1 hour ago, ronnie50 said:

I've wondered about that in other places like Bangkok too. The big question is who owns them? Is there a certain small group of people that own the majority of them? I doubt they are all individually owned by sole proprietors. Money laundering comes to mind.

It is ridiculous how many there are. And not many working within the law as it was originally understood.

Most do not even pretend to be dispensaries any more.

I would also like to know what the real game is.

Utter nonsense of the highest order. 

 

The inline to smash around 40 million tourists this year. Which is almost their record. 

 

Special interest groups leak these doom stories during low season every year. This year maybe it's to stimulate interest in casinos to save the day. 

 

Easing visas has allowed in mass cheap rubbish to enter the country. Crime up. Rampant anti social behaviour up. Drug fuelled violence up. Open solicitation by Indian visitors in Pattaya up. Turning into a big dump.

 

Compare to Vietnam - no crime, culture, strict rules and laws, no anti social behaviour, no drugs - you would not mess with a cop there. Strict controls still on Indians and cheap visitors. 

19 hours ago, Reddavy said:

I do not eat what i don’t recognise and when it is still moving on your plate 🤮

 

These interest groups ramp up the doom every low season. Then during peak season it will be back to 'record breaking numbers'. 

 

They have let in so many cheap awful tourists they will get high numbers. But revenue will be down. Culture will be destroyed as you let in so many undesirables. 

 

Remember Europe, UK, USA could easily smash billions of tourists every year if they had the same open door visa policy as Thailand - but they chose quality tourism over mass cheap tourism.

 

No other country has adopted this ridiculous approach that Thailand has. Shameful that India doesn't even let Thai's enter their country without a soul destroying visa process. 

22 hours ago, DonniePeverley said:

Utter nonsense of the highest order. 

 

The inline to smash around 40 million tourists this year. Which is almost their record. 

 

Special interest groups leak these doom stories during low season every year. This year maybe it's to stimulate interest in casinos to save the day. 

 

Easing visas has allowed in mass cheap rubbish to enter the country. Crime up. Rampant anti social behaviour up. Drug fuelled violence up. Open solicitation by Indian visitors in Pattaya up. Turning into a big dump.

 

Compare to Vietnam - no crime, culture, strict rules and laws, no anti social behaviour, no drugs - you would not mess with a cop there. Strict controls still on Indians and cheap visitors. 

 

They are not in line to smash 40 million tourists this year and it will never happen while the Chinese are staying at home. No other market can generate sufficient numbers to compensate for their shortfall.

16 minutes ago, kinyara said:

 

They are not in line to smash 40 million tourists this year and it will never happen while the Chinese are staying at home. No other market can generate sufficient numbers to compensate for their shortfall.

I don't think they will hit that mark either. He's right about the unwashed masses though. It's maybe anecdotal - everything we read about the kee nok riff-raff being welcomed with open arms to try to (never) substitute the 20-30 million Chinese - but there is surely a sense that the main tourist areas like Pattaya walking street and Soi Bangla on Phuket have become horrible if not dangerous (more than ever before). The notion that Thailand can come up with some plan to attract only well-healed tourists by the millions is infantile wishful thinking.

 

did they implement the return to 30 day visa exempt entry for most western countries, or is it still 60 days?

9 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

I don't think they will hit that mark either. He's right about the unwashed masses though. It's maybe anecdotal - everything we read about the kee nok riff-raff being welcomed with open arms to try to (never) substitute the 20-30 million Chinese - but there is surely a sense that the main tourist areas like Pattaya walking street and Soi Bangla on Phuket have become horrible if not dangerous (more than ever before). The notion that Thailand can come up with some plan to attract only well-healed tourists by the millions is infantile wishful thinking.

 

I tend to agree with you having seen a notable increase of anti-social behaviour and criminal behaviour in Pattaya in the last year. I don't know whether it's down to the entry relaxation, legalisation of marijuana, extension of late night drinking hours or a combination of all 3, but something has changed it for the worse.

 

I don't think the volume approach is working in Thailand's favour, it's lowering the attractiveness and quality of the main tourist areas with debatable legitimate revenue benefits. Unfortunately the country is so corrupt that I can't see the powers that be ever being capable of improving the product offering to attract a better standard of tourism. They cater to predominantly cheap mass tourism which they need to absorb a vast unskilled labour force.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

I don't think they will hit that mark either. He's right about the unwashed masses though. It's maybe anecdotal - everything we read about the kee nok riff-raff being welcomed with open arms to try to (never) substitute the 20-30 million Chinese - but there is surely a sense that the main tourist areas like Pattaya walking street and Soi Bangla on Phuket have become horrible if not dangerous (more than ever before). The notion that Thailand can come up with some plan to attract only well-healed tourists by the millions is infantile wishful thinking.

I would not be surprised by what number TAT conjures out of thin air. They currently count all entries as tourists - including land border entries from Malaysia  and Laos and Cambodia and Myanmar.  I used to wonder why the Thai Govt does not force TAT to only count international arrivals via airports and on ships, and only those that are designated as a 'tourist' for Visa purposes - not business, workers, family, diplomats and Thais. But then I realised what I already knew - Thailand is corrupt top to bottom - of course they want the numbers to be as high as possible - to keep up the illusion that Thailand is very popular for tourists. 

 

They will never admit that they never had 39 million tourists in 2019 and it was more like 20-24 million - if you take out the 9 million border walkers and then assume that 20% of the rest (6 million) were non-tourists on business, workers, family, etc (probably more like 25%).  TAT is struggling to find new ways to keep the fake numbers up - but if they only counted international arrivals with a 'tourist' visa (or approval) it would be much much less. 

 

Plus for those that do not know, Thailand only has Tourist Visas - there are no Immigrant or any other Visa into Thailand.  Every Visa is a non-immigrant (tourist) visa - with many sub-categories - from tourism to working to family to diplomat - but they are all technically a non-immigrant tourist visa. That explanation was given by an IO during a presentation years ago but most people just ignore that reality - which in this case matters. TAT is not lying (technically) because all foreign arrivals are technically tourists - but as with all things in this country - the truth is not what it seems to be - until it all falls down on their/our heads. 

 

Fawlty Towers….Sybil Fawlty….Mastermind….Specialist subject….The Bleedin’ Obvious ! 

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I would not be surprised by what number TAT conjures out of thin air. They currently count all entries as tourists - including land border entries from Malaysia  and Laos and Cambodia and Myanmar.  I used to wonder why the Thai Govt does not force TAT to only count international arrivals via airports and on ships, and only those that are designated as a 'tourist' for Visa purposes - not business, workers, family, diplomats and Thais. But then I realised what I already knew - Thailand is corrupt top to bottom - of course they want the numbers to be as high as possible - to keep up the illusion that Thailand is very popular for tourists. 

 

They will never admit that they never had 39 million tourists in 2019 and it was more like 20-24 million - if you take out the 9 million border walkers and then assume that 20% of the rest (6 million) were non-tourists on business, workers, family, etc (probably more like 25%).  TAT is struggling to find new ways to keep the fake numbers up - but if they only counted international arrivals with a 'tourist' visa (or approval) it would be much much less. 

 

Plus for those that do not know, Thailand only has Tourist Visas - there are no Immigrant or any other Visa into Thailand.  Every Visa is a non-immigrant (tourist) visa - with many sub-categories - from tourism to working to family to diplomat - but they are all technically a non-immigrant tourist visa. That explanation was given by an IO during a presentation years ago but most people just ignore that reality - which in this case matters. TAT is not lying (technically) because all foreign arrivals are technically tourists - but as with all things in this country - the truth is not what it seems to be - until it all falls down on their/our heads. 

 

 

Utter garbage, a total fallacy.

 

The Southern provinces bordering Malaysia are hugely dependent on their neighbours for tourism, why would tourists fly there when it's more convenient and cheaper to cross by land. Same applies to other neighbouring crossing points, after all if it's good enough for Westerners travelling around SE Asia why wouldn't Asians from those countries do the same coming to Thailand for a holiday.

 

Yeah let's count every Cambodian and Burmese worker coming into Thailand and earning a pittance as a tourist so we can show a huge increase in our tourism revenue. Seriously ?

 

Aside from the fact the length of stay figures by those countries, which they publish, don't support your theory, they would be shooting themselves in the foot by lowering overall average spend per tourist - a figure they want to show increasing.

 

 

On 6/11/2025 at 10:28 PM, Nicco said:

It's like everything in Thailand they just have an inability to regulate in large part because the Thai population has no respect for the elite, police, bureaucracy, politicians and the rule of law.

 

Disagree.

 

Too many highso fingers in too many pies.

 

As for the Profane masses they kowtow to everyone in authority as far as I've seen.

 

It's not like Bangladesh for Khrist's sakes, where bricks can literally be flying.

On 6/13/2025 at 1:13 AM, MarkBR said:

Not sure what you are eating as Japanese food is some of the best in the world

Best in the world😱😱🤮 What you eating? Japanese mcdonalds???

On 6/15/2025 at 2:49 PM, kinyara said:

Utter garbage, a total fallacy.

 

The Southern provinces bordering Malaysia are hugely dependent on their neighbours for tourism, why would tourists fly there when it's more convenient and cheaper to cross by land. Same applies to other neighbouring crossing points, after all if it's good enough for Westerners travelling around SE Asia why wouldn't Asians from those countries do the same coming to Thailand for a holiday.

 

Yeah let's count every Cambodian and Burmese worker coming into Thailand and earning a pittance as a tourist so we can show a huge increase in our tourism revenue. Seriously ?

 

Aside from the fact the length of stay figures by those countries, which they publish, don't support your theory, they would be shooting themselves in the foot by lowering overall average spend per tourist - a figure they want to show increasing.

Garbage? Fallacy? Are you living in a parallel universe? Perhaps you just dont understand?

My point is that TAT overinflate the figures - both in numbers of tourists and money they spend in Thailand. 

 

If you think that these TAT tourist arrivals figures from 2019 are real and that they each spent 52K Baht while in Thailand, then I and most cannot help you - because that is what TAT reported - and still claims today.

Cambodia   925,437
Laos            1,856,762
Malaysia     4,274,458
Myanmar    389,301
Total =     7,445,958   = 387,189,816,000 Baht.

 

Freely available on Google is the following quote - " The Tourism Authority of Thailand (TAT) tracks tourist numbers primarily through immigration data collected at border checkpoints and airports. They also gather data from various sources like airlines, hotels, and tour operators to refine their statistics and gain a more comprehensive understanding of tourist activity." 

 

TAT are paid bonuses and are assessed based upon their 'success' in delivering tourists into Thailand, and their economic benefits are used for the Govt's budget calculations.  TAT calculates the number of tourists and their economic value using their own unpublished and unscientific estimates of arrivals (see above) - there is no independent oversight of their claims - and they claim all arrivals as tourists and estimate how much they spend.  And just like any school student that marks their own homework - they get A+ every time. TAT's end of year assessments and bonuses are always very 'positive' because the Govt wants them to say there are far more Tourists than there really is. This justifies them spending more than they have or will get on things with kickbacks to themselves, their relatives and their mates.  The TAT numbers are easily faked to claim the economy is going great - unlike trade exports which are very difficult to fake. Mate - this place is corrupted top to bottom - if you dont know that, then you need to get out and about and take a good look see. 

 

While you are out there you will see an economy that is crashing again after a post-Covid boost - and they are desperate to hide it for as long as possible - but stories like this one (and reality) are showing more and more the true state of the Thai economy - and it aint good.  And despite opening their doors and offering free Visas to anyone and everyone (even the Russians which most countries banned), they cannot hide the tourism failures of Thailand and the associated economic collapse.  Nor can they hide the growing social and criminal problems that allowing everyone/anyone into the country has caused.  

On 6/16/2025 at 9:16 AM, Woke to Sounds said:

Disagree.

Too many highso fingers in too many pies.

As for the Profane masses they kowtow to everyone in authority as far as I've seen.

It's not like Bangladesh for Khrist's sakes, where bricks can literally be flying.

IMO - the Thai population has no respect for the elite, police, bureaucracy, politicians and the rule of law - because they will be destroyed, jailed or 'disappear' if they raise any complaints against those with the power - and they are very very powerful here.  

Whether it is killing policemen, or burning to death 30 people in an illegal nightclub, or causing a building to collapse killing 100 people, and 100s of other things since I have been here - the guilty wealthy and elite never get truly 'punished'. Those near the top will never allow that 'precedent' to put at risk their illegally and corruptly gained generational power and wealth. 

I’ve seen similar slowdowns before, and a fresh look at market gaps and guest demand usually helps spark new ideas. I once leaned on hospitality consulting australia for help with a feasibility check on a mixed-use project, and it gave me a clearer picture of what would actually work. Something like that kind of outside perspective might help identify which segments or experiences could pull in more visitors again.

26 minutes ago, Julliettee said:

I’ve seen similar slowdowns before, and a fresh look at market gaps and guest demand usually helps spark new ideas. I once leaned on hospitality consulting australia for help with a feasibility check on a mixed-use project, and it gave me a clearer picture of what would actually work. Something like that kind of outside perspective might help identify which segments or experiences could pull in more visitors again.

Thailand generally doesn't listen to outside advice though.

On 2/5/2026 at 1:02 PM, Julliettee said:

I’ve seen similar slowdowns before, and a fresh look at market gaps and guest demand usually helps spark new ideas. I once leaned on hospitality consulting australia for help with a feasibility check on a mixed-use project, and it gave me a clearer picture of what would actually work. Something like that kind of outside perspective might help identify which segments or experiences could pull in more visitors again.

No matter what Thailand does, they will not be able to compete with Vietnam in the future.

1 hour ago, KhunHeineken said:

No matter what Thailand does, they will not be able to compete with Vietnam in the future.

You appear to have an obsession with negativity.

Meanwhile, tourist arrivals are trending upwards for Thailand. January 2026 beat January 2025, and the February arrivals show a continuation of that trend.

What do you know about Vietnam? Vietnam cannot handle the volume that Thailand does for the simple reason that it does not have the transport or the tourism infrastructure. No airport in Vietnam with its current capacity could handle 5 or 10 million more passengers without resulting in long lines and delays. It will take years for Vietnam to build up its transport infrastructure. You really have no understanding of the Vietnamese tourism market.

34 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

You appear to have an obsession with negativity.

Meanwhile, tourist arrivals are trending upwards for Thailand. January 2026 beat January 2025, and the February arrivals show a continuation of that trend.

What do you know about Vietnam? Vietnam cannot handle the volume that Thailand does for the simple reason that it does not have the transport or the tourism infrastructure. No airport in Vietnam with its current capacity could handle 5 or 10 million more passengers without resulting in long lines and delays. It will take years for Vietnam to build up its transport infrastructure. You really have no understanding of the Vietnamese tourism market.

U seems to be obsessed with Thailand numbers.I don't believe the numbers they come up with.They allways find a way to get the numbers up every month.They have priced themselves out compared to neighbor countries.They lost alot of exports because of the ridiculous high baht.In business its normal to low the prices in pubs and bars to attract more customers.In Thailand they do the opposit.So they make the fewer customers to pay for the lost customers.What a stupid strategy!!!They also have huge problems with criminals arriving and make hell in fex Phuket and Pattaya.Scams on every level in Thailand.Im exited to see what the new 8 countries they will put on the visa free list as they announced.

8 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

You appear to have an obsession with negativity.

Meanwhile, tourist arrivals are trending upwards for Thailand. January 2026 beat January 2025, and the February arrivals show a continuation of that trend.

What do you know about Vietnam? Vietnam cannot handle the volume that Thailand does for the simple reason that it does not have the transport or the tourism infrastructure. No airport in Vietnam with its current capacity could handle 5 or 10 million more passengers without resulting in long lines and delays. It will take years for Vietnam to build up its transport infrastructure. You really have no understanding of the Vietnamese tourism market.

Personally, I do not care about the tourism infrastructure in Vietnam. I have visited the country on many occassions and the important point to note is that Vietnam outshines Thailand when it comes to tourist and other visitor numbers! As a UK citizen, I now get 45 visa free days on entry. ref. Google

UK citizens can enter Vietnam visa-free for up to 45 days for tourism or business, as of early 2026. This exemption applies for single or multiple entries, provided your passport is valid for at least 6 months and has at least two blank pages. For stays longer than 45 days, you must apply for a visa (e.g., 90-day e-visa).

Also note: LTH airport is now open.

Vietnam's new, flagship airport is Long Thanh International Airport (LTH), located in Đồng Nai province, roughly 40 km east of Ho Chi Minh City. Designed to relieve congestion at Tan Son Nhat International Airport, this multi-billion dollar, lotus-inspired mega-project completed its first milestone flights in late 2025 and is set for full commercial operations in early 2026.

Key Details About Long Thanh International Airport (2026):

• Capacity: The first phase (2021–2026) aims to handle 25 million passengers..........future phases expanding capacity to 100 million passengers and 5 million tonnes of cargo per year.

So, BKK take note!

57 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

Personally, I do not care about the tourism infrastructure in Vietnam. I have visited the country on many occassions and the important point to note is that Vietnam outshines Thailand when it comes to tourist and other visitor numbers! As a UK citizen, I now get 45 visa free days on entry. ref. Google

UK citizens can enter Vietnam visa-free for up to 45 days for tourism or business, as of early 2026. This exemption applies for single or multiple entries, provided your passport is valid for at least 6 months and has at least two blank pages. For stays longer than 45 days, you must apply for a visa (e.g., 90-day e-visa).

Also note: LTH airport is now open.

Vietnam's new, flagship airport is Long Thanh International Airport (LTH), located in Đồng Nai province, roughly 40 km east of Ho Chi Minh City. Designed to relieve congestion at Tan Son Nhat International Airport, this multi-billion dollar, lotus-inspired mega-project completed its first milestone flights in late 2025 and is set for full commercial operations in early 2026.

Key Details About Long Thanh International Airport (2026):

• Capacity: The first phase (2021–2026) aims to handle 25 million passengers..........future phases expanding capacity to 100 million passengers and 5 million tonnes of cargo per year.

So, BKK take note!

How does Vietnam "outshine" Thailand in tourist numbers? In 2025, the reported visitors for Vietnam were 21.17 million and for Thailand 32.9 million. How does Vietnam having 50%+ fewer international visitors than Thailand, outshine Thailand's performance?

Wonderful that you can obtain 45 days visa free entry to Vietnam. Has Thailand's 60 day visa free option with the option to add another 30 days changed? Has the opportunity to enter Thailand 2X in a year on the visa free entry option changed? How exactly is the Vietnamese visa regulation so much better?

It is wonderful that LTH airport is planned for full operations sometime in 2026 and is planned to handle 25 million passengers. What's your point? BKK handles 62 million passengers now. The wonderful Satellite terminal added 15 million passenger capacity, raising the comfortable fit capacity to 65 million. When the new expansion Terminals come on line in 2030, capacity will go to 120 million. Little 1 runway Phuket Airport handles 17+ million passengers in a year.

What is the point that you are trying to make? It is wonderful that Vietnam is planning to increase its passenger capacity. Let it get its new airport operating first.

You like Vietnam. Good for you. Enjoy Vietnam to your heart's content. Vietnam has neither the tourist infrastructure nor the service capability of Thailand. Maybe one day it will, but that day isn't here and is unlikely anytime soon. The Thailand bashers can find lots of things to criticize about Thailand, but once a person lives and works in corrupt and inefficient Vietnam, the opinion will change. The beaches look nice in Vietnam. Unfortunately, 90%+of sewage is dumped raw and untreated in Vietnam. Thailand is at an estimated 60-70%. Neither value is good, but at least Thailand is investing in sewage treatment now. Vietnam is not. There is a reason why Vietnamese seafood is banned in many countries which test the product. Thailand still manages to pass the EU tests. it's characteristics like this that make the difference. And for all the elderly miserable bashers, try and pull your condescending demands to be treated like royalty in Vietnam: they won't put up with it like they do in Thailand, and good luck trying to get service in English, let alone another foreign language at a government facility.

2 hours ago, Patong2021 said:

How does Vietnam "outshine" Thailand in tourist numbers? In 2025, the reported visitors for Vietnam were 21.17 million and for Thailand 32.9 million. How does Vietnam having 50%+ fewer international visitors than Thailand, outshine Thailand's performance?

Wonderful that you can obtain 45 days visa free entry to Vietnam. Has Thailand's 60 day visa free option with the option to add another 30 days changed? Has the opportunity to enter Thailand 2X in a year on the visa free entry option changed? How exactly is the Vietnamese visa regulation so much better?

It is wonderful that LTH airport is planned for full operations sometime in 2026 and is planned to handle 25 million passengers. What's your point? BKK handles 62 million passengers now. The wonderful Satellite terminal added 15 million passenger capacity, raising the comfortable fit capacity to 65 million. When the new expansion Terminals come on line in 2030, capacity will go to 120 million. Little 1 runway Phuket Airport handles 17+ million passengers in a year.

What is the point that you are trying to make? It is wonderful that Vietnam is planning to increase its passenger capacity. Let it get its new airport operating first.

You like Vietnam. Good for you. Enjoy Vietnam to your heart's content. Vietnam has neither the tourist infrastructure nor the service capability of Thailand. Maybe one day it will, but that day isn't here and is unlikely anytime soon. The Thailand bashers can find lots of things to criticize about Thailand, but once a person lives and works in corrupt and inefficient Vietnam, the opinion will change. The beaches look nice in Vietnam. Unfortunately, 90%+of sewage is dumped raw and untreated in Vietnam. Thailand is at an estimated 60-70%. Neither value is good, but at least Thailand is investing in sewage treatment now. Vietnam is not. There is a reason why Vietnamese seafood is banned in many countries which test the product. Thailand still manages to pass the EU tests. it's characteristics like this that make the difference. And for all the elderly miserable bashers, try and pull your condescending demands to be treated like royalty in Vietnam: they won't put up with it like they do in Thailand, and good luck trying to get service in English, let alone another foreign language at a government facility.

Look to the future (Google)

Vietnam is rapidly emerging as a premier travel destination, with its tourism growth in 2025-2026 outpacing Thailand's, particularly by surpassing it as the top destination for Chinese tourists and recording record-high, fast-recovering visitor numbers. Vietnam has also overtaken Thailand in attracting tourists from South Korea and has seen a massive surge in travelers from India.

Key details on the tourism shift:

• Rapid Growth & Records: In early 2026, Vietnam experienced a record, high-volume surge in international visitors, with nearly 2.5 million arriving in January 2026 alone. In 2025, Vietnam welcomed a record 21.2 million international visitors, with 23–25 million anticipated for the near future.

• Top Source Market Shift: As of early 2026, Vietnam has overtaken Thailand as the top choice for Chinese tourists, with over 5.3 million Chinese visitors choosing Vietnam compared to 4.5 million for Thailand.

• Recovery Speed: Vietnam's tourism recovery is the fastest in the region, exceeding 98% of its pre-pandemic levels.

• Contributing Factors: Vietnam's success is fueled by improved visa policies, new, direct international flights, enhanced, luxury, tourism, infrastructure, and increased safety perceptions compared to regional, competitors.

While Thailand historically holds the top spot for total annual volume (35.5 million in 2024), Vietnam's, accelerating, growth, and popularity in key, markets like China and, India, are challenging this, leading to, a significant, regional, market, shift.

No further comment from me.