Leaving food out

[KhaoHom]

People that say that Thai street food is unhealthy or unhygienic really are just covering.. the truth of the matter is they don't like Thai food.

[KhaoHom]

6 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Tough people these Thais.

 

Yes and no. My wife is 15 years my junior and she's sick more than me. In fact, she's sick today with this headache naseua thing which comes every 6 to 8 weeks. I get a little 'summer cold' every two years and a big cold maybe every five years.

 

I'm very lucky, but it's not magic Thai blood.

[connda]

My mom drove it into our heads that anything left out longer than a couple of hours would develop botulism and kill you for sure.
it was pretty late in life when I dispelled that particular phobia.  I often make soups and stews which I'll leave out overnight and often into the day and then pack it up in tupperware and put the rest in the refrigerator.  Sometimes I'll just reheat it to boiling and let it sit another day.  That's generally in the cool season where I may not put stuff away until day two.  Heck, soups and stews always taste better after they sit.

With that said, I've had "food poisoning" twice in Thailand.  Both times after eating at one of the internationally known fast food restaurants whom I will not mention due to Thailand Draconian defamation laws. A lot of our food gets left out.  We never get sick from Mom's Dreaded Botulism From Food That Has Been Out Of Refrigeration Overnight <screams, moans>.

[connda]

And I've never been sick after eating Thai street food or Thai restaurant food. 

[save the frogs]

12 hours ago, Quentin Zen said:

not sure if mentioned, but why wake up to a colony of ants and a billion other animals eating your food.   

exactly.

there's things that will enter your abode at the smell of food.

i am even getting rid of the large garbage bags and replacing them with tiny ones. I empty the garbage every day. 

 

[connda]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Time to educate your wife.

 

https://rightasrain.uwmedicine.org/body/food/leftover-rice-bacillus-cereus-food-poisoning#:~:text=Reheated rice syndrome is food,than a couple of hours.

"YOU'LL DIE FOR SURE.  MUHHHAAAHHHAAA!!!"
Westerners have some of the most finicky food fetishes of any people on this planet.  They all had mum like mine! 
"KEEP TEMPTING FATE AND YOU'LL DIE FOR SURE!!! EHHHHHEEEEEHHEEEHAAA!!!"

Then most people in third-world and developing countries should be dead.  Instead?  They reproduce unlike Westerners.

"YOU'LL GET WORMS!!!  EKKKKKKKKKKK!!!"

[connda]

1 hour ago, Stocky said:

Other way round I think, the modern Western fixation with trying to live in a totally sanitised environment means westerners have lost that immunity or resilience to bacteria.

Exactly.  I had gastrointestinal issues for the first year I was here.  Never got sick, but dealt with the trots a lot.  Cleared up after a year.  17 years later - no problems.  But I do find it amusing when Western expats in Thailand bring the subject up.  I really don't doubt that those who are still "clean freaks" will come down with food borne illnesses often enough because they have little immunity to the local bacteria. 

[connda]

1 hour ago, Quentin Zen said:

not sure if mentioned, but why wake up to a colony of ants and a billion other animals eating your food.   

It's compassionate Buddhism to share your food with other less fortunate critters.  Btw, we're not in the dark ages here.  The food may be left out but at least in our home it's covered.

[connda]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

Yep, I have read/often heard that since parents stopped babies/youngsters from eating DIRT, they miss out on certain antibodies within their system.  If in doubt of experts, just look at the new Health Secretary in the US.  I wonder what he would recommend.

Read the sections of Jame Harriot novels where he talks about "The Knacker's Kids."

[scubascuba3]

Those little gecko things will be having a nibble too

[bendejo]

1 hour ago, Stocky said:

Other way round I think, the modern Western fixation with trying to live in a totally sanitised environment means westerners have lost that immunity or resilience to bacteria

 

In India was around the backpacker bunch (1970s, they weren't called that then) and there was a lot of hepatitis about.  Takes a while to incubate, then the symptoms appear.  Most of those who caught it had a miserable time but recovered.  It was unfortunately common that the Japanese died from it.  Perhaps that country is achieving a sanitized environment, and this was a consequence.

 

[Hawaiian]

7 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Those little gecko things will be having a nibble too

Like freshwater turtles, they carry salmonella.

[Cameroni]

45 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

Tough people these Thais.

 

Not in my experience, a little anal and the girls make a spectacle of themselves.

[connda]

40 minutes ago, KhaoHom said:

 

While I don't roll around in mud along BKK klong I don't do anything to stay clear of things that might have some health hygiene issues. I'm 60++ and never sick. I didn't even get COVID .

 

Exposure to the world is best antibody!

 

PS whenever my wife heats up food she always throws it in the microwave and turns it on high. I really object to it because some large dish can end up getting fully cooked by three or four times.

 

I often eat street food that is been sitting out all day and not warmed just scooped off a tray and thrown on a plate with some rice. I never have a problem or I should say very rarely.

 

One thing I do avoid is raw seafood and raw beef although I really like them both. The exception being sushi which is served in a proper restaurant. Seems like every time that I dabble with raw seafood I end up with a bit of the squirts. I like raw beef salad and Thai larp raw beef but I'm more concerned about parasites that I am about some sort of time / temperature abuse.

 

Just eat it, get used to it l, love it.  Thai food almost as good as Italian but much less carbs. So yummy.

Ditto. Undercooked or raw beef is tapeworm territory.  I give it a pass.  If you like your beef rare to raw, then best to be taking a anthelmintic proprolaxis.
Raw seafood.  God I Love It - sushi. One of my fondest time of my life was visits to Japan and trips to Kaiten Zushis (Sushi on converter belt restaurant.) or going to sushi bars when I was on travel and could expense it - Great stuff but I will only eat it at know japanese restaurants with sushi bars. I'm pretty picky about the Thai versions.  There's probably one of my few food phobias.  Regarding worms?  I do anthelmintics proprolaxis, ie, I take worm meds along with my dogs and cats.  I've got a lot of animals and worms happen.  So I'm not worried about worms from raw seafood. 

[connda]

38 minutes ago, KhaoHom said:

 

Yes and no. My wife is 15 years my junior and she's sick more than me. In fact, she's sick today with this headache naseua thing which comes every 6 to 8 weeks. I get a little 'summer cold' every two years and a big cold maybe every five years.

 

I'm very lucky, but it's not magic Thai blood.

I've been here 18 years and have had a cold twice. Flu - zero.  Covid - once (mild).  I just don't get respiratory infections at all like I did annually (or more often) back in the temperate latitudes of the US.  Don't mask up, don't take shot.  Everyone has an immune system - let it do its job.

[jaideedave]

I put an end to her leaving food out overnight straight away.It immediately caused a rodent/mouse issue.I never had the problem before that.

It took a few of the sticky mats to catch them all. I got her to dispose of the mat with the still struggling mickey on it and she was cured.

They just don't know any better.

Small ants can also be an issue in Thai kitchens. A good fix was a simple peppermint oil mixed with a little water.Spray and wipe down the counters with that.Worked a treat and they disappeared.Available on Lazada/Shopee cheap.

 

[Hawaiian]

6 minutes ago, connda said:

I've been here 18 years and have had a cold twice. Flu - zero.  Covid - once (mild).  I just don't get respiratory infections at all like I did annually (or more often) back in the temperate latitudes of the US.  Don't mask up, don't take shot.  Everyone has an immune system - let it do its job.

Not everyone has a strong immune system as you do.  And as we age our immune systems also age (weaken).

[connda]

16 minutes ago, bendejo said:

 

In India was around the backpacker bunch (1970s, they weren't called that then) and there was a lot of hepatitis about.  Takes a while to incubate, then the symptoms appear.  Most of those who caught it had a miserable time but recovered.  It was unfortunately common that the Japanese died from it.  Perhaps that country is achieving a sanitized environment, and this was a consequence.

 

Hepatitis is contracted from poop, blood, and semen.  Not cooked food that was left out.

[connda]

4 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Not everyone has a strong immune system as you do.  And as we age our immune systems also age (weaken).

73.  It's a given.  Something will eventually kill you.  Why worry.  Deal with it when it happens.

[bendejo]

One rule to live by is if it has tomato in it don't even think about eating it if it's been around too long. 

 

[connda]

Just now, bendejo said:

One rule to live by is if it has tomato in it don't even think about eating it if it's been around too long. 

 

All my stews and soups have tomatoes in them.  If it begins to percolate, then I probably won't eat it.  Otherwise I've never had a problem.

[samtam]

2 hours ago, Quentin Zen said:

not sure if mentioned, but why wake up to a colony of ants and a billion other animals eating your food.   

 

I don't leave any food out, or unwashed used dishes, but after dinner, and before I go to bed, I take a glass of water from the fridge for my nightstand. When I go into the kitchen (which is without light in my absence) there have recently been a host of very small cockroaches, (about the size of a thumbnail, or smaller), which scatter when I turn the light on. In the morning there is no trace of them, despite the "cockroach motel" poison left in various places, which they are supposed to consume and return to their nest, killing off the colony. They have diminished in number since the motel was laid out, but for every one we see there are probably 100 lurking somewhere. They are probably attracted to any miniscule crumbs or liquid that have accumulated from the preparation of dinner and the consumption thereof. And the kitchen floors and counters are thoroughly cleaned every day.

[Bert got kinky]

 

On the same note, has anyone noticed how long processed foods last here?

I have found that Farmhouse bread crap in the back of our fridge, which is well out of date but still edible(?).

Milk is the same, it seems to last for ages providing it is refrigerated.

When I was growing up in the UK, you would have been lucky to get two days out of bread and milk

 

Their processed foods must be jam-packed with preservatives.

 

 

 

[ronster]

If it isn't freshly cooked I ain't eating it .

My problem with the habit of leaving food out is it attracts flies and more annoyingly ants .

[sungod]

Next step, dont take ice in drinks......

[Equatorial]

There are mostly two factors at work here. 

 

1/ Most importantly, the level of harmful bacteria depends on a number of factors. Most importantly, does the food get contaminated at all? Secondly, how large is the bacteria colony? Just a million or two, or billions? Also, when, i.e. right after it's placed outside? Worst case scenario, a few dozen flies contaminate the food with a huge colony of bacteria, right after the food is placed outside. In that case, the levels of bacteria after 8 or 16 hours may pose significant risk. I've seen a cooked piece of chicken left outside crawling with larvae after mere 8 hours. OTOH, it is indeed common to leave cooked food outside, and 99% of the time people eating it are just fine. 

 

2/ Immunity. A person who often ingests bacteria with improperly stored food may develop a level of immunity, and a moderate amount of bacteria may not cause any symptoms, or very light ones. But Thais do get sick from the food, they just don't make the connection. 

 

Thai street food is rarely undercooked, mostly overcooked, and all of the bacteria is dead. As long as it served while fresh, that is not the issue. It is "unhealthy" mostly because of the burned oil that's been reused for a week. And of course a possibility of contamination by the vendor who may not have access to clean water to wash their hands properly. 

[rwill]

My wifes family and relatives often leave food out overnight.  I think the chance is there for bacteria to grow but doesn't necessarily mean it will.  Leaving cooked chicken out is probably safer than leaving raw chicken out and then cooking it.

 

Look at the fresh markets where the meat is just left out in the heat.  They don't seem to have too much problems from that either.

 

I know I was raised being told don't give dogs bones it will kill them.  When I first retired here I would tell people they were going to kill their dogs giving them bones.  They would just give me funny looks.  After a short period I realised there are millions of dogs eating bones, of every type, everyday here and they aren't all dying.  So while there may be a chance of a bone hurting a dog it doesn't happen that often.

 

Same with leaving food out.

[Regyai]

4 hours ago, Stocky said:

Same here, though food isn't left out on the table, ants would be at it by morning, but we have a cabinet in the kitchen, metal sides with ventilation mesh, glass doors, the legs sit in little pots you fill with water to keep the ants away. Uneaten food goes in there, used up next day. In 20 years no one's died.

 

 

Remember the eye-opening experience decades ago when I first encountered this process. A myriad of dishes were served up at meal time, and any leftovers went into the same type of ventilated cabinet, from where they re-emerged next mealtime and so on until they were eaten.

[Will B Good]

SWMBO relies totally on the sniff test.....particularly for rice.

 

I've only been hospitalised once.

[Sheryl]

Far from being immune   diarrheal episides from food are extremely common among Thais and definitely linked to  improper good storage, which is also very common. In both cases, also true in neighboring countries. Many Thais do not go a  week without a brief episode of diarrhea...so common it is viewed as normal.  Which does not mean that it is,  or that it is harmless. 

 

The problem is that refrigerators were traditionally  thought of as serving the purpose of making things cold, and thus used only for things one wants to consume cold. Only the unusually well educated know that refrigeration retards food spoilage. 

 

Add to this traditional practice of buying from a fresh  market daily ...Which made unrefrigerated storage more feasible (but still not ideal). 

 

Of course times have changed, many households everyone works, people increasingly buy in larger amounts from supermarkets etc but old habits die hard, edpecially when there is limited knowledge of the relevant  science. 

 

Obviously these are generalizations and more educated Thais differ.  But people have grown up with the idea that a refrigerator is a luxury item designed to make things cold as a taste preference (hence so few large ones) while in the West they have long been understood as a means of preventing contamination and spoilage.