Poll -- Who will cave first in the momentous China-USA trade war?

[JGon]

8 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Is that still true anymore?  The US is no longer the 'west'.  Trump can only bully his alleged allies so much, sanctions are losing their effectiveness.  Even his European vassals are beginning to show signs of independence.

I think that's the whole point of this... independence. The end of Globalization as we know it.

[NoDisplayName]

2 minutes ago, JGon said:

I think that's the whole point of this... independence. The end of Globalization as we know it.

 

Globalization will still be here, but Trump will be taking 'merka back to the 1800's, separated from the world economy.

 

We'll have 100% 'merkan production using 100% 'merkan labor with 100% 'merkan components for all our conestoga wagons and buggy whips.

 

Winning!

[Eric Loh]

57 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Pure CCP shill talk.

Keep burrowing down and defending the fool. You soon see that Trump's tariff war is a big ponzi scam for him and his inner circle. 

[Purdey]

The U.S. really needs to halve its wage bill if it is to compete against China. The other alternative is for the U.S. to build autonomous plants that do not require labor. Either way, a lot of people will be upset.

[beautifulthailand99]

 

[Jingthing]

22 minutes ago, Purdey said:

The U.S. really needs to halve its wage bill if it is to compete against China. The other alternative is for the U.S. to build autonomous plants that do not require labor. Either way, a lot of people will be upset.

Most Americans can barely afford to live at the current wage levels.

The entire premise of this trade war is moronic.

Americans don't want to do manual labor.

Any new factories are going to be totally automated providing jobs mostly for advanced engineers.

Globalization is good.

Sure some strategic industries may need limited protection.

Those are the RATIONAL uses of tariffs.

Compete and invest for a decent future based on higher value labor.

Those that will never be able to catch up can be put on guaranteed minimum income, VR consoles, and mood altering drugs.

I realize that sounds harsh, but I'm serious. For those that can't catch up, there aren't going to jobs for them anyway. Better to have a realistic humane approach. 

Why would the USA want to be the grunt "worker bee" nation again? Is that great?!?

[JustinT]

27 minutes ago, Purdey said:

The U.S. really needs to halve its wage bill if it is to compete against China. The other alternative is for the U.S. to build autonomous plants that do not require labor. Either way, a lot of people will be upset.

Americans don't want to work in factories anyway, even for the current high wages in the US.  That's the bizarre part of this trade war.  Nobody wants the jobs Trump is trying to bring back.

[rough diamond]

4 minutes ago, JustinT said:

Nobody wants the jobs Trump is trying to bring back.

And it would take years to set up the new factories assuming that companies would even try to do so as they now will have little faith in Trump/USA sticking to any promises/policies.

[placeholder]

7 hours ago, novacova said:

China of course, if Xi doesn’t come forward then China’s economy will collapse and Xi will be out.

15% of China's exports go to the USA. China will survive the loss. If the US doesn't back down.  I don't think Americans voted for higher prices when they voted for Trump. I believe inflation was the main issue that put Trump over the top.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Im a traditional conservative (actually what would have been known as a liberal before that term was coopted by Socialists)

and I agree with you on nothing. You are a blatant America hater with a one issue agenda.

Sad. Jingthing comes so close to being an America lover. He loves Mom, apple pie, and Mom's apple pie. But because he doesn't love Donald Trump, that means he hates America.

[GammaGlobulin]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Reportedly China if it chooses has the power to destroy the USA with this trade war.

 

According to which "reportage"?

I am speaking French now.

The Chinese, including ZhouEnLai, have always loved the French, and French diplomacy.

But, the French know nothing about handling Great Power, these days.

 

Do you have a link to the reportage that you refer to?

If you do, then maybe some of us can evaluate whether it seems analytically sound.

 

Our (the entire world's) biggest error was in inviting China to join the WTO without stringent restrictions.

Another error was relying on China to be the worlds single supplier, without diversification.

 

It is time to stop China from using its trade with the world to fund its military so that it can dream about such things as invading Taiwan.

China is a PARIAH on the world stage.

 

The USA is all about DEMOCRACY and caring for weaker countries, in order to help the weaker countries to quickly boost their economies and...

Thereby become RICH....

 

This is according to the reportage that I have been familiar with during the  past six decades.

 

Do you have a link to the reportage that you mention in this Topic?

 

 

[rough diamond]

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 But because he doesn't love Donald Trump, that means he hates America.

Hating the leader does not mean you hate the country it rules over.

I dislike Trump, especially his impact on the rest of the world, but that does NOT mean that I hate America.

I hate Putin but not Russia, same as I hate the Iranian regime but have some very good Iranian friends.

[jts-khorat]

5 hours ago, JustinT said:

Xi doesn't have to face elections.  He can wait indefinitely.  He can easily wait a couple of years until the US midterms.  After that, the new democrat controlled congress will simply remove the tariffs if the orange lunatic hasn't already done so by then.

 

There is, of course, also always the option to distract the masses with an external threat, and the US is giving Xi a big target.

 

Taking one or two shoals in the South China Sea? Attacking Taiwan or entering Siberia? Maybe even an attack on Diego Garcia, just to send a signal (even though that would smell a little bit too much like Pearl harbor, and I doubt that the Chinese are yet up for a total war)?

 

The options seem endless for the Chinese, and indeed, they only need to span the time until the next election cycle, which is not long.

 

I would give the Chinese an 80% chance to come out on top in a trade war, not just because they can deflect their internal public opinion easily, but also because the whole world is (trade-)fighting the Americans, while Trump is attacking China all on his own (keeping even 10% of tariffs is enough to rile up even the staunchest ally).

[jvs]

2 hours ago, 3NUMBAS said:

America doesn’t have the skills and engineers to build iPhones ,without china they would be using house phones only and antiquated analogue phones

they can’t do it

Even if they could the price would be much higher.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, JustinT said:

Americans don't want to work in factories anyway, even for the current high wages in the US.  That's the bizarre part of this trade war.  Nobody wants the jobs Trump is trying to bring back.

 

When was the last time Trump himself held down one of those jobs he's trying to bring back for the plebes?

[NoDisplayName]

44 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

Taking one or two shoals in the South China Sea? Attacking Taiwan or entering Siberia? Maybe even an attack on Diego Garcia, just to send a signal (even though that would smell a little bit too much like Pearl harbor, and I doubt that the Chinese are yet up for a total war)?

 

I would expect a covert operation to tip over Guam.

 

Shouldn't be that difficult, not the way it's top-heavy with all those B-2's loaded to the gills with bombs for freedom.

[rough diamond]

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

I would expect a covert operation to tip over Guam.

 

Shouldn't be that difficult, not the way it's top-heavy with all those B-2's loaded to the gills with bombs for freedom.

Wrong island! They are on Diego Garcia!

[Mo Sawadee]

8 hours ago, novacova said:

Through your prism any success of Trump is bad, the same mentality with the border issue…the left will always do the exact opposite for the sake of spite opposed to any good, is why the left is a heap of rubble and in complete shambles and yet they continue to relentlessly shooting themselves in the butt.

Yes, the <removed> is strong! These liberals pray for the demise of their own country! Pathetic! 

[JustinT]

48 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

Taking one or two shoals in the South China Sea? Attacking Taiwan or entering Siberia? Maybe even an attack on Diego Garcia, just to send a signal (even though that would smell a little bit too much like Pearl harbor, and I doubt that the Chinese are yet up for a total war)?

 

Well Trump did put tariffs on Diego Garcia, so maybe he's anticipating them surrendering to the Chinese.  Although, I think it's more likely he had no idea the only thing there is a US military base when he decided to tariff them.

[bkk6060]

Trump will cave first, but so what.

[stupidfarang]

8 hours ago, novacova said:

China of course, if Xi doesn’t come forward then China’s economy will collapse and Xi will be out.

Then you do not understand the Chinese economy. Yes China debt is very high but the debt is differant fron the USA. China debt is mostly domestic, banks, local goverments property market and based on the Yuan(china mostly borrows in Yuan) and can be controlled by the goverment decisions are fast unlike usa who have trouble passing budgets.

 

USA debt is dollar based and part of the global system, if yields spike, debt service costs go up, treasury demand drops the dollar slides. Need to look at what the debt is funding as well for both countries. USA debt is war, tax cuts for the rich, stock buybacks and social debt. China is infrastructure, industrial, R&D and property market

[beautifulthailand99]

11 minutes ago, stupidfarang said:

Then you do not understand the Chinese economy. Yes China debt is very high but the debt is differant fron the USA. China debt is mostly domestic, banks, local goverments property market and based on the Yuan(china mostly borrows in Yuan) and can be controlled by the goverment decisions are fast unlike usa who have trouble passing budgets.

 

USA debt is dollar based and part of the global system, if yields spike, debt service costs go up, treasury demand drops the dollar slides. Need to look at what the debt is funding as well for both countries. USA debt is war, tax cuts for the rich, stock buybacks and social debt. China is infrastructure, industrial, R&D and property market

Indeed with the ability to shake down or even arrest and execute rogue billionaires if they are getting too rich and/or corrupt. Now I like that a bigly lot. A billion is more than enough for anyone - the rest is stealing the worker's labour.

[NoDisplayName]

36 minutes ago, rough diamond said:

Wrong island! They are on Diego Garcia!

 

Trump must have renamed it to confuse the Chinese.

 

"Velly crever, mistah Tlump!  Yu winning this lound!"

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Pure CCP shill talk.

You are in denial of reality.

 

China has 48,000 km of high speed rail. The USA has 80 km. That should tell anyone all they need to know about the current infrastructure of both countries.

 

Australia has been approached by China to join hands.

 

https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/australian-politics/2025/04/10/pm-china-join-hands-tariffs?ahe

 

Straws in the wind. Why should we stick with America, when we are treated like a trading enemy?

 

The USA is good at making weapons. Not much else to see by way of useful stuff, is there?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Mo Sawadee said:

Yes, the <removed> is strong! These liberals pray for the demise of their own country! Pathetic! 

Wrong. They are praying for the demise of Trump and his lickspittles, who are dragging America into depression with their incompetence.

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You are in denial of reality.

 

China has 48,000 km of high speed rail. The USA has 80 km. That should tell anyone all they need to know about the current infrastructure of both countries.

 

Australia has been approached by China to join hands.

 

https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/australian-politics/2025/04/10/pm-china-join-hands-tariffs?ahe

 

Straws in the wind. Why should we stick with America, when we are treated like a trading enemy?

 

The USA is good at making weapons. Not much else to see by way of useful stuff, is there?

SYDNEY, April 10 (Reuters) - Australia on Thursday declined Beijing's proposal to work together to counter U.S. tariffs, saying instead it would continue to diversify its trade and lower its reliance on China, its largest trading partner.

"We are not going to be holding hands with China in respect of any contest that is going on in the world," Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles told Sky News, referring to the Chinese ambassador's proposal for countries to "join hands" on trade.

https://www.reuters.com/business/australia-turns-down-chinas-offer-join-hands-fight-us-tariffs-2025-04-10/

Seems Australia has declined China offer

[Lacessit]

Just now, vinny41 said:

SYDNEY, April 10 (Reuters) - Australia on Thursday declined Beijing's proposal to work together to counter U.S. tariffs, saying instead it would continue to diversify its trade and lower its reliance on China, its largest trading partner.

"We are not going to be holding hands with China in respect of any contest that is going on in the world," Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles told Sky News, referring to the Chinese ambassador's proposal for countries to "join hands" on trade.

https://www.reuters.com/business/australia-turns-down-chinas-offer-join-hands-fight-us-tariffs-2025-04-10/

Seems Australia has declined China offer

True. That does not mean the stance can't change. Public opinion guides politicians.

 

Who would you prefer to trade with, someone who has zero tariffs on what you sell, or someone who taxes you 10%, with the threat of more if you respond in kind? Someone who wants to make your medications more expensive by forcing you to dismantle the PBS?

 

I don't know about you; as far as I am concerned Trump and his supporters can go <deleted> themselves.

[worgeordie]

Just wait till americans are barred from buying their crap from

Temu ,Aliexpress  etc , they are going to be pissed and Trump

does not like been disliked ,that's why he just paused (flip Flop)

on the tariffs ,because people did not like what he was doing 

and there were many protests ,and Trump folded like a cheap

suit ,Xi would never do that....back down.

 

regards Worgeordie

[vinny41]

23 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

True. That does not mean the stance can't change. Public opinion guides politicians.

 

Who would you prefer to trade with, someone who has zero tariffs on what you sell, or someone who taxes you 10%, with the threat of more if you respond in kind? Someone who wants to make your medications more expensive by forcing you to dismantle the PBS?

 

I don't know about you; as far as I am concerned Trump and his supporters can go <deleted> themselves.

In Australia its pure greed by Australia that prevents them from stopping trade completely with USA since their Exports to the United States are less than 5% of Australia's total goods exports. 

[Lacessit]

Just now, vinny41 said:

In Australia its pure greed by Australia that prevents them from stopping trade completely with USA since their Exports to the United States are less than 5% of Australia's total goods exports. 

The USA has a positive trade balance with Australia. Pure greed is Big Pharma in America lobbying Trump to sell medications in Australia at inflated US prices.

 

Example: A year's supply of an inhibitor medication cost me AUD 100. In America, it would have cost me USD 70,000. Tough luck if I could not afford it.

 

My comment about Trump and his supporters obviously applies to you as well.