It would appear to some of us that the big ugly spending bill is going to lead to a massive amount of additional debt, as Elon Musk and Ray Dalio very accurately state. Many of us would question the wisdom of giving huge tax breaks to the super wealthy when the US economy is already carrying an unsustainable amount of debt, and the interest rates required to service that debt continue to rise. It does not look like the Fed will be able to lower interest rates anytime soon, as the appetite for American debt seems to be waning dramatically, for at least a dozen good reasons. 

 

For those of us who don't buy into the sloganeering we realize that very little manufacturing is coming back to the US, five major US companies have just announced that they're shifting a significant amount of their production overseas to avoid reciprocal tariffs, and that trend is likely to just continue. In addition tourism to the US is way down, due to Trump's increasingly open hostility toward the majority of the planet. 

 

Trump, nor his substandard team seem to have absolutely no understanding of globalization and the inherent ecosystems within manufacturing, and he doesn't seem to understand why manufacturing has declined in the US over the last 55 years. It certainly didn't happen in a vacuum. 

 

I predict that Trump's attempts to impose tariffs and bring manufacturing back to the US will be a massive failure of epic proportions.

 

 

All the sudden the left is concerned about spending. How funny is that? 

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It would appear to some of us that the big ugly spending bill is going to lead to a massive amount of additional debt, as Elon Musk and Ray Dalio very accurately state. Many of us would question the wisdom of giving huge tax breaks to the super wealthy when the US economy is already carrying an unsustainable amount of debt, and the interest rates required to service that debt continue to rise. It does not look like the Fed will be able to lower interest rates anytime soon, as the appetite for American debt seems to be waning dramatically, for at least a dozen good reasons. 

 

For those of us who don't buy into the sloganeering we realize that very little manufacturing is coming back to the US, five major US companies have just announced that they're shifting a significant amount of their production overseas to avoid reciprocal tariffs, and that trend is likely to just continue. In addition tourism to the US is way down, due to Trump's increasingly open hostility toward the majority of the planet. 

 

Trump, nor his substandard team seem to have absolutely no understanding of globalization and the inherent ecosystems within manufacturing, and he doesn't seem to understand why manufacturing has declined in the US over the last 55 years. It certainly didn't happen in a vacuum. 

 

I predict that Trump's attempts to impose tariffs and bring manufacturing back to the US will be a massive failure of epic proportions.

 

 

I happy to see you lefties finally get on the debt bandwagon.   You're about 17 years to late. 

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It would appear to some of us that the big ugly spending bill is going to lead to a massive amount of additional debt, as Elon Musk and Ray Dalio very accurately state. Many of us would question the wisdom of giving huge tax breaks to the super wealthy when the US economy is already carrying and unsustainable amount of debt. 

 

For those of us who don't buy into the sloganeering we realize that manufacturing is not coming back to the US, tourism is way down, five major US companies have just announced that they're shifting a significant amount of their production overseas to avoid reciprocal tariffs, and that trend is likely to just continue.

 

I predict that Trump's attempts to impose tariffs and bring manufacturing back to the US will be a massive failure of epic proportions. He has absolutely no understanding of globalization and the inherent ecosystems within manufacturing, and he doesn't seem to understand why manufacturing has declined in the US over the last 55 years. It certainly didn't happen in a vacuum. 

 

 

I certainly agree with your final paragraph. Whilst the end result may not result in total bankruptcy, it will certainly hugely diminish the US in terms of global trade.

 

Perhaps rather like the Soviet Union in it's last two decades. Reliant on it's own production, inherently officially hostile to importing, drawn in upon itself, suspicious of ( hostile to) much of the world beyond it's borders yet basically unable to manufacture the modern products it's consumers wanted, and relatively little on offer for export to an increasingly sophisticated outside world.

19 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It would appear to some of us that the big ugly spending bill is going to lead to a massive amount of additional debt, as Elon Musk and Ray Dalio very accurately state. Many of us would question the wisdom of giving huge tax breaks to the super wealthy when the US economy is already carrying an unsustainable amount of debt, and the interest rates required to service that debt continue to rise. It does not look like the Fed will be able to lower interest rates anytime soon, as the appetite for American debt seems to be waning dramatically, for at least a dozen good reasons. 

 

For those of us who don't buy into the sloganeering we realize that very little manufacturing is coming back to the US, five major US companies have just announced that they're shifting a significant amount of their production overseas to avoid reciprocal tariffs, and that trend is likely to just continue. In addition tourism to the US is way down, due to Trump's increasingly open hostility toward the majority of the planet. 

 

Trump, nor his substandard team seem to have absolutely no understanding of globalization and the inherent ecosystems within manufacturing, and he doesn't seem to understand why manufacturing has declined in the US over the last 55 years. It certainly didn't happen in a vacuum. 

 

I predict that Trump's attempts to impose tariffs and bring manufacturing back to the US will be a massive failure of epic proportions.

 

 

 

 

1) The federal budget has been a mess for sometime now.   This is not a Trump thing.   I blame the dems for buidling a government that we can't afford.    Spending is at 23% of the GDP.   Which is unstainable.  

2) Calling this a tax break for the wealthy is a stupid narrative.   

 

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

All the sudden the left is concerned about spending. How funny is that? 

 

Methinks it's funny the left is now concerned with what Oberunterfuehrer Musk has to say.

 

 

2 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Methinks it's funny the left is now concerned with what Oberunterfuehrer Musk has to say.

 

 

And Dick Cheney

23 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It does not look like the Fed will be able to lower interest rates anytime soon, as the appetite for American debt seems to be waning dramatically, for at least a dozen good reasons. 

 

We're already paying $1.2 Trillion in debt servicing annually, which will only increase over the next couple years.  Add in the $1 Trillion defense budget, and we're gonna bust the newly emplaced debt limit.

 

"We're gonna need a higher ceiling."

1 minute ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

We're already paying $1.2 Trillion in debt servicing annually, which will only increase over the next couple years.  Add in the $1 Trillion defense budget, and we're gonna bust the newly emplaced debt limit.

 

"We're gonna need a higher ceiling."

Had only Harris been elected, we'd have a balance budget today and be paying down the debt. 

12 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

I happy to see you lefties finally get on the debt bandwagon.   You're about 17 years to late. 

Really? Went up under Bush, down under Obama, massively up under Trump. I guess it's you guys who need to "get on the debt bandwagon", agree?

And now, if the biggly big bill goes through the deficit will skyrocket, according to Musk, who calls the bill a “disgusting abomination”.

 

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/

My theory is Trump and the far right's underlying and intended aim is to ultimately put the federal government in such bad financial straights that the far right will then have a more compelling argument for slashing / privatizing / effectively eliminating Medicare, Social Security and all manner of other federal programs that support ordinary Americans and retirees...

 

All the while, the Musk's, Bezoz's, Zuckerberg's and other billionaires in Trump's current cohort go laughing to the bank with Trump Admin federal funding / contracts / concessions, while ordinary Americans suffer.

 

Have Wealthy Donors Bought the Trump Administration?

February 10, 2025

 

"When only a small group of people with extraordinary wealth have power over the government, our system is not responsive to the will of the people, but rather to the will of a handful of wealthy donors whose biggest concerns are lining their own pockets.  

 

Yet, President Trump is rewarding his biggest donors with political favors and countless opportunities to enrich themselves at the expense of the American people.

...

Now we’re witnessing President Trump reward his wealthy donors not only with ambassadorships, but also with positions in the Cabinet and new roles such as Musk’s unelected position that is influencing government decisions in the shadows.  

 

(more)

 

https://campaignlegal.org/update/have-wealthy-donors-bought-trump-administration

 

Campaign Legal Center (CLC) is a nonpartisan legal organization dedicated to solving the wide range of challenges facing American democracy.

 

What does the far right gain if/when the federal government is effectively hobbled:

 

-- little to no environmental regulation enforcement

-- little to no banking / stock market regulation enforcement

-- little to no Justice Department voting rights violation enforcement

-- little to no FDA food safety regulation enforcement

etc etc etc.

 

Which is exactly the road Trump has already started the current federal government down thru massive attempted federal worker layoffs and attempting to eliminate or effectively gut entire federal agencies and departments.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, BLMFem said:

And now, if the biggly big bill goes through the deficit will skyrocket, according to Musk, who calls the bill a “disgusting abomination”.

 

Why do we care what a nazi has to say?

7 minutes ago, TedG said:

 

 

1) The federal budget has been a mess for sometime now.   This is not a Trump thing.   I blame the dems for buidling a government that we can't afford.    Spending is at 23% of the GDP.   Which is unstainable.  

2) Calling this a tax break for the wealthy is a stupid narrative.   

 

1. Yes, because after WW2 there have only been Dem presidents, right? So let's blame the Dems only!😂

2. Musk calls the bill a “disgusting abomination” that will massively inflate the deficit. Do you disagree?

3 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Really? Went up under Bush, down under Obama, massively up under Trump. I guess it's you guys who need to "get on the debt bandwagon", agree?

And now, if the biggly big bill goes through the deficit will skyrocket, according to Musk, who calls the bill a “disgusting abomination”.

 

https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/americas-finance-guide/national-deficit/

Honey, you need to leave this discussion to the adults.   It's obvious you do not understand the difference between debt and deficit. 

4 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Why do we care what a nazi has to say?

Because he seemed to be all the rage among the MAGA faithful until yesterday?

 

 

5 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Honey, you need to leave this discussion to the adults.   It's obvious you do not understand the difference between debt and deficit. 

Sugar, are you claiming there's no correlation between debt and deficit?

1 minute ago, BLMFem said:

1. Yes, because after WW2 there have only been Dem presidents, right? So let's blame the Dems only!😂

2. Musk calls the bill a “disgusting abomination” that will massively inflate the deficit. Do you disagree?

The major drivers of the debt are the soical spending.   Spendying in FY2024

 

Mandtory spending 4.1 trillion 

 

SS 1.5 trillion

Medicare   0.865 trillion

Medicaid   0.618 trillion.

Income security 0.370 trillion 

Other  0.752 trillion 

 

Discretionary spending 1.8 trillion

 

Defense  0.850 trillion

Non defense 0.960 trillion

 

Service on the debt  0.881 trillion. 

 

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61181

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Sugar, are you claiming there's no correlation between debt and deficit?

Deficit adds to debt.  Under Obama the debt almost increased by 100%. 

 

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/has-president-obama-doubled-national-debt

4 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

Because he seemed to be all the rage among the MAGA faithful until yesterday?

 

 

 

You/they/them/those are the ones claiming Musk is a nazi, and were burning dealerships, vandalizing private property, and selling your teslas to buy VW's commissioned by Hitler.

 

You/they/them/those were claiming Musk went so far as to imitate Cory Booker on stage, and now you seem to think he's the second coming of Urania.

 

Either fire up your tesla autopilot feature, or manually pick a lane.

26 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

My theory is Trump and the far right's underlying and intended aim is to ultimately put the federal government in such bad financial straights that the far right will then have a more compelling argument for slashing / privatizing / effectively eliminating Medicare, Social Security and all manner of other federal programs that support ordinary Americans and retirees...

 

 

 

The federal government is in bad shape becase the dems built a government that we can't afford. 

13 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Deficit adds to debt.  Under Obama the debt almost increased by 100%. 

 

https://www.crfb.org/blogs/has-president-obama-doubled-national-debt

So there is correlation. Apology accepted.

15 minutes ago, TedG said:

The major drivers of the debt are the soical spending.   Spendying in FY2024

 

Mandtory spending 4.1 trillion 

 

SS 1.5 trillion

Medicare   0.865 trillion

Medicaid   0.618 trillion.

Income security 0.370 trillion 

Other  0.752 trillion 

 

Discretionary spending 1.8 trillion

 

Defense  0.850 trillion

Non defense 0.960 trillion

 

Service on the debt  0.881 trillion. 

 

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/61181

 

 

 

And?

1 minute ago, BLMFem said:

And?

 

Did I mess you up with numbers?    Do you know spending in 2024 was at 23.4% of the GDP.   When has the USA ever collected more than 19% of the GDP in taxes. 

It's impossible to bankrupt the US.

 

The US is richer than God.

 

Add up the value of all companies in the US, add intellectual property, then add all the shares in circulation, then add all the real estate in the US, then add in the trillions of GDP that pour in every year. 

 

In short, the US will never go bankrupt.

15 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

You/they/them/those are the ones claiming Musk is a nazi, and were burning dealerships, vandalizing private property, and selling your teslas to buy VW's commissioned by Hitler.

 

You/they/them/those were claiming Musk went so far as to imitate Cory Booker on stage, and now you seem to think he's the second coming of Urania.

 

Either fire up your tesla autopilot feature, or manually pick a lane.

"....selling your teslas to buy VW's commissioned by Hitler."

 

Hyperventilation: Causes and Treatments

 

 

7 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

And?

Perhaps the inevitable conclusion - the USA will not be able to afford the discretionary spending!

 

Massive cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. They are clearly coming down the line!

Just now, JAG said:

Perhaps the inevitable conclusion - the USA will not be able to afford the discretionary spending!

 

Massive cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. They are clearly coming down the line!

That's a given as the biggly big bill will focus on giving tax breaks to the rich.

During Barack Obama’s presidency, the U.S. total outstanding debt increased by almost $8.34 trillion, the biggest dollar increase of any president. In terms of percentage change, Abraham Lincoln’s term had the highest increase at 2,860%, increasing the U.S. debt from about $90.6 million in 1861 to $2.68 billion in 1865 when he was assassinated. 

 

So to answer your question, No, President Trump will not bankrupt the U.S. economy. Now if a left wing socialist President like Barack Hussein Obama should be elected again, than bankruptcy is a possibility. 

12 minutes ago, BLMFem said:

That's a given as the biggly big bill will focus on giving tax breaks to the rich.

 

This tax breaks to the rich is a dumb narrative. 

 

Please define rich a yearly income. 

The US is already living beyond its means what difference will a few trillion more of debt make - it will only bring the inevitable closer.