Poll -- Who will cave first in the momentous China-USA trade war?

[Gottfrid]

I voted no one will cave. The reason is that no side will ever admit.

[Lacessit]

11 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

I use this mug for my tea, every morning....

 

Your descent into senility becomes more obvious with every post.

[Lacessit]

12 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly you don't understand why is Australia bothering to trade with the USA since Australia  Exports to the United States are less than 5% of Australia's total goods exports unless your exports are so crappy that  Australia is unable to find another mug to take those products

Australia can produce flat-rolled steel and ship it to the west coast of America at a lower cost than the Chicago steel mills can rail it there. The ones that are left, that is.

 

If you eat lobster in any restaurants on the west coast of America, odds are it came from Tasmanian waters. Clean food.

 

You are posting blithering nonsense.

[Lacessit]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Silly comment. The US is the second largest exporter of goods in the world. US manufacturers aren't forcing people to buy their stuff. Well, at least not yet. Give Trump some more time and who knows...

You don't seem to understand Trump has outraged many countries with these arbitrary blanket tariffs, irrespective of whether said country is an ally, neutral or otherwise.

 

Which is why many people are saying <deleted> America.

 

I am used to more intelligent posts from you.

[Jingthing]

I concur. The American people are going to need to find a way to remove this human stain from power or our country is over.

 

Ana Navarro Thinks Trump Should Be “In A Padded Room Playing With His Own Drool” For Causing “Trauma” To Americans With His Tariffs

 

Ana Navarro does not think Americans are out of the woods now that President Donald Trump has announced a 90-day pause on tariffs, which briefly raised the stock market last night.

On this morning’s episode of The View, Navarro accused Trump and his so-called “strategic” plan of inflicting undue distress on American citizens who lost money in the stock market after he announced his initial tariff policies.

 

“If they’re saying that this was all strategic, then he is a sadist,” she fumed. “Because what kind of government leader puts his people through this kind of distress and sadness and anxiety for a week just for giggles?”

[beautifulthailand99]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I concur. The American people are going to need to find a way to remove this human stain from power or our country is over.

 

Ana Navarro Thinks Trump Should Be “In A Padded Room Playing With His Own Drool” For Causing “Trauma” To Americans With His Tariffs

 

Ana Navarro does not think Americans are out of the woods now that President Donald Trump has announced a 90-day pause on tariffs, which briefly raised the stock market last night.

On this morning’s episode of The View, Navarro accused Trump and his so-called “strategic” plan of inflicting undue distress on American citizens who lost money in the stock market after he announced his initial tariff policies.

 

“If they’re saying that this was all strategic, then he is a sadist,” she fumed. “Because what kind of government leader puts his people through this kind of distress and sadness and anxiety for a week just for giggles?”

As Vlad Vexler implies in his chats it is over - we are at the end of a huge bubble of everything which American finacial trickery and huge debt and huge QE has made possible. The young know they aren't rich as they can't buy houses, have decent long term jobs or pensions and are saddled with debt. This decline could probably have been unwinded slow and progressively - the Trump put has gone for the blow it all up route. No that he knows that yet. 7th bankruptcy on the way - USA.

[GammaGlobulin]

6 hours ago, placeholder said:

The illogic is all on your side. I don't see JTS-Khorat defending the Chinese regime in his comments. Merely pointing out what he believes are advantages they enjoy. All you have done in reply is accuse him of ignorance without offering anything substantive to oppose his observations. Why do you think the China will break before the US does?

 

May I suggest Gordon's new book, just recently hot on the shelves....

 

[beautifulthailand99]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Your descent into senility becomes more obvious with every post.

At the end it was just the kids that worshipped Hitler all the old folks who could hold a rifle were probably dead !

[SunnyinBangrak]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Your descent into senility becomes more obvious with every post.

From the same crowd that just spent 4 years drumming the "you need a degree in clinical psychology to diagnose senility" bs drum? More proof the left deal in party line narratives with no base in reality whatsoever.

Standby for the "youre making stuff up again, nobody ever denied Biden was senile" 😅

[vinny41]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Australia can produce flat-rolled steel and ship it to the west coast of America at a lower cost than the Chicago steel mills can rail it there. The ones that are left, that is.

 

If you eat lobster in any restaurants on the west coast of America, odds are it came from Tasmanian waters. Clean food.

 

You are posting blithering nonsense.

It was you that posted that Australia doesn't need US trade

19 hours ago, Lacessit said:

You are in denial of reality.

 

China has 48,000 km of high speed rail. The USA has 80 km. That should tell anyone all they need to know about the current infrastructure of both countries.

 

Australia has been approached by China to join hands.

 

https://www.thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/australian-politics/2025/04/10/pm-china-join-hands-tariffs?ahe

 

Straws in the wind. Why should we stick with America, when we are treated like a trading enemy?

 

The USA is good at making weapons. Not much else to see by way of useful stuff, is there?

I think you will find that US doesn't want Australian steel similar to Australia doesn't want US Beef products

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

May I suggest Gordon's new book, just recently hot on the shelves....

 

Sure. Let's say that China will collapse some day. But what day is that?  It's about whether Xi or Trump gives in first. And I did read an article by him on this issue. In that article he took no account of the political dimension in this struggle.  He took no account of the fact that Xi doesn't have to worry about midterm elections. Chang may be an "experienced China ham" but maybe not such an experienced American one.

And you might want to read something from these "China hams"

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/underestimating-china?s=ESPAZ005A1&utm_medium=promo_email&utm_source=fa_edit&utm_campaign=pre_release_understanding-china_prospects_a&utm_content=20250410&utm_term=ESPAZ005A1

[beautifulthailand99]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Sure. Let's say that China will collapse some day. But what day is that. B It's about whether Xi or Trump gives in first. And I did read an article by him on this issue. In that article he took no account of the political dimension in this struggle.  He took no account of the fact that Xi doesn't have to worry about midterm elections. Chang may be an "experienced China ham" but maybe not such an experienced American one.

I know who I'd be betting on - what come up quickly goes down quickly.

 

🇨🇳 China

• Civilization began: Around 2100 BCE (with the semi-mythical Xia Dynasty).

• Unified empire began: 221 BCE, when Qin Shi Huang united the warring states into the Qin Dynasty—this is where the name “China” comes from.

• So China has over 4,000 years of continuous civilization and over 2,000 years as a unified state (off and on, with dynasties rising and falling).

🇺🇸 United States

• Independence declared: 1776 CE

• That makes the U.S. about 250 years old.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

May I suggest Gordon's new book, just recently hot on the shelves....

 

 

The Coming Collapse of China is a book by Gordon G. Chang, published in 2001, in which he argued that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) was the root cause of many of China's problems and would cause the country's collapse by 2011.

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

The Coming Collapse of China is a book by Gordon G. Chang, published in 2001, in which he argued that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) was the root cause of many of China's problems and would cause the country's collapse by 2011.

The Coming Collapse of China is a book by Gordon G. Chang, published in 2001, in which he argued that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) was the root cause of many of China's problems and would cause the country's collapse by 2011. When 2011 was almost over, Chang admitted that his prediction was wrong but said it was off by only a year, asserting in Foreign Policy that the CCP would fall in 2012. Consequently he made the magazine's "10 worst predictions of the year" twice.^[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Collapse_of_China

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

The Coming Collapse of China is a book by Gordon G. Chang, published in 2001, in which he argued that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) was the root cause of many of China's problems and would cause the country's collapse by 2011. When 2011 was almost over, Chang admitted that his prediction was wrong but said it was off by only a year, asserting in Foreign Policy that the CCP would fall in 2012. Consequently he made the magazine's "10 worst predictions of the year" twice.^[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Collapse_of_China

 

 

He's a reds under the bed frother. 

[GammaGlobulin]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Sure. Let's say that China will collapse some day. But what day is that?  It's about whether Xi or Trump gives in first. And I did read an article by him on this issue. In that article he took no account of the political dimension in this struggle.  He took no account of the fact that Xi doesn't have to worry about midterm elections. Chang may be an "experienced China ham" but maybe not such an experienced American one.

And you might want to read something from these "China hams"

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/china/underestimating-china?s=ESPAZ005A1&utm_medium=promo_email&utm_source=fa_edit&utm_campaign=pre_release_understanding-china_prospects_a&utm_content=20250410&utm_term=ESPAZ005A1

 

If Gordon does not know, how are we to know.

Gordon Chang has been telling use China will collapse for decades now.

And, each year, I have been looking forward to the collapse of Commie China, but it has not yet happened.

Maybe, hopefully, Trump, together with the help of Xi, will finally accomplish the collapse of China.

One can only hope.

 

I also find it foolish to predict anything, or try to.

There is just too much of that, already, going on in the USA, on major news programs.

And, the worst is the financial forecasters.

Especially that guy....what's his face....the excitable one....

 

Let's just say that Gordon is very well-meaning.

 

[GammaGlobulin]

32 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The Coming Collapse of China is a book by Gordon G. Chang, published in 2001, in which he argued that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) was the root cause of many of China's problems and would cause the country's collapse by 2011. When 2011 was almost over, Chang admitted that his prediction was wrong but said it was off by only a year, asserting in Foreign Policy that the CCP would fall in 2012. Consequently he made the magazine's "10 worst predictions of the year" twice.^[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Collapse_of_China

 

 

 

Yes,

But.

He had a great blog on Forbes for awhile, back in the day.

He is a lot of fun.

 

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

It was you that posted that Australia doesn't need US trade

I think you will find that US doesn't want Australian steel similar to Australia doesn't want US Beef products

I did not, that's what you said. I posted the US has a positive trade balance.

 

Manufacturers on the west coast of America want Australian steel, it's cheaper. You probably don't know we make steel from 60% Fe iron ore, not the crappy 30% Fe taconite the USA mines.

 

IMO you are losing the plot with your posts, you keep making claims unsubstantiated by fact.

[Lacessit]

37 minutes ago, placeholder said:

The Coming Collapse of China is a book by Gordon G. Chang, published in 2001, in which he argued that the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) was the root cause of many of China's problems and would cause the country's collapse by 2011. When 2011 was almost over, Chang admitted that his prediction was wrong but said it was off by only a year, asserting in Foreign Policy that the CCP would fall in 2012. Consequently he made the magazine's "10 worst predictions of the year" twice.^[1][2][3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coming_Collapse_of_China

 

 

If any country is showing signs of collapse, it is America.

[LosLobo]

[vinny41]

28 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I did not, that's what you said. I posted the US has a positive trade balance.

 

Manufacturers on the west coast of America want Australian steel, it's cheaper. You probably don't know we make steel from 60% Fe iron ore, not the crappy 30% Fe taconite the USA mines.

 

IMO you are losing the plot with your posts, you keep making claims unsubstantiated by fact.

Australian steel prices plummet as US tariffs fuel rise in imports

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-06/steel-deals-to-be-had-as-tariffs-fuel-glut-of-cheap-imports/105122848

"A lot of the steel going into the USA [will be] out of the market, and that's going to have to find a home," he said.

Mr Gianniotis said, earlier this year, buying imported steel was around 10 per cent cheaper than buying from domestic suppliers.

After the US tariffs were announced, that discount doubled to 20 per cent.

I don't think there will be many US companies buying Australian steel when it comes with extra tarriffs 

[NoDisplayName]

China raises duties on US goods to 125%, calls Trump tariff hikes a 'joke'

 

• China raises additional duties on U.S. goods to 125%
• Beijing calls Trump's tariff increases 'a joke'
• China says it will not respond to any further U.S. tariff hikes
• China seeks to rally support among other trading partners

 

No point in China raising tariffs any further.  Raising tariffs won't cut imports from the US below zero.

However it left the door open for Beijing to turn to other types of retaliation, reiterating that China would fight the U.S. to the end.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-increase-tariffs-us-goods-125-up-84-finance-ministry-says-2025-04-11/

 

 

Well, Mr. President, the ball (made in Vietnam with China-sourced vinyl) is in your (mortgage foreclosure pending) court (built my illegal Mexican labor with Chinese construction materials)!

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Australian steel prices plummet as US tariffs fuel rise in imports

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-04-06/steel-deals-to-be-had-as-tariffs-fuel-glut-of-cheap-imports/105122848

"A lot of the steel going into the USA [will be] out of the market, and that's going to have to find a home," he said.

Mr Gianniotis said, earlier this year, buying imported steel was around 10 per cent cheaper than buying from domestic suppliers.

After the US tariffs were announced, that discount doubled to 20 per cent.

I don't think there will be many US companies buying Australian steel when it comes with extra tarriffs 

You are talking about two different scenarios.

 

Australia, with no tariffs, getting steel dumped by Vietnam and the UAE into the Australian market.

 

The USA applying tariffs to imported steel.

 

The tariffs are supposed to stimulate the US steel industry. Which by now is 70% recycled scrap in electric arc furnaces. The only thing the tariffs will stimulate is a recession.

[spidermike007]

I predict the American knucklehead will cave in, he's a terrible negotiator, we've all seen that, and Xi by far has the winning hand in this game. 

 

From the NY Times editorial page. It really captures the stupidity of Trump and his goons. 

 

Think of what Trump; his chief knucklehead, Howard Lutnick (the commerce secretary); his assistant chief knucklehead, Scott Bessent (the Treasury secretary); and his deputy assistant chief knucklehead, Peter Navarro (the top trade adviser), have told us repeatedly for the past weeks: Trump won’t back off on these tariffs because — take your choice — he needs them to keep fentanyl from killing our kids, he needs them to raise revenue to pay for future tax cuts, and he needs them to pressure the world to buy more stuff from us. And he couldn’t care less what his rich pals on Wall Street say about their stock market losses.

 

After creating havoc in the markets standing on these steadfast “principles” — undoubtedly prompting many Americans to sell low out of fear — Trump reversed much of it on Wednesday, announcing a 90-day pause on certain tariffs to most countries, excluding China.

 

Message to the world — and to the Chinese: “I couldn’t take the heat.” If it were a book it would be called “The Art of the Squeal.”

 

But when you have a country as big as China — 1.4 billion people — with the talent, infrastructure and savings it has, the only way to negotiate is with leverage on our side of the table. And the best way to get leverage would have been for Trump to enlist our allies in the European Union, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Brazil, Vietnam, Canada, Mexico, India, Australia and Indonesia into a united front. Make it a negotiation of the whole world versus China.

 

But instead of making it the whole industrial world against China, Trump made it America against the whole industrial world and China. Now, Beijing knows that Trump not only blinked, but he so alienated our allies, so demonstrated that his word cannot be trusted for a second, that many of them may never align with us against China in the same way. They may, instead, see China as a better, more stable long-term partner than us.

 

What a pathetic, shameful performance. Happy Liberation Day. Clearly the best president ever, folks. No U.S. leader has ever lost so much for no reason while regaining some of it and accomplishing nothing with such efficiency. 

 

The Art of the deal!

[Magictoad]

On 4/10/2025 at 9:50 AM, novacova said:

Through your prism any success of Trump is bad, the same mentality with the border issue…the left will always do the exact opposite for the sake of spite opposed to any good, is why the left is a heap of rubble and in complete shambles and yet they continue to relentlessly shooting themselves in the butt.

The left?

[Chalong circle]

16 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I predict the American knucklehead will cave in, he's a terrible negotiator, we've all seen that, and Xi by far has the winning hand in this game. 

 

From the NY Times editorial page. It really captures the stupidity of Trump and his goons. 

 

Think of what Trump; his chief knucklehead, Howard Lutnick (the commerce secretary); his assistant chief knucklehead, Scott Bessent (the Treasury secretary); and his deputy assistant chief knucklehead, Peter Navarro (the top trade adviser), have told us repeatedly for the past weeks: Trump won’t back off on these tariffs because — take your choice — he needs them to keep fentanyl from killing our kids, he needs them to raise revenue to pay for future tax cuts, and he needs them to pressure the world to buy more stuff from us. And he couldn’t care less what his rich pals on Wall Street say about their stock market losses.

 

After creating havoc in the markets standing on these steadfast “principles” — undoubtedly prompting many Americans to sell low out of fear — Trump reversed much of it on Wednesday, announcing a 90-day pause on certain tariffs to most countries, excluding China.

 

Message to the world — and to the Chinese: “I couldn’t take the heat.” If it were a book it would be called “The Art of the Squeal.”

 

But when you have a country as big as China — 1.4 billion people — with the talent, infrastructure and savings it has, the only way to negotiate is with leverage on our side of the table. And the best way to get leverage would have been for Trump to enlist our allies in the European Union, Japan, South Korea, Singapore, Brazil, Vietnam, Canada, Mexico, India, Australia and Indonesia into a united front. Make it a negotiation of the whole world versus China.

 

But instead of making it the whole industrial world against China, Trump made it America against the whole industrial world and China. Now, Beijing knows that Trump not only blinked, but he so alienated our allies, so demonstrated that his word cannot be trusted for a second, that many of them may never align with us against China in the same way. They may, instead, see China as a better, more stable long-term partner than us.

 

What a pathetic, shameful performance. Happy Liberation Day. Clearly the best president ever, folks. No U.S. leader has ever lost so much for no reason while regaining some of it and accomplishing nothing with such efficiency. 

 

The Art of the deal!

Happy Liberation day 55555 !

[placeholder]

On 4/10/2025 at 9:50 AM, novacova said:

Through your prism any success of Trump is bad, the same mentality with the border issue…the left will always do the exact opposite for the sake of spite opposed to any good, is why the left is a heap of rubble and in complete shambles and yet they continue to relentlessly shooting themselves in the butt.

Thanks for the generalizations. You got anything specific to offer to address the actual issue: Who will cave first and why you think so?

[still kicking]

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[Jingthing]

The moron president has no chance playing this big boy game against China.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The moron president has no chance playing this big boy game against China.

 

 

"You can't take money out of China in RMB and get pounds or euros or dollars for  it."

 

    ~some moron