10 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Please. Trump repeatedly cited removing dangerous criminals as a justification for his program. In fact, a big reason Americans have turned against the program is the fact that most Americans believed that that they would be the target and not peaceful illegals who lived and worked in the USA.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-poll-trump-deportation-program-prices/

ANd of course, the Americans who approve of ICE has plummeted even further since this poll was taken.

Total rubbish and heresay. I recall Trump and Musk clearly stating to deport all illegals - millions and millions. I understand you did not listen to him much in the campaign - but he did say that many many times.

Approval ratings of Government Law Enforcement (any Agency) is totally irrelevant - they are not elected - also total rubbish to think it means anything.

1 minute ago, XRules said:

You know very well that statement she made is out of context - assuming you have watched all the videos. Her partner was on the other side and outside the car and they were refusing to move their vehicle and had been deliberately blocking them all day. The Officer who fired was in front of the vehicle at the time, and there were several other Officers involved in trying to get her to move the car. When her partner got back into the car she told the woman to 'drive drive drive'. Meanwhile the Officer in front had said 'Right - Get out of the vehicle'. I am not sure whether he pulled his gun when saying that (probably did). She then accelerated her car in his direction (as directed by her partner). Although we can see in the videos from other positions that she also started to turn the wheel - from his position directly in front of her, the wheels turning would not have been visible - all he would have seen is the car moving forward towards him. Tragic and so unnecessary - and caused by the Dems calling for the continued harassment and threats made against the ICE Officers. Also caused because ICE and local police had not been aggressive enough in arresting people who were blocking and threatening ICE Officers. Now made worse by the subsequent headlines and stories from liberal media like CNN.

Your version of the incident is tendentious to say the least. But I'm not going to wade into it with you. Suffice it to say that agent in question violated at least 2 protocol rules by positioning himself in front of the vehicle, holding a gun in one hand and a cellphone recording the incident in another.

Vice President JD Vance said during a Thursday news conference that the ICE agent who fired the shots was involved in a harrowing incident six months prior in which he was dragged by a car and required 33 stitches to his leg. He might be "a little bit sensitive about somebody ramming him with an automobile," Vance said

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/expert-warns-painting-slain-anti-ice-activist-george-floyd-will-fail.amp

This sounds more like someone making a case for a defense in court rather than justifying the agent's conduct. As for "ramming", this guy must be Superman since he walked away from the incident with no noticeable limp.

Are ICE the new domestic terrorists?

Study history - It's a sad fact that Republics often slip into Empire, and with Empire comes totalitarianism and authoritarianism. And the hallmark of authoritarianism is the change of domestic police from "public servants" to enforcers and even executioners as police and military combine and are set upon their own domestic population by an increasing dictatorial and tyrannical, corrupt leadership who proclaim that they are above all rules of sane governance. The new "ruler of the world" has essentially stated that he can do anything he wants as he turns his police and military into instruments of state and international terrorism against the his self-proclaimed "enemies of his empire." It's only going to get worse. If anyone thinks that "Trump 2028 is a meme, then you better look at Greenland as a US talks about making it an unincorporated territory of the US 👈 ... that sounded like a joke a year ago. It doesn't sound like a joke now. And if Trump takes Greenland, then don't think the canard about "Canada as the 51st State" won't also be a possible reality. And by 2028, Trump as your Forever Leader doesn't sound far fetched either.

10 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Your version of the incident is tendentious to say the least. But I'm not going to wade into it with you. Suffice it to say that agent in question violated at least 2 protocol rules by positioning himself in front of the vehicle, holding a gun in one hand and a cellphone recording the incident in another.

The camera was his body camera that they all wear. Clearly you know nothing about these things

10 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Vice President JD Vance said during a Thursday news conference that the ICE agent who fired the shots was involved in a harrowing incident six months prior in which he was dragged by a car and required 33 stitches to his leg. He might be "a little bit sensitive about somebody ramming him with an automobile," Vance said

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/expert-warns-painting-slain-anti-ice-activist-george-floyd-will-fail.amp

JD makes sense - the Officer reacted thinking his life was in serious danger. But if she had obeyed lawful directions and has not undertaken illegal acts that would not have happenned.

10 minutes ago, Alan Zweibel said:

This sounds more like someone making a case for a defense in court rather than justifying the agent's conduct. As for "ramming", this guy must be Superman since he walked away from the incident with no noticeable limp.

This is a good chance for you to 'correct' your thinking. JD said -"a little bit sensitive about somebody ramming him with an automobile," Meaning not that he was rammed, but he was fearful of (again) being rammed. You have cognitive bias - you hear and see what supports your bias. I am not saying to change your political bias - but you should be aware it is very easy to see everything from only one perspective.

6 minutes ago, connda said:

Are ICE the new domestic terrorists?

Study history - It's a sad fact that Republics often slip into Empire, and with Empire comes totalitarianism and authoritarianism. And the hallmark of authoritarianism is the change of domestic police from "public servants" to enforcers and even executioners as police and military combine and are set upon their own domestic population by an increasing dictatorial and tyrannical, corrupt leadership who proclaim that they are above all rules of sane governance. The new "ruler of the world" has essentially stated that he can do anything he wants as he turns his police and military into instruments of state and international terrorism against the his self-proclaimed "enemies of his empire." It's only going to get worse. If anyone thinks that "Trump 2028 is a meme, then you better look at Greenland as a US talks about making it an unincorporated territory of the US 👈 ... that sounded like a joke a year ago. It doesn't sound like a joke now. And if Trump takes Greenland, then don't think the canard about "Canada as the 51st State" won't also be a possible reality. And by 2028, Trump as your Forever Leader doesn't sound far fetched either.

There is so much derangement in that statement that I fear for your mental stability. Maduro is the tyrannical dictator that killed people - Trump is just a politician that you hate.

2 minutes ago, XRules said:

The camera was his body camera that they all wear. Clearly you know nothing about these things

It was not a body camera, clearly you know nothing about this tragic incident.

5 minutes ago, XRules said:

JD said -"a little bit sensitive about somebody ramming him with an automobile," Meaning not that he was rammed, but he was fearful of (again) being rammed.

Yes and some have said that this would indicate that following the officer's JUN2025 dragging by a fleeing car and his 2 days of testimony just last month to that incident that he feared he was going to die, that the officer should still be confined to a desk job and not out on the street.

33 minutes ago, XRules said:

When her partner got back into the car she told the woman to 'drive drive drive'.

Her partner did not get back into the car.

Her partner said drive baby drive.

8 minutes ago, XRules said:

The camera was his body camera that they all wear. Clearly you know nothing about these things

The camera was his cell phone.

A post with a derogatory political neologism to belittle or mock individuals with differing political views and the replies have been removed.

As so often happens in many of these threads, someone can't help but to go off-topic and start to make insults toward other members which then takes the entire thread off-topic and a series of equally insulting replies.
Stop! Don't go there. They will be removed. @Effective altruism @Alan Zweibel Stay on topic and respect the opinions of other members. Thank you.

9 minutes ago, XRules said:

The camera was his body camera that they all wear. Clearly you know nothing about these things

JD makes sense - the Officer reacted thinking his life was in serious danger. But if she had obeyed lawful directions and has not undertaken illegal acts that would not have happenned.

This is a good chance for you to 'correct' your thinking. JD said -"a little bit sensitive about somebody ramming him with an automobile," Meaning not that he was rammed, but he was fearful of (again) being rammed. You have cognitive bias - you hear and see what supports your bias. I am not saying to change your political bias - but you should be aware it is very easy to see everything from only one perspective.

11 minutes ago, XRules said:

There is so much derangement in that statement that I fear for your mental stability. Maduro is the tyrannical dictator that killed people - Trump is just a politician that you hate.

Another common that shows when you've got nothing make it personal.

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

. She was a legal observer, there to keep an eye on ICE

I always choose to stay under the radar, mind my own business.

It's the recipe for a long happy life

8 minutes ago, Real Name Hidden said:

It was not a body camera, clearly you know nothing about this tragic incident.

This is a pretty fair and honest summary of what happened. Was it a reasonable thing to do - TBD.

Body footage released is the headline - same thing for many other vids I have seen. That the medal used incorrect headlines - I will accept that is a common thing they do. If he was holding a phone that is a cause for concern for sure. Either way the matter will be decided in Court.

Bodycam footage released showing last moments of woman killed by ICE officer in Minneapolis

9 minutes ago, JerryM said:

Yes and some have said that this would indicate that following the officer's JUN2025 dragging by a fleeing car and his 2 days of testimony just last month to that incident that he feared he was going to die, that the officer should still be confined to a desk job and not out on the street.

Perhaps - that is something that will come out during the investigation and at the trial. If you watch the last video I posted, he was clearly limping a bit on his leg for a few steps afterwards - that to me means he was mentally 'feeling' that incident where he was rammed and dragged in the past. Tragic and sad - it should never have happened either was the decision goes. But to say he committed murder is an atrocity - he was scared for his life and reacted - there was clearly no intent to murder.

12 minutes ago, blaze master said:

Her partner did not get back into the car.

Her partner said drive baby drive.

The camera was his cell phone.

She took off without her partner? That makes it clear she was instructed to 'take off' and she did so.

Having a camera in his hand and having been previously rammed and dragged under a car would not have helped.

All tragic circumstances that should never have happenned.

2 minutes ago, XRules said:

Perhaps - that is something that will come out during the investigation and at the trial.

What trial? There will likely not be a criminal indictment as DoJ already claims "self-defense" and at a civil trial what he was 'feeling' would be irrelevant.

3 minutes ago, XRules said:

She took off without her partner? That makes it clear she was instructed to 'take off' and she did so.

Having a camera in his hand and having been previously rammed and dragged under a car would not have helped.

All tragic circumstances that should never have happenned.

Ya she tried to take off without her partner. It appears her partner did try to get back into the Honda.

The rest i do agree with you

19 minutes ago, XRules said:

There is so much derangement in that statement that I fear for your mental stability. Maduro is the tyrannical dictator that killed people - Trump is just a politician that you hate.

I don't "hate Trump." I'm a conservative and I felt that many of his pre-election promises were good for the Republic, like the promise not to engage in Nation Building. But over the last year he's gone power-mad. He's now invading countries and he's brought the military on United States soil in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, engages in summary executions of sailors on the high seas was well as open piracy under the excuse of enforcing "domestic law" - like seizing ships in the North Atlantic in violation of international law which he now openly disregards.

I find this and many of his other acts to be very concerning to the welfare of what used to be the US Republic.

1 minute ago, JerryM said:

What trial? There will likely not be a criminal indictment as DoJ already claims "self-defense" and at a civil trial what he was 'feeling' would be irrelevant.

I am not sure that is the case. I think that he will be tried in Court for 'wrongful death'. It would be a wise thing to do - politically and personally. If he is found guilty, then the following civil case will be quick. If he is found not guilty, any civil trial will have far less 'standing'.

3 minutes ago, blaze master said:

Ya she tried to take off without her partner. It appears her partner did try to get back into the Honda.

The rest i do agree with you

The only vids I have seen show her moving towards and starting to open the door - I assumed she got in. On other vids she is clearly calling to her to 'go'.

3 hours ago, save the frogs said:

It's very stupid of the cop to be standing in front of the car. It's very bad police protocol.

Very often when officers pull someone over, they resist arrest and drive off. The cop shouldn't have been standing there in the first place.

If they drive off, you chase them. Not try to block the car by standing in front of it.

That cop should be fired.

Tell you what, you go through life without making mistakes first. Maybe he erred, maybe he did not. An investigation will determine that. However, if and when you screw up, let's say in a fatal car crash, and then you get tens of thousands unaware of all the facts passing judgement on you and hoping to destroy your life, let's see if you have the same sentiment.

2 hours ago, XRules said:

Define heinous. They have all committed a federal crime.

Many board members have no doubt committed crimes in their lifetime.

Driving while intoxicated, underage drinking and smoking, hedging and/or outright cheating on taxes, talking out loud in the library, chewing gum in class.

If authoritarians were allowed to have there way, almost everyone would be classified as a criminal.

As an example, if the rule of law and the decisions of the courts are what determines, for instance what is murder, Orenthal James Simpson was an innocent man and did not commit murder.

Many here have expressed that they think that the ICE agent only committed murder if the courts say so. In that case OJ didn't commit murder and maybe they would be happy to dine with him and listen to stories of his athletic career.

1 minute ago, XRules said:

The only vids I have seen show her moving towards and starting to open the door - I assumed she got in. On other vids she is clearly calling to her to 'go'.

She grabbed the handle and attempted to open the door but failed. Then the rest happened.

Yep. The woman on the outside told her to drive baby drive.

4 minutes ago, connda said:

I don't "hate Trump." I'm a conservative and I felt that many of his pre-election promises were good for the Republic, like the promise not to engage in Nation Building. But over the last year he's gone power-mad. He's now invading countries and he's brought the military on United States soil in violation of the Posse Comitatus Act, engages in summary executions of sailors on the high seas was well as open piracy under the excuse of enforcing "domestic law" - like seizing ships in the North Atlantic in violation of international law which he now openly disregards.

I find this and many of his other acts to be very concerning to the welfare of what used to be the US Republic.

Interesting views. There is no doubt that the US Republic is not what it once was. But I dont put that all on Trump - that all started under Clinton. I cannot find the picture anymore, but up until Clinton was impeached the GOP and Dems voted bipartisan on 70+% of issues debated. Since then it has dropped dramatically - under both Bushes and Obama and Trump1 and Biden. The two political Parties in USA are basically at war with each other and I agree with you that is affecting the People badly.

However, he did not invade a country. He executed a warrant that was enacted by Biden after a grand jury indicted him and Biden removed Maduro's status as a legitimate Head of Government. Likewise, he has used all military forces legally under his rights as per the Constitution. The issue of killing narco-terrorists in open waters and detaining ships suspected of criminal activity damaging USA' interests, is also OK under his powers as the President. Besides, do you really think that if guilty of those acts that the narcos would obey a warrant? And how would you serve that warrant - the US does not have a boat/ship that is fast and nimble enough to even catch up to the narcos.

21 minutes ago, XRules said:

I am not sure that is the case. I think that he will be tried in Court for 'wrongful death'

'Wrongful death' is a civil not criminal matter.

5 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Tell you what, you go through life without making mistakes first. Maybe he erred, maybe he did not. An investigation will determine that.

No it will not. There are two tiers of justice when it comes to cops.

I had a concealed carry permit in the US. If I was in the same situation as the officer and chose to "stand my ground" and open fire on the driver - instead leaving my pistol in its holster and stepping back out of the way of the car - I guarantee I'd be facing a Grand Jury indictment for murder. In face, under the exact same circumstances I would have just stepped back.

Cops will almost always be cleared of charges. According to a Grok inquiry:

These figures reflect that over 97–99% of fatal police shootings do not result in criminal charges against officers. Several factors contribute to this outcome, including legal standards for justified use of force (e.g., "objective reasonableness" under Graham v. Connor), prosecutorial relationships with law enforcement, and the challenges of proving criminal intent in high-stress encounters.

And under the current administration, the Trump Administration, ICE, and police will close ranks and protect each other. Kind of the hallmark of tyranny.

13 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

Many board members have no doubt committed crimes in their lifetime.

Driving while intoxicated, underage drinking and smoking, hedging and/or outright cheating on taxes, talking out loud in the library, chewing gum in class.

If authoritarians were allowed to have there way, almost everyone would be classified as a criminal.

As an example, if the rule of law and the decisions of the courts are what determines, for instance what is murder, Orenthal James Simpson was an innocent man and did not commit murder.

Many here have expressed that they think that the ICE agent only committed murder if the courts say so. In that case OJ didn't commit murder and maybe they would be happy to dine with him and listen to stories of his athletic career.

The board members will be deported if they do illegal things in Thailand or overstay their Visa.

Talking out loud in the library and chewing gum in class are not crimes.

15 minutes ago, blaze master said:

She grabbed the handle and attempted to open the door but failed. Then the rest happened.

Yep. The woman on the outside told her to drive baby drive.

Tragic events.

5 minutes ago, XRules said:

The board members will be deported if they do illegal things in Thailand or overstay their Visa.

Talking out loud in the library and chewing gum in class are not crimes.

So Thailand is now the standard by which to judge the validity of US policy. That's not a strange idea.

8 minutes ago, XRules said:

The board members will be deported if they do illegal things in Thailand or overstay their Visa.

Talking out loud in the library and chewing gum in class are not crimes.

Missed the point.

Not worth belaboring based on thickness.