Another win for Trump (breaking news)

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, BLMFem said:

Yep, the whole world needs to be constantly reminded of the madness Trump is up to.

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

So this is your full time gig? 

 

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, TheAppletons said:

 

  Since we are in the Ukraine war sub-forum, I wonder what the penalty is for spineless Russians who fled to Thailand to talk a lot of smack they were too cowardly to act upon.  Death penalty, you think?

Someone calling others cowardly, from behind their keyboards...  irony

[BLMFem]

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

 

So this is your full time gig? 

 

If you PM me your phone number I'll call you and let you know, Frogs.

[frank83628]

38 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

It's impossible to have a meaningful discussion with anyone who thinks the US orchestrated a coup, or that Ukraine was simply killing Russkies in the Donbass for fun, or who believes any of the other transparent Kremlin lies.

Those of us that don't believe the western lies.

You don't think the US wouldnt orchestrate a coup in general... or just not this one? 

[Cameroni]

Definitely great news for the US. China's refusal to sell rare earths is less of an issue now 

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Definitely great news for the US. China's refusal to sell rare earths is less of an issue now 

Hmm, how long do you think it will take for the US to be in need of the rare earths and how long will it take to start a meaningful supply from Ukraine?

[TheAppletons]

32 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Someone calling others cowardly, from behind their keyboards...  irony

 

  In this case, tragic irony:

 

  "a literary technique, originally used in Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character's words or actions are clear to the audience or reader although unknown to the character."

 

  Sorry if this confuses you, Dmitry.  (Not really.)

 

 

[jas007]

46 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

"Both countries"? What is the other country -- the United States?  What other country could be in the equation if they're jointly talking about mineral rights?

Both countries?  Ukraine and Russia. And as I understood Trump's initial thinking, the idea was for the USA and Russia to take and mine the mineral deposits spanning both countries and share in the proceeds. Russia gets a cut and the US take's its share as repayment for the money invested in the war effort.  

 

The situation reminds me of the scene in The Godfather where Sollozo meets with the Godfather in a bid to finance his drug business.  In exchange for the Godfather's support, Sollozo says he'll "take care of the Tattaglias out of his end."  

 

The same kind of deal is suggested here. Ruthless and transactional.  In the process, Ukraine loses.  It may not be fair, but where is it written that the world is a fair place? 

 

I apologize if I haven't kept up with the latest news.  In my mind, this war ended long ago.  

 

 

[frank83628]

39 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

If you PM me your phone number I'll call you and let you know, Frogs.

Oh look, AN tough talk, pretty sure that breaks the rules, also not very Lady like!

[frank83628]

17 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Hmm, how long do you think it will take for the US to be in need of the rare earths and how long will it take to start a meaningful supply from Ukraine?

Oh look, the penny dropped, but only half way

[ChicagoExpat]

17 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Those of us that don't believe the western lies.

You don't think the US wouldnt orchestrate a coup in general... or just not this one? 

The latter.  I gave you a straight answer, and hope to be surprised by you in return.

 

Let's talk about Yanukovich -- key to the "coup" you mention.  He was elected on a platform of reform and strengthening ties to the EU.  Which he was doing... until suddenly he wasn't.  He changed his approach midterm to a pro-Russian one and backed out of an overwhelmingly popular agreement to associate with the EU, and that's when protests started.  Because that's what free people do when they feel their government is going in the wrong direction (you support January 6, no?).  Yanukovich had his men fire on protestors, killing many, which turned public opinion even further against him.

 

Thought the opposition was still willing to work with him as President, and signed an agreement with him, that same night he fled the country... to Russia.  He could have stayed on and just, you know, stop killing his own people.  But he chose to flee to Russia.

 

So, here is my question -- do you really think Russia wasn't meddling in Ukrainian politics as well and what makes U.S.' attempts to influence the outcome a "coup" but Russia's attempts OK?  Especially when most Ukrainians did want to move toward the West?

[ChicagoExpat]

4 minutes ago, jas007 said:

Both countries?  Ukraine and Russia. And as I understood Trump's initial thinking, the idea was for the USA and Russia to take and mine the mineral deposits spanning both countries and share in the proceeds. Russia gets a cut and the US take's its share as repayment for the money invested in the war effort.  

 

The situation reminds me of the scene in The Godfather where Sollozo meets with the Godfather in a bid to finance his drug business.  In exchange for the Godfather's support, Sollozo says he'll "take care of the Tattaglias out of his end."  

 

The same kind of deal is suggested here. Ruthless and transactional.  In the process, Ukraine loses.  It may not be fair, but where is it written that the world is a fair place? 

 

I apologize if I haven't kept up with the latest news.  In my mind, this war ended long ago.  

 

 

I could be wrong but I didn't think Russia was anywhere in this -- that's the point.  But we haven't seen the agreement.

[frank83628]

8 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

The latter.  I gave you a straight answer, and hope to be surprised by you in return.

 

Let's talk about Yanukovich -- key to the "coup" you mention.  He was elected on a platform of reform and strengthening ties to the EU.  Which he was doing... until suddenly he wasn't.  He changed his approach midterm to a pro-Russian one and backed out of an overwhelmingly popular agreement to associate with the EU, and that's when protests started.  Because that's what free people do when they feel their government is going in the wrong direction (you support January 6, no?).  Yanukovich had his men fire on protestors, killing many, which turned public opinion even further against him.

 

Thought the opposition was still willing to work with him as President, and signed an agreement with him, that same night he fled the country... to Russia.  He could have stayed on and just, you know, stop killing his own people.  But he chose to flee to Russia.

 

So, here is my question -- do you really think Russia wasn't meddling in Ukrainian politics as well and what makes U.S.' attempts to influence the outcome a "coup" but Russia's attempts OK?  Especially when most Ukrainians did want to move toward the West?

Ahh, killing his own people, Why do they always do that...  so bizarre, Saddam was doing it, Assad was doing it, Gaddafi was doing it, Putin.... isn't it funny how all the Wests 'enemies' do such things, good job the USA is there to save them.

[ChicagoExpat]

3 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Ahh, killing his own people, Why do they always do that...  so bizarre, Saddam was doing it, Assad was doing it, Gaddafi was doing it, Putin.... isn't it funny how all the Wests 'enemies' do such things, good job the USA is there to save them.

I knew you wouldn't answer the question.  You're pathetic, Fact-Free Frank.

[frank83628]

12 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

The latter.  I gave you a straight answer, and hope to be surprised by you in return.

 

Let's talk about Yanukovich -- key to the "coup" you mention.  He was elected on a platform of reform and strengthening ties to the EU.  Which he was doing... until suddenly he wasn't.  He changed his approach midterm to a pro-Russian one and backed out of an overwhelmingly popular agreement to associate with the EU, and that's when protests started.  Because that's what free people do when they feel their government is going in the wrong direction (you support January 6, no?).  Yanukovich had his men fire on protestors, killing many, which turned public opinion even further against him.

 

Thought the opposition was still willing to work with him as President, and signed an agreement with him, that same night he fled the country... to Russia.  He could have stayed on and just, you know, stop killing his own people.  But he chose to flee to Russia.

 

So, here is my question -- do you really think Russia wasn't meddling in Ukrainian politics as well and what makes U.S.' attempts to influence the outcome a "coup" but Russia's attempts OK?  Especially when most Ukrainians did want to move toward the West?

Ukraine is on russias border, the US borders are 1000s of miles away.

so how do you describe it, meddling in ukraines politics or looking after ____ interests? Because there seems to be a diffence in the way its worded, depending on the side you're on.

 

[save the frogs]

12 hours ago, BLMFem said:

If you PM me your phone number I'll call you and let you know, Frogs.

You creep me out, man. 

 

[frank83628]

10 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

You creep me out, man. 

 

He/they/her was actually making a thinly veiled threat towards you, its what trolls and keyboard warriors do, especiay when they lose the argument.

Its the same as him saying 'give me your address and I come an and see you?, basically threatening to beat you up from his keyboard 

[thesetat]

5 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

He/they/her was actually making a thinly veiled threat towards you, its what trolls and keyboard warriors do, especiay when they lose the argument.

Its the same as him saying 'give me your address and I come an and see you?, basically threatening to beat you up from his keyboard 

Maybe he wanted his phone number to go give him a kiss and show him he is a strong BLMFem? Not everyone wants violence through the keyboard. He might be lonely. 

[RayC]

21 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Ukraine is on russias border, the US borders are 1000s of miles away.

so how do you describe it, meddling in ukraines politics or looking after ____ interests? Because there seems to be a diffence in the way its worded, depending on the side you're on.

 

 

It is almost certainly true to say that the US government at the time of the Maïdan Revolution preferred an EU-focussed Ukraine to a Russian focussed one and perhaps the US stoked the fire, but to claim that the US instigated the uprising is nonsense.

 

As Chicagoexpat correctly points out, the catalyst for the Maidan Revolution was Yanukovich's refusal to sign the 'EU Association Agreement' - which was a central part of his manifesto - but instead, under pressure from Moscow, attempt to tie Ukraine's economic future to Russia. (Over 80% of Ukrainians supported the idea of joining the EU). Putin subsequently used the Maïdan as an excuse to increase Russia's interference in Ukraine which ultimately resulted in the invasion. The blame for the war falls squarely on Putin's shoulders. It really is as simple as that.

 

Why Putin felt so strongly about Ukraine's tilt to the West is another matter. Concern about the effect on Russia's economy? Fear of potential NATO aggression? Perhaps. However, imo - and there is strong supporting evidence - a more likely explanation is that Putin falls into the 'Tsarist school' which does not believe that Ukraine is a sovereign country in its' own right, but is simply a part of a 'Greater Russia'

 

The attached link gives a very good overview of the historical context of the Russian - Ukrainian relationship 

 

https://theconversation.com/why-putin-has-such-a-hard-time-accepting-ukrainian-sovereignty-174029

 

[thesetat]

1 minute ago, RayC said:

Why Putin felt so strongly about Ukraine's tilt to the West is another matter. Concern about the effect on Russia's economy? Fear of potential NATO aggression?

I could be mistaken but i remember reading that the reason for this was simply because he did not want NATO on his border with the ability to have serious firepower against his country.

[RayC]

14 minutes ago, thesetat said:

I could be mistaken but i remember reading that the reason for this was simply because he did not want NATO on his border with the ability to have serious firepower against his country.

 

Imo simply an excuse.

 

As I explained in my previous post, the Maïdan uprising was the catalyst for the current situation, and that was about EU - not NATO - membership.

 

There was no serious possibility of Ukraine being granted NATO membership in the foreseeable future when the Maïdan uprising took place in 2014.

[BLMFem]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

Oh look, AN tough talk, pretty sure that breaks the rules, also not very Lady like!

Tough talk? 😂

[BLMFem]

53 minutes ago, thesetat said:

Maybe he wanted his phone number to go give him a kiss and show him he is a strong BLMFem? Not everyone wants violence through the keyboard. He might be lonely. 

That's what I thought as well since he was asking me personal questions.

[save the frogs]

11 hours ago, BLMFem said:

That's what I thought as well since he was asking me personal questions.

 

Is that really you in your avatar?

Be honest. 

 

[BLMFem]

1 minute ago, save the frogs said:

 

Is that really you in your avatar?

Be honest. 

 

Oh god, not another MAGA faithful becoming aware of yearnings long repressed. A couple of weeks ago another of your kind started obsessing about my "silky chest hair".

Go figure!

[frank83628]

26 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

That's what I thought as well since he was asking me personal questions.

Nicely backtracked 

[BLMFem]

11 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

Nicely backtracked 

BTW, you never answered my question regarding your view on the deal made between President Zelensky and Trump?

What say you?

[riclag]

8 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

"Meanwhile, foreign investments accounted for more than half of the U.S. total investments since Trump entered office – roughly $3.3 trillion. Foreign investments in U.S. industries came from the United Arab Emirates, Japan, Saudi Arabia and India.

 

Among those countries, the United Arab Emirates invested the most, committing last month to a $1.4 trillion investment framework targeting U.S. based industries over a ten-year period. The other countries that have agreed to invest in U.S. products and industries include Japan, which has committed $1 trillion, Saudi Arabia, which has committed $600 billion, and India, with $310 billion."

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/foreign-domestic-investments-totaling-over-5t-under-trump-adds-451k-jobs-americans

 

Apple alone for $500 billion from a total of $1.8 trillion from private investors.

Lets not forget the effects of winning!

All exposed,

They/ them  also love wars, with no sense of diplomatic urgency to

sign a mutual peace treaty!

 

[Jingthing]

This tracks very closely with my reading of the deal.

 

 

[riclag]

Op don’t expect they / them to recognize any good deed by Trump, 

remember , he could find a cure to Cancer and they/ them would reject it!