6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Quite, but there is no pleasing some, they whinge about too many Asian tourists and then whinge about the government if the numbers start falling.

Some European countries are now suffering from the cost of long haul. Brits can get a week's holiday, fully inclusive, in Europe for less than a ticket to Thailand.

In June I went from the UK to Morocco, fully inclusive on BA with all our luggage to a very nice resort for just over £600 per person. Last month I was £650 on Emirates just to get to Gatwick, is it any wonder the numbers are down.

Uk numbers for 2025 were 13.66 % up.

On 11/5/2025 at 3:29 AM, ChaiyaTH said:

Way too high prices with increasingly worse service, less smiles and 3 main countries that annoy most other people (russians, ukranians, israelis). To then add the cherry on top: the ping pong show of the government with ever changing rules.

You forgot the Arabs and the great unwashed Indians. 🤷🏼

15 hours ago, kwilco said:

The military's policy of escalating border conflict with Cambodia hasn't helped.

 

Other countries (especially long-haul) are feeling the pinch financially, and of course that which made Thailand so attractive is now covered in concrete.

Oh that pocked a memory! I used to live and dive on Kow Taow, it was a beautiful life in the early 2000's. Sand streets, slow and easy. Then they concreted the roads which totally changed the hart of the island (the murders also). Never went back.

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I find Thailand exceptionally cheap, but I'm not a tourist in Pattaya/Phuket.

Normal day to day living in a nice house is for a minimal cost.

 

For tourists it's the expensive flight costs putting everyone off.

Flight from Heathrow to Spain/Portugal/Bulgaria $50

Flight from Heathrow to Bangkok $500.

Complete BS obviously, the same tourists all fly to Vietnam which often is even more expensive than Bangkok is if not just the same. The few years prices were very high are long gone too, there is no difference at all compared to when I flew from Europe to Bangkok 14 years ago. With a stop over I can still get a 600 euro round way trip while direct with Thai airways often is even just 400 euro one way or 800 euro both ways.

 

Flight costs in general had zero to do with the peak tourist counts were during the higher price years as well. Neither do most people care much about the exchange rates, they just take it for what it is based on their home currency budget + checking flights and hotel deals upfront.

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I find Thailand exceptionally cheap, but I'm not a tourist in Pattaya/Phuket.

Normal day to day living in a nice house is for a minimal cost.

 

For tourists it's the expensive flight costs putting everyone off.

Flight from Heathrow to Spain/Portugal/Bulgaria $50

Flight from Heathrow to Bangkok $500.

£500/$500 Heathrow to BKK?! I think not....

 

I booked a BKK-LHR--BKK flight yesterday for midweek departure late February, return midweek early March and EVA Air economy direct was £900, business which I booked cost £2740. The existing LHR-BKK-LHR I'd I already had booked (Jan-May) were similar priced, just a tad cheaper. 

 

When I looked on Skyscanner at those with connections/long layovers...nothing at that priced. £650 is the cheapest. No-one has offered return flight for £500 in economy for a long time that I know of. 

 

As for tourist numbers, Thailand is not that cheap now and hasn't been for a while. Yes, if you live away from Bangkok or tourist areas and live a quiet life. My grocery and toiletries bill from is more reasonable in the UK than Big C or Foodland and the choice and quality of produce is far better. Vietnam is cheaper (for now) but I found I still prefer the Thai vibe, despite the gripes. I'm glad numbers are dropping though, they have become too high and led to complacency, overcrowding etc.   

The problem with these numbers is there more than likely based on computer scale projections and very ineffective and poor quality AI. They're not based on what's actually happening on the ground, they're not taking into account the dozen areas that Thailand never addressed that need to be fixed, they're not taking into account the world economy, the lack of consumer confidence, the distance to Thailand from Europe and the US, and a multitude of other factors.

 

Combine that with government appointees who are not particularly talented nor that intelligent, and you have projections all over the map .

On 11/4/2025 at 10:22 PM, ikke1959 said:

No wonder.. I am beginning to understand why too.. The Thai Government is treating people like kids.. They control everything, as there is in fact no freedom...check where you stay, when you can drink and when not, what to wear, smoking allowed or vaping or not,  double pricing everywhere, hospitals, national parks, even sometimes in restauarants, and as long term residents, you bare treated like prisoners, with 90 days reports( even released convicts don't need to do that), address notifications( Thai people can live where they want as the blue book is never updated), not allowed to do anything etc ..

 

I understand why people are avoiding Thailand more and more, although the country is lovely, the food is good and in the non touristic areas the people are friendly, anyway there is a lot of work to do to get tourists again

My first visit was in 2004.  have been 15 times and getting my non imm O visa now as I plan to spend just under 6 months of each year there (avoiding any residency tax issues that may or may not become troublesome).  I think it really started getting bad in pattaya back when the Russians finnagled some sort of relaxed visa scheme around 2008? or so if my memory serves.  I remember while getting a foot massage and chatting with the old ladies there and they all said "Russia too much" .  Then that big Bangkok flood meant that many many people flocked to Pattaya as it had some infrastructure and was kind of affordable for them.  Then the massive Chinese group tour thing.  That was so bad as the tour groups didn't contribute much to the traditional Pattaya economy.  They stayed in chinese controlled hotels, ate fixed meals at those hotels, did not go to bars or gogos much at all.  Now the large number of Indians are just doing Indian group things.   Pattaya and by extension Bangkok is so much different nationality wise than before.  Gosh in Pattaya, remember the Pig and Whistle, Butchers Arms pub, German Brauhaus on second road and the Austrian Domocile a few doors down.  Always busy during high season and open during low.  The old days are long gone

10 hours ago, MarkyM3 said:

When I looked on Skyscanner at those with connections/long layovers...nothing at that priced. £650 is the cheapest. No-one has offered return flight for £500 in economy for a long time that I know of. 

Where did I mention 'return'?

10 hours ago, MarkyM3 said:

As for tourist numbers, Thailand is not that cheap now and hasn't been for a while. Yes, if you live away from Bangkok or tourist areas and live a quiet life. My grocery and toiletries bill from is more reasonable in the UK than Big C or Foodland and the choice and quality of produce is far better. Vietnam is cheaper (for now) but I found I still prefer the Thai vibe, despite the gripes. I'm glad numbers are dropping though, they have become too high and led to complacency, overcrowding etc.   

Can't say my 100% Brit diet costs me any more in Thailand than the UK.

And any small extra costs on food are saved by massive savings on house, heating, car and utils.

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Can't say my 100% Brit diet costs me any more in Thailand than the UK.

And any small extra costs on food are saved by massive savings on house, heating, car and utils.

Dude you live half way in the sticks, never go out or do a thing, and make most of your own meals. It would be shocking if that was 'expensive', you can live such lifestyle in virtually any country on earth, if living in similar areas of those countries, comparable to outskirts of CM.

 

Good for you to have made it work but maybe stop to think this is a realistic comparison lol, or even relevant to most people. It's very clear that either you or your current misses are 2 decisions away to be bankrupt.

18 hours ago, Anthony mellows said:

Uk numbers for 2025 were 13.66 % up.

Up on what?

Increasing year by year but still below the pre covid level. The rise in air fares post covid probably the most significant deterrent, but they are beginning to stabilise, I was the same this year as last.

However I suspect the increasing numbers are singles rather than families.

14 hours ago, MarkyM3 said:

£500/$500 Heathrow to BKK?! I think not....

 

I booked a BKK-LHR--BKK flight yesterday for midweek departure late February, return midweek early March and EVA Air economy direct was £900, business which I booked cost £2740. The existing LHR-BKK-LHR I'd I already had booked (Jan-May) were similar priced, just a tad cheaper. 

 

When I looked on Skyscanner at those with connections/long layovers...nothing at that priced. £650 is the cheapest. No-one has offered return flight for £500 in economy for a long time that I know of. 

 

As for tourist numbers, Thailand is not that cheap now and hasn't been for a while. Yes, if you live away from Bangkok or tourist areas and live a quiet life. My grocery and toiletries bill from is more reasonable in the UK than Big C or Foodland and the choice and quality of produce is far better. Vietnam is cheaper (for now) but I found I still prefer the Thai vibe, despite the gripes. I'm glad numbers are dropping though, they have become too high and led to complacency, overcrowding etc.   

I think you misread the post, I took it as $500 single.

I would agree with most of what you said, Thailand is certainly not cheap for tourists and in particular for families, a bit like many other countries. Why the "all inclusive" has become so popular.

On 11/6/2025 at 1:18 AM, DonniePeverley said:

Visa free for trashy tourists has harmed the image. 

 

 

I do not think you can really blame the tourists... when the Thais allow them to enter openly and do not watch them because they are so busy with the long time residents checking in. Then of course you have the costs rising in everything but the service dwindles. 

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Up on what?

Increasing year by year but still below the pre covid level. The rise in air fares post covid probably the most significant deterrent, but they are beginning to stabilise, I was the same this year as last.

However I suspect the increasing numbers are singles rather than families.

Compared to the same 9 month period last year.These figures are from the Nation media outlet, so not sure how reliable they are..

13 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Where did I mention 'return'?

It was in the context of tourist numbers. Tourists usually have to return do they not......? 

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Can't say my 100% Brit diet costs me any more in Thailand than the UK.

And any small extra costs on food are saved by massive savings on house, heating, car and utils.

As ChaiyaTH said, you post regularly on your circumstances....recall you live in a gated community around Chiang Mai and cook basic meals at home and don't do much of what tourists would do. So it's really apples and oranges comparison to the topic at hand...which is tourism. More relevant to a long-term retiree discussion. 

 

Anyways, I doubt supermarket prices are much different outside Bangkok. I travel between UK and Bangkok and have a pretty good idea of what the cost differentials are for the stuff I buy and what's available. I don't doubt heating, car and util costs are cheaper than Europe but again, it's not related to tourism. 

 

Accommodation, including hotels and apartments, is cheaper for sure than UK and other developed countries but so it should be - the average wage in the developed countries far higher than Thailand. As far as tourist costs go and where they stay, it isn't that cheap now vs their local competitors. And places like Phuket, Samui and Pattaya are losing/lost their allure with the over-development and clamour for more tourist numbers 

16 minutes ago, MarkyM3 said:

It was in the context of tourist numbers. Tourists usually have to return do they not......? 

Package tourists, yes

Slow tourists, no

Backpackers, no

Only 92.78% more to go, then Thailand will be bliss again!

 

When is the worlwide covid "scare" coming for round 2 ?

12 hours ago, sandyf said:

Up on what?

Increasing year by year but still below the pre covid level. The rise in air fares post covid probably the most significant deterrent, but they are beginning to stabilise, I was the same this year as last.

However I suspect the increasing numbers are singles rather than families.

 

Wrong. You obviously haven't bothered to look at the numbers of UK tourists visiting in 2019 compared to 2024. Yet another lazy ignoramus so prevalent on these threads.

Too pricey, crap exchange rates, very scammy, better alternatives. That’s why it’s down. An overbearing changeable government probably isn’t noticed by tourists. Anyhoo, prices will escalate soon to make up the shortfall.

Preferred it when it was 10 million. Be good to see that again and Thailand have a more measured opinion of itself.  

On 11/5/2025 at 8:25 AM, webfact said:

Foreign tourist arrivals in Thailand from January 1 to November 2 have decreased by 7.22% compared to the same period last year, according to the Tourism and Sports Ministry. The total number of foreign visitors during this period was reported at 26.89 million. Malaysia emerged as the largest source market with 3.88 million visitors, closely followed by China, contributing 3.8 million.

Still ahead in the Asian region, but slipping as other countries increase facilities and Thailand stays the same or worse.

I here Portugal or even Spain is the new digital nomad place to be.

I've maintained for years planning laws should be removed by local governors in Thailand. Heritage sites, historical sites to the past all bulldozed to make way for condos, malls etc

 

VIETNAM despite a brutal war has preserved so much of it's history. It actively has zones that are protected from any sort of development.  It makes for such a beautiful tourism experience. 

 

Vietnam is also safe.

 

. You need a visa if you are indian to get a visa to come here.

Total utter BS and TAT Lies.  The numbers of Foreign tourists are down at least 10-15% across Thailand.  TAT are doing deceitful things when counting Tourists - like counting every short-term border walker from Malaysia as a Tourist and then claiming they each spend 59,000 Baht. Tourists from Malaysia are the allegedly biggest number in Thailand - anyone seen lots of them around??   We travel a bit and we lots of Indians, and many Russians/Ukrainians and Chinese - but we see SFA Malays.

 

It is a lot worse than TAT is admitting - because their clear objective is to fudge the numbers - the same as every other corrupted Government organisation in Thailand. The Thailand economy is tanking - big time - it is in recession and they are refusing to admit it. Meanwhile, despite their lies, they can only claim 1-2% PA GDP growth since Covid, when Vietnam has been growing between 6-8% every year. Malaysia is growing 3-5% PA since Covid, and Indonesia is growing 4-5% PA, and Philippines is 6-8% PA. 

 

Thailand is in very very serious economic trouble - the extremely high Baht since the Junta in 2014 is not only now killing Tourism from most countries, it has severely damaged Thailand's manufacturing base, and is slowing agricultural exports.  The failure of Thailand to address the systemic problems, and its predication to apply band-aids has been failing for a long time - the golden goose is in decline.  Thailand is selling off more and more of its gold reserves, and uses its almost gone financial reserves to buy the Baht and keep it high to lower the costs of imports and Government (Military) purchases. Their total fantasy that Tourism is the answer is slowly falling apart, and as always the truth with eventually come out - and perhaps other crash like the 90s will eventuate.  Idiotic short term 'solutions' like appeasing their Chinese overlords by banning Casinos and the latest in limiting alcohol, in order to get the Chinese Government to send more tourists to Thailand, is a totally flawed strategy.  The sooner Thailand destroys and removes all Junta imposed pro-China policies and decisions, the better off Thailand will become and the quicker the recovery will occur for the benefit of all Thai People not just the Wealthy.  Remember that during Covid the rich got very rich - it is what they do - and the Thai wealthy elite have been doing it for generations.  

 

Make no mistake guys, the next election in Thailand will be gigantic.  The People's Power are still strong and if they win Government thru elections, the existing pro-China pro-Military pro-Wealthy elite powers will have a lot to lose.  They will stop at nothing (coup?) to keep their control and their wealth growing - it could get very very ugly.  The Thai People have had enough and if what happened at the last election and immediately afterwards happens again, things will get very bad.  Perhaps I am being over-negative - but I am very concerned things are going to 'blow'. 

22 hours ago, Anthony mellows said:

Compared to the same 9 month period last year.These figures are from the Nation media outlet, so not sure how reliable they are..

Yes indeed there has been annual increases since covid, and on the basis that pre and post figures are unreliable, not back to where they were said to be.

On 11/6/2025 at 2:31 PM, newnative said:

       With TAT's beginning of the year projection, it likely used the previous year's figures and then plugged in other factors to come up with their projection--which is just that, a projection, not a 'promise'.  As the year progresses, and more data comes in, the projection can be adjusted, up or down, which TAT has done.  Very normal.

       There's nothing mysterious or sinister here and it's no different than what other businesses do.  For example, I have a Schwab stock account and, right now, I can click on 'Investment Income' on my account and Schwab will tell me what my projected dividend income will be in 2026.  Will it actually be that income figure?  Likely not.  Likely the dividends for some of my stocks will be adjusted, which will change the final figure of dividend income received in 2026.   Likely I will also buy or sell dividend stocks in 2026, which will also change the projection.  Very normal, too.

Not quite normal is the fact that TAT's projections are without fail overly optimistic and adjustments go in one direction only .... down.

On 11/5/2025 at 4:29 AM, ChaiyaTH said:

Way too high prices with increasingly worse service, less smiles and 3 main countries that annoy most other people (russians, ukranians, israelis). To then add the cherry on top: the ping pong show of the government with ever changing rules.

´travel arround, everywhere more expensive, thai is not the hotspot for expensive

hmm to me other countys anoying drunk british, nigerian, and cheap indians ok israelis too  i go on.....???

 

all bull<deleted> EU countrys are not more on top of the world ,even they think so  and many shows in their arrogant behaviour