14 hours ago, Schoggibueb said:

And suddenly…

…the sound of silence…

from the MAGA fanboys.

I've got to give props to former NYC Mayor Eric Adams (D), who (probably accidentally) committed political suicide by asking for $12 Billion in federal money to cover the city's cost of their 110,000 "newcomers" over 3 years.

That breaks down to $36,000 a year, per head. Not surprisingly, he's no longer mayor after dropping that truth bomb.

You can do all the pretzel logic you want about jobs and such. The bottom line is that US taxpayers can't afford $36K a year times tens of millions of "newcomers". Even if it's 1/3 of that, we can't afford it.

13 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Just out of curiosity, for those who agree that the US is more or less addicted to illegal labour: who DO you think should be deported, if anyone? And conversely who should be left alone?

For me, ICE should be targetting criminals both convicted and accused, which they generally do. However, if other illegal aliens are swept up at the same time, they get taken too. They do not get released. Including anyone who used to have TPS.

Trumps original idea on illegal immigration was almost entirely skewed towards criminals - which is why so many readily agreed to it. Who wouldn't want rapists, murderers, peodophiles and gang members living illegally in the US and causing distress and havoc sent back to where they came from, but that was already being done under Obama and Biden - they just didn't make it 'a thing' (and were much more successful for keeping it low profile). What then happened was ICE was given quotas that they must reach and since so many criminals are not as easy to catch as people think (they are criminals after all) the remit got wider and wider until it started sweeping up anyone who was in the country ilegally, even if they were trying to 'do the right thing' and apply for asylum. This is why you see so much racial profiling now and parents being seperated from kids and the likes.

The right are so happy to label those that don't agree with Trumps policy (especially the likes of Yellowtail and Yagoda) as supporting illegal immigration when that is simply not the truth and it's far more nuanced - just concentrate on finding all the criminal elements and deport them but if someone is in the US illegally and has been for some time, with a job and a family and is being a constructive member of society then don't just lump them all in together with the criminals but allow due process and a SENSIBLE approach to citizenship. Oh and whilst you are at it - why don't you go for the employers of illegal immigrants, especially when things like the H-2A temporary agricultural worker visas are available but ignored?

6 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Do you think that building trade unions will put up resistance to this? Featherbedding comes to mind.

They sure will until someone at the top replaces most of them with AI. Lol

18 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

Do you think that building trade unions will put up resistance to this? Featherbedding comes to mind.

Put up with what? Union sheet metal workers that work in a manufacturing facility are "blue sticker" and the ones on the jobsite are "yellow sticker". Same union, different rates. It will just be the same thing. The blue-sticker guys make $20 an hour, the yellow sticker guys make $40.

There is nothing new about modular housing.

22 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Trumps original idea on illegal immigration was almost entirely skewed towards criminals - which is why so many readily agreed to it. Who wouldn't want rapists, murderers, peodophiles and gang members living illegally in the US and causing distress and havoc sent back to where they came from, but that was already being done under Obama and Biden - they just didn't make it 'a thing' (and were much more successful for keeping it low profile). What then happened was ICE was given quotas that they must reach and since so many criminals are not as easy to catch as people think (they are criminals after all) the remit got wider and wider until it started sweeping up anyone who was in the country ilegally, even if they were trying to 'do the right thing' and apply for asylum. This is why you see so much racial profiling now and parents being seperated from kids and the likes.

The right are so happy to label those that don't agree with Trumps policy (especially the likes of Yellowtail and Yagoda) as supporting illegal immigration when that is simply not the truth and it's far more nuanced - just concentrate on finding all the criminal elements and deport them but if someone is in the US illegally and has been for some time, with a job and a family and is being a constructive member of society then don't just lump them all in together with the criminals but allow due process and a SENSIBLE approach to citizenship. Oh and whilst you are at it - why don't you go for the employers of illegal immigrants, especially when things like the H-2A temporary agricultural worker visas are available but ignored?

This is simply not true. People that voted for Trump support deporting virtually illegal aliens. They don't like what the left shpws them in TV, but that does not mean they support mass migration.

In my home country of Australia we had over 65,000 people a year leaving aged care worker jobs. The government awarded a massive increase in wages to stem this. In my wifes nursing home and in others i know wage increases did not increase the level of "Australian" workers they dont want to work in this heavy demanding industry my wifes nursing home has about 85% to 90%

Immigrant's working as "nursing assistants" mainly indian and nepalese, my wife Thai. Around my city most vegetable farms are owned and run by cambodian people, thank god for them, it is an industry always owned since the 1950's and worked by immigrants, it is very hard work bending over and picking .

I see in florida that the aged care homes are in a "catastrophic shortage" as it "heavily relies on immigrant workers" and also poor wages. Fixing the wages wont just be the answer.

4 minutes ago, MeRakThai said:

In my home country of Australia we had over 65,000 people a year leaving aged care worker jobs. The government awarded a massive increase in wages to stem this. In my wifes nursing home and in others i know wage increases did not increase the level of "Australian" workers they dont want to work in this heavy demanding industry my wifes nursing home has about 85% to 90%

Immigrant's working as "nursing assistants" mainly indian and nepalese, my wife Thai. Around my city most vegetable farms are owned and run by cambodian people, thank god for them, it is an industry always owned since the 1950's and worked by immigrants, it is very hard work bending over and picking .

I see in florida that the aged care homes are in a "catastrophic shortage" as it "heavily relies on immigrant workers" and also poor wages. Fixing the wages wont just be the answer.

How much is a "massive increase in wages"?

Were the immigrants working in Australia illegal aliens?

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

Trumps original idea on illegal immigration was almost entirely skewed towards criminals - which is why so many readily agreed to it. Who wouldn't want rapists, murderers, peodophiles and gang members living illegally in the US and causing distress and havoc sent back to where they came from, but that was already being done under Obama and Biden - they just didn't make it 'a thing' (and were much more successful for keeping it low profile). What then happened was ICE was given quotas that they must reach and since so many criminals are not as easy to catch as people think (they are criminals after all) the remit got wider and wider until it started sweeping up anyone who was in the country ilegally, even if they were trying to 'do the right thing' and apply for asylum. This is why you see so much racial profiling now and parents being seperated from kids and the likes.

The right are so happy to label those that don't agree with Trumps policy (especially the likes of Yellowtail and Yagoda) as supporting illegal immigration when that is simply not the truth and it's far more nuanced - just concentrate on finding all the criminal elements and deport them but if someone is in the US illegally and has been for some time, with a job and a family and is being a constructive member of society then don't just lump them all in together with the criminals but allow due process and a SENSIBLE approach to citizenship. Oh and whilst you are at it - why don't you go for the employers of illegal immigrants, especially when things like the H-2A temporary agricultural worker visas are available but ignored?

Ironically, that is the plan generally. In Minnesota, for example, ICE wanted cooperation with local police so that they COULD round up bad guys who were already in trouble. But without that cooperation, they were forced to do inconvenient and inefficient house to house raids and the like. Seems like now that cooperation is happening.

I do not think exclusively targeting "violent criminals" is enough. There are many non violent crimes that are still serious enough to warrant immediate reomoval IMHO- theft, DUI, drug smuggling/dealing, etc.

Giving illegals a path to citizenship is a non starter. Lawbreakers do not get rewarded. Period. Virtually every illegal immigrant has broken laws other than immigration. Working without authorization, driving without insurance and/or a valid license, document fraud, ID theft, etc. They have the opportunity to voluntarily self deport, take a generous stipend, and go home with the chance to apply for a visa the legal way. IF they choose not to do so, the results are on them.

On 2/22/2026 at 8:30 PM, Schoggibueb said:

When migrants leave, they take other jobs with them.

In a press release, the White House posits the equation: "Mass deportations equal lower housing costs, higher wages, more jobs, less crime."

But... the vast majority of Americans can by no means suddenly afford a house simply because migrants are no longer living there.

Trump's immigration policies are having a devastating impact on the labor market.

The deported migrants are missing from the labor market. This is a major problem, especially in the low-wage sector, because that's where most of them work—the jobs that demand the most labor. They make up over 40 percent of all US workers in agriculture, 30 percent in food production and construction, and over 20 percent in the service sector.

Generally speaking, they are working in jobs that US citizens don't want to do.

The Economic Policy Institute, which is affiliated with labor unions, estimates that Trump's planned mass deportations will eliminate 2.6 million US jobs. This is because if immigrant bricklayers and roofers build fewer houses, American electricians and plumbers will also have less work.

"There is no evidence that domestic workers are filling these jobs, no boom in automation investments, or noticeable wage increases in these sectors," writes the Peterson Institute of International Economics.

What threatens the US with Trump's historic shift in migration and tariffs can already be observed in Great Britain

The UK's experience with Brexit serves as an economic testing ground for the US economy. Similar strategies were tested there, strategies that Trump is now applying overseas: hiding behind high trade barriers and massively restricting migration. The result: Britain's annual economic output is now six to eight percent lower than it would have been without leaving the EU, as a recent study by the National Bureau of Economic Research has shown. Three to four percent of all jobs were lost.

Even the Trump administration has now tacitly acknowledged this reality

Where the labor shortage is most severe, it has already reversed course: In the summer, Trump's Agriculture Secretary Brooke Rollins boasted that the goal was "100 percent American workers" on US farms. However, since then, ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) has effectively halted all operations in the agricultural sector.

Last November, the government even launched a new program to recruit foreign farm workers

Behind the scenes, it is questioning its own deportation policy. The Trump Department of Labor admitted in the Federal Journal of Labor—without making a big deal of it—that it does not believe "sufficient numbers of qualified, eligible, and willing American workers can be found to replace the many foreigners who are now no longer coming into the country."

There is also an indirect effect. Those people were also customers, so the market is shrinking. In particular in areas where migrants were concentrated.

2 minutes ago, candide said:

There is also an indirect effect. Those people were also customers, so the market is shrinking. In particular in areas where migrants were concentrated.

While leftists always pretend they are against open borders and mass migration, for the left, it always comes down to this.

 

28 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Giving illegals a path to citizenship is a non starter. Lawbreakers do not get rewarded. Period. Virtually every illegal immigrant has broken laws other than immigration. Working without authorization, driving without insurance and/or a valid license, document fraud, ID theft, etc. They have the opportunity to voluntarily self deport, take a generous stipend, and go home with the chance to apply for a visa the legal way. IF they choose not to do so, the results are on them.

I do not think 'Virtually every illegal immigrant has broken laws other than immigration' but you are more than welcome to provide peer reviewed studies that back up that ascertion as every study I've ever seen says exactly the opposite including this one:- Undocumented people have far lower crime rates than U.S. citizens. https://www.vera.org/news/debunking-the-lies-politicians-say-about-immigrants

Now obviously you will get more illegal immgrants 'Working without authorization, driving without insurance and/or a valid license, document fraud, ID theft, etc.' (mostly classified as misdemeanors) simply because it is impossible for them to get these things (what with them being illegal and all that), and if you count 'impossible things you will never be able to get because we've made it impossible' as a criteria for expulsion then of course the vast majority of people are going to fail. Both Obama and Biden had sensible policies for the issues of law abiding illegals (example - who were married, many of them to American citizens and who had children born in the US) a pathway to citizenship but of course it was blocked by the GOP who see it (like yourself and many here) as simply a black and white case of 'they're illegal so they ALL must go'.

Solution;- sort out the ones that are already in the US by getting rid of the VERY criminal element that is undoubtedly there but give others who are there to be a constructive member of society (with caveats that if you are convicted of breaking the law you are out) a chance to be legal. Then make sure new ones are immediately refused by virtue of coming in illegally and not allowed back in UNLESS they go through the proper channels. Pie in the sky stuff of course because Trump and the GOP have made such a big deal of it - but what is happening in the USA cannot continue to keep happening, something the VAST majority of US citzens support. Sensible people (not the rabid far-right) just want some sensible immigration policies WITHOUT resorting to the extremes you see today.

6 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

 

I do not think 'Virtually every illegal immigrant has broken laws other than immigration' but you are more than welcome to provide peer reviewed studies that back up that ascertion as every study I've ever seen says exactly the opposite including this one:- Undocumented people have far lower crime rates than U.S. citizens. https://www.vera.org/news/debunking-the-lies-politicians-say-about-immigrants

Now obviously you will get more illegal immgrants 'Working without authorization, driving without insurance and/or a valid license, document fraud, ID theft, etc.' (mostly classified as misdemeanors) simply because it is impossible for them to get these things (what with them being illegal and all that), and if you count 'impossible things you will never be able to get because we've made it impossible' as a criteria for expulsion then of course the vast majority of people are going to fail. Both Obama and Biden had sensible policies for the issues of law abiding illegals (example - who were married, many of them to American citizens and who had children born in the US) a pathway to citizenship but of course it was blocked by the GOP who see it (like yourself and many here) as simply a black and white case of 'they're illegal so they ALL must go'.

Solution;- sort out the ones that are already in the US by getting rid of the VERY criminal element that is undoubtedly there but give others who are there to be a constructive member of society (with caveats that if you are convicted of breaking the law you are out) a chance to be legal. Then make sure new ones are immediately refused by virtue of coming in illegally and not allowed back in UNLESS they go through the proper channels. Pie in the sky stuff of course because Trump and the GOP have made such a big deal of it - but what is happening in the USA cannot continue to keep happening, something the VAST majority of US citzens support. Sensible people (not the rabid far-right) just want some sensible immigration policies WITHOUT resorting to the extremes you see today.

If they are in the county illegally, why should they not be deported?

The link you provided is from a pro illegal immigration organization.

19 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

 

I do not think 'Virtually every illegal immigrant has broken laws other than immigration' but you are more than welcome to provide peer reviewed studies that back up that ascertion as every study I've ever seen says exactly the opposite including this one:- Undocumented people have far lower crime rates than U.S. citizens. https://www.vera.org/news/debunking-the-lies-politicians-say-about-immigrants

Now obviously you will get more illegal immgrants 'Working without authorization, driving without insurance and/or a valid license, document fraud, ID theft, etc.' (mostly classified as misdemeanors) simply because it is impossible for them to get these things (what with them being illegal and all that), and if you count 'impossible things you will never be able to get because we've made it impossible' as a criteria for expulsion then of course the vast majority of people are going to fail. Both Obama and Biden had sensible policies for the issues of law abiding illegals (example - who were married, many of them to American citizens and who had children born in the US) a pathway to citizenship but of course it was blocked by the GOP who see it (like yourself and many here) as simply a black and white case of 'they're illegal so they ALL must go'.

Solution;- sort out the ones that are already in the US by getting rid of the VERY criminal element that is undoubtedly there but give others who are there to be a constructive member of society (with caveats that if you are convicted of breaking the law you are out) a chance to be legal. Then make sure new ones are immediately refused by virtue of coming in illegally and not allowed back in UNLESS they go through the proper channels. Pie in the sky stuff of course because Trump and the GOP have made such a big deal of it - but what is happening in the USA cannot continue to keep happening, something the VAST majority of US citzens support. Sensible people (not the rabid far-right) just want some sensible immigration policies WITHOUT resorting to the extremes you see today.

It doesn't matter if something is impossible to get because you are illegal, it is STILL a crime if you do it. Same as it is a crime for legal residents and citizens. Illegals don't get a pass on driving without a license or insurance simply because they are impossible to get. The solution is that they go home.

By definition, EVERY illegal citizen has committed numerous crimes, so the tired bromide that "illegals commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens" is irrelevant. Even ONE crime by an illegal immigrant is one too many. That crime would NOT OCCUR if they were not in the country illegally.

Your "solution" of "if you are convicted of breaking the law you are out" is pie in the sky. EVERY illegal immigrant who is working is breaking the law. Therefore, by your standard, they should be convicted and deported. Come to think of it, maybe not a bad idea...

20 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It doesn't matter if something is impossible to get because you are illegal, it is STILL a crime if you do it. Same as it is a crime for legal residents and citizens. Illegals don't get a pass on driving without a license or insurance simply because they are impossible to get. The solution is that they go home.

By definition, EVERY illegal citizen has committed numerous crimes, so the tired bromide that "illegals commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens" is irrelevant. Even ONE crime by an illegal immigrant is one too many. That crime would NOT OCCUR if they were not in the country illegally.

Your "solution" of "if you are convicted of breaking the law you are out" is pie in the sky. EVERY illegal immigrant who is working is breaking the law. Therefore, by your standard, they should be convicted and deported. Come to think of it, maybe not a bad idea...

And you have to give them a lawyer and spend $20K to convict them, spend $100K a year to jail them, and then give them another lawyer and spend another $50K to deport them.

We have enough domestic criminals and welfare recipients we don't need to import them.

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

It doesn't matter if something is impossible to get because you are illegal, it is STILL a crime if you do it. Same as it is a crime for legal residents and citizens. Illegals don't get a pass on driving without a license or insurance simply because they are impossible to get. The solution is that they go home.

By definition, EVERY illegal citizen has committed numerous crimes, so the tired bromide that "illegals commit crimes at a lower rate than citizens" is irrelevant. Even ONE crime by an illegal immigrant is one too many. That crime would NOT OCCUR if they were not in the country illegally.

Your "solution" of "if you are convicted of breaking the law you are out" is pie in the sky. EVERY illegal immigrant who is working is breaking the law. Therefore, by your standard, they should be convicted and deported. Come to think of it, maybe not a bad idea...

Never thought for one minute you would agree but the reality is despite all of your protestations, there are illegals in the US and many of them have been there for a VERY long time and have families (with children who were born in the US and therefore are US citizens under the 14th amendment) and are constructive members of society. Surely a more realistic solution would be to impliment a way for them to become legal and to continue to be constructive members of society, something that would benefit them and their family, the economy the government (through higher tax revenues) and society as a whole. This 'grab them all and deport the lot because by definition they are illegal' (which you seem to be a fan) just doesn't benefit anyone other than political parties that use it to demonise millions of people.

As I've said many times before, the situation is nuanced and requires better minds than ours to sort out. Obama and Biden at least tried to do something whereas Trump just wants them all out, US citizens included.

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

If they are in the county illegally, why should they not be deported?

The link you provided is from a pro illegal immigration organization.

I only debate people who come with an informed opinion based on facts and verifiable evidence.

That therefore excludes you.

9 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Never thought for one minute you would agree but the reality is despite all of your protestations, there are illegals in the US and many of them have been there for a VERY long time and have families (with children who were born in the US and therefore are US citizens under the 14th amendment) and are constructive members of society. Surely a more realistic solution would be to impliment a way for them to become legal and to continue to be constructive members of society, something that would benefit them and their family, the economy the government (through higher tax revenues) and society as a whole. This 'grab them all and deport the lot because by definition they are illegal' (which you seem to be a fan) just doesn't benefit anyone other than political parties that use it to demonise millions of people.

As I've said many times before, the situation is nuanced and requires better minds than ours to sort out. Obama and Biden at least tried to do something whereas Trump just wants them all out, US citizens included.

I wouldn't make the relatively peaceful and hardworking illegals any kind of priority. But...if they happen to get caught, they are gone. So if a gangbanger from Niaragua is visiting his brother (also illegal) who is otherwise gainfully employed etc, then they both go. The brother needs to be aware that the presence of his criminal sibling is a danger and act accordingly.

It isnt about demonising people. It is about righting a wrong that has gone on for too long. And has hurt low income American workers as well. There is no way for Americans to compete fairly with illegal aliens who are willing to work for relative peanuts, and thereby drive down wages for everyone.

Once the bad guys and grifters are gone, there can be discussion about what to do with those remaining who are otherwise innocuous. But that discussion needs to wait until the situation is stable and all the bad dudes are gone.

12 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

I only debate people who come with an informed opinion based on facts and verifiable evidence.

That therefore excludes you.

Yet you post links to website that spew garbage.

16 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Never thought for one minute you would agree but the reality is despite all of your protestations, there are illegals in the US and many of them have been there for a VERY long time and have families (with children who were born in the US and therefore are US citizens under the 14th amendment) and are constructive members of society. Surely a more realistic solution would be to impliment a way for them to become legal and to continue to be constructive members of society, something that would benefit them and their family, the economy the government (through higher tax revenues) and society as a whole. This 'grab them all and deport the lot because by definition they are illegal' (which you seem to be a fan) just doesn't benefit anyone other than political parties that use it to demonise millions of people.

As I've said many times before, the situation is nuanced and requires better minds than ours to sort out. Obama and Biden at least tried to do something whereas Trump just wants them all out, US citizens included.

There should absolutely be accommodations for the people you describe, as long as they are not criminals and are not on public assistance.

Are you okay with illegal aliens that have been in the county less than five years being deported?

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yet you post links to website that spew garbage.

You just spew your garbage without the links!

4 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

You just spew your garbage without the links!

Where are your links!!!!!

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Where are your links!!!!!

The links are most of your posts above, and most other forums/threads where you post!

33 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

The links are most of your posts above, and most other forums/threads where you post!

So as always, you are proven to have nothing.

On 2/22/2026 at 11:55 PM, Fact said:

I can certainly thrive without the taco food truck.

As well as the thousands of illegals who have lawn care businesses.

Just now, Screaming said:

As well as the thousands of illegals who have lawn care businesses.

That are on public assistance, have no license or insurance and get free medical care.

On 2/24/2026 at 10:14 AM, Yellowtail said:

How much is a "massive increase in wages"?

Were the immigrants working in Australia illegal aliens?

My wife went from AUD $45,000 a year to over $70,000. Most immigrants are mainly awaiting permanent residency, so not illegal. But the point is that very, very few long term Australians want to do this sort of hard work but immigrants do out of necessity.

11 minutes ago, MeRakThai said:

My wife went from AUD $45,000 a year to over $70,000. Most immigrants are mainly awaiting permanent residency, so not illegal. But the point is that very, very few long term Australians want to do this sort of hard work but immigrants do out of necessity.

Don't argue with MAGAS, they've got no ideas. My wife is a nurse in OZ. She makes up to 90.000 dollars. The minimum wages are 23 dollars per hour in America, it is about 6 dollars the land of the free b/s and wars

3 minutes ago, still kicking said:

Don't argue with MAGAS, they've got no ideas. My wife is a nurse in OZ. She makes up to 90.000 dollars. The minimum wages are 23 dollars per hour in America, it is about 6 dollars the land of the free b/s and wars

My wife is an aged care worker and like many other migrants loves working weekends because of our award rates. She has done this for almost 18 years. (We have been married for 22 years)

Thanks for your reply.

1 hour ago, MeRakThai said:

My wife went from AUD $45,000 a year to over $70,000.

I meant generally

1 hour ago, MeRakThai said:

Most immigrants are mainly awaiting permanent residency, so not illegal. But the point is that very, very few long term Australians want to do this sort of hard work but immigrants do out of necessity.

Everyone I know supports legal immigration and legal guest workers.

Would you like Australia's borders open, and illegal immigrants to flood in, be allowed to remain, and to receive public assistance and free medical? That's what the left wants in the US.

1 hour ago, still kicking said:

Don't argue with MAGAS, they've got no ideas. My wife is a nurse in OZ. She makes up to 90.000 dollars. The minimum wages are 23 dollars per hour in America, it is about 6 dollars the land of the free b/s and wars

You can't argue with MAGAs or anyone else. You're a regurgitator, that's it.

Claiming the minimum wage in "America" is $23 is ridiculously wrong. Please provide support for your claim, admit you were wrong, or we can assume you are a liar.