At this point it's become generally understood that Witkoff who has acted as Trump's envoy to Moscow (he's never even been to Ukraine) has proven himself to be a TRAITOR.

But who does Witkoff work for?

For Trump. Certainly not for the American people.

It's "interesting" to consider who Trump's best friends have been  -- Witkoff, Epstein, etc.

Here Meidas Touch Canada presents the argument that Trump himself is a traitor:

 

 

For people who like to call others traitor I suggest looking at the Constitution.

The last time someone was executed for treason in the United States was in 1862 when William Bruce Mumford was executed for tearing down the U.S. flag in New Orleans during the Civil War. The only other person executed for treason was Hipolito Salazar in 1847. 

 

7 minutes ago, Purdey said:

For people who like to call others traitor I suggest looking at the Constitution.

The last time someone was executed for treason in the United States was in 1862 when William Bruce Mumford was executed for tearing down the U.S. flag in New Orleans during the Civil War. The only other person executed for treason was Hipolito Salazar in 1847. 

 

I'm not suggesting any of these corrupt Trump regime pro Putin operatives are ever going to face any consequences but thanks for the background color.

The corruption of Trump and his operatives is EPIC!

America first?

You've got to be kidding.

Commentary by an actual conservative republican, a real one, not a Trump maga cult member

 

 

Your definition of a traitor is....interesting.

 

A man who puts the interests of his country ahead of the interests of a foreign country is a traitor.

A man who doesn't want to spend blood or treasure fixing territorial disputes in other places is a traitor. 

Gotcha. 

 

If you want to "stand with Ukraine", feel free. Donate money. House a refugee family. Hell, even stand with them on the front lines.  But enough of using other peoples' money to fund your geopolitical fantasies.

4 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Your definition of a traitor is....interesting.

 

A man who puts the interests of his country ahead of the interests of a foreign country is a traitor.

A man who doesn't want to spend blood or treasure fixing territorial disputes in other places is a traitor. 

Gotcha. 

 

If you want to "stand with Ukraine", feel free. Donate money. House a refugee family. Hell, even stand with them on the front lines.  But enough of using other peoples' money to fund your geopolitical fantasies.

Trump puts the interest of Trump above the interests of everything else and also he tends to favor. established enemies of the U.S. over established allies.

I realize that Trump thinks he is the same thing as the USA, but that is totally false.

I reject calling the Russia-Ukraine war a territorial dispute.

It's actually a genocidal ideological crusade by Putin to erase a separate Ukrainian identity from Russia.

American presidents are expected to oppose such things on a basic ideological level.

Trump believes in nothing except for Trump and tariffs.

Trump/Witkoff are trying to settle a war the US provoked. Couping off a legitimate government in Kiev, installing kleptocratic Nazis in their place who promptly started attacking ethnic Russians, creating dozens of CIA bases through the country and saying the next step was NATO membership for Ukraine was a stupid neocon idea. Obama was smart enough to understand this but too much of a wuss to say no.

 

In any case, it's too late. Trump/Witkoff's best intentions will come to nothing. Russia will take this war to it's logical conclusion which is to make sure Ukraine is reduced to a neutered rump state which is zero threat to Russia. Expect all east of the Dniepr plus Odesa and a way to Transnistria to become part of Russia.

 

It will take time. But Russia's in no rush. They don't do shock and awe or surge, followed but cut and run.

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

At this point it's become generally understood that Witkoff who has acted as Trump's envoy to Moscow (he's never even been to Ukraine) has proven himself to be a TRAITOR.

But who does Witkoff work for?

For Trump. Certainly not for the American people.

It's "interesting" to consider who Trump's best friends have been  -- Witkoff, Epstein, etc.

Here Meidas Touch Canada presents the argument that Trump himself is a traitor:

 

 

 

You like many others, hysterically throw out the term "traitor", devaluing the term. But it does usefully smoke out the Communist loons like @Autocan. People like Hanaguma are just clever dicks.

8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

At this point it's become generally understood that Witkoff who has acted as Trump's envoy to Moscow (he's never even been to Ukraine) has proven himself to be a TRAITOR.

But who does Witkoff work for?

For Trump. Certainly not for the American people.

It's "interesting" to consider who Trump's best friends have been  -- Witkoff, Epstein, etc.

Here Meidas Touch Canada presents the argument that Trump himself is a traitor:

 

 

How in the world can he possible be a traitor?   He is a US Citizen, not a citizen of Ukraine.  

6 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

 

You like many others, hysterically throw out the term "traitor", devaluing the term. But it does usefully smoke out the Communist loons like @Autocan. People like Hanaguma are just clever dicks.

The same goes his the OPs use of Fascism, Nazi, etc.

15 minutes ago, Autocan said:

Trump/Witkoff are trying to settle a war the US provoked. Couping off a legitimate government in Kiev, installing kleptocratic Nazis in their place who promptly started attacking ethnic Russians, creating dozens of CIA bases through the country and saying the next step was NATO membership for Ukraine was a stupid neocon idea. Obama was smart enough to understand this but too much of a wuss to say no.

 

In any case, it's too late. Trump/Witkoff's best intentions will come to nothing. Russia will take this war to it's logical conclusion which is to make sure Ukraine is reduced to a neutered rump state which is zero threat to Russia. Expect all east of the Dniepr plus Odesa and a way to Transnistria to become part of Russia.

 

It will take time. But Russia's in no rush. They don't do shock and awe or surge, followed but cut and run.

 

There might not be a Russia to do that, if China has its way. Moscow has now run out of money to pay for the police in the far east, who are now being funded by Oligarchs. China is already changing the Chinese=Russian border on maps, and using Chinese names to denote the Russian far eastern states. eg Vladivostok is now routinely called Haishenwai by the Chinese government.

 

Russia needs to complete its war quickly; Putin still will not change Russian law to send conscripts to the front line, preferring to bolster numbers through African mercenaries of variable quality. The best Russia can get out of this is a permanently occupied and impoverished Donetsk, with its troops facing 10-20 years of insurgency, and the occupied oblasts draining the Muscovy treasury, much like Chechenya is doing. Its never going to be normalised. Russia will not be able to raise any loans to pay for the rebuilding the Donetsk economy. A hollow victory. Meanwhile the rump Russian Empire, the last European Empire, will continue to disintegrate.

1 minute ago, Roadsternut said:

There might not be a Russia to do that, if China has its way.

Pay no heed to Western propaganda. They won't be able to create a breach between Russia-China. The only borders China is changing are the maritime ones in the South China Sea where its bullying little countries like the Philippines. Nothing's changed up north with Russia.

 

Russia-China partnership is strategic. They know the western neocons have set sights on both of them. So they have each others backs.

 

6 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

permanently occupied and impoverished Donetsk, with its troops facing 10-20 years of insurgency,

There'll be zero insurgency in the Donbas. It's mostly ethnic Russians who were the targets of the Azov Nazis since the coup. In fact, they were fighting Kiev in a civil war till Russia stepped in in 2022 on their side. In fact, they are already formally annexed by Russia and happy to be home.

 

Incidentally, it's not impoverished. They have the most fertile soil in Europe and trillions in minerals underneath. Plus industry.   

39 minutes ago, Autocan said:

Trump/Witkoff are trying to settle a war the US provoked. Couping off a legitimate government in Kiev, installing kleptocratic Nazis in their place who promptly started attacking ethnic Russians, creating dozens of CIA bases through the country and saying the next step was NATO membership for Ukraine was a stupid neocon idea. Obama was smart enough to understand this but too much of a wuss to say no.

 

In any case, it's too late. Trump/Witkoff's best intentions will come to nothing. Russia will take this war to it's logical conclusion which is to make sure Ukraine is reduced to a neutered rump state which is zero threat to Russia. Expect all east of the Dniepr plus Odesa and a way to Transnistria to become part of Russia.

 

It will take time. But Russia's in no rush. They don't do shock and awe or surge, followed but cut and run.

Kremlin propaganda 100 percent.

17 minutes ago, TedG said:

How in the world can he possible be a traitor?   He is a US Citizen, not a citizen of Ukraine.  

 

The argument is over he has broken the Logan Act or not, by conducting seperate talks with the Russian talks with the Russian  governments. These alleged discussions concern advising the Russians how to gain advantage in negotiations.

 

https://time.com/7336906/steve-witkoff-russia-call-trump-ukraine-peace-plan/

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/2025/11/steve-witkoff-ukraine-russia-deal/685081/

 

Its debateable if this constitutes treason. In the same way, Nixon, when he found out LBJ was about to broker a ceasefire between Saigon and Hanoi, contacted the South Vietnamese to assure them they would get a better deal if he was President. Nixon considered his electoral prospects would be better if he presented himself as the only candidate who could stop the Vietnam war. Was that treason? No. Did he get away with breaking the law? Yes.

6 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Your definition of a traitor is....interesting.

 

A man who puts the interests of his country ahead of the interests of a foreign country is a traitor.

A man who doesn't want to spend blood or treasure fixing territorial disputes in other places is a traitor. 

Gotcha. 

 

If you want to "stand with Ukraine", feel free. Donate money. House a refugee family. Hell, even stand with them on the front lines.  But enough of using other peoples' money to fund your geopolitical fantasies.

Except war waging war on Venezuela or Chicago.

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Kremlin propaganda 100 percent.

If you had added "nyah, nyah" I would have exactly gauged your mental age. As it is I can only guess.

4 minutes ago, Autocan said:

it's not impoverished. They have the most fertile soil in Europe and trillions in minerals underneath. Plus industry.   

 

In the same way that Central Africa is stinking rich because of all the resources it has.

 

The soil is no longer fertile. There are enough UXBs to make farming a hazard for the next 50 years.

 

The minerals will stay in the ground if there is no one there to invest in new mining facilities. And the value of these minerals is over estimated by people who think rare earth minerals are rare. Theyn are not. They are actually ubiquitous.

 

The indistry in the region is utterly destroyed. Mariupol is still in a state of ruin.

 

Russia is also now actively shipping Ukrainians, including Russian speaking Ukrainians out to the far east, and moving Muscovites in. Housing loans are only being made available to non-Ukrainians.

 

But why am I debating with you. You are a Communist, ergo untrustworthy. Up there with nazis, you are all as bad as each other.

12 minutes ago, Autocan said:

The only borders China is changing are the maritime ones in the South China Sea where its bullying little countries like the Philippines. Nothing's changed up north with Russia. 

 

China has seized Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island (renamed Heixiazi Island), tearing up the 2004 border agreement. Moscow has conceded the loss of territory with a whimper.

 

Further, worsening relations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/06/07/world/europe/china-russia-spies-documents-putin-war.html

 

41 minutes ago, TedG said:

The same goes his the OPs use of Fascism, Nazi, etc.

 

I don't care about that.

18 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

You are a Communist, ergo untrustworthy.

Vy, vy you say zis? I am Amerikanski. Amerika zis my kuntry.

 

But seriously, I hate bullies and I hate war-mongering neocons with a passion.

Putin is at war not only with Ukraine but also NATO and the west.

For an American to actively assist the Putin regime is at the least useful idiocy and in more severe intentional cases treason.

25 minutes ago, Autocan said:

If you had added "nyah, nyah" I would have exactly gauged your mental age. As it is I can only guess.

The description was actually true.

7 minutes ago, Roadsternut said:

China has seized Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island (renamed Heixiazi Island), tearing up the 2004 border agreement. Moscow has conceded the loss of territory with a whimper

Hmm, I never saw anything like this on the channels I follow, Russian, Western, etc. So I asked AI:

No, China has not seized Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island, but a territorial dispute reignited in 2023 when China's official map included the entire island as its territory

. The island was officially divided between China and Russia in 2005, with the border finalized in 2008. While the current official border is recognized, the 2023 map has led to tensions and Russia has rejected the new claim.

 

And Wikipedia has more:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshoy_Ussuriysky_Island#Border_agreements_between_China_and_Russia

 

So a little spat between friends who share a 2000 mile border, soon settled. But trust the NY Times to grasp at neocon straws. 

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The description was actually true.

Ok, you are either 5 or 85. 

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

"interesting" to consider who Trump's best friends have been  -- Witkoff, Epstein, etc.

Epstein wasn't his best friend, that's below the belt 

7 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Your definition of a traitor is....interesting.

 

A man who puts the interests of his country ahead of the interests of a foreign country is a traitor.

A man who doesn't want to spend blood or treasure fixing territorial disputes in other places is a traitor. 

Gotcha. 

 

If you want to "stand with Ukraine", feel free. Donate money. House a refugee family. Hell, even stand with them on the front lines.  But enough of using other peoples' money to fund your geopolitical fantasies.

Awww ain’t you cute a foreigner who’s trying to tell us about the putins tool in our White House….reality check trump a man who shivs our allies and friends in the guts at every opportunity both with trade and governance……a man who just forwards the enemy’s demands instead of negotiating for a better deal for a fledgling democracy invaded by  hoards of looting raping and killing orks fighting for their lives…….a man that wants our military to use us Americans as training for war…..furthermore this tool (trump) changed a war we’re our enemy was being bleed out bankrupted put in check for less than 5% of our defense budget and doing rite for everything my country stands for the Europeans and the brave Ukrainian nation fighting for their lives by a war FORCED on them by putin…..perhaps trump doesn’t meet the technical definition of TRATOR but he’s definitely close in my view.

9 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm not suggesting any of these corrupt Trump regime pro Putin operatives are ever going to face any consequences but thanks for the background color.

 

You are way over the top with your hyperbole. Not much distinguishes you from the people who once disgusted you like Marjorie Taylor Greene. She made similar accusations, except they were about Democrats.

 

Witkoff is carrying out his duties as envoy. You  may not like his actions or policy, but nothing he has done indicates  treason. He is doing what envoys have been doing since diplomacy started.  Americans will have an opportunity to make their views known in November 2026 and again in 2028. Until then, this is the government that they elected.

1 hour ago, JimCM said:

Epstein wasn't his best friend, that's below the belt 

Yes he was for many years.

45 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

You are way over the top with your hyperbole. Not much distinguishes you from the people who once disgusted you like Marjorie Taylor Greene. She made similar accusations, except they were about Democrats.

 

Witkoff is carrying out his duties as envoy. You  may not like his actions or policy, but nothing he has done indicates  treason. He is doing what envoys have been doing since diplomacy started.  Americans will have an opportunity to make their views known in November 2026 and again in 2028. Until then, this is the government that they elected.

Agree to disagree.

It really shouldn't be surprise why Trump supports Putin.

Same same not so different.