6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Many people who take their lives have good lives in general. Many are pretty and handsome, with money and success. Many are in good shape but their thinking doesn't match reality

Vague statement with zero evidence.

1 minute ago, Harrisfan said:

Proven wrong years ago.

The idea that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance, particularly low serotonin levels, is not supported by current scientific evidence.

A comprehensive umbrella review published in Molecular Psychiatry by University College London (UCL) scientists analyzed decades of research and found no convincing evidence that depression results from low serotonin or abnormal serotonin activity. This review, which included tens of thousands of participants, examined blood and brain fluid levels, serotonin receptors, the serotonin transporter, gene variations, and studies where serotonin was artificially lowered—none showed a consistent link to depression.

Instead, the research highlights adverse life events, stress, trauma, chronic inflammation, and dysregulation of the HPA-axis (which controls stress hormones like cortisol) as stronger contributors to depression. These findings suggest depression is a complex response to life circumstances and biological stressors, not a simple deficiency in brain chemicals.

I'm not going to look for links, like you do, with no knowledge on the subject and only looking to argue, like you've done before. I know better, and can provide hundreds of links and studies on the subject which shows facts along with opinions. Many studies have shown both sides.

Just now, Harrisfan said:

Vague statement with zero evidence.

If you actually read books and aren't just here to try to disprove a subject you actually know little about, you would find there are facts and opinions on both sides, and some of us have personal experience of family and friends who had everything going for them, including being those who were in good shape, had good marriages, homes, jobs and most everything else, and still took their lives. Personal experience, not looking up links.

6 hours ago, jts-khorat said:

This is not just grumpiness.

The symptoms as @georgegeorgia describe them are very very often a sign of developing Frontotemporal dementia (FTD), leading often in the beginning stages to social disinhibition, impulsivity and loss of empathy.

Not something to be proud of, but a warning sign to see a doctor,as it it leads to severe, progressive decline over time.

I'm certainly in agreement with you that as we get older there could be a multitude of physical and mental issues that cause us to become irritable and grumpy.

But that's not really what I'm addressing here, I am addressing things that are within our control and things that we are able to consciously address, and qualities that we are able to manifest, if it means anything to us, and if we want to continue projecting ourselves as decent, and pleasant people to be around. It's up to us, the mind is an incredibly powerful instrument and we are the only ones that are in control of it. We can let it become a toxic sewer or we can continue fighting the good battle and resist the ravages of age.

Some quotes from movies about aging.

Ben Randall: When the heck did we get old?

Maggie McGlone: Hell, I've always been old Ben. Ya' know what though, I don't mind. I mean if my muscles ache, it's because I've used 'em. It's hard for me to walk up them steps now, its 'cuz I walked up 'em every night to lay next to a man who loved me. I got a few wrinkles here and there, but I've layed under thousands of skies with sunny days. I look and feel this way, well cuz I drank and I smoked. I lived and I loved, danced, sang, sweat and screwed my way thorough a pretty damn good life if you ask me. Getting old ain't bad Ben. Getting old, that's earned.

Older people are perceived as cynics and misanthropes. But, they are simply people who have at last heard the still, sad music of humanity, played by a mediocre rock band howling for fame. 

This is what you see when you are young. Everything seems very close. That is the future. And that is what you see when you are old. Everything seems really far away. That's the past.

The routine is the enemy of time - it makes time fly by. Once your brain establishes a routine, the fascination dissapates, and so does the awareness. I want to choose a mind and a soul that is wide awake.

Do not go gently into that good night. Old age should burn and rave at close of day. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Dylan Thomas

30s is too soon. Dying in your 30's is tragic. As is the 40s

Sympathy dissapates from there. 50s is such a shame

60s is too soon

70s a good run

80s a life well lived

90s - a fricking hell of a ride

Or we have the typical complaints

The guy is a bus driver. another bus driver walks up, and he says, you doing ok? guy responds, not really. My kid needs braces on her teeth, my car needs a new transmission, my wife wants me to take her to florida, but I am two months behind on the house mortgage, my uncle called from India, and wants some money for my nieces wedding, and I have a strange rash on my back. How are you doing? Classic.

Contentment and anger

My contention is that if we are not making a conscious effort to better ourselves, to be pleasant, funny, and filled with joy and good will, the opposite happens as a result of the indignities of the aging process.

There are hundreds of millions of old timers, who have not worked at maintaining their attitude, and have succumbed to being a human black cloud. I just ignore those types and don't engage them. They can keep their ranting, misery and lack of understanding of life's basic principals to themselves.

The problem that we face in this life is that no matter where we go we take ourselves with us, so if we are not able to figure out a way to find fulfillment and contentment within ourselves, no matter where we go that misery follows us. Thai people can be very intuitive, and perhaps they simply react to all the heavy-heartedness that you're carrying around. Or the joy and smiles.

2 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm not going to look for links, like you do, with no knowledge on the subject and only looking to argue, like you've done before. I know better, and can provide hundreds of links and studies on the subject which shows facts along with opinions. Many studies have shown both sides.

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I'm not going to look for links, like you do, with no knowledge on the subject and only looking to argue, like you've done before. I know better, and can provide hundreds of links and studies on the subject which shows facts along with opinions. Many studies have shown both sides.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/mental-health/3569506-depression-is-likely-not-caused-by-a-chemical-imbalance-in-the-brain-study-says/

You are 30 years behind the science

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

If you actually read books and aren't just here to try to disprove a subject you actually know little about, you would find there are facts and opinions on both sides, and some of us have personal experience of family and friends who had everything going for them, including being those who were in good shape, had good marriages, homes, jobs and most everything else, and still took their lives. Personal experience, not looking up links.

More vague statements with no science. BDD people are 25% likely to try suicide which is far greater than the general population. You need to read science and catch up.

20 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Do more and think less. Thinking causes the problem.

That's called running away!

Anyway, we all dealing with our traumatic happenings one way or the other, some succeed, some becomes stuck in the same pattern.

I know what worked for me, and never looked back, even ongoing life is what it is, it takes the same medicine to handle.

Be patience and puzzle the small bricks first.

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

That's called running away!

Anyway, we all dealing with our traumatic happenings one way or the other, some succeed, some becomes stuck in the same pattern.

I know what worked for me, and never looked back, even ongoing life is what it is, it takes the same medicine to handle.

Be patience and puzzle the small bricks first.

You ran away to Thailand

1 minute ago, Harrisfan said:

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/mental-health/3569506-depression-is-likely-not-caused-by-a-chemical-imbalance-in-the-brain-study-says/

You are 30 years behind the science

I actually have been reading , up to this date, on things involved with this disease. You on the other hand, didn't know much about it before someone replied about the condition, then started to provide links because you just wanted to argue, like always. I'll make it easy for you, providing both sides, and up to date...........

Suicide is rarely caused by a single event, but rather by the convergence of overwhelming, often hidden, psychological, biological, and social factors. 

Undiagnosed or Untreated Mental Illness: Over 90% of people who die by suicide have a diagnosable mental health condition, most commonly severe depression or bipolar disorder. These conditions can create a deep, pervasive sense of hopelessness and suffering that distorts a person's ability to see any other way out of their pain.

Psychache" and Unbearable Pain: Experts often point to "psychache," or unbearable mental pain, as the primary driver of suicidal behavior. This intense emotional pain can make life feel impossible to manage, regardless of one's material success.

Perfectionism and Pressure: Highly successful individuals often hold themselves to impossibly high standards and, when they perceive a failure or inability to keep up, they may fall into a deep crisis. The pressure to maintain a perfect public image can lead to immense internal turmoil, often described as "Pennface"—appearing calm and successful on the outside while struggling desperately on the inside.

Isolation and "Superficial" Relationships: Despite being surrounded by people, successful or famous individuals can experience profound loneliness. They may feel they cannot trust others or that their relationships are superficial, leaving them with no one to turn to for genuine support.

Feeling Like a Burden: Even with all the resources in the world, a person may mistakenly believe that their loved ones would be "better off" without them. This distorted thinking often convinces them that their death would be a relief to others

Impulsivity: Sometimes, suicide is an impulsive act triggered by a sudden, severe crisis, particularly when combined with substance abuse, which can lower inhibition. ..................

I know this might be too much for you to take in, or even bother to read, but it shows it's biological, genetics, and life altering events, along with substance abuse, where it isn't fully known unless the individual is diagnosed and followed up to see the root cause or causes..

Just now, fredwiggy said:

I actually have been reading , up to this date, on things involved with this disease. You on the other hand, didn't know much about it before someone replied about the condition, then started to provide links because you just wanted to argue, like always. I'll make it easy for you, providing both sides, and up to date...........Undiagnosed or Untreated Mental Illness: Over 90% of people who die by suicide have a diagnosable mental health condition, most commonly severe depression or bipolar disorder. These conditions can create a deep, pervasive sense of hopelessness and suffering that distorts a person's ability to see any other way out of their pain.

Psychache" and Unbearable Pain: Experts often point to "psychache," or unbearable mental pain, as the primary driver of suicidal behavior. This intense emotional pain can make life feel impossible to manage, regardless of one's material success.

Perfectionism and Pressure: Highly successful individuals often hold themselves to impossibly high standards and, when they perceive a failure or inability to keep up, they may fall into a deep crisis. The pressure to maintain a perfect public image can lead to immense internal turmoil, often described as "Pennface"—appearing calm and successful on the outside while struggling desperately on the inside.

Isolation and "Superficial" Relationships: Despite being surrounded by people, successful or famous individuals can experience profound loneliness. They may feel they cannot trust others or that their relationships are superficial, leaving them with no one to turn to for genuine support.

Feeling Like a Burden: Even with all the resources in the world, a person may mistakenly believe that their loved ones would be "better off" without them. This distorted thinking often convinces them that their death would be a relief to others

Impulsivity: Sometimes, suicide is an impulsive act triggered by a sudden, severe crisis, particularly when combined with substance abuse, which can lower inhibition. ..................

I know this might be too much for you to take in, or even bother to read, but it shows it's biological, genetics, and life altering events, along with substance abuse, where it isn't fully known unless the individual is diagnosed and followed up to see the root cause or causes..

My contention is that if we are not making a conscious effort to better ourselves, to be pleasant, funny, and filled with joy and good will, the opposite happens as a result of the indignities of the aging process.

There are hundreds of millions of old timers, who have not worked at maintaining their attitude, and have succumbed to being a human black cloud. I just ignore those types and don't engage them. They can keep their ranting, misery and lack of understanding of life's basic principals to themselves.

The problem that we face in this life is that no matter where we go we take ourselves with us, so if we are not able to figure out a way to find fulfillment and contentment within ourselves, no matter where we go that misery follows us. Thai people can be very intuitive, and perhaps they simply react to all the heavy-heartedness that you're carrying around. Or the joy and smiles.

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

My contention is that if we are not making a conscious effort to better ourselves, to be pleasant, funny, and filled with joy and good will, the opposite happens as a result of the indignities of the aging process.

There are hundreds of millions of old timers, who have not worked at maintaining their attitude, and have succumbed to being a human black cloud. I just ignore those types and don't engage them. They can keep their ranting, misery and lack of understanding of life's basic principals to themselves.

The problem that we face in this life is that no matter where we go we take ourselves with us, so if we are not able to figure out a way to find fulfillment and contentment within ourselves, no matter where we go that misery follows us. Thai people can be very intuitive, and perhaps they simply react to all the heavy-heartedness that you're carrying around. Or the joy and smiles.

Yes, wherever you go, you take yourself with you, and how you relate to others isn't bound by borders or languages. You go where you feel comfortable, and learn to adjust to differences.

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I actually have been reading , up to this date, on things involved with this disease. You on the other hand, didn't know much about it before someone replied about the condition, then started to provide links because you just wanted to argue, like always. I'll make it easy for you, providing both sides, and up to date...........

Suicide is rarely caused by a single event, but rather by the convergence of overwhelming, often hidden, psychological, biological, and social factors. 

Undiagnosed or Untreated Mental Illness: Over 90% of people who die by suicide have a diagnosable mental health condition, most commonly severe depression or bipolar disorder. These conditions can create a deep, pervasive sense of hopelessness and suffering that distorts a person's ability to see any other way out of their pain.

Psychache" and Unbearable Pain: Experts often point to "psychache," or unbearable mental pain, as the primary driver of suicidal behavior. This intense emotional pain can make life feel impossible to manage, regardless of one's material success.

Perfectionism and Pressure: Highly successful individuals often hold themselves to impossibly high standards and, when they perceive a failure or inability to keep up, they may fall into a deep crisis. The pressure to maintain a perfect public image can lead to immense internal turmoil, often described as "Pennface"—appearing calm and successful on the outside while struggling desperately on the inside.

Isolation and "Superficial" Relationships: Despite being surrounded by people, successful or famous individuals can experience profound loneliness. They may feel they cannot trust others or that their relationships are superficial, leaving them with no one to turn to for genuine support.

Feeling Like a Burden: Even with all the resources in the world, a person may mistakenly believe that their loved ones would be "better off" without them. This distorted thinking often convinces them that their death would be a relief to others

Impulsivity: Sometimes, suicide is an impulsive act triggered by a sudden, severe crisis, particularly when combined with substance abuse, which can lower inhibition. ..................

I know this might be too much for you to take in, or even bother to read, but it shows it's biological, genetics, and life altering events, along with substance abuse, where it isn't fully known unless the individual is diagnosed and followed up to see the root cause or causes..

Thats AI. You need to read studies. BDD is a massive risk factor. Your old theories have been debunked.

6 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

More vague statements with no science. BDD people are 25% likely to try suicide which is far greater than the general population. You need to read science and catch up.

You just read that for the first time, like finding those links. It's quite easy to look things up these days, even when you know nothing about a certain subject. Some aren't fooled. You need to understand reading for 30 years, up to recent, is more than looking up links to try and disprove another.

1 minute ago, Harrisfan said:

Thats AI. You need to read studies. BDD is a massive risk factor. Your old theories have been debunked.

I don't have theories. i go by facts and studies. They still don't know but a very little of how the brain works with the disease. Don't guess. AI actually shows a lot of things very quickly, if you understand how it works.

Just now, Harrisfan said:

You ran away to Thailand

Well, at least it was cheaper and better than Florida and Spain 😉

I had an horrible L4 and L5 chronic pain which resulted in inactivity and depression together with chronic low vitamin D, and here started to walk the beaches, massage, swimming, climbing, kayaking, scuba diving, free diving, hiking, motorbike touring, ?

Reading books, social every day and night, that healed all my problems. But I have been going back and forth for work and family, only during COVID-19 I stayed permanently. Now I'm moving back for good.

Mental health is nr one, even most complain about the physical body, there is always an underlying issue for many how their mental health truly is.

And discover the small treats for your brain that makes a difference is gold. Pure gold.

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Well, at least it was cheaper and better than Florida and Spain 😉

I had an horrible L4 and L5 chronic pain which resulted in inactivity and depression together with chronic low vitamin D, and here started to walk the beaches, massage, swimming, climbing, kayaking, scuba diving, free diving, hiking, motorbike touring, ?

Reading books, social every day and night, that healed all my problems. But I have been going back and forth for work and family, only during COVID-19 I stayed permanently. Now I'm moving back for good.

Mental health is nr one, even most complain about the physical body, there is always an underlying issue for many how their mental health truly is.

And discover the small treats for your brain that makes a difference is gold. Pure gold.

Do you drink beer? Preservatives in beer can make you feel bad.

Just now, Hummin said:

Well, at least it was cheaper and better than Florida and Spain 😉

I had an horrible L4 and L5 chronic pain which resulted in inactivity and depression together with chronic low vitamin D, and here started to walk the beaches, massage, swimming, climbing, kayaking, scuba diving, free diving, hiking, motorbike touring, ?

Reading books, social every day and night, that healed all my problems. But I have been going back and forth for work and family, only during COVID-19 I stayed permanently. Now I'm moving back for good.

Mental health is nr one, even most complain about the physical body, there is always an underlying issue for many how their mental health truly is.

And discover the small treats for your brain that makes a difference is gold. Pure gold.

True, everyone's body falls apart in time, and some have chronic pain they can't handle, and feel taking their own lives is the only way out, without looking for help. Others have been suffering all their lives with depression, and when the body fails, they do the same thing and try to leave.

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I don't have theories. i go by facts and studies. They still don't know but a very little of how the brain works with the disease. Don't guess. AI actually shows a lot of things very quickly, if you understand how it works.

You posted no studies or facts. You posted AI which is just opinions.

1 minute ago, Harrisfan said:

You posted no studies or facts. You posted AI which is just opinions.

AI takes into affect studies and opinions. I have posted plenty of links in the past which you didn't bother to read. You need to understand there are many reasons people take their lives, and some are from BDD and some are from depression, which is biological and genetic.

It's always better to educate yourself fully before you enter an argument with someone who has first hand experience and knowledge on a subject, and not just opinions or looking things up to again, argue. I'll take back my statement and provide a link, although it might go over your head...............https://www.suicidecallbackservice.org.au/worried-about-someone/why-do-people-become-suicidal/

BDD is deadly

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032724008899

According to Katharine A. Phillips, MD, Rhode Island Hospital and Alpert Medical School of Brown University, Providence, suicidal ideation is more common with BDD than with major depression, and suicide completion rates are at least 22 times higher in the general population

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/740015

In an observational study of 200 persons with BDD followed up for almost 5 years, the rate of completed suicide was 22 to 36 times higher than the general population, Dr. Phillips reported.

"The 22-fold increase is based on death certificates of confirmed suicides, while the 36-fold increase is based on cases in which suicide was deemed likely but was unconfirmed," she said.

1 minute ago, Harrisfan said:

Do you drink beer? Preservatives in beer can make you feel bad.

I drink very little

Beer, pot and other drugs as well prescripted, are just temporary solutions, and will not solve your real problems. Creating a new addiction and problems to camouflage the real problem.

Temporary medication is necessary, but if not solving the core issue? Why

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

True, everyone's body falls apart in time, and some have chronic pain they can't handle, and feel taking their own lives is the only way out, without looking for help. Others have been suffering all their lives with depression, and when the body fails, they do the same thing and try to leave.

Suicide is the easy option for many, unfortunate

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Suicide is the easy option for many, unfortunate

True, if they only got help or realized tomorrow is another day. My best friend, who had everything going for him, took his life back in 1987. Wife, house, job, hobbies, many friends, played drums, loved music,family, etc, but when I looked back, he was always sleeping late and like Robin Williams, was a comedian all the time. Self medication but like most others around us, socially. If they only knew more back then and someone suggested seeing a doctor, he likely would still be here.

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Suicide is the easy option for many, unfortunate

Suicide be hard not easy.

7 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I drink very little

Beer, pot and other drugs as well prescripted, are just temporary solutions, and will not solve your real problems. Creating a new addiction and problems to camouflage the real problem.

Temporary medication is necessary, but if not solving the core issue? Why

Self medication is what a large amount do, to temporarily alleviate the pain and feelings, but it doesn't take the place of a real diagnosis, therapy and possible medication for the symptoms.

Just now, fredwiggy said:

Self medication is what a large amount do, to temporarily alleviate the pain and feelings, but it doesn't take the place of a real diagnosis, therapy and possible medication for the symptoms.

They should research topics to see what the real problem is. Most forms of depression can be fixed with diet and exercise. BDD is not so easy to fix. Most doctors give bad advice as they don't specialise in depression or BDD.

15 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I drink very little

Beer, pot and other drugs as well prescripted, are just temporary solutions, and will not solve your real problems. Creating a new addiction and problems to camouflage the real problem.

Temporary medication is necessary, but if not solving the core issue? Why

I find beef makes be feel good. Must be the nutrients.

Beef consumption has been linked to reduced risk of depression in several recent studies, particularly through Mendelian randomization analyses using large datasets like the UK Biobank. A 2023 study by the National Health Research Institutes (NHRI) found that beef intake was associated with a lower risk of major depression, while vegetables and fish showed no significant effect. This suggests a potential causal protective relationship between beef consumption and mental health.

9 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

They should research topics to see what the real problem is. Most forms of depression can be fixed with diet and exercise. BDD is not so easy to fix. Most doctors give bad advice as they don't specialise in depression or BDD.

Most doctors aren't psychiatrists. Psychiatrists are the ones who a person with depression should see. Most doctors aren't prescribing exercise and nutrition either but medications that have side effects and kill thousands of people yearly. You can't readily "fix" depression unless it's environmental or seasonal. Clinical is not the same. It requires a diagnosis plus therapy and possible medication to treat the symptoms, as its many times genetic and biological and exercise and a good diet, while helping, isn't a cure all.

14 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

True, if they only got help or realized tomorrow is another day. My best friend, who had everything going for him, took his life back in 1987. Wife, house, job, hobbies, many friends, played drums, loved music,family, etc, but when I looked back, he was always sleeping late and like Robin Williams, was a comedian all the time. Self medication but like most others around us, socially. If they only knew more back then and someone suggested seeing a doctor, he likely would still be here.

The main thing or issue is, it is copeable when you are younger, when have more energy, and not so many or so much chronic pain yet, but when older, you have to pay for your shortcuts, so for many that is not manageable, and they choose the easy option out. Nobody can say it is easy, but for them it is easier than have to change their life.

I got 3 friends now who choosed to take their life, and many more who most likely camouflaged suicides as accidents. And all of us was willing to die in action for the next experience and the next. That's also a lifestyle "Risking it all for Nothing"