June 17, 2025Jun 17 Author 58 minutes ago, Presnock said: Like I mentioned earlier, the black box has been found so we should be able to get a better understanding of what occurred versus lots of theories though some possibly valid. I'm sorry but I think dual engine failure although highly unlikely is perfectly valid not just possibly valid and is now the leading opinion (it was my initial thought although I said words to the effect of as impossible as it seems). Of course the black box will reveal the cause but as I say everything is now pointing toward dual engine failure. Wait for the black box data? Sure. Have to. Think about and discuss what happened? Why not. Look where we're at. The pilot or co-pilot were getting the finger pointed at them. Do you not think their families will now be feeling a bit better because due to analysis and discussion between experts. It sure seems now that they were trying to keep the bird in the sky and something catastrophic and beyond their control happened just after V1 or rotation.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 Author 5 minutes ago, KannikaP said: Would the RAT do any good in 10 seconds? No. It's designed to give enough electricity for critical flight controls, instruments and communications and at altitude. It's to give the pilots a chance to land. It deploys automatically due to a systems failure be it electrical, hydraulic or dual engine failure or a combination of failures.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 1 minute ago, dinsdale said: No. It's designed to give enough electricity for critical flight controls, instruments and communications and at altitude. It's to give the pilots a chance to land. It deploys automatically due to a systems failure be it electrical, hydraulic or dual engine failure or a combination of failures. It hardly had time to get up to full speed in the time the aircraft was airborne.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 At 4:45 of the video he mentions three things that could cause the RAT to deploy, one of the three is massive hydraulic failure. To me, I can hear the jet engines - not the tiny RAT sound. Auto deployment after lift off from the runway if massive hydraulic failure - like no flaps deployed for takeoff (the 787 used the entire runway to get airborne) would make more sense to me than dual engine failure. Also, the pilots might well have set the flaps for takeoff, but didn't realize they hadn't deployed (they certainly can't see them) until off the ground. Hence the Mayday call.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 10 minutes ago, ronnie50 said: At 4:45 of the video he mentions three things that could cause the RAT to deploy, one of the three is massive hydraulic failure. To me, I can hear the jet engines - not the tiny RAT sound. Auto deployment after lift off from the runway if massive hydraulic failure - like no flaps deployed for takeoff (the 787 used the entire runway to get airborne) would make more sense to me than dual engine failure. Also, the pilots might well have set the flaps for takeoff, but didn't realize they hadn't deployed (they certainly can't see them) until off the ground. Hence the Mayday call. obviously the theory is no power because both engine shut for some reasons. If engines was still engaged, it could had been overloaded, but that’s not on the table for now A Boeing 787 Dreamliner can stall if it's overloaded, especially when combined with factors like high temperatures and incorrect speed calculations during takeoff. Overloading can lead to a longer takeoff roll and difficulty maintaining altitude after losing an engine, as the plane might not generate enough lift
June 17, 2025Jun 17 Author 25 minutes ago, ronnie50 said: At 4:45 of the video he mentions three things that could cause the RAT to deploy, one of the three is massive hydraulic failure. To me, I can hear the jet engines - not the tiny RAT sound. Auto deployment after lift off from the runway if massive hydraulic failure - like no flaps deployed for takeoff (the 787 used the entire runway to get airborne) would make more sense to me than dual engine failure. Also, the pilots might well have set the flaps for takeoff, but didn't realize they hadn't deployed (they certainly can't see them) until off the ground. Hence the Mayday call. It's an electronic checklist on the 787 so if they're not set you don't get the green light to continue. The RAT sound ain't tiny. Propellers going almost supersonic make a lot of noise. Listen to this. Apart from that since it's been shown that the RAT was deployed I haven't seen anyone or any article dispute this.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 1 hour ago, Presnock said: immediately after the first reports of the crash, the news broadcasts included that fact. I lived in S. Asia too for a couple of years ante birds, called Kites (not sure of the spelling) were always flying around. They would even attack people on balconies or on the roof of their bldgs. Possibility rather than fact I think.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 1 hour ago, KannikaP said: Would the RAT do any good in 10 seconds? Assuming total knock out of electrical systems, which would require APU (powered off after starting engines), both engines flamed out (didn't hear them in that video where RAT was very audible), and batteries to fail all at the same time - RAT would provide power for the essential cockpit instruments, like speed, altitude, heading, level,... and powering the hydraulic systems to move control surfaces. While for these 30 seconds other than keeping wings level it didn't provide much help, RAT was never designed for such a knock-out at 500ft. But it can be incredibly useful when such a failure occurs at 35k ft... Of course now question is what could wipe out all electrical systems, which are powered by engines and battery... I think fuel contamination can be excluded. There are about 130-150 flights per day out of Ahmedabad every day, so if fuel was contaminated, you would have more than just one plane having a problem. Very unlikely pilots would accidentally kill both engines. Battery fire is unlikely given battery is encased in a (2 inch if I remember correctly) thick metal case with vent to outside the plane after initial incidents on this plane model. The survivor stated that 30s into flight (that's subjective), there was a "loud noise", "lights were flickering", he heard "engines getting loud" and then plane just "started falling". Then it was "all fog" and he went out to the left, but on the right they could not as that side "hit the wall". Not sure what you can do with this but noise (from what? Engines seemed to be dead - no smoke, no flames coming out of them - so they weren't backfiring - they actually were flamed out or idle) is unusual. I am still confident that the dust cloud is a clue, since it's from beyond runway. The plane of this type should need far less than 3.5 km runway - should lift off about 1 km before the end of it (yes, I know, depending on weight, configuration and outside conditions). By the time it got to the end of the runway it should have already been at couple of 100 ft and should in no case create that cloud. I still think it was barely above the ground at the end of runway and hit something there, which knocked out the engines. And it wasn't birds ingested. The speed could only get it that far and as there was no thrust from engines, the end was inevitable. It will be very interesting to see what the final report uncovers. I am particularly looking forward to maintenance report, especially what was (or wasn't but should be) done on this aircraft in the past few months... Either way, this incident will improve aviation safety once investigation completes, whatever it points out to. Dreamliner is the first composite aircraft redesigned from ground up, and this was the first fatal accident of this aircraft type. Many airline executives and aircraft manufacturers are eager to know what happened. B787 is a workhorse for many airlines for medium and long haul flights. There are over 1000 of them in the air right now.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 Author 20 minutes ago, tomazbodner said: I am still confident that the dust cloud is a clue, since it's from beyond runway. It sure seems to have used most if not all of the runway but it is India and the runway toward the end might just have been dusty. As for hitting something what could that be big enough to take out two massive engines at the same time. Apart from that there's no visible damage and no flame outs from the engines.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 15 minutes ago, dinsdale said: It sure seems to have used most if not all of the runway but it is India and the runway toward the end might just have been dusty. As for hitting something what could that be big enough to take out two massive engines at the same time. Apart from that there's no visible damage and no flame outs from the engines. It's a hot dusty time of year in Gujurat but there should be no debris on any runway. We don't know about "visible damage yet, especially after that fireball. 46 minutes ago, tomazbodner said: Assuming total knock out of electrical systems, which would require APU (powered off after starting engines), both engines flamed out (didn't hear them in that video where RAT was very audible), and batteries to fail all at the same time - RAT would provide power for the essential cockpit instruments, like speed, altitude, heading, level,... and powering the hydraulic systems to move control surfaces. While for these 30 seconds other than keeping wings level it didn't provide much help, RAT was never designed for such a knock-out at 500ft. But it can be incredibly useful when such a failure occurs at 35k ft... Of course now question is what could wipe out all electrical systems, which are powered by engines and battery... I think fuel contamination can be excluded. There are about 130-150 flights per day out of Ahmedabad every day, so if fuel was contaminated, you would have more than just one plane having a problem. Very unlikely pilots would accidentally kill both engines. Battery fire is unlikely given battery is encased in a (2 inch if I remember correctly) thick metal case with vent to outside the plane after initial incidents on this plane model. The survivor stated that 30s into flight (that's subjective), there was a "loud noise", "lights were flickering", he heard "engines getting loud" and then plane just "started falling". Then it was "all fog" and he went out to the left, but on the right they could not as that side "hit the wall". Not sure what you can do with this but noise (from what? Engines seemed to be dead - no smoke, no flames coming out of them - so they weren't backfiring - they actually were flamed out or idle) is unusual. I am still confident that the dust cloud is a clue, since it's from beyond runway. The plane of this type should need far less than 3.5 km runway - should lift off about 1 km before the end of it (yes, I know, depending on weight, configuration and outside conditions). By the time it got to the end of the runway it should have already been at couple of 100 ft and should in no case create that cloud. I still think it was barely above the ground at the end of runway and hit something there, which knocked out the engines. And it wasn't birds ingested. The speed could only get it that far and as there was no thrust from engines, the end was inevitable. It will be very interesting to see what the final report uncovers. I am particularly looking forward to maintenance report, especially what was (or wasn't but should be) done on this aircraft in the past few months... Either way, this incident will improve aviation safety once investigation completes, whatever it points out to. Dreamliner is the first composite aircraft redesigned from ground up, and this was the first fatal accident of this aircraft type. Many airline executives and aircraft manufacturers are eager to know what happened. B787 is a workhorse for many airlines for medium and long haul flights. There are over 1000 of them in the air right now. Agree with all that. The long take-off roll and late rotation is far from normal - I think there were already problems before they managed to get into the air. The dust cloud kicked up was assumably/hopefully not from the runway surface itself but the engines might have ingested a similar amount of debris there, or maybe more, and then been affected enough to lose thrust, at least for a while.
June 17, 2025Jun 17 The teen who filmed the Air India crash video the world saw Interesting. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0l484l40gyo
June 18, 2025Jun 18 18 hours ago, dinsdale said: No. It's designed to give enough electricity for critical flight controls, instruments and communications and at altitude. It's to give the pilots a chance to land. It deploys automatically due to a systems failure be it electrical, hydraulic or dual engine failure or a combination of failures. you can't stop the speculations can you, my suggestion is to educate yourself and read the updated news a preliminary investigation report should be released within 30 days, with the final report ideally completed within 12 months. Did both engines fail due to bird strikes or fuel contamination? Were the flaps improperly extended, reducing lift on a heavily loaded jet in extreme heat? Was there a maintenance error during engine servicing? Or did an inadvertent crew action cut off fuel to both engines? How the Air India crash investigation is unfolding https://www.yahoo.com/news/air-india-crash-investigation-unfolding-000211609.html
June 18, 2025Jun 18 Author 31 minutes ago, Mavideol said: you can't stop the speculations can you, my suggestion is to educate yourself and read the updated news a preliminary investigation report should be released within 30 days, with the final report ideally completed within 12 months. Did both engines fail due to bird strikes or fuel contamination? Were the flaps improperly extended, reducing lift on a heavily loaded jet in extreme heat? Was there a maintenance error during engine servicing? Or did an inadvertent crew action cut off fuel to both engines? How the Air India crash investigation is unfolding https://www.yahoo.com/news/air-india-crash-investigation-unfolding-000211609.html BBC being reported by Yahoo. If you think this is the best way people should educate themselves then fair enough. Bird strike has been ruled out, fuel contamination possible but unlikely as high tech equipment is used specifically to detect the minutest amounts of contaminants, flaps and slats appear set for takeoff from the wreckage, maintenance issue that causes both engines to fail? Cutting off fuel is a possibility but these are highly trained people. Interestingly no mention of RAT being and why this would happen and no mention of vapor lock which could also taks put both engines in your linked article. I suggest if people want to educate themselves then BBC and Yahoo News might not be the best place.
June 18, 2025Jun 18 1 minute ago, dinsdale said: BBC being reported by Yahoo. If you think this is the best way people should educate themselves then fair enough. Bird strike has been ruled out, fuel contamination possible but unlikely as high tech equipment is used specifically to detect the minutest amounts of contaminants, flaps and slats appear set for takeoff from the wreckage, maintenance issue that causes both engines to fail? Cutting off fuel is a possibility but these are highly trained people. Interestingly no mention of RAT being and why this would happen and no mention of vapor lock which could also taks put both engines in your linked article. I suggest if people want to educate themselves then BBC and Yahoo News might not be the best place. What's wrong with Yahoo news, their sources are from many media outlets.. Please tell all...........? 🤔
June 18, 2025Jun 18 1 hour ago, dinsdale said: BBC being reported by Yahoo. If you think this is the best way people should educate themselves then fair enough. Bird strike has been ruled out, fuel contamination possible but unlikely as high tech equipment is used specifically to detect the minutest amounts of contaminants, flaps and slats appear set for takeoff from the wreckage, maintenance issue that causes both engines to fail? Cutting off fuel is a possibility but these are highly trained people. Interestingly no mention of RAT being and why this would happen and no mention of vapor lock which could also taks put both engines in your linked article. I suggest if people want to educate themselves then BBC and Yahoo News might not be the best place. Regarding your comment about the fuel, here's a story from Hong Kong about another Air India plane that turned round in mid-air on June 16th, and headed back to Hong Kong due to a cockpit warning on a reported fuel filter issue. https://www.thestandard.com.hk/hong-kong-news/article/304891/CE-expresses-grief-over-Air-India-crash-reaffirms-HK-aviation-safety https://www.thestandard.com.hk/hong-kong-news/article/304892/Air-India-strands-200-passengers-overnight-at-HK-airport-after-midair-scare
June 18, 2025Jun 18 3 hours ago, dinsdale said: BBC being reported by Yahoo. If you think this is the best way people should educate themselves then fair enough. Bird strike has been ruled out, fuel contamination possible but unlikely as high tech equipment is used specifically to detect the minutest amounts of contaminants, flaps and slats appear set for takeoff from the wreckage, maintenance issue that causes both engines to fail? Cutting off fuel is a possibility but these are highly trained people. Interestingly no mention of RAT being and why this would happen and no mention of vapor lock which could also taks put both engines in your linked article. I suggest if people want to educate themselves then BBC and Yahoo News might not be the best place. 48 posts and you still not getting the point, nobody cares about your theory of speculations, the founding facts by professionals will be out soon enough, but even then you will find a way to divert like above, since the BBC & Yahoo report(s) don't fit your narrative you divert to blaming their professionalism and reliability , the maga in you can't accept to be wrong or incorrect just like the guy that you support, when it doesn't go his way he diverts to something else
June 18, 2025Jun 18 Author Just now, Mavideol said: 48 posts and you still not getting the point, nobody cares about your theory of speculations, the founding facts by professionals will be out soon enough, but even then you will find a way to divert like above, since the BBC & Yahoo report(s) don't fit your narrative you divert to blaming their professionalism and reliability , the maga in you can't accept to be wrong or incorrect just like the guy that you support, when it doesn't go his way he diverts to something else Not my "theory of speculations". Everything has been based on what's been observed and what aviation experts have said. RAT deployed. Tell me this is speculation. Flaps appear extended for takeoff from images of the wreckage. Tell me this is speculation. Both engines lost thrust. This obviously is not speculation as the pilot himself said so. So please tell me what I have speculated on. Of course my initial call that it seemed as though both engines lost thrust was at the time speculation but now everything points toward this. Why the seemingly impossible (which I also said initially) happened is what will be determined.
June 18, 2025Jun 18 1 hour ago, Mavideol said: 48 posts and you still not getting the point, nobody cares about your theory of speculations, the founding facts by professionals will be out soon enough, but even then you will find a way to divert like above, since the BBC & Yahoo report(s) don't fit your narrative you divert to blaming their professionalism and reliability , the maga in you can't accept to be wrong or incorrect just like the guy that you support, when it doesn't go his way he diverts to something else MAGA. Oh Lordy.
June 18, 2025Jun 18 1 hour ago, dinsdale said: Not my "theory of speculations". Everything has been based on what's been observed and what aviation experts have said. RAT deployed. Tell me this is speculation. Flaps appear extended for takeoff from images of the wreckage. Tell me this is speculation. Both engines lost thrust. This obviously is not speculation as the pilot himself said so. So please tell me what I have speculated on. Of course my initial call that it seemed as though both engines lost thrust was at the time speculation but now everything points toward this. Why the seemingly impossible (which I also said initially) happened is what will be determined. Have you got an image of these extended flaps?
June 18, 2025Jun 18 Author 13 minutes ago, nauseus said: Have you got an image of these extended flaps? Flaps and slats.
June 18, 2025Jun 18 Popular Post On 6/15/2025 at 8:07 AM, dinsdale said: Dual engine failure? Original footage showing the ram air turbine was deployed. Thanks @dinsdale, I found that very interesting. He seems to know what he is talking about, and provided good evidence. Just one thing surprised me, and I now nothing about aeroplanes. He went to the trouble of finding the original video with the clear audio, and played the section with the whirring RAT three times, but never referred to the main engines in the same audio. Since they would have been under full power for take-off and initial climb, wouldn't their noise have drowned out the RAT? Isn't that further evidence of a total engine failure?
June 18, 2025Jun 18 1 hour ago, dinsdale said: Flaps and slats. Thanks. Leading edge (slats) seen before and Denys mentions them but not the trailing edge (flaps). Looks like too much damage and breakage at the trailing edge too be sure where these flaps were at take-off.
June 18, 2025Jun 18 An extract from airwaysmag.com about the 787's "more electric' strategy .... "Although the advantages are evident, certain aviation professionals have raised concerns about the complexity of maintenance in electric systems, particularly as they age. Electrical malfunctions are more challenging to identify than mechanical malfunctions, and any malfunction in large power systems may cause a cascade effect". So older 787's may present a unique risk.
June 18, 2025Jun 18 Author Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) Failure. Yes, this is speculation but it's an interesting theory. Starting 14:14 has an interesting breakdown of possible causes and the likelihood of occurrence.
July 3, 2025Jul 3 As expected, this will take time before any conclusions will be given. A few more theories have also been presented. Investigators have begun analysing the Boeing 787’s black boxes but say it will be months before they release their findings The Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) has confirmed that the aircraft’s flight recorders – known as black boxes – will not be sent outside the country for assessment and will be analysed by the agency, said Murlidhar Mohol, the minister of state for civil aviation https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/india/air-india-plane-crash-sabotage-investigation-latest-update-b2779291.html History of software glitch on Boing.
July 3, 2025Jul 3 Captain Steeve brakes down the Black box and why it takes time before we have the answers
July 3, 2025Jul 3 1 hour ago, Hummin said: Captain Steeve brakes down the Black box and why it takes time before we have the answers Should be just Captain Steeve breaks down. Bloody hopeless.
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