I rearranged our filters and had the water guy install 2 of these automatic backwash valves. 

Finished the installation late Saturday night so the water guys left with no real instructions and no handbook.

I thought all was OK but wifey says the filters aren't backwashing so she rang the water guy and he said it's the way I wanted it installed is the problem, something to do with the filters always full of water.

Before I had the submersible pump to the 3000L tank, then to 2 large filters, to a big blue filter, then to the house pump.

I asked the water guy if we would get better flow if we changed the setup to: submersible pump to 2 large filters, big blue filter, then tank and from the tank to the house pump. He said yes and installed it that way.

Now he and the wifey say it won't automatically backwash like I had it installed as the filters are always full of water.

He's coming Tuesday to change things, but why install it like that if it's not going to work properly?  Grrrrrr.

Anyone else installed automatic backwash valves and is my setup incorrect and how does the automatic backwash work?

Looking online for a manual.

 

He just needed to shift the blame to you.  His answer makes no sense.

I am guessing you have this problem. The backwash requires constant pressure at the filter inlet and if your well pump is operating off a float switch the backwash can only work when the float switch is calling the well pump.

We have similar arrangement on a RO system sediment filter where the back wash controller calls the feed pump directly during its backwash cycle.

 

 

 

Manual for you controller

https://ventar.ru/sites/default/files/Runxin_MANUAL_Auto_55_65_75_Q_201907_EN_EXT.pdf
 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

I am guessing you have this problem. The backwash requires constant pressure at the filter inlet and if your well pump is operating off a float switch the backwash can only work when the float switch is calling the well pump.

We have similar arrangement on a RO system sediment filter where the back wash controller calls the feed pump directly during its backwash cycle.

 

 

 

Manual for you controller

https://ventar.ru/sites/default/files/Runxin_MANUAL_Auto_55_65_75_Q_201907_EN_EXT.pdf
 

Thanks very much. 

Yes we have a float switch that signals the controller.

But why can't it then backwash when the submersible pump is on?

8 minutes ago, carlyai said:

But why can't it then backwash when the submersible pump is on?

 

Does the auto backwash override the float switch?

Something is really off here because why would someone install an auto backwash valve in such a way that it cant auto backwash unless there was an agreement to use the manual function only.
 

 

 

53 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

Does the auto backwash override the float switch?

Something is really off here because why would someone install an auto backwash valve in such a way that it cant auto backwash unless there was an agreement to use the manual function only.
 

 

 

Got me.

I talked to the water guys when they came first for a look and one of the things I said was I want automatic backwashing as I keep forgetting to manually backwash. 

We have no brime or regenerative tanks only the automatic backwash on the magnesium tank and carbon tank.

Before I used to turn the pump off and manually switch from filter to backwash, turn the pump on until water clear, pump off, move switch to rinse. etc.

I don't see why this should be too difficult automatically.

I've read the handbook, thanks again for that, but will have to read it many more times to sink in.

Another thing I have found troubling is they charged me about B4000 per valve when they are only about usd 75.

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Got me.

I talked to the water guys when they came first for a look and one of the things I said was I want automatic backwashing as I keep forgetting to manually backwash. 

We have no brime or regenerative tanks only the automatic backwash on the magnesium tank and carbon tank.

Before I used to turn the pump off and manually switch from filter to backwash, turn the pump on until water clear, pump off, move switch to rinse. etc.

I don't see why this should be too difficult automatically.

I've read the handbook, thanks again for that, but will have to read it many more times to sink in.

Another thing I have found troubling is they charged me about B4000 per valve when they are only about usd 75.

 

The automatic backwash valve should have auxiliary relay to call a feed pump which in your case is the well pump.

 

If this is the arrangement you have then automatic backwashing should work exactly the same as when you were doing it manually.

1 hour ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

The automatic backwash valve should have auxiliary relay to call a feed pump which in your case is the well pump.

 

If this is the arrangement you have then automatic backwashing should work exactly the same as when you were doing it manually.

No this is not the arrangement. The float valve is in the tank and when the water drops it operates (s/c and o/c) and goes to the pump controller that starts the well pump.

No relays or connections from the automatic backwash to the pump controller.

 

 

6 minutes ago, carlyai said:

No this is not the arrangement. The float valve is in the tank and when the water drops it operates (s/c and o/c) and goes to the pump controller that starts the well pump.

No relays or connections from the automatic backwash to the pump controller.

 

 

 

Then the automatic backwash process cannot start flow for its backwash. 

 

Your valve installers will likely now charge to make connection between backwash valve and pump control. 
 

4 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

Then the automatic backwash process cannot start flow for its backwash. 

 

Your valve installers will likely now charge to make connection between backwash valve and pump control. 
 

Or I can connect it up the way I had it before from the well pump to the tank then backwash filters, bigblue, house pump.?

9 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Or I can connect it up the way I had it before from the well pump to the tank then backwash filters, bigblue, house pump.?

 

Yes then the backwash cycle would use the automatic house pump with no need for it to call a pump.

Thanks very much for your trouble. 🙂

Couldnt find your F1Q1. Also in pdf file not shown, all other models.

Some with time settings others in flow settings and with flowmeter

I give you this one 

 

Logo is same as yours, maybe more modern.

Maybe programming is more or less the same.

It is factory set and at one point in program , you see, you can set when to backwash in DAYS !

SO yours is set in how many days to do so? It will not be activated until that time has gone.

And then it starts on the daytime, you set. Also mentioned. 

You want to see it run, then you have to set those parameters in your way and watch.

Also of course the clock has to be set. Standard backwashing time is set on 10 minutes, check if it is so and /or change it.

Maybe the funny Thai waterguys adjusted some parameters and have to come back, costing again?

As usual the people explaining are fast in word, but ok you can repeat and repeat as many as you want.

 

You are backwashing with wellwater, so in that case, you must have power on wellpump.

The well pump is controlled with the floatswitch. So only when level in tank is low and pump runs, the backwash can run.

Mind, if it is the time ! 

If level in tank is full, pump shut off and therefor stops backwashing, But will probably not happen. As system is on backwash valves are on backwash direction, and then you have outlet to sewer, drain. And therefor no water is coming in tank and level stays low, so backwash can run till end. Then switches over, when done (time) , valves will set back normal and tank will be filled up till floatswitch kills pump.

 

I also do see the system needs a pressure from 1.5- 6bar. SO what is the pressure of your wellpump?

The recommendation at least below 6 bar, you would need a pressure regulator for the water pressure.

And for low pressure  even a booster pump. Given in pdf file.

Too high it can break some. Too low and filter backwashing doesnt work.

 

 

The water guys came yesterday and now I understand, sort of, what he was saying in machine gun Lao/Thai.

He was saying the backwash would not happen until the tank water was low, in other words until the float switch operation called the well pump, but at the same time the automatic values on the 2 filters timing had moved to backwash. So hit and miss backwash.

Changed the configuration to well pump first, then filters then house pump (same as I had it originally), now at 0600 and 0630 the valves call the house pump and backwash for 10 minutes daily.

That part all sorted.

Next when I checked the operation of the float valve found that the switch had HR contacts, so installed a new float valve.

All set. 🙂

First situation, indeed if backwash is asked, but float switch is not on on, then it will act, but not do as pump will be off. The backwash unit is nothing but a timer controlled switch, of valves.

Putting the backwash on the house pump is different, as that pump is pressure controlled.

The bw unit switches, pressure gets low and pump is on for backwash. You altered pipes and use clean water.

 

Maybe you should think about set time of 10 minutes, maybe 5 minutes is long enough?

It saves you in electricity and clean water for bw. Also period of bw, maybe once in 3- 5 days or so.

All is depending on how much dirt is filtered, quality of well water.

You can easily see when system is on bw and watch the drain, water coming out and in what time it is clear.

Wouldnt take it any longer then needed, but ok my opinion. I dont like to waist too much, it is money down the drain then, literary. 555

You could spread the bw water in your garden then. Plants will love it. Water will sink in soil again and is filtered by land, so clean water back in well, maybe eventually

 

10 minutes of lets say 36 ltr/min (HItachi 150 W pump spec) is 360 ltr! And that every day.

365 days X 10 minutes is 60 hours. Is 60 X 150/1000 =9 kWh electricity/year. OK is 45 baht.

But ok you use it and throw it away. And using fresh water, your system has to fill up again, so starting well pump. filter it and putting it in tank. Well pump doing 200- 1000 W, depending how deep , bigger the pump is.

Also costing. Frequency of use will rise, so when it will break down then, wear?

Ever taken out a well pump? I did this year and luckily it was only 24 meters down. and a small one.

A crime, luckily also had Thai family helping.?👍

 

What can happen now is, bw starts , valves are switched.

Tank gets low in level and starts wellpump. Water of well pump can not go anywhere, as valves are switched for 10 minutes bw. So wellpump is running against closed pipe and is not good for wellpump.

To prevent this, only a flowswitch is helping. Contact is NC then and in serie with levelswitch.

No flow, contact is closed and well pump is controlled by level. If flow to bw, then contact opens and blocks wellpump to be started by levelswitch. Peddle flowmeters, but have to be in range of max flow of your pump.

and with the right diameter of course for fitting in. 

 

however mind here, if there is no water to bw from tank, then housepump will run dry and also not good. SO at least you have to keep at all times 500 ltr in tank for a wb.

However you get in again a problem when you start also using water in the house, not only it drains the 500 ltr but also effects bw. It gets less. But bw doesnt mind as it is running on time, maybe less bw,

Then best is to have at least 1000 ltr of water as minimum level in the tank. Levelswitch from min 1000 ltr and max 3000 ltr, as thats max volume.

I know it is on early morning bw set , but ...

However bw and filling can start simultaneous now and not good for wellpump.

Yes all is if if if, but if it pops up, you have the troubles.

 

btw Float valve? I know in toilet but on your water system? HR contacts? what are that on that float valve?

 

7 hours ago, xtrnuno41 said:

First situation, indeed if backwash is asked, but float switch is not on on, then it will act, but not do as pump will be off. The backwash unit is nothing but a timer controlled switch, of valves.

Putting the backwash on the house pump is different, as that pump is pressure controlled.

The bw unit switches, pressure gets low and pump is on for backwash. You altered pipes and use clean water.

 

Maybe you should think about set time of 10 minutes, maybe 5 minutes is long enough?

It saves you in electricity and clean water for bw. Also period of bw, maybe once in 3- 5 days or so.

All is depending on how much dirt is filtered, quality of well water.

You can easily see when system is on bw and watch the drain, water coming out and in what time it is clear.

Wouldnt take it any longer then needed, but ok my opinion. I dont like to waist too much, it is money down the drain then, literary. 555

You could spread the bw water in your garden then. Plants will love it. Water will sink in soil again and is filtered by land, so clean water back in well, maybe eventually

 

10 minutes of lets say 36 ltr/min (HItachi 150 W pump spec) is 360 ltr! And that every day.

365 days X 10 minutes is 60 hours. Is 60 X 150/1000 =9 kWh electricity/year. OK is 45 baht.

But ok you use it and throw it away. And using fresh water, your system has to fill up again, so starting well pump. filter it and putting it in tank. Well pump doing 200- 1000 W, depending how deep , bigger the pump is.

Also costing. Frequency of use will rise, so when it will break down then, wear?

Ever taken out a well pump? I did this year and luckily it was only 24 meters down. and a small one.

A crime, luckily also had Thai family helping.?👍

 

What can happen now is, bw starts , valves are switched.

Tank gets low in level and starts wellpump. Water of well pump can not go anywhere, as valves are switched for 10 minutes bw. So wellpump is running against closed pipe and is not good for wellpump.

To prevent this, only a flowswitch is helping. Contact is NC then and in serie with levelswitch.

No flow, contact is closed and well pump is controlled by level. If flow to bw, then contact opens and blocks wellpump to be started by levelswitch. Peddle flowmeters, but have to be in range of max flow of your pump.

and with the right diameter of course for fitting in. 

 

however mind here, if there is no water to bw from tank, then housepump will run dry and also not good. SO at least you have to keep at all times 500 ltr in tank for a wb.

However you get in again a problem when you start also using water in the house, not only it drains the 500 ltr but also effects bw. It gets less. But bw doesnt mind as it is running on time, maybe less bw,

Then best is to have at least 1000 ltr of water as minimum level in the tank. Levelswitch from min 1000 ltr and max 3000 ltr, as thats max volume.

I know it is on early morning bw set , but ...

However bw and filling can start simultaneous now and not good for wellpump.

Yes all is if if if, but if it pops up, you have the troubles.

 

btw Float valve? I know in toilet but on your water system? HR contacts? what are that on that float valve?

 

Thanks for your concern and reply.

HR contacts are High Resistance (HR) contacts. The float valve has contacts that go from Open Circuit (O/C) to Short Circuit (S/C). When I checked the resistance of the wires from the float switch to the pump controller, when the float switch contacts switched the resistance floated high, so reading was initially S/C but then floated higher resistance.

 

The water tank (with the float switch) is filled from the well pump directly. So the float switch contacts go the the well pump controller.

The water filters and automatic valves are on the house pump, which is on the output of the water tank, so backwash calls the house pump not the well pump. Therefore the well pump can fill the tank at the same time as the filters are backwashed.

At the moment the backwash is setup every morning from 0630, 10 mins. then the other filter for 10 mins. 🙂