4 minutes ago, transam said:

Are you a Commie...?

I think he works on a farm ……catch my drift?

2 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

AI quickie Gemini:

 

No Fixed Priority: Under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (FRCP), which many state courts follow, the methods of discovery may be used in any sequence by either party. The fact that one party is conducting discovery does not delay the other party's discovery.

Initial Disclosures: Federal practice promotes concurrent discovery, starting with mandatory initial disclosures by both sides shortly after the case begins and the parties have held a discovery-planning conference.

_________________________

AI Quickie Gemini Take 2

Attorney: The family is represented by Dan Kovalik, an American human rights lawyer.
Legal Action: Kovalik is preparing to file a legal claim, likely in the United States, to seek compensation for the family and to challenge the legality of the U.S. strikes in international waters.
Claims: The lawsuit is expected to argue that the killing constituted "murder" and an "extrajudicial killing," and that the individuals on the boat, even if suspected of drug trafficking, should have been arrested and given due process, not killed.

Boom!

2 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Defendant goes first in discovery when it gets that far. 

Splat!

3 hours ago, jerrymahoney said:

AI quickie Gemini:

 

No Fixed Priority: Under the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (FRCP), which many state courts follow, the methods of discovery may be used in any sequence by either party. The fact that one party is conducting discovery does not delay the other party's discovery.

Initial Disclosures: Federal practice promotes concurrent discovery, starting with mandatory initial disclosures by both sides shortly after the case begins and the parties have held a discovery-planning conference.

_________________________

AI Quickie Gemini Take 2

Attorney: The family is represented by Dan Kovalik, an American human rights lawyer.
Legal Action: Kovalik is preparing to file a legal claim, likely in the United States, to seek compensation for the family and to challenge the legality of the U.S. strikes in international waters.
Claims: The lawsuit is expected to argue that the killing constituted "murder" and an "extrajudicial killing," and that the individuals on the boat, even if suspected of drug trafficking, should have been arrested and given due process, not killed.

Heres the article that was behind the paywall

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/deliver-or-die-inside-the-drug-boat-crews-ferrying-cocaine-to-the-us/ar-AA1Ripm3?ocid=BingNewsSerp

 

You are correct about discovery.

 

Going to be some interesting issues. Its a loser but still interesting.

1 hour ago, Tug said:

I think he works on a farm ……catch my drift?

What kind of Farm?  The kind you like? catch my drift?

29 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Heres the article that was behind the paywall

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/deliver-or-die-inside-the-drug-boat-crews-ferrying-cocaine-to-the-us/ar-AA1Ripm3?ocid=BingNewsSerp

 

You are correct about discovery.

 

Going to be some interesting issues. Its a loser but still interesting.

Here's a little tidbit from that article:

"Some crews run the entire route themselves—from Colombia to Honduras or even Mexico"

Honduras whose corrupt ex-President bribed by El Chapo to work with the cartels to transport cocaine into America is about to be sprung from prison by Trump. Or so he says.

3 hours ago, Fact said:

None of you spoke up when Obama did it. You suffer from selective outrage. 

That is so totally untrue, people with an objective mind are willing to criticize the politician whoever they are and whatever side they're on if their policy is ridiculous. During the 20 years that Clinton, Obama and Biden were presidents, I never hesitated to criticize their policies and I very often did so.

 

I see very little of that coming from the MAGA devotees, especially on this forum. 

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Here's a little tidbit from that article:

"Some crews run the entire route themselves—from Colombia to Honduras or even Mexico"

Honduras whose corrupt ex-President bribed by El Chapo to work with the cartels to transport cocaine into America is about to be sprung from prison by Trump. Or so he says.

And it's rather ironic that he's using the drug running as a justification for slaughtering dozens of people from Venezuela that he claims are smuggling drugs, and then he lets out a former drug lord who collected tens of millions of dollars in bribes from the cartels, to allow drug transshipments through his nation, during his tenure.

 

Such blazing hypocrisy that is so typical of the goon. 

18 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

International law says these types of attacks are illegal. As Paul Friedman and others have pointed out, there is no second order analysis being done by this administration. They've been getting away with this because they are bullying a small Latin American country, and conducting these operations on the high seas where holding them accountable is difficult. But no one stops to consider that if the US is asserting the right to conduct these operations, what's going to happen when a more powerful state like China or Russia decides to start sinking ships they claim are involved in operations they deem to be terrorist activities? I'll tell you what: chaos and geopolitical instability. MAGA's willingness to ignore the rule of law and go along with Trump's lawlessness is shameful. 

While that's true, everything about Trump and his band of circus clowns is shameful, from the lack of experience and the lack of merit to gain the initial appointment, to the conduct once appointed, this is truly the Ringling Brothers Circus Revisited. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

And it's rather ironic that he's using the drug running as a justification for slaughtering dozens of people from Venezuela that he claims are smuggling drugs, and then he lets out a former drug lord who collected tens of millions of dollars in bribes from the cartels, to allow drug transshipments through his nation, during his tenure.

 

Such blazing hypocrisy that is so typical of the goon. 

What makes it worse is that most of Venezuela's transshipped cocaine goes to Europe whereas the cocaine transhipped via Honduras is mostly bound for the USA. It's kind of remarkable that Trump, despite what he professes to believe, is willing to put the interests of the Europeans above those of his own country.

5 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Is this a real photo ? How can the American flag reflect from behind him in his sunglasses ?

I don't get it.

 

Advice for those with learning difficulties,   If any others are  struggling in silence to understand  the reflection in his sunglasses, simply imagine an American flag in front of him it might be easier if you imagine two, one for each lens.

41 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

While that's true, everything about Trump and his band of circus clowns is shameful, from the lack of experience and the lack of merit to gain the initial appointment, to the conduct once appointed, this is truly the Ringling Brothers Circus Revisited. 

Ringling Brothers, dad PT Barnum impresario. The circus animals were smarter than these clowns. Just look how many foxes they packed into that clown car! 

4 hours ago, Yagoda said:

So do you think Barak Obama murdered an American citizen?

 

Yes.

 

Obama exectively ordered the execution of American citizens by drone strike without trial.

 

Murder.

 

Obama needs drawing and quartering.

3 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Its a loser but still interesting.

And the government can settle without admitting guilt. Any case against the Federal government the odds are against you.  But

 

“That's why they play the game.” 

Didn't the Allies (including America) try and execute a number of Japanese and German submarine captains for shooting survivors in the water, survivors from ships that they had sunk?

 

It was a war crime then.

 

32 minutes ago, JAG said:

Didn't the Allies (including America) try and execute a number of Japanese and German submarine captains for shooting survivors in the water, survivors from ships that they had sunk?

 

It was a war crime then.

 

 

It's different when we do it ™

On 11/29/2025 at 4:05 PM, bannork said:

When two survivors emerged from the wreckage, a Special Operations commander overseeing the attack ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth’s instructions to “kill everybody,” according to The Washington Post, citing officials with direct knowledge of the operation.

In briefing materials provided to the White House, JSOC reported that the “double-tap,” or follow-on strike, was intended to sink the boat and remove a navigation hazard to other vessels — not to kill survivors, according to another person who saw the report.

On 11/29/2025 at 4:05 PM, bannork said:

When two survivors emerged from the wreckage, a Special Operations commander overseeing the attack ordered a second strike to comply with Hegseth’s instructions to “kill everybody,” according to The Washington Post, citing officials with direct knowledge of the operation.

 

 

In briefing materials provided to the White House, JSOC reported that the “double-tap,” or follow-on strike, was intended to sink the boat and remove a navigation hazard to other vessels — not to kill survivors, according to another person who saw the report.

2 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

 

 

In briefing materials provided to the White House, JSOC reported that the “double-tap,” or follow-on strike, was intended to sink the boat and remove a navigation hazard to other vessels — not to kill survivors, according to another person who saw the report.

If they hadn't blown it up in the first place then the wreckage wouldn't pose a hazard to other vessels...

 

A 21st century version of "we had to destroy the village in order to save it"?

"Double tap" is something of a misnomer - it is a military practice by which you fire two shots in close succession, using the same point of aim, principally to increase the chance of hitting a moving target.

 

Rather different to shooting  someone, then on investigating the body, discovering that they are still alive, and so "finishing them off" - or the maritime equivalent - and that is a war crime!

I too don't believe he would be that stupid, but being given the job he has, maybe his ego is tainting his judgement. He has renamed himself the Secretary of War after all.

 

That being said, if he did do it, justice will catch up with him. It might take until Trump is ousted, but a Presidential pardon won't cover war crimes.

2 hours ago, JAG said:

"Double tap" is something of a misnomer - it is a military practice by which you fire two shots in close succession, using the same point of aim, principally to increase the chance of hitting a moving target.

 

Rather different to shooting  someone, then on investigating the body, discovering that they are still alive, and so "finishing them off" - or the maritime equivalent - and that is a war crime!

 

Current use of the "double-tap" involves hitting a target, either military or civilian, and then waiting for rescue crews to arrive before firing the second missile.

3 hours ago, JAG said:

Didn't the Allies (including America) try and execute a number of Japanese and German submarine captains for shooting survivors in the water, survivors from ships that they had sunk?

 

It was a war crime then.

 

 

"After World War II, we tried, convicted, and, in some cases, executed Japanese soldiers for war crimes that included charges of waterboarding."

 

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2015/jan/12/bobby-scott/bobby-scott-after-wwii-us-executed-japanese-war-cr/

 

 

Two United States soldiers and one South Vietnamese soldier waterboard a captured North Vietnamese prisoner of war near Da Nang. Published on the front cover of The Washington Post on 21 January 1968.

 

'Rectal Hydration': Inside the CIA's Interrogation of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

 

The CIA waterboarded the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks 183 times among other tactics with names like "rectal rehydration," a Senate report says.

 

IMPOSING SANCTIONS ON THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT   

February 6, 2025

 

    I, DONALD J. TRUMP, President of the United States of America, find that the International Criminal Court (ICC), as established by the Rome Statute, has engaged in illegitimate and baseless actions targeting America and our close ally Israel.  The ICC has, without a legitimate basis, asserted jurisdiction over and opened preliminary investigations concerning personnel of the United States and certain of its allies, including Israel, and has further abused its power by issuing baseless arrest warrants targeting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Former Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant.

 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/imposing-sanctions-on-the-international-criminal-court/

 

 

 

Amongst the charges on which several of the top German Generals were arraigned before the Nuremburg War Crimes trials in 1946 was that they had promulgated, and acted upon Hitlers orders that allied (primarily but not solely British) commando soldiers were to be executed on capture despite being uniformed legitimate combatants. They were found guilty of war crimes, breaking the laws of armed conflict, several were hanged and others went to prison. Many others, particularly in the Balkans and Eastern Europe were convicted of similar crimes against civilians.

 

Convictions did not rest upon written orders, oral instructions were also taken as evidence of guilt.

"I was obeying orders" was dismissed as a defence.

 

There are precedents.

Can any of the local MAGATS reconcile this:

1. We are illegally murdering innocent people because " Cocaine unalive people"

2. Convicted Honduran cocaine smuggler gets "get out of jail free"?

And before any tawts say "not innocent": In MuriKKa, all innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

RE Venezuela:

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/16iVYq1n5X/

In apparent response to allegations that his lethal strikes targeting alleged drug traffickers amount to extrajudicial murder, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth posted an image of children’s book character Franklin the Turtle firing a rocket launcher from a helicopter.

 

On his personal X account on Sunday night, Hegseth posted an AI-generated book cover with the title Franklin Targets Narco Terrorists, with the titular turtle wearing combat gear and hanging outside a military helicopter as he takes aim at three boats below.

 

“For your Christmas wish list,” Hegseth wrote in the caption. He tagged U.S. Southern Command, which is overseeing American military operations targeting boats accused of smuggling drugs into the United States. More than 80 people have been killed in more than a dozen attacks over the last several months.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/pete-hegseth-franklin-meme-drug-boats-b2875907.html

 

 

In response, X users posted AI-generated Franklin covers of their own, with titles like Franklin Goes to The Hague, Franklin On Trial at the ICC, and Franklin Goes to Jail.

 

3 hours ago, bannork said:

In apparent response to allegations that his lethal strikes targeting alleged drug traffickers amount to extrajudicial murder, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth posted an image of children’s book character Franklin the Turtle firing a rocket launcher from a helicopter.

 

On his personal X account on Sunday night, Hegseth posted an AI-generated book cover with the title Franklin Targets Narco Terrorists, with the titular turtle wearing combat gear and hanging outside a military helicopter as he takes aim at three boats below.

 

“For your Christmas wish list,” Hegseth wrote in the caption. He tagged U.S. Southern Command, which is overseeing American military operations targeting boats accused of smuggling drugs into the United States. More than 80 people have been killed in more than a dozen attacks over the last several months.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/pete-hegseth-franklin-meme-drug-boats-b2875907.html

 

 

In response, X users posted AI-generated Franklin covers of their own, with titles like Franklin Goes to The Hague, Franklin On Trial at the ICC, and Franklin Goes to Jail.

 

There is a relatively recent German comedy film called "Jo-Jo Rabbit" which catalogues the adventures of a small boy as the Third Reich collapses around him. Many of the adult characters are portrayed as bizarre, darkly comedic and deluded devotees of a dystopian society. It is quite a funny film (although I struggled with the German dialogue and may have missed many of the subtler nuances); I don't think it was intended as a parody of Trumpian America but it works well as one! Hegseth and these sort of antics would absolutely fit right in!

21 hours ago, Peabody said:

Can any of the local MAGATS reconcile this:

1. We are illegally murdering innocent people because " Cocaine unalive people"

2. Convicted Honduran cocaine smuggler gets "get out of jail free"?

And before any tawts say "not innocent": In MuriKKa, all innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

C'mon, MAGATS. Put your money where your mouth is.

You CAN'T!!

On 12/1/2025 at 4:52 PM, phetphet said:

I too don't believe he would be that stupid, but being given the job he has, maybe his ego is tainting his judgement. He has renamed himself the Secretary of War after all.

 

That being said, if he did do it, justice will catch up with him. It might take until Trump is ousted, but a Presidential pardon won't cover war crimes.

There is nothing to stop Trump from pardoning him. It may be that venues outside of the US may claim jurisdiction but it might not be so easy to actually lay hands on him.