Many people criticize Trump. But just look at what he does! He actually organized a halt to military operations to allow NATO troops to enter Ukraine. And the whole world calls it a step towards peace! Isn't it brilliant?

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think we need to wait to see the terms. Appeasement of the Russian aggressor will be intolerable to most - and, sadly, the only person who has the power to make Russia pay is the one who seems to be on Russia's books. 

 

Zelensky will be kicked out and Putin and Trump will parade around like two little Napoleans as if they have jointly overcome something terrible. Let's hope that the decent countries of the world will continue to punish Russia relentlessly until Putin is in chains in the Hague. 

 

This is NOT appeasement. Appeasement is a policy to make territorial concessions to avoid conflict. Here the conflict has already happened.  This is just peace making.

 

It is not a question of "making Russia pay", it is a question of Ukraine avoiding total destruction and stopping the killing of women and children. Pointless killing because Ukraine can never win this war.

 

What is tolerable to Ukraine zealots is really neither her nor there.

 

Zelensky's position will become untenable, because he will not have delivered anything but loss of territory and loss on the battlefield. That is why he had every incentive to be obstructive, for his own vanity and pride. If he does the right thing and make peace he will go down as a loser. Thankfully looks like he's okay with it.

 

Russia cannot fight this war forever, due to economic reasons. Ukraine cannot fight this war forever for manpower, ammunitions and economic reasons. Peace will now come.

 

Glory to Donald Trump, the man who made peace in Ukraine possible.

24 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Oh don't worry, Putin will show up. He wants peace more than Zelensky.

 

Trump did it. There will be peace in Ukraine.

 

And it is all down to one man, that made it happen: Donald Trump.

 

Thank you Mr Trump. Thank you for making the world a safer place. Thank you for avoiding WWIII. Thank you for saving the lives of women and children and men.

How is the world a safer place when Trump has demonstrated his support of a tyrant invading a sovereign nation?

 

 

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

This is NOT appeasement. Appeasement is a policy to make territorial concessions to avoid conflict. Here the conflict has already happened.  This is just peace making.

 

It is not a question of "making Russia pay", it is a question of Ukraine avoiding total destruction and stopping the killing of women and children. Pointless killing because Ukraine can never win this war.

 

What is tolerable to Ukraine zealots is really neither her nor there.

 

Zelensky's position will become untenable, because he will not have delivered anything but loss of territory and loss on the battlefield. That is why he had every incentive to be obstructive, for his own vanity and pride. If he does the right thing and make peace he will go down as a loser. Thankfully looks like he's okay with it.

 

Russia cannot fight this war forever, due to economic reasons. Ukraine cannot fight this war forever for manpower, ammunitions and economic reasons. Peace will now come.

 

Glory to Donald Trump, the man who made peace in Ukraine possible.

Doing Putin’s bidding is appeasement.

 

And Trump has been doing a lot of Putin’s bidding.

 

 

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Trump won’t sanction putin that’s just noise trump wants to force Ukraine to surrender without guarantees or any territory returned then after trump delivers a victory to the enemy he will lift sanctions off putin

 

Got a link to that poop?

17 minutes ago, transam said:

Don't tell me what to do, guesser, you stick to your usual stuff, there's a good chappy........😉

Another cretinous comment

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How is the world a safer place when Trump has demonstrated his support of a tyrant invading a sovereign nation?

 

 

 

Did you see how Ukraine was treating the Russian speaking Ukrainians? How many did they kill?

 

Did you see the swastikas on the Ukrainian uniform and tanks?

16 minutes ago, transam said:

Blimey, you actually know something, though I was sure you would know about the murdering invader dictator..........🤗

Your comments are rather limited in vocabulary 

6 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

It is not a question of "making Russia pay", it is a question of Ukraine avoiding total destruction and stopping the killing of women and children. Pointless killing because Ukraine can never win this war.

So a question of stopping Russia from killing more women and children.

 

Do you agree with me that Russia should be made to pay for the outrages it has committed to date, and that Putin should face the ultimate sanction

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Briliant strategic move by Zelensky. He got plenty from this ceasefire plan. He is now seen as a peacemaker and if Putin reject, he will be viewed as a war-monger. Zelensky got back the restoration of military aid and intelligence sharing and access to satelite imagery. Now the ball at Putin's feet. His spokesman declined any comment on Russia's stance on the proposed partial ceasefire. Now a good PR image for Russia. 

 

Er...you mean Putin is not viewed as a warmonger already? Wow.

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

So a question of stopping Russia from killing more women and children.

 

Do you agree with me that Russia should be made to pay for the outrages it has committed to date, and that Putin should face the ultimate sanction

 

The crimes the Russians committed against Ukrainian civilians are crimes, to be sure. For these those who comitted them, should indeed be punished. However, the Allied bombers in WWII, Americans and British, who purposefully targeted and burned alive women and children, were not held accountable and sadly here too those Russian animals who killed civilians may escape punishment.

 

Yes, those who committed those outrages should be punished, but I doubt it will happen, sadly. And frankly sanctions against Russia have no effect anymore. Besides Putin is sure to make lifting of sanctions a condition for peace.

5 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Did you see how Ukraine was treating the Russian speaking Ukrainians? How many did they kill?

 

Did you see the swastikas on the Ukrainian uniform and tanks?

Did you see how the Russians killed Ukrainian civilians just for land grab...?  🤔

3 minutes ago, FruitPudding said:

 

Did you see how Ukraine was treating the Russian speaking Ukrainians? How many did they kill?

 

Did you see the swastikas on the Ukrainian uniform and tanks?

 

A totally specious lie at best - as is evident to anyone who actually spent time in Russia, Putin couldn't care less about Russians within his own territory; it is utterly ridiculous to suggest he would care about them abroad. 

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

The crimes the Russians committed against Ukrainian civilians are crimes, to be sure. For these those who comitted them, should indeed be punished. However, the Allied bombers in WWII, Americans and British, who purposefully targeted and burned alive women and children, were not held accountable and sadly here too those Russian animals who killed civilians may escape punishment.

 

Yes, those who committed those outrages should be punished, but I doubt it will happen, sadly. And frankly sanctions against Russia have no effect anymore. Besides Putin is sure to make lifting of sanctions a condition for peace.

So the Germans didn't do that first.......?.........🤣

They didn't send unmanned rockets across the channel either...........🤣

 

Please try harder.......🤕

 

Putin instigated this was - he, Lavrov, the drunken lout that is Medvedev, and all their various corrupt cronies must all face the ICC.

As for the scum who are committing atrocities on the ground, the next Ukrainian government needs to formally adopt the measure instigated by Israel as it hunted down the Nazis after WW2. These people will hopefully not have a moment's peace of mind until they are permanently removed from society. 

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

 

you've got an answer for everything ....    haven't you just    !

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

My God, he did it. Trump is going to make peace in Ukraine. They said he wouldn't be able to do it. And look at him. He did it!

 

Russia will make peace, because they also know they cannot fight this war forever. And they already got most of what they wanted anyway.

 

I hope you're right but remember that this is just one side agreeing to a proposal for a ceasefire, which, if agreed to by Russia, may lead to further talks on actual peace. Bringing a permanent end to the war will be far more difficult, I'm sure.

 

That said, this proposal should be appreciated as a welcome effort to promote a stop to the war. I can see from other posts here that there is little positivity and that's a shame.

1 hour ago, transam said:

No, Trump is trying to send a sovereign nation down the river......😬

For the last 3 years, the West has been trying to save them from YOUR invader dictator...

See what I mean?

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

See what I mean?

 

How would a fair and just peace look like to you? What has been floated so far is that there is a ceasefire and further Ukrainian land ceded to Russia; Ukraine withdraws from the Russian territory it currently holds; Zelenski steps aside (and goes into exile?) and new elections called.

 

I have seen no more than that so I would assume that, as none of the power mongers are discussing Russian reparations or Putin or any of his regime facing repercussions, he and they will continue as they are. 

 

Will you call that a just outcome?

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I hope you're right but remember that this is just one side agreeing to a proposal for a ceasefire, which, if agreed to by Russia, may lead to further talks on actual peace. Bringing a permanent end to the war will be far more difficult, I'm sure.

 

That said, this proposal should be appreciated as a welcome effort to promote a stop to the war. I can see from other posts here that there is little positivity and that's a shame.

 

I quite agree, but as Mao said, a journey of a thousand steps begins with one step. And this was by far the hardest step.  As regards peace negotiations, the Russians want peace and they cannot fight this war forever due to economic reasons. They will seek peace. Ukraine needs peace, and hopefully will not negotiate in bad faith.

 

But there is a good precedent the Kiev 1 and 2 agreements which failed can be taken as a basis, leaders have experience in negotiating peace deals about Ukraine. This would be useful.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

An eye for an eye make whole world go blind.

 

The killings of Ukrainian civilians are documented and can be investigated. However, since Russia is not occupied and certainly will not be, again, I think the truth of who is responsible for certain atrocities may not become known.

 

 

Your mealy mouthed refusal to accept that Russia is the culprit in this speaks volumes. It could have been avoided 3 years ago if Putin respected the sovereign right of another country to follow its own path. 

 

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

You could argue Putin has a measure of political responsibility for starting the war, and that would be correct, however, starting a war is not a crime in and of itself.

 

That is utterly pathetic and surely shameful to anyone with an ounce of morality. 

40 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think we need to wait to see the terms. Appeasement of the Russian aggressor will be intolerable to most - and, sadly, the only person who has the power to make Russia pay is the one who seems to be on Russia's books. 

 

Zelensky will be kicked out and Putin and Trump will parade around like two little Napoleans as if they have jointly overcome something terrible. Let's hope that the decent countries of the world will continue to punish Russia relentlessly until Putin is in chains in the Hague. 

 

First you say we need to wait ... then.....pfft! 

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

As for the scum who are committing atrocities on the ground, the next Ukrainian government needs to formally adopt the measure instigated by Israel as it hunted down the Nazis after WW2.

Maybe Ukraine needs to come to terms with its own atrocities.

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

That is utterly pathetic and surely shameful to anyone with an ounce of morality. 

Morality has never counted in national/ideological politics.

36 minutes ago, zmisha said:

Many people criticize Trump. But just look at what he does! He actually organized a halt to military operations to allow NATO troops to enter Ukraine. And the whole world calls it a step towards peace! Isn't it brilliant?

 

OK we really need compulsory link enforcement for that one.

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Your mealy mouthed refusal to accept that Russia is the culprit in this speaks volumes. It could have been avoided 3 years ago if Putin respected the sovereign right of another country to follow its own path. 

 

 

That is utterly pathetic and surely shameful to anyone with an ounce of morality. 

 

Indeed it could have been avoided and Ukraine and Russia were far down the road of negotiating a peaceful settlement when Boris Johnson flew in and threatened Zelensky with total lack of US and UK support if Ukraine signed the agreement, instead urging Zelensky "let's just fight".

 

Starting a war is not a crime. The US did it against Panama, Iraq, it's just not. War is a legitimate tool of policy. War crimes are war crimes.

2 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Maybe Ukraine needs to come to terms with its own atrocities.

 

This is a good point, the Ukrainians too have committed killings of civilians and atrocities in this war.  

 

 

2 hours ago, Tug said:

Trump won’t sanction putin that’s just noise trump wants to force Ukraine to surrender without guarantees or any territory returned then after trump delivers a victory to the enemy he will lift sanctions off putin

Trump sanctioned Russia in his first term, Biden came into office and lifted the sanctions. 

 

Trump initiated arms shipments to Ukraine, including Javelin missiles, Biden came into office and stopped the shipments. 

 

But but but orange man bad. 

I am absolutely certain that Russia will sign a security agreement with Ukraine. The proof?

 

Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum, on December 5, 1994, providing a multilateral agreement affirming Ukraine's security and sovereignty in exchange for giving up Ukraine's nuclear stocks. What more do you need?

14 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

I can spell perfectly well....

Cretinous clown... see

Oh look, more foot stomping from Putin's western puppet.........