France Blocks UK from €150bn EU Defence Fund Amid Growing Tensions

[Bannoi]

I suspect the UK will rejoin the EU maybe not in my lifetime but as time goes on it will become more and more advantageous and then they will be forced to adopt the Euro.

 

So far Brexit seems to have mainly had negative consequences with very few if any positives.

 

A lot of people were conned by Farage and Johnson bears a striking resemblance to Trump.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, FritsSikkink said:

It is a question: Question mark - Wikipedia

Ok let me make it a little clearer after that wiki deflection. What makes you think I ever thought the UK ruled the waves?

[candide]

12 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So you are disputing what the EU Ambassador to the UK Pedro Serrano said? "that is not the case"

 

There is not years available by the way. Orders need to be signed now with contractors no matter how long it takes to fulfill them.

I say we won't know exactly before it is voted by member States (or at least voting intents are expressed).

 

On top of it, it's more complex than what is written in the OP, I.e UK may only have a limited access, or it may be required to contribute to the fund.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/uk-hopes-of-quick-eu-defense-deal-fade-on-weapons-fund-access-11742586446242.html

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, candide said:

I say we won't know exactly before it is voted by member States (or at least voting intents are expressed).

 

On top of it, it's more complex than what is written in the OP, I.e UK may only have a limited access, or it may be required to contribute to the fund.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/uk-hopes-of-quick-eu-defense-deal-fade-on-weapons-fund-access-11742586446242.html

Did you watch the update? It refers directly to the report you've linked to as not being the case.

[blazes]

16 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

They all seem like a bunch of childish babies.

 

"childish babies" is an excellent example of a tautology....

[nakhonandy]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

Lol, without Brexit there wouldn't be an issue. EU fund so EU purchases makes sense.

EU purchases of most things makes sense.

Not military, any military going into war wants the best and couldn't care less where it's made.

[Hamus Yaigh]

5 hours ago, blazes said:

Also, a reminder of why the UK needed to brexit...

The logical thought processes of a Brexiteer live in action.

[oxo1947]

 

Why does the French navy have glass bottom ships-------- so they can see their air force,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[John Drake]

7 hours ago, Social Media said:

Macron has called for Europe to “act united” in strengthening its defences. At the same time, however, France has spearheaded a diplomatic push in Brussels to adopt a “Europe only” procurement strategy—an approach that effectively shuts out major British defence firms like BAE Systems and Babcock from SAFE funding.

 

Yep. They're already turning on each other. Toldya so.

 

"There are calls to buy European at the moment. But just wait once all these national European firms clear the field for themselves. They'll turn on each other, as they usually do, because the Germans and the French will try to manipulate things solely for their benefit."

 

 

[John Drake]

6 hours ago, Gsxrnz said:

All of Europe better do something to appease the disenfranchised young male population, because in time of need they won't have enough willing bodies to pull the triggers or fly the planes.

 

The real problem might be who will actually build the internment camps to hold all the conscientious objectors. 

 

Conscript the people coming over in the boats in the UK and rushing the borders in Germany and send them directly to the Ukrainian meatgrinder. While you'll help Ukraine, you'll also discourage illegal immigration. Win-win.

[PuiPuiHarry]

The UK decided to "sail alone on the world waters" and left the EU in Brexit, so wy any EU funds would go to the UK ?

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

Maybe the UK should just shrug its shoulders and spend all our money for the armed forces with UK and US defence companies for what we need, and let the French cry over their breakfast croissants regarding fishing rights... typical petty bourgeois French spite.

Perhaps observing Trump’s behavior toward Ukraine, withholding military equipment in the middle of a war against an invader is something to factor into the decision.

 

And then there’s this:

 

9 hours ago, Social Media said:

The exclusion policy specifically bans the purchase of advanced weapons systems where a non-EU country, such as the UK or US, has “design authority.” This is meant to prevent any non-EU country from influencing the use of weapons after they have been sold

The U.S. can no longer be regarded as a reliable defense partner. 
 

The UK needs to come to terms with that.

[DonniePeverley]

I've only just read the headlines, but completely absurd if true. 

 

The UK along with France, is the only real superpower who can offer a defence to Europe. This is a time when countries like Poland and Scandanavian countries (who are most under threat) really have to use their voice. Poland last year were incensed around the EU's behaviour to be playing politics with the UK over defence. 

[DonniePeverley]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

Conscript the people coming over in the boats in the UK and rushing the borders in Germany and send them directly to the Ukrainian meatgrinder. While you'll help Ukraine, you'll also discourage illegal immigration. Win-win.

 

36,000 people crosed the channel illegally last year into the UK. It's nothing. You are being played with. 

[John Drake]

2 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

36,000 people crosed the channel illegally last year into the UK. It's nothing. You are being played with. 

 

Sounds like 36,000 potential members of Ukrainian bound construction battalions. BTW I see the estimate for the last ten years is nearly 200,000. That's a good number for an expeditionary force to face off with the North Koreans.

[DonniePeverley]

3 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Sounds like 36,000 potential members of Ukrainian bound construction battalions. BTW I see the estimate for the last ten years is nearly 200,000. That's a good number for an expeditionary force to face off with the North Koreans.

 

The UK is an island. If we had a land border, you'd get hundreds of thousands crossing. If you live in Thailand, and go to the Myanmar Thailand borders, thousands cross the borders back and forth all day long. 

 

36,000 a year is nothing. There are estimates that from Bangladesh into India they see some 10,000 pour into INdia a day ! 

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

The UK is an island. If we had a land border, you'd get hundreds of thousands crossing. If you live in Thailand, and go to the Myanmar Thailand borders, thousands cross the borders back and forth all day long. 

 

36,000 a year is nothing. There are estimates that from Bangladesh into India they see some 10,000 pour into INdia a day ! 

36,000 a year is nothing. There are estimates that from Bangladesh into India they see some 10,000 pour into INdia a day !

 

Yes it is, that's just the number coming via the channel, there's far more than that overall and there's a huge difference between the size of India and the UK

[goldenbrwn1]

Starmer has nothing left of his reputation , so imo he should start brown nosing Trump immediately. We Brits have far more in common with the Americans than any country in Europe. Let Europe crack on and we just invest in defence of our Islands. I know it can sometimes come across as a joke with how we Brits view the French but it’s mostly true. I have had many run ins with the French and on that basis alone for me (let alone historically) ,  they are bloody rude c###s.

 

On a side note we should also concentrate on strengthening our military ties with the like’s of Norway and Finland. The French and the EU are one and the same. Germany should grow some back balls as well and stand up to Macron who btw, I have no idea why is still in power! 

[RayC]

According to Henry Foy (comments made in weekly FT podcast), the EU - presumably the Commission and Parliament? - plus 22 of the 27  EU member states are in favour of allowing the UK's participation in this defence fund. The '5' are unnamed but France is obviously one and Hungary almost certainly another. The others are 'neutral' states, whatever that may mean in this context?

 

Foy says that there is significant pressure being applied to the objectors to change their stance and that the 3 'neutral' states will come on board. Orban is a law unto himself, but the main stumbling block is seem as being France, who are being intransigent about the issue.

 

Imo it is difficult to see this as anything other than (misplaced) opportunism on the part of the French. I know very little about the Defence sector, but as one of the top two nations in Western Europe with a (relatively) significant defence capability, it seems a misplaced strategy by the French to put what up-to-now has been quite an cohesive and impressive European response to events at risk.

[JonnyF]

Great to see Starmers attempts at sucking up to the EU rejected.

 

The fool wants to rejoin but doesn't have the minerals to say it.

 

Pathetic specimen. 

[BusyB]

 

16 hours ago, Social Media said:

“Europe needs Britain’s defence industry a bit more than the French need a few extra fish,” a senior British government source said

 

'They need us more than we need them'. Yet again. I'm stunned anyone's still daring to come out with this long ago discredited bilge.

 

Even after 9 years no one seems to grasp it. Same old same old. And the decline continues 'apace' as the pols say nowadays. I guess it's just really hard to face the fact that the UK no longer belongs to the family now it's a common or garden third country.

 

The country now also facing a serious essential medicines shortage caused by a 20% drop in EU imports since before the referendumb. The UK at the bottom of the G7 list for medical imports. Similar picture for exports. Key factor? (Nuffield Trust): Brexit.

 

And AN's political scientologists now blaming Starmer and 'Labour'. And seriously think that mental pygmies and second rate bog wallahs like Farage, Badenoch and Yaxley-Lennon are the answer. Hint: They are all symptoms of something else that has yet to be addressed properly.

 

Sad sad sad what has happened to the country I grew up in. The only place I've ever travelled to (the Midlands a few months ago) where they think they are 'world leading', but have business class lounges without even a sodding toilet to use. (And I mean without one, not under repair, broken whatever - simply no toilets.) The '3 Star' hotel charging 4 star prices that doesn't even offer a sodding dressing gown and slippers, never mind a phone, much less room service. Don't get me started on the waterways - they make the Chao Praya look like spa water. 

 

It will gradually sink in I hope that nobody needs the UK. It should have been clear by now to anyone with an ounce of nous. And until it has sunk in there cannot be any change in direction. By then though I suspect it will probably be too late to reverse the decline. There's certainly no evidence of anyone in public life right now with the necessary vision, wisdom or acumen to pull that off. And there's no sign amongst the population at large - and I listened to quite a few tales and whinges - that there is anyone even interested in genuine change. Sad. Really sad. You have exactly the leaders you all deserve.

 

Mind you, the 'King's golden carriages are sooo impressive. Totally pretty. And all those horses! More than the entire US Army owns! One of the few 'public services' that didn't see any cuts at all. Whaddaya know.

 

Just a shame the nurses and firefighters cheering him on had to race home after the big parade before the food banks closed. Back to baked beans on toast like in the 70s.

 

Decline? - Delicious!

 

[BusyB]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps observing Trump’s behavior toward Ukraine, withholding military equipment in the middle of a war against an invader is something to factor into the decision.

 

And then there’s this:

 

The U.S. can no longer be regarded as a reliable defense partner. 
 

The UK needs to come to terms with that.

 

It also needs to come to terms that it is in the same category. The chances of reform or Tories coming to power in a few years are huge. Their principles and priorities are diagonally opposed to the EU's and they luuurve the Trump.

[DonniePeverley]

7 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

36,000 a year is nothing. There are estimates that from Bangladesh into India they see some 10,000 pour into INdia a day !

 

Yes it is, that's just the number coming via the channel, there's far more than that overall and there's a huge difference between the size of India and the UK

 

 

The UK let in nearly 1.2 MILLION LEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN 2024. 36,000 illegal immigrants is nothing in comparison.

 

The boats was just a Tory race bait that was an own goal. 

 

Go to the USA and see the sheer volume of illegal immigration from Mexico - it's astonishing. 

[Bkk Brian]

5 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

 

The UK let in nearly 1.2 MILLION LEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN 2024. 36,000 illegal immigrants is nothing in comparison.

 

The boats was just a Tory race bait that was an own goal. 

 

Go to the USA and see the sheer volume of illegal immigration from Mexico - it's astonishing. 

First you attempt to make a comparison with India, then the US and bring politics into it just to make you feel better. When all you really need to do is look at how your argument is a false equivalence.

 

You've not taken into account the population size and density of India, the US and the UK to see how incoming illegal migrants have an impact on the local population. Give it a go, you will see immediately where you fall down at the first hurdle.

 

This is about known statistics and if you insist on using the US then after you've taken into account its vastly higher population and vastly lower population density then the latest figures for illegal UK boat crossings and US border crossings are having a far larger impact on the UK than the US.

 

As US border crossings fall, UK small boats hit record highs

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/small-boat-crossings-hit-record-level/

 

 

 

 

[John Drake]

20 hours ago, goldenbrwn1 said:

Starmer has nothing left of his reputation , so imo he should start brown nosing Trump immediately. We Brits have far more in common with the Americans than any country in Europe. Let Europe crack on and we just invest in defence of our Islands. I know it can sometimes come across as a joke with how we Brits view the French but it’s mostly true. I have had many run ins with the French and on that basis alone for me (let alone historically) ,  they are bloody rude c###s.

 

On a side note we should also concentrate on strengthening our military ties with the like’s of Norway and Finland. The French and the EU are one and the same. Germany should grow some back balls as well and stand up to Macron who btw, I have no idea why is still in power! 

 

When Macron says "buy European," he means "buy French products that otherwise cannot compete." The EU and before that the EC was always about being led around by the French with the German lapdog licking up their droppings.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, John Drake said:

 

When Macron says "buy European," he means "buy French products that otherwise cannot compete." The EU and before that the EC was always about being led around by the French with the German lapdog licking up their droppings.

Strange comment since brexiteers were always complaining about Germany as the villain in the EU.

[Bkk Brian]

50 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Strange comment since brexiteers were always complaining about Germany as the villain in the EU.

Is that right? You know how?

[DonniePeverley]

The UK should just stay out of this. 

 

Develop it's own security hardcore (especially protecting it's infrustructure) and build up it's nuclear detterant. That's it. And stay out of it. 

 

Fishing rites mixed with the security of Europe is beyond absurd. 

[GammaGlobulin]

We are about to see a GREAT DIVIDE....

 

The UK will side with TRUMP.

 

And....

 

The weak EU will try to go its own way.

 

This Great Separation is now happening.

 

The EU made its choice many years ago...and now....

The EU will be compelled to sleep in the bed it's made.