascination with the subject.....Let me remind you Thailands expats come from many dozens of countries besides Caucasian expats of European origin...

I don't see how this is relevant. 

 

It seems some are paying attention to the direction of the Thai government in regard to tax reform, while others prefer not to know or attempt to understand.....

8 hours ago, khaepmu said:

I told her that about 90000 baht of that was social security and because of the tax agreement with Thailand it is exempt. I told her the rest of the money was earned prior to 2024 and had already been taxed in the USA. She repeated that there was no need to file. She obviously didn't have a clue about who needs to file and what all the possible exemptions are.

 

What are you complaining about?

 

You remitted non-assessable funds.  You don't need to file.

 

The TRD lady told you..................you don't need to file.

7 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

You remitted non-assessable funds.  You don't need to file.

 

The TRD lady told you..................you don't need to file.

 

 

I'm half-expecting to read about some crazy farang taking hostages at their local RD office, demanding that they be allowed to pay their imaginary taxes.

16 hours ago, Merrill said:

I am moving to Thailand this year lock stock and barrel do I need to pay tax on the money I have for the purchase of a House in my son's name he is a Thai citizen. second do I pay tax on my UK pension? Cheers for any advice

If money transferred was in savings for income or pension earned before Jan 1 2024, then it is not assessable income and no tax filing is required.  Another thing you may want to consider is, if your son is of age and has a bank account of his own, you could transfer the money as a "gift" - the threshold is quite high -  Gifts to Parents or Children: Gifts valued under THB 20 million per tax year to parents or children are generally exempt from tax. Source: https://www.expattaxthailand.com/gift-tax-2024/

20 hours ago, Merrill said:

I am moving to Thailand this year lock stock and barrel do I need to pay tax on the money I have for the purchase of a House in my son's name he is a Thai citizen. second do I pay tax on my UK pension? Cheers for any advice

I'm in a similar situation and this is probably the most helpful article I've come across...

 

https://www.thethailandlife.com/expat-tax-thailand#Income_Earned_Prior_to_Living_Retiring_in_Thailand

 

On 3/14/2025 at 8:32 PM, JimGant said:

This is an on-going argument -- especially by jingling. Yes, prior to Por 162 -- which exempts all pre 2024 income -- private pension remittances were taxable by Thailand. But Por 162 exempted pre 2024 income, which both traditional and Roth IRAs consist of. Thus, Por 162 'trumps' the DTA language that, otherwise, would make IRA remittances to Thailand taxable. And Por 162 just says "pre 2024 income." It doesn't say that income can only be in a bank account -- which grifters like Expat Tax Thailand expound on.

 

Anyway, I'd certainly be confident in excluding my IRA remittances from assessable income -- you really do have Por 162 at your back. And, as such, why wouldn't you give yourself the benefit of the doubt -- which, in the 1% chance you're ever audited, would certainly exclude you from any tax evasion charge, or criminal charges. No brainer.

 

actually, all that I have heard from many webinars of tax authorities and agents, is that DTA's trump local tax law.  I am not an expert so do not really know only that is what I heard many times.  I am not affected by Thai income taxes whatsoever but just passing on what I heard so it is not any advice or anything like that but should be easy enough to check.

23 minutes ago, Presnock said:

actually, all that I have heard from many webinars of tax authorities and agents, is that DTA's trump local tax law.

Wrong. Domestic law changes to a DTA are called "overrides." The most famous is the US saving clause found in every DTA with the US, that says: We, the US, don't care what this treaty says about our treaty partner having exclusive taxation rights. We, the US, reserve the right (with a few named exclusions) to also tax this income. But, yes, treaty partner will have primary taxation rights, per DTA, and thus get to keep all taxes collected, without having to absorb a tax credit for the taxes paid to the US.

 

Overrides (as the following link explains) are frowned upon -- but if they don't violate the DTA spirit, namely, the avoidance of double taxation -- then they're acceptable. 

https://repository.law.umich.edu/book_chapters/330/

 

And, in the case of the US saving clause, what's going on here is the avoidance of "no no taxation." Example: treaty country has exclusive taxation rights, but doesn't avail itself of those rights (eg, Thailand -- old policy of bring it in next year thus no taxation). Thus, we the US, will step up and make sure someone collects taxes. And this is the name of the future in DTAs. Check out this link:

 

Quote

Thailand will include or modify the preamble of its covered tax agreements to state that their purpose is to eliminate double taxation without creating opportunities for non-taxation or reduced taxation through tax evasion or avoidance.

https://www.pwc.com/th/en/pwc-tax-newsletters/2022/eng/2022-tax-newsletter-01.pdf

 

Sounds like the move to eliminate the "bring it in next year and it will be exempt" was a result of this referenced MLI agreement by Thailand. Hmmm.

48 minutes ago, Presnock said:

actually, all that I have heard from many webinars of tax authorities and agents, is that DTA's trump local tax law

See previous post -- to not be blinded by all these webinars of tax authorities -- who, with a little research, come across as clueless.

On 3/18/2025 at 2:47 PM, khaepmu said:

I went to the local tax office in my amphur and told them I wanted to do my income tax and they had no idea why I would want to do that since I don't work here. I told her that in 2024 I transferred 140,000 baht from the USA to my bank account in Thailand. I told her that about 90000 baht of that was social security and because of the tax agreement with Thailand it is exempt. I told her the rest of the money was earned prior to 2024 and had already been taxed in the USA. She repeated that there was no need to file. She obviously didn't have a clue about who needs to file and what all the possible exemptions are.

you obviously don't have a clue  either, you had no asessable income so there would have been no need to even file.  

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Wrong. Domestic law changes to a DTA are called "overrides." The most famous is the US saving clause found in every DTA with the US, that says: We, the US, don't care what this treaty says about our treaty partner having exclusive taxation rights.

 

Uh, Jim........that isn't "domestic" law overriding a DTA.

 

That's the US sticking that savings clause provision into the DTA's themselves when they negotiated each and every DTA.

 

Nothing about the DTA in that case being overridden by domestic law, since the provision already exists.

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

That's the US sticking that savings clause provision into the DTA's themselves when they negotiated each and every DTA.

Fair point. Override up front. But, same result as override after the fact. What we're discussing here is, Por 162, as an override, passes the test, since it in no way alters the spirit of the DTA, namely, avoiding double taxation.