If there is no life after death...

[connda]

If you ever dabbled in chemically altering your consciousness, you begin the first steps to question the nature of consciousness: what it is, how it arises, what are its boundaries.  Most people never take the step. Nor do you need to.  You can accomplish that investigating through meditative practices.  Granted, it takes longer, but you arrives at some interesting insights.

I was raised Catholic but I always found the religion to be a rather grotesque death-cult. Especially the “stations of the cross” which are predominant in all Catholic churches, where the murder of a man preaching compassion by torture and crucifixion is glorified. “But He arose from the dead!” Of course, and it was codified under Roman Emperor Constantine during the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century AD. After that - “Believe it or else.” I’ve never responded well to threats. I gave it up as a teenager around the same time as I had an NDE.

In my late teens I began exploring Eastern religions. And why not, as they were an exploration into consciousness.  I began meditation practice over 50 years ago and later sort of naturally gravitated to Theravada Buddhism which is the form practiced in Thailand, which meant taking up the study of Buddhist texts and sutras, as well as commentaries in various Buddhist traditions including the Vajrayana (Tibetan) tradition.
 
One of the things that you can subjectively verify for yourself.  There are various states of consciousness which can be encountered in meditation.  Some are incredibly profound, like watching what we call "self" fabricate itself.  Buddhist texts provide a road-map of consciousness. If you spend most of your life practicing meditation, you will encounter the "landmarks" which delineate various states of consciousness from the gross to the most subtle.  For all of the skepticism by those who "embrace science," meditation is quite empirical in an anecdotal manner. Granted, it's subjective, you can't measure states of consciousness directly although you can implicitly and indirectly inferred by the state of the body while in meditation, just like you can measure bodily reactions during sleep. Which is why I have no problem fathoming what occurs during near-death experiences.  I nearly died when I was a teenager.  I remember the effect on consciousness crystal clear.  Decades later I found that the shifts in consciousness that I experienced mapped exactly to the stages of death outlined in the Tibetan Buddhism commentaries on dying.  That was a rather profound eye-opening.  

 

So what does it mean?  It means that I could empirically verify that the stages of dying according to Tibetan Buddhist texts. If I can do that, then I have "faith" that in the reality of rest of the stages of death as outlined in the Bardo Thodol (Tibetan Book of the Dead) as that "faith" is experiential, it's based on my previous experiences with NDE and meditation. It's not the blind faith you find in other religions, i.e., "I believe because it's written in my religion's scriptures which I’m told to believe by my religious leaders – or else."  I believe because I can empirically verify to myself that my experiences match the "landmarks" of consciousness found in Buddhist text.
 
So I have no problem with those who believe that consciousness snuffs out with bodily death. If that’s the case, fine – why worry? 

Eat, drink, and be merry.  Embrace hedonism and greed. Screw morality.  Why not?  Ya only live once, 'eh? Then you wonder why the psychopaths in organizations like the WEF gravitate to trans-humanism where they actively seek a "scientific" way to transfer their consciousness to a machine.  Gawd - talk about a living Hell.  And well deserved.  In a sort of Philip K. Dick manner I don't discount that eventually man will create semi-synthetic life, i.e., androids, and those life forms may actually be capable of sentient, consciousness.  But I seriously doubt that consciousness can be mechanically transferred from one life form to another. Yet the same people who believe that consciousness winks out at death, also harbor hope that a mechanical method of consciousness transfer can be developed.  The irony of holding those two disparate ideas is rather amusing.

 

But though my own anecdotal experiences, I don’t buy the nihilistic view that consciousness winks out at bodily death any more than I buy the view that Big Daddy in the Sky is going to throw all non-believers into a pit of fire forever and ever. So I take a very Buddhist view of the eternal nature of consciousness and the continuity of consciousness from life to life across a pantheon of sentient beings. And as a Buddhist, I attempt to take the steps to break that cycle. Dualistic consciousness as we experience it becomes irrelevant once the cycle of birth and death is broken. But that’s a whole different conversation. 

 

 

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

The church has also has missionaries who have taken chances with their lives, to spread the word of God, saving many souls from whatever damnation there might be. Every business has done harm and good, especially politics.

What religious have to understand, you can't save anyone from damnation, only create platforms for abuse and give people guilt where no guilt should be given. 

 

They have done more harm in the name of belief than good in those matters. 

 

Burning and torture people in the name of God to save them ? 

 

Psychological terror

[fredwiggy]

1 hour ago, novanova said:

That is "The Argument of First Cause", which was debunked over 300 years ago.

 

Are you really saying that an entity with incredible powers must be the cause of the universe? So, what is the cause of that astounding entity?

 

If you hadn't had your brains pickled by religious lunatics, you would see the irrationality your position

And if you hadn't had a bad experience in life, where you lost someone and blamed God, or had parents who were also non believers, likely because of the same reason, you might accept the possibility there is a God, and he has his reasons for things you can't understand. I've never been brainwashed, preferring to believe because of common sense and the fact a universe had to have a creation other than of itself, which is being brainwashed by some scientists guesses. 

 

That you and others expend so much energy trying to convince others to believe your way, is naive, as you aren't going to change believers beliefs. No science has debunked anything about God. We can't prove he exists and non believers can't prove he doesn't. You'll find out soon enough.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Hummin said:

What religious have to understand, you can't save anyone from damnation, only create platforms for abuse and give people guilt where no guilt should be given. 

 

They have done more harm in the name of belief than good in those matters. 

 

Burning and torture people in the name of God to save them ? 

 

Psychological terror

Like I said, some twist religion to their own agendas, and to agendas of others they trust. In the name of God doesn't mean he approves.

[novanova]

11 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

The church has also has missionaries who have taken chances with their lives, to spread the word of God, saving many souls from whatever damnation there might be. Every business has done harm and good, especially politics.

Incredible how you go around in circles, refusing to step back and evaluate the evidence.

 

There is as much evidence for damnation as there is for a god - zero. Why do you insist in clutching on to nonsensical, fact-free opinions?

 

Here is an example of the stupidity of religion:

Malaria kills about a million infants a year. The infants cannot have knowingly sinned. Now, god could, by his fiat, make malaria harmless. He does not do so. The only rational conclusion is that he wishes to slaughter millions of infants. He is, by definition, the world''s greatest serial-killer.

 

In a sane world. people would say, "Well, such a god is a vile entity; I will have nothing to do with nonsense like that". But they don't, because they have been brainwashed as small children and cannot think clearly.

 

Meanwhile, you maintain that missionaries save lives by telling idiotic stories! Wow.

[Lacessit]

50 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Faith is what keeps many acting better than if they had nothing to believe in. many do wrong in life, and change for the better because of that faith. No faith or belief in God, imagine the crimes committed.

It's a conceit of religions of all stripes, that they all have the high ground when it comes to morality. It's BS, most of our value systems come from our

parents as role models.

 

Would you like me to start listing the crimes committed in the name of religion and faith?

[jas007]

Does everyone know who Kurt Vonnegut is?

 

He wrote a novel called "Cat's Cradle."  I'm not sure of the exact quote, but the basic premise of it is that human beings are just mud, up walking around and observing the universe. Observing God's creation.  

 

It makes sense, when you think about it.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fredwiggy]

12 minutes ago, novanova said:

Incredible how you go around in circles, refusing to step back and evaluate the evidence.

 

There is as much evidence for damnation as there is for a god - zero. Why do you insist in clutching on to nonsensical, fact-free opinions?

 

Here is an example of the stupidity of religion:

Malaria kills about a million infants a year. The infants cannot have knowingly sinned. Now, god could, by his fiat, make malaria harmless. He does not do so. The only rational conclusion is that he wishes to slaughter millions of infants. He is, by definition, the world''s greatest serial-killer.

 

In a sane world. people would say, "Well, such a god is a vile entity; I will have nothing to do with nonsense like that". But they don't, because they have been brainwashed as small children and cannot think clearly.

 

Meanwhile, you maintain that missionaries save lives by telling idiotic stories! Wow.

What evidence? Why would you insist on clutching to nonsensical fact-free opinions? Do you not realize the major fact of all of this. Everyone dies. In one day or 100+ years but we all die. Forever is quite a bit longer than 100+ years. We aren't meant to last forever. Why do we only last so long? 

 

That so much sh*t happens in this world is all the more reason to believe there is something after this, but not that we become one with a universe that all of a sudden just came into being,, as Buddha had you believe. Buddha himself didn't say there wasn't a God, but that he felt we can do it all by ourselves, which we can't and why would God exist if everyone believed that way? Thinking others are brainwashed but you and others that believe what you do aren't is naivete. 

 

Mosquitoes are a bane on life, but they also help. That they spread disease is wrong of course, but again, do you plan on living forever or hope there is something beyond this sh*tty world? If this was a paradise we wouldn't have a reason to believe in God. I question why some things happen as does every other believer, but again, we aren't supposed to look at this besides a temporary testing ground.

[jas007]

18 minutes ago, connda said:

If you ever dabbled in chemically altering your consciousness, you begin the first steps to question the nature of consciousness: what it is, how it arises, what are its boundaries.  Most people never take the step. Nor do you need to.  You can accomplish that investigating through meditative practices.  Granted, it takes longer, but you arrives at some interesting insights.

I was raised Catholic but I always found the religion to be a rather grotesque death-cult. Especially the “stations of the cross” which are predominant in all Catholic churches, where the murder of a man preaching compassion by torture and crucifixion is glorified. “But He arose from the dead!” Of course, and it was codified under Roman Emperor Constantine during the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century AD. After that - “Believe it or else.” I’ve never responded well to threats. I gave it up as a teenager around the same time as I had an NDE.

In my late teens I began exploring Eastern religions. And why not, as they were an exploration into consciousness.  I began meditation practice over 50 years ago and later sort of naturally gravitated to Theravada Buddhism which is the form practiced in Thailand, which meant taking up the study of Buddhist texts and sutras, as well as commentaries in various Buddhist traditions including the Vajrayana (Tibetan) tradition.
 
One of the things that you can subjectively verify for yourself.  There are various states of consciousness which can be encountered in meditation.  Some are incredibly profound, like watching what we call "self" fabricate itself.  Buddhist texts provide a road-map of consciousness. If you spend most of your life practicing meditation, you will encounter the "landmarks" which delineate various states of consciousness from the gross to the most subtle.  For all of the skepticism by those who "embrace science," meditation is quite empirical in an anecdotal manner. Granted, it's subjective, you can't measure states of consciousness directly although you can implicitly and indirectly inferred by the state of the body while in meditation, just like you can measure bodily reactions during sleep. Which is why I have no problem fathoming what occurs during near-death experiences.  I nearly died when I was a teenager.  I remember the effect on consciousness crystal clear.  Decades later I found that the shifts in consciousness that I experienced mapped exactly to the stages of death outlined in the Tibetan Buddhism commentaries on dying.  That was a rather profound eye-opening.  

 

So what does it mean?  It means that I could empirically verify that the stages of dying according to Tibetan Buddhist texts. If I can do that, then I have "faith" that in the reality of rest of the stages of death as outlined in the Bardo Thodol (Tibetan Book of the Dead) as that "faith" is experiential, it's based on my previous experiences with NDE and meditation. It's not the blind faith you find in other religions, i.e., "I believe because it's written in my religion's scriptures which I’m told to believe by my religious leaders – or else."  I believe because I can empirically verify to myself that my experiences match the "landmarks" of consciousness found in Buddhist text.
 
So I have no problem with those who believe that consciousness snuffs out with bodily death. If that’s the case, fine – why worry? 

Eat, drink, and be merry.  Embrace hedonism and greed. Screw morality.  Why not?  Ya only live once, 'eh? Then you wonder why the psychopaths in organizations like the WEF gravitate to trans-humanism where they actively seek a "scientific" way to transfer their consciousness to a machine.  Gawd - talk about a living Hell.  And well deserved.  In a sort of Philip K. Dick manner I don't discount that eventually man will create semi-synthetic life, i.e., androids, and those life forms may actually be capable of sentient, consciousness.  But I seriously doubt that consciousness can be mechanically transferred from one life form to another. Yet the same people who believe that consciousness winks out at death, also harbor hope that a mechanical method of consciousness transfer can be developed.  The irony of holding those two disparate ideas is rather amusing.

 

But though my own anecdotal experiences, I don’t buy the nihilistic view that consciousness winks out at bodily death any more than I buy the view that Big Daddy in the Sky is going to throw all non-believers into a pit of fire forever and ever. So I take a very Buddhist view of the eternal nature of consciousness and the continuity of consciousness from life to life across a pantheon of sentient beings. And as a Buddhist, I attempt to take the steps to break that cycle. Dualistic consciousness as we experience it becomes irrelevant once the cycle of birth and death is broken. But that’s a whole different conversation. 

 

 

Read a book by James P. Carse called "Finite and Infinite Games."  Echoes of Eastern philosophers, such as Alan Watts.

 

I was fortunate enough to have the guy for a teacher, back in the day.  He's dead now.  I think you can see some of his lectures on YouTube.   

[fredwiggy]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

It's a conceit of religions of all stripes, that they all have the high ground when it comes to morality. It's BS, most of our value systems come from our

parents as role models.

 

Would you like me to start listing the crimes committed in the name of religion and faith?

I've mentioned this before. People twist religion into their own, or others narratives. Some Muslims say they'll have many virgins dying while killing others. That has others believing them because they for some reason trusted them, likely because they were enlisted young. Think of all the crimes that would be committed if none believed.

[giddyup]

3 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Yes, there are many who have died and came back, telling of a beautiful place much like earth. Especially children who have told of relatives they never knew anything about that they saw there. It's hopeful that, since God can make a universe from his mind and everything in it, that he could also make a place with a body that doesn't age, where we can enjoy much of what we enjoy here, all without the bad things that are here and people who are only here to hurt or gain for profit, taking advantage of others. I like to think we can come back to earth the way it was before man was put here.

If you come back you haven't really died.

[novanova]

Just now, fredwiggy said:

What evidence? Why would you insist on clutching to nonsensical fact-free opinions? Do you not realize the major fact of all of this. Everyone dies. In one day or 100+ years but we all die. Forever is quite a bit longer than 100+ years. We aren't meant to last forever. Why do we only last so long? 

 

That so much sh*t happens in this world is all the more reason to believe there is something after this, but not that we become one with a universe that all of a sudden just came into being,, as Buddha had you believe. Buddha himself didn't say there wasn't a God, but that he felt we can do it all by ourselves, which we can't and why would God exist if everyone believed that way? Thinking others are brainwashed but you and others that believe what you do aren't is naivete. 

 

Mosquitoes are a bane on life, but they also help. That they spread disease is wrong of course, but again, do you plan on living forever or hope there is something beyond this sh*tty world? If this was a paradise we wouldn't have a reason to believe in God. I question why some things happen as does every other belieer, but again, we aren't supposed to look at this besides a temporary testing ground.

Gibberish.

 

Why are you making straw-man arguments?

- that we all die has no bearing on anything

- no sane person plans on living forever

- what lunatic says there has to be a god because this world is flawed? Irrational

 

You lack the ability to scrub the whiteboard clean and start from scratch. You want to hold on to absurd waffle because you find it pleasing, not for any sound reason. That's why you had no choice but to ignore the "malaria" argument. It is a rock-solid refutation of a decent god. Either he doesn't exist, or he is a deranged serial-killer. No getting out of that one, is there?

 

 

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

If you come back you haven't really died.

Just the body we now have does. If we can be given this body, and all of the other things the universe has by God, we surely can be given one thaqt lasts forever with no problems.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, novanova said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_by_country

Sexual abuse by priests is a problem created by the Catholic Church itself. It steadfastly refuses to acknowledge that fact.

 

The second Lateran Council of 1139 AD made celibacy mandatory for all priests. Officially to promote piety, in reality to protect church property from matrimonial and inheritance claims.

 

Any psychiatrist will tell you when celibacy is enforced on mature males, it is statistically inevitable a certain percentage of those males will have their normal sex drives diverted to something else, and not in a good way.

 

The Catholic Church is a very wealthy organization. In the state of Victoria, Australia alone, its assets are estimated to be $9 billion.

 

Celibacy for priests arises from the basest of motives - money.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, novanova said:

Gibberish.

 

Why are you making straw-man arguments?

- that we all die has no bearing on anything

- no sane person plans on living forever

- what lunatic says there has to be a god because this world is flawed? Irrational

 

You lack the ability to scrub the whiteboard clean and start from scratch. You want to hold on to absurd waffle because you find it pleasing, not for any sound reason. That's why you had no choice but to ignore the "malaria" argument. It is a rock-solid refutation of a decent god. Either he doesn't exist, or he is a deranged serial-killer. No getting out of that one, is there?

 

 

To believers, you're speaking gibberish, so leave it at that. You believe what you want, we'll believe what we want. When you die, you'll see the truth. You aren't convincing me nor anyone else there isn't a God, so why try? I'm not saying you're irrational or lack the ability to scrub the whiteboard clean and somehow start believing like you do. I'm not saying ou want to hold on to absurd waffle because you find it pleasing, nor for any sound reason. 

 

I didn't ignore the malaria argument. I said none of us lives forever, and no matter how long we live, we all die. This is a short life no matter how long it is. That we believe it's a test of sorts makes sense, that the next life is forever. That God has all of us die doesn't mean he's a serial killer. We all die anyway. His reasoning is that the next life after this is permanent and what we do here has a bearing on where we go after we die. You believe what you want, the believers in God believe in him. Like I said, you'll see soon enough.

[fredwiggy]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Sexual abuse by priests is a problem created by the Catholic Church itself. It steadfastly refuses to acknowledge that fact.

 

The second Lateran Council of 1139 AD made celibacy mandatory for all priests. Officially to promote piety, in reality to protect church property from matrimonial and inheritance claims.

 

Any psychiatrist will tell you when celibacy is enforced on mature males, it is statistically inevitable a certain percentage of those males will have their normal sex drives diverted to something else, and not in a good way.

 

The Catholic Church is a very wealthy organization. In the state of Victoria, Australia alone, its assets are estimated to be $9 billion.

 

Celibacy for priests arises from the basest of motives - money.

That the Catholic church tried to cover up what some did was and is wrong. It wasn't created by the church as celibacy doesn't make people look elsewhere because there aren't any women around. That's their decision. People don't become pedophiles from abstinence. It's from childhood trauma. That some priests might go into the business to be near boys is totally believable, just like how many people become policemen to control others. People who are in jail and force sex on others to control. They made that decision, as there are countless that are in jail that aren't rapists of men. What money do the priests get for celibacy? The church itself has more than it's share of gold and things yes, but not the priests themselves.

[Hummin]

24 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

What evidence? Why would you insist on clutching to nonsensical fact-free opinions? Do you not realize the major fact of all of this. Everyone dies. In one day or 100+ years but we all die. Forever is quite a bit longer than 100+ years. We aren't meant to last forever. Why do we only last so long? 

 

That so much sh*t happens in this world is all the more reason to believe there is something after this, but not that we become one with a universe that all of a sudden just came into being,, as Buddha had you believe. Buddha himself didn't say there wasn't a God, but that he felt we can do it all by ourselves, which we can't and why would God exist if everyone believed that way? Thinking others are brainwashed but you and others that believe what you do aren't is naivete. 

 

Mosquitoes are a bane on life, but they also help. That they spread disease is wrong of course, but again, do you plan on living forever or hope there is something beyond this sh*tty world? If this was a paradise we wouldn't have a reason to believe in God. I question why some things happen as does every other believer, but again, we aren't supposed to look at this besides a temporary testing ground.

Diseases and plagues is nature's way of keeping balance, and we hacked the natural law, and are now out of zynch. 

 

We where not ment to be 100 years okd, and 8 billion people on this planet. 

 

So I wondering how God explains that, and where it went wrong in evolution. As you stated earlier, God creates out of his mind. 

 

There is no logical God if there is one

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I've mentioned this before. People twist religion into their own, or others narratives. Some Muslims say they'll have many virgins dying while killing others. That has others believing them because they for some reason trusted them, likely because they were enlisted young. Think of all the crimes that would be committed if none believed.

If you are going to pretend Christians are more virtuous, I guess you are lining up for a Trump bible.

 

Studies have shown atheists and agnostics are very much underrepresented in general prison populations.

 

So how does that jibe with your assertion faith is necessary to prevent crime?

[3NUMBAS]

When I died of a heart attack back in the 70s ,my spirit was on a high place seated on a ball of light ,with light highways stretching into the distance ,my mate restarted my heart and I slid back into my body so I ddont know where my spirit would go next ,but it goes somewhere else .its not blackness for eternity .asfaik.whenyoudie it’s a nice experience,…

the view from on high is in a faded monochrome ,I could view things in 360 degrees,head motion is still possible 

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Diseases and plagues is nature's way of keeping balance, and we hacked the natural law, and are now out of zynch. 

 

We where not ment to be 100 years okd, and 8 billion people on this planet. 

 

So I wondering how God explains that, and where it went wrong in evolution. As you stated earlier, God creates out of his mind. 

 

There is no logical God if there is one

Thinking you can think like God isn't logical, as we all just see what we've already seen, and have no idea how all of this universe works, or what comes after. God created this earth to be a certain size for a reason. It wasn't meant to last more than he wanted it to. He could have easily made the earth the size of Jupiter, and it could have lasted millions of more years with the population increasing every year. This earth isn't going to last much longer the way it's going , especially with the population still increasing and the warming happening.

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

That the Catholic church tried to cover up what some did was and is wrong. It wasn't created by the church as celibacy doesn't make people look elsewhere because there aren't any women around. That's their decision. People don't become pedophiles from abstinence. It's from childhood trauma. That some priests might go into the business to be near boys is totally believable, just like how many people become policemen to control others. People who are in jail and force sex on others to control. They made that decision, as there are countless that are in jail that aren't rapists of men. What money do the priests get for celibacy? The church itself has more than it's share of gold and things yes, but not the priests themselves.

"People don't become pedophiles from abstinence. It's from childhood trauma".

 

Rubbish. Post your credentials as a psychiatrist.

[fredwiggy]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If you are going to pretend Christians are more virtuous, I guess you are lining up for a Trump bible.

 

Studies have shown atheists and agnostics are very much underrepresented in general prison populations.

 

So how does that jibe with your assertion faith is necessary to prevent crime?

Who said Christians are more virtuous than anyone? If you believe in God, we're all the same. You take away faith and belief in God, many people would do things they ordinarily wouldn't do with the fear of God and an afterlife in their thinking. Atheists and agnostics are under represented because their population is a minority already. There are more believers in the world than non.

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

Thinking you can think like God isn't logical, as we all just see what we've already seen, and have no idea how all of this universe works, or what comes after. God created this earth to be a certain size for a reason. It wasn't meant to last more than he wanted it to. He could have easily made the earth the size of Jupiter, and it could have lasted millions of more years with the population increasing every year. This earth isn't going to last much longer the way it's going , especially with the population still increasing and the warming happening.

Thinking there is a God is not logical either, in fact it is the opposite of logical.

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

You can't escape or hide your true character. Many are hypocrites, many because we're all humans who make mistakes. He knows your heart. You can't fake repenting.

If He knows my heart, then I'm in, as He is all forgiven, born sinner that I am.   Though have very little to repent, and already forgiven myself, as surely He knows.  Never hurt anyone, emotionally or physically.  Well, physically that didn't deserve it, whether simply physical defense or defense of honor...day's past.  Raised to never throw the 1st punch, and talking is always the best solution.  

 

Might not have been completely honest to an insurance company or 3 🙄

 

Actually was a Christian for a wee bit, until I realized the Bible is full of sh!t, if taken literally or almost literally.  The more I learned, the less Christian I became, down to agnostic, to now, pretty hard core Atheist 

[JAG]

4 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

 

What about reincarnation? There is plenty of evidence

After all, Cliff Richard keeps coming back the same'

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

"People don't become pedophiles from abstinence. It's from childhood trauma".

 

Rubbish. Post your credentials as a psychiatrist.

You don't have to have credentials in anything to understand it or have knowledge of it. Reading helps , making guesses or going by some other's opinions doesn't work.

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Thinking there is a God is not logical either, in fact it is the opposite of logical.

No, thinking all of the universe came to being from nothing is illogical. No proof either way, so going in circles isn't working here.

[Lacessit]

Just now, fredwiggy said:

Who said Christians are more virtuous than anyone? If you believe in God, we're all the same. You take away faith and belief in God, many people would do things they ordinarily wouldn't do with the fear of God and an afterlife in their thinking. Atheists and agnostics are under represented because their population is a minority already. There are more believers in the world than non.

You obviously understand statistics as well as a Middle Ages peasant understands an internal combustion engine.

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, KhunLA said:

If He knows my heart, then I'm in, as He is all forgiven, born sinner that I am.   Though have very little to repent, and already forgiven myself, as surely He knows.  Never hurt anyone, emotionally or physical.  Well, physically that didn't deserve it, whether simply physical defense or defense of honor...day's past.  Raised to never throw the 1st punch, and talking is always the best solution.  

 

Actually was a Christian for a wee bit, until I realized the Bible is full of sh!t, if taken literally or almost literally.  The more I learned, the less Christian I became, down to agnostic, to now, pretty hard core Atheist 

It's been said you don't get to heaven by doing good acts, so there's that.

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Thinking there is a God is not logical either, in fact it is the opposite of logical.

Creator is a better word for most, and it's possible life on earth have been designed, can't rule it completely out