35 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

Some good responses to this thread and the original question by those with first-hand knowledge. So, from what I've read so far, in summary, it seems that:

 

The number of native-English teachers (with previous experience teaching) has declined for various reasons - comparatively low pay, trouble getting the school to help with/endorse a work permit, increasing demands by employers for unpaid extra-curricular work, increasing demands by government/quango agencies for proof of higher degree, specifically as educators, just more hassle in general and it's easier to go somewhere else, schools increasingly hiring non-native-language English speakers (Filipinos, Indians, etc., though have excellent English skills, but who can be paid less by Thai employers).

 

Some, however, have said things have remained roughly the same, and Thai schools remain a draw for younger teachers looking for some international experience (close to a beach).

 

If the initial summary above is true, and native-English teachers have/are leaving, or working illegally, and non-English-native speakers are replacing them (particularly in the really expensive international schools), it raises the question 'are children and parents getting hoodwinked or cheated by paying the same fees year on year?'

 

 

I think you're making a few mistakes / assumptions. 

The quality of foreign English teachers has been dire for years. I'm no longer teaching so I couldn't comment whether it is actually even worse now than it was when I left. I left teaching primarily because of the poor quality of my associates and the lack of effort they were willing to put into their jobs. Note - I stated jobs and not careers. 

The poor level of English spoken by Thailand is directly attributable to foreign teachers. Those at the very bottom with exclusively Thai teachers were never going to do anything with the language anyway. 

A number of the issues that you have cited are really only that at the bottom end schools. A teacher with any sort of interest in their career development and motivation would experience very few if none of these issues.

Finally, you somehow believe that a teacher that could teach and a standard bog Thai public school would have a shot at a legitimate international school. That is simply not the case whatsoever. It's extremely difficult to make that leap. 99% of teachers in even the best Thai public/private schools would not qualify to teach at tier 2 internationals. Because pickings have become so slim in Thailand you do see ads on ajarn from time to time. Make no mistake these institutions will be extremely selective in attempting to pull out a gem of a teacher from the coal mines.

I've known teachers that have actually gone the opposite way because the workload at the international schools were so heavy.

The schools that don't permit are usually running some sort of scam that benefits the Director first, school second and department third. Teacher benefit does not come into play. They often burn through teachers like wildfire and look only for the freshest meat that accept the low salary and the bull<deleted>. You'd think accepting the low salary and bull<deleted> would be enough but they still grind you out and do not offer you a permit. Of course, many of these schools can be identified by obscenely low salaries but you would be surprised at the nonsensical goes on in institutions that pay above 50k pm.

You would think that you actually get a better class of teacher and you 60k range, but often schools just hold on to bad teachers out of laziness. The bad teacher hold on for years even decades yet at the same time do not put anything into their lessons and teaching that might ensure them stability they desire.

Based upon my decade of experience in some of the best public private schools in Thailand. I'm of the opinion that most students in Thailand and their parents are getting entirely ripped off. 

Just been written with speech to text I've not going back and reviewed it so there you go. 

If you have a high work ethic, your responsible and dedicated to a career in education and your students and have an amazing career here and change lives in the process. If that's not you and in fact that is not 99% of the teachers in this country then you should just stay home and see the students education not damaged any further

51 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

English speakers (Filipinos, Indians, etc., though have excellent English skills, but who can be paid less by Thai employers).

 

I've no idea about the Indians. I have taught with a number of Filipinos in my first few years of teaching and found their spoken English middling If you can get past the the Visayan accent. Where are they really fail is on on the writing side. 

 

Having said that most teachers fail utterly on the writing side no matter what their race or color. Not only can't teach writing They can't write... Which also means they can't think

 

Standard hierarchy all things being equal - starting at kindergarten to M6 education gets progressively more advanced and difficult. Moreover, teaching some BS listening and speaking class is child's play compared to a proper advanced composition course especially if it includes elements of literature, humanities and critical thinking. LS teachers are a fking embarrassment. If a teacher tells you there are listening and speaking teacher guaranteed their worthless. I met perhaps two or three that were solid teachers and that actually had something to offer the students in that regard. These classes are usually a monumental waste of time and it is largely because of the teachers 

On 12/1/2025 at 9:24 AM, ronnie50 said:

A retired friend of mine living in Thailand - a former (farang) English teacher

Would he have used Amount in the headline, or Number?

2 hours ago, MarcusAurelius said:

 

I've no idea about the Indians. I have taught with a number of Filipinos in my first few years of teaching and found their spoken English middling If you can get past the the Visayan accent. Where are they really fail is on on the writing side. 

 

Having said that most teachers fail utterly on the writing side no matter what their race or color. Not only can't teach writing They can't write... Which also means they can't think

 

Standard hierarchy all things being equal - starting at kindergarten to M6 education gets progressively more advanced and difficult. Moreover, teaching some BS listening and speaking class is child's play compared to a proper advanced composition course especially if it includes elements of literature, humanities and critical thinking. LS teachers are a fking embarrassment. If a teacher tells you there are listening and speaking teacher guaranteed their worthless. I met perhaps two or three that were solid teachers and that actually had something to offer the students in that regard. These classes are usually a monumental waste of time and it is largely because of the teachers 

Yeah "listening & speaking" essentially translates to "Do whatever you want, so long as the students don't complain", as LS teachers are usually assigned to the Thai section and are mainly just for show rather than actual teaching.

Teachers can potentially do a decent job with it, but there isn't any pressure on you to do a good job, you're often not given any resources like text books etc, and the quality of the students often varies wildly, so the odds are stacked against a L&S teacher doing a good job of it.  As even if they have the motivation to work hard (When they don't need to), they've also got to have the ability to do a good job of it too.

Of course, I'd love to think I was the exception to the rule when I was teaching L&S, but teaching L&S is more about putting on a good show rather than meaningful education.  I used to have each class for 1 hour a week, 1 semester a year, there's simply not a lot you an do with that aside from giving them a generally positive outlook on the subject.

At my current school the students are pretty exceptional, but then we're also not teaching L&S (having maybe 10-15x foreign teachers).  Instead the students simply get sufficient hours with foreign teachers each week (Maybe 15-20h a week), good resources, plenty of support from the Thai co-teachers & a tonne of special class lol.

You know...I rec'd two laughing emoji. Believe me... I'm not thin skinned - but this is exactly the mentality of teachers here.... Probably everywhere now. It's all a <deleted> laugh.

 

Funnier still they inherit some stupid lesson from online or a drinking buddy. Do <deleted> all to customize it to their students,  toss it at them... Set a due date, provide zero teaching hours assistance and then punish those that... Didn't understand the abortion assignment or totally unmotivated by it and the teacher  etc... tsk tsk tsk not in on time, not up to xyz standard.  Meanwhile... back to partying, smoking weed. 

 

Unless you shine brightly as a superstar teacher - you're just part of the problem.

 

I do understand the Filipino argument for more money and white faces... Whites are equally poor teachers ... therefore they should be paid the same. 

 

If I were MOE Director I'd work out a deal with Phils government to bring over thousands of teachers. They can do equally crap job for far less money and some actually try. Unfortunately, there's plenty of turds in the private schools as well.

 

 

On 12/1/2025 at 4:33 AM, ikke1959 said:

They can command indeed, but not 1 school will pay it.mostly nowadays only 10 or 11 months because of the holidays, and not more than max 45 if you are lucky

There are many teaching jobs paying in the region of 100k a month to those qualified in their own country.

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

There are many teaching jobs paying in the region of 100k a month to those qualified in their own country.

Qualified TEFL teachers get paid far less, both in Thailand and in their home countries!

22 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Qualified TEFL teachers get paid far less, both in Thailand and in their home countries!

I'm not talking about TEFL.

10 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

I'm not talking about TEFL.

I realise that as you quoted a very high non-TEFL salary. But the vast majority of teaching jobs in Thailand are TEFL.

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

There are many teaching jobs paying in the region of 100k a month to those qualified in their own country.

You don't have any experience it seems with teaching English in Thailand... If you can give me a school that pays me 100k a month I start tomorrow.. and be fair not International schools

20 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I realise that as you quoted a very high non-TEFL salary. But the vast majority of teaching jobs in Thailand are TEFL.

I was answering a comment regarding salaries. One that said nothing over 45k a month. Nothing else.

4 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

You don't have any experience it seems with teaching English in Thailand... If you can give me a school that pays me 100k a month I start tomorrow.. and be fair not International schools

Are you a qualified teacher in your home country? Are you a Native English Speaker? If so, there are many high salary teaching opportunities for you.

By the way, I was a teacher in Thailand for over 20 years.

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Are you a qualified teacher in your home country? Are you a Native English Speaker? If so, there are many high salary teaching opportunities for you.

By the way, I was a teacher in Thailand for over 20 years.

You need to differentiate between a full teaching qualification, and TEFL qualifications. Most teaching jobs in Thailand are teaching English as Foreign/Second Language and the best qualification is a CELTA or Trinity TESOL. Salaries range from abysmal to adequate (60-65,000 in Bangkok). They are not much different in my home country (UK) or most of Europe.

Salaries of 100,000+ will be for fully qualified teachers and are limited to international schools. It's not really what this thread is about.

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

You need to differentiate between a full teaching qualification, and TEFL qualifications. Most teaching jobs in Thailand are teaching English as Foreign/Second Language and the best qualification is a CELTA or Trinity TESOL. Salaries range from abysmal to adequate (60-65,000 in Bangkok). They are not much different in my home country (UK) or most of Europe.

Salaries of 100,000+ will be for fully qualified teachers and are limited to international schools. It's not really what this thread is about.

As I said, high salary teaching jobs are available to those qualified in their home countries.

Anyone with half a brain understands what that means as, let's face it, TEFL isn't a qualification that alone enables anyone to teach anywhere.

I taught in Thailand for 20 years. I never taught TEFL or acquired a TEFL qualification.

I was responding to a comment regarding salaries. Hence my point of being home qualified.

2 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

As I said, high salary teaching jobs are available to those qualified in their home countries.

Anyone with half a brain understands what that means as, let's face it, TEFL isn't a qualification that alone enables anyone to teach anywhere.

I taught in Thailand for 20 years. I never taught TEFL or acquired a TEFL qualification.

I was responding to a comment regarding salaries. Hence my point of being home qualified.

Your comment shows that you wete not a qualified teacher too. A qualified teacher respond in a much more decent way, and I have never ever met a teacher here in Thailand who earned more than 60k....

13 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Your comment shows that you wete not a qualified teacher too. A qualified teacher respond in a much more decent way, and I have never ever met a teacher here in Thailand who earned more than 60k....

It appears it is you showing lack of experience and qualifications.

A quick search and you'll find plenty of jobs over 60k, if you qualify, that is. Judging by your comment, you don't. Try spell checker. 555

Keep on increasing your max earnings estimates. You’ll soon reach 100k. 555

11 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

As I said, high salary teaching jobs are available to those qualified in their home countries.

Anyone with half a brain understands what that means as, let's face it, TEFL isn't a qualification that alone enables anyone to teach anywhere.

I taught in Thailand for 20 years. I never taught TEFL or acquired a TEFL qualification.

I was responding to a comment regarding salaries. Hence my point of being home qualified.

"Let's face it", you're completely wrong! I only have a CELTA qualification and have been teaching English in Thailand for 20 years, and I still am. A CELTA qualification is recognised worldwide for TEFL/TESOL jobs. You can train and qualify as a TEFL teacher in your home country (UK for me) so not sure what you mean by being "home qualified". A quick look at the current jobs available on TEFL.com will open your eyes.

well, there you go, listening to the wisdom of your friend

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

"Let's face it", you're completely wrong! I only have a CELTA qualification and have been teaching English in Thailand for 20 years, and I still am. A CELTA qualification is recognised worldwide for TEFL/TESOL jobs. You can train and qualify as a TEFL teacher in your home country (UK for me) so not sure what you mean by being "home qualified". A quick look at the current jobs available on TEFL.com will open your eyes.

I don't need to open my eyes. 20 years teaching in Thailand including working in recruitment from overseas.