No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

[Hollywood]

Not a word on the THAI MFA web site.

How does Sunbelt have this info and nobody else does???? Why hasnt Sunbelt copied and pasted this info for us all to see? Please reply Sunbelt.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2493 ...CHECK THIS OUT.

Anyone else have this concern or question?

Regretfully if you want new rule change info THIS Forum repeatedly seems to give us the information first. I say regretfully NOT as any criticism of this excellent Forum but that Thailand feels it SO unimportant to update its MFA and immigration websites for the rest of the World's Visa seekers to see. The immigration website STILL has not updated its site to reflect the 1 Oct 2006 rule changes (well had not when I looked 2 Weeks ago).

Regretfully, Thailand seems quick to reject our Visa applications when they are incorrect and to waste ours and their officers time BUT it does not bother to do the obvious thing - that is do its best to advise Visa seekers of THEIR up to date requirements on their 2 main sites (a very cheap and logical option. These are the 2 sites most Internet users will refer to FIRST for VISA information.

But then lets face it the truth is that each Immigration Office THEN interprets the official rules as it sees fit (and the rules give them permission to do so) so we are still none the wiser.

Very Sad

Dave

"....each Immigration Office THEN interprets the official rules as it sees fit...."

I wonder if the answer is to find the right office and senior official that when presented with a renewal and 10-20 thousand Baht tucked discreetly underneath the application, would not have any problem renewing it regardless of some minor details ???? From what I hear of the bribes and payoffs there...Who knows........

[gdhm]

Not a word on the THAI MFA web site.

How does Sunbelt have this info and nobody else does???? Why hasnt Sunbelt copied and pasted this info for us all to see? Please reply Sunbelt.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/2482.php?id=2493 ...CHECK THIS OUT.

Anyone else have this concern or question?

Regretfully if you want new rule change info THIS Forum repeatedly seems to give us the information first. I say regretfully NOT as any criticism of this excellent Forum but that Thailand feels it SO unimportant to update its MFA and immigration websites for the rest of the World's Visa seekers to see. The immigration website STILL has not updated its site to reflect the 1 Oct 2006 rule changes (well had not when I looked 2 Weeks ago).

Regretfully, Thailand seems quick to reject our Visa applications when they are incorrect and to waste ours and their officers time BUT it does not bother to do the obvious thing - that is do its best to advise Visa seekers of THEIR up to date requirements on their 2 main sites (a very cheap and logical option. These are the 2 sites most Internet users will refer to FIRST for VISA information.

But then lets face it the truth is that each Immigration Office THEN interprets the official rules as it sees fit (and the rules give them permission to do so) so we are still none the wiser.

Very Sad

Dave

"....each Immigration Office THEN interprets the official rules as it sees fit...."

I wonder if the answer is to find the right office and senior official that when presented with a renewal and 10-20 thousand Baht tucked discreetly underneath the application, would not have any problem renewing it regardless of some minor details ???? From what I hear of the bribes and payoffs there...Who knows........

No good!!

You cannot look for (or go to your usual office) that may be interpreting the Rules more consistently (if it is NOT not your official local Office coz of the other just announced new rule that seems to be about to be brought in any day. Namely all applicants must apply at their OWN Provincial Imm. Office and not others of their choosing.

ave

Edited September 5, 2007 by gdhm

[oda561]

For all concerned,

I am one of the people affected by this possile change with retirement visa and dependant. I just talked to Pattaya Immigration on the phone. I explained my situation, I am retired and my wife has her visa based on my retirement. I told the Immigration officer about the New Police Order and he told me not to believe all that you read and that your wife has her visa and dont worry.

So now I dont know what to do but wait and see . . .

Dick

Pattaya

[stickyb]

Couple of friends of mine are just about to renew their visas - he has retirement, she has dependant. They went to immigration office in Pattaya this morning and were told "not new rule, still can apply old way" much to their relief.

Also told that the requirement to get stamp from MFA has ben dropped.

[Jingthing]

How are people supposed to plan their lives here when they don't know the rules, what rules are actually enforced, which can be ignored? No wonder thaivisa is such a popular site.

[lopburi3]

For all concerned,

I am one of the people affected by this possile change with retirement visa and dependant. I just talked to Pattaya Immigration on the phone. I explained my situation, I am retired and my wife has her visa based on my retirement. I told the Immigration officer about the New Police Order and he told me not to believe all that you read and that your wife has her visa and dont worry.

So now I dont know what to do but wait and see . . .

Dick

Pattaya

That is the best advise - with luck what has been proposed will be massaged into something a little different before it takes full flight. But expressions of concern are probably very valuable in that process so we don't want to be too laid back either.

[Sunbelt Asia]

That is the best advise - with luck what has been proposed will be massaged into something a little different before it takes full flight. But expressions of concern are probably very valuable in that process so we don't want to be too laid back either.

This is what we are telling people by e-mail as well. Unless your extension of stay is coming up in the next 30 days, just wait and please see what the new amendment reads. I'm still hopeful they will have a " grandfather" clause even though were told it won't have this exemption.

For anyone that has gotten approved since Monday, consider yourself lucky as other applicants have not been as fortunate. I know of one case where the dependent was turned down last Friday because of this new amendment (that has not been published yet in the Royal Gazette.)

Last Friday, a couple hired our firm after the wife was rejected. When questioning the Senior Officer, it was explained Immigration had just gotten a letter that day which stated new amendments to the National Police Order would be published in the Royal Gazette and no more dependent extensions of stay will be allowed based on retirement. The new Order would be signed Sept 1st and was effective even on that Friday.

Some officers may feel they can still approve before the law is published. While other Immigration officers will follow the letter stated. “No more extension of stay for dependents effective immediately”

One thing is guaranteed, new changes will be taking place. What the exact wording will be of the new amendment, we'll just have to wait for the publishing in the Royal Gazette.

As for the father getting a extension of stay with Thai child. It is confirmed that age of the foreigner will not matter anymore but Immigration is still following the National Police Order 606/2549 which states they must be over 50 years old for the extension of stay on that basis. What the new criteria will be for foreigners to qualify who are under 50 years old, we'll just have to wait and see.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Maestro]

So now I dont know what to do but wait and see . . .

That’s right: wait and see.

The immigration officer was correct in telling you that your wife does not, at this time, have to worry, ie she does not have to do anything now. She has her extension of stay as your dependent and she can remain in Thailand until the expiration date of that extension without the need to do anything, except do her address reports every 90 days, and get a re-entry permit if she wishes to leave and re-enter Thailand. Only 3-4 weeks before the expiration of her current extension does she need to find out what the rules will be at that time, and take action accordingly.

--

Maestro

[Bruce1]

Some people like to plan their lives further ahead than 3-4 weeks.

It's all just part of a dastardly plan to keep foreigners feeling uneasy, so they behave.

[sonnyJ]

How are people supposed to plan their lives here when they don't know the rules, what rules are actually enforced, which can be ignored? No wonder thaivisa is such a popular site.

People do not plan their lives in Thailand.

[coalminer]

Just followed a discussion on ASTV, named ThaiWatch.

A few politicians were discussing the "burden" Thailand has to bear with WESTERN TOURISTS.

Not 1 word about Asian tourists.

Lots of images of Western tourists in the beer bars in Pattaya and Bangkok and images of Western tourists in Khaosan Road.

The main feeling of the panel:

"WE DONT WANT CHEAP WESTERN TOURISTS ANYMORE AND SHURELY NOT IF STAYING LONGER THAN NECESSARY."

Watch this trend closely.

[Chopperboy]

Tai people in the region have been given a very bad impression of farangs over the centuries.

The Brits took neighbouring Burma and Malaya, and the French took neighbouring Laos and Cambodia.

The Brits forced themselves upom Siam with the Bowring Treaty.

Their underlying view of farangs is:"Farang's are aggressive and we are not, and so we are vulnerable to them."

We farangs really do have to accept that the praiseworthy view of our nations, with which we were brainwashed in our childhood, is not held by the people of this region.

And we should not be surprised that those of the Tai people who are now living within the nation state of Thailand don't want us here.

The Shan people (Tai Yai) are not zenophobic to ferangs, the brits used to run their country and most think they would have been better off if they still did!

Edited September 5, 2007 by Chopperboy

[gdhm]

Some people like to plan their lives further ahead than 3-4 weeks.

It's all just part of a dastardly plan to keep foreigners feeling uneasy, so they behave.

Agreed,

I think, for once Maestro, forget something namely, that the latest rule change came "Out of the Blue" and effective immediately from 1 Sep 2007. 3 to 4 weeks (even 1 week ago) ago everybody affected, needing to extend around now, was relaxing thinking they knew their extension requirements.

With regard to the 3 to 4 weeks suggestion anyway. i(f there was that time option always) .

Many Thai ladies may choose to accept Farang husbands being away for months and months in a year due for a husbands need to work, earn money to support them both, BUT I cannot imagine many foreign retired couples willingly waiting until 3 or 4 weeks before extension is due, to see if their lives are about to be turned upside down and possibly separated. If they

accept leaving together they may well need to, find a new country or, arrange returning to the home country, sell a home and other property and possessions in Thailand. All of which will take considerably more than 3 to 4 weeks to plan and execute. Even if they find Visa options to delay leaving they still could need many many months if selling property etc.

I know some believe you should live for today, but for me, and I suspect most we like a little more certainty and relaxation in our lives, especially when we reach our later years of live.

Regards, Dave

[thaigene2]

Isn't it possible that all this hub-bub is being promulgated on farang websites just to scare a few naive house owners into selling their houses cheaply and moving to lovely Uruguay or Vietnam? Then the farang speculator picks up a few houses cheap and resells them at a profit when the dust settles.

It may not be accurate. Let's see. But, come on, there's no way this is some conspiracy to get some farang to sell "his" house in Udon-wherever.

No one wants his "wife's" place anyway...at least not another farang!

[gdhm]

Just followed a discussion on ASTV, named ThaiWatch.

A few politicians were discussing the "burden" Thailand has to bear with WESTERN TOURISTS.

Not 1 word about Asian tourists.

Lots of images of Western tourists in the beer bars in Pattaya and Bangkok and images of Western tourists in Khaosan Road.

The main feeling of the panel:

"WE DONT WANT CHEAP WESTERN TOURISTS ANYMORE AND SHURELY NOT IF STAYING LONGER THAN NECESSARY."

Watch this trend closely.

That's very interesting as the Thailand Tourist Board is currently attempting to promote and expand tourism in Thailand. They must be horrified to hear what was said on the program. I cannot believe that these views reflect the majority of Thai politicians or people who understand the economics of Thailand.

Even if Thailand does not want us Western longer stayers here, there is NO WAY it does not want or need Western Tourism and the generated income and jobs that it helps support.

I bet if those politicians comments were leaked to the countries that many tourist come from and they chose to boycott in any reasonable numbers, Thailand would be horrified. Thailand is very popular but it's "not the only fish in the sea for Tourism"

I hate to think what would happen to the Thai economy if Western Tourists ceased to come - look at the Thai tourism industries concerns in the aftermath of the terrible Tsunami a few years back. They understand that even "cheap" Western tourists spend a hel_l of a lot of money in their few weeks here.

Maybe Thailand should not offer Western tourists what they seek (be it sex tourism, or more conventional holidays) then they would not wish to come.

Regards, Dave

[itsbill]

All this indecision about our lives does not suit my wife and I we have talked at lengh over the last few days and we are not going to be held hostge to this possible decision one way or anouther or future changes, we will not have our lives decided in this arbitrary fashon so we have decided to move on to a place with a more reasoned attitude to immigration.

[bunple]

good for you "itsbill", I hope everything goes well and you and your wife have a trouble free retirement from this decision onwards.

[Jimjim]

In my opinion, yes, retired couples when both are not Thai can find many tropical places to retire. One is as good as the other in that situation. If I had a farang wife I wouldn't want to retire here, actually. The biggest reason to stay would only be if I had a Thai wife.

[retiredusn]

After looking at 45/46 pages, talking to the legal sources, talking, talking, talking to all concerned no matter if the gov. changes their collective minds the wife and I have decided to uproot from our thai retirement and move on. This is not easy and in some thought tearful as this is our home but we want to enjoy the rest of our lives somewhat worry free.

Jim & Judy (soon to be gringo)

[JR Texas]

Isn't it possible that all this hub-bub is being promulgated on farang websites just to scare a few naive house owners into selling their houses cheaply and moving to lovely Uruguay or Vietnam? Then the farang speculator picks up a few houses cheap and resells them at a profit when the dust settles.

It may not be accurate. Let's see. But, come on, there's no way this is some conspiracy to get some farang to sell "his" house in Udon-wherever.

No one wants his "wife's" place anyway...at least not another farang!

Anything is possible, but the real estate market has been crashing for several years (many people that want to make money in the industry just can't see it.....some very select areas are doing fine, to be fair). Even the "good times" are simply setting up the crash. Is is happening right now and will get worse over time. So, it is really does not matter even if some person is making this all up. The fact is, they are not making up anything with regard to the way expats are being treated, tourists are being treated, Westerners in general are being treated. Xenophobia is rising in LOS. Much better, more comfortable (physically and psychologically) places to be right now than in LOJ.

[Xangsamhua]

In my opinion, yes, retired couples when both are not Thai can find many tropical places to retire. One is as good as the other in that situation. If I had a farang wife I wouldn't want to retire here, actually. The biggest reason to stay would only be if I had a Thai wife.

If your wife is Lao, Khmer or Burmese there are good reasons to live here, too.

[JR Texas]

Isn't it possible that all this hub-bub is being promulgated on farang websites just to scare a few naive house owners into selling their houses cheaply and moving to lovely Uruguay or Vietnam? Then the farang speculator picks up a few houses cheap and resells them at a profit when the dust settles.

It may not be accurate. Let's see. But, come on, there's no way this is some conspiracy to get some farang to sell "his" house in Udon-wherever.

No one wants his "wife's" place anyway...at least not another farang!

Anything is possible, but the real estate market has been crashing for several years (many people that want to make money in the industry just can't see it.....some very select areas are doing fine, to be fair). Even the "good times" are simply setting up the crash. Is is happening right now and will get worse over time. So, it is really does not matter even if some person is making this all up. The fact is, they are not making up anything with regard to the way expats are being treated, tourists are being treated, Westerners in general are being treated. Xenophobia is rising in LOS. Much better, more comfortable (physically and psychologically) places to be right now than in LOJ.

Forgot to add that three high-ranking officials with immigration (the people behind most of the policy changes) do monitor this forum as you can see by this picture, capturing one of them in the act:

[jackr]

Just followed a discussion on ASTV, named ThaiWatch.

A few politicians were discussing the "burden" Thailand has to bear with WESTERN TOURISTS.

Not 1 word about Asian tourists.

Lots of images of Western tourists in the beer bars in Pattaya and Bangkok and images of Western tourists in Khaosan Road.

The main feeling of the panel:

"WE DONT WANT CHEAP WESTERN TOURISTS ANYMORE AND SHURELY NOT IF STAYING LONGER THAN NECESSARY."

Watch this trend closely.

What burden! Burden relates to a financial obligation and Thailand has none of that regards farangs... they're making a fortune. This is all about skin colour. If they're getting pee'd off with white people in their country, then shut up shop and you can have back all the Thais scattered around the world + restrictions on Thais for travel outside Asia. These are no doubt the same insular politicians who wanted the bars closed at 10pm with opening time 6pm. Xenophobia at its best.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Think the changes aren't going to affect anyone? The Tourism Authority of Thailand just pulled its investment in a long stay company. They claim it was to level the field. With the new regularions and likely more to come they wanted to cut their losses early.

TAT to pull out of longstay company CHATRUDEE THEPARAT

The Tourism Authority of Thailand plans to sell its 30% stake in Thai Longstay Management Co (TLM) to create a level playing field for the industry. Tourism and Sports Minister Suvit Yodmani wants TLM to be privately-run without state support to be fair to other companies in the same business.

AND:

"As of yesterday, TLM, which has registered capital of 100 million baht, reported a net loss of 60 million baht."

Full article here:

http://bangkokpost.com/Business/06Sep2007_biz43.php

Edited September 6, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[jumnien]

A sample reading of posts in this thread tells me that if I were Thai I wouldn't want most of these farang in my country either. I think they feel the same way about the country being flooded with farang as most of us farang do - enough is enough!

[tim77]

All this indecision about our lives does not suit my wife and I we have talked at lengh over the last few days and we are not going to be held hostge to this possible decision one way or anouther or future changes, we will not have our lives decided in this arbitrary fashon so we have decided to move on to a place with a more reasoned attitude to immigration.

My wife and I came to the same decision about eight months ago, and we have relocated to another country in Asia.

For us, it was a number of factors: (i) the constant uncertainty of what the visa policy was and what it might change into; (ii) the bizarre rush to change visa requirements without notice, without clear interpretations, and even without immigration officials knowing what the change was or how to implement it; (iii) the scary comments comments coming out of Thai Embassies, e.g., "farang you stay Thailand too long"; (iv) the backlash against the long permitted company scheme of using a company to own a home; (v) etc.

Edited September 6, 2007 by tim77

[jumnien]

Wow, you moved 8 months ago and you still monitor Thai Visa. Thailand is a compelling place indeed!

[Lite Beer]

Isn't it possible that all this hub-bub is being promulgated on farang websites just to scare a few naive house owners into selling their houses cheaply and moving to lovely Uruguay or Vietnam? Then the farang speculator picks up a few houses cheap and resells them at a profit when the dust settles.

It may not be accurate. Let's see. But, come on, there's no way this is some conspiracy to get some farang to sell "his" house in Udon-wherever.

No one wants his "wife's" place anyway...at least not another farang!

Anything is possible, but the real estate market has been crashing for several years (many people that want to make money in the industry just can't see it.....some very select areas are doing fine, to be fair). Even the "good times" are simply setting up the crash. Is is happening right now and will get worse over time. So, it is really does not matter even if some person is making this all up. The fact is, they are not making up anything with regard to the way expats are being treated, tourists are being treated, Westerners in general are being treated. Xenophobia is rising in LOS. Much better, more comfortable (physically and psychologically) places to be right now than in LOJ.

Forgot to add that three high-ranking officials with immigration (the people behind most of the policy changes) do monitor this forum as you can see by this picture, capturing one of them in the act:

:D

[PeaceBlondie]

Some people like to plan their lives further ahead than 3-4 weeks.

It's all just part of a dastardly plan to keep foreigners feeling uneasy, so they behave.

Agreed,

I think for once, Maestro forget something namely, that the latest rule change came "Out of the Blue" and effective immediately from 1 Sep 2007. 3 to 4 weeks (even 1 week ago) ago everybody affected, needing to extend around now, was relaxing thinking they knew their extension requirements.

...... I cannot imagine many foreign retired couples willingly waiting until 3 or 4 weeks before extension is due, to see if their lives are about to be turned upside down and possibly separated. If they accept leaving together they may well need to find a new country or arrange returning to the home country, sell a home and other property and possessions in Thailand. All of which will take considerably more than 3 to 4 weeks to plan and execute. Even if they find Visa options to delay leaving they still could need many many months if selling property etc.

I know some believe you should live for today, but for me, and I suspect most we like a little more certainty and relaxation in our lives, especially when we reach our later years of live.

Regards, Dave

I agree, Dave. [Pardon me for editing out some excessive commas in your post!]Retirees need 3 or 4 YEARS of advance notice to rearrange their lives and uproot themselves.

I ran into a nice couple yesterday, English, with accents thicker than Yorkshire pudding. They said they had just been advised they could buy a house and land, and a lawyer had told them the visa requirements for retirees. "Last week, or earlier?" I asked. "Yes, last week," they replied. "Well, that changed on Saturday. Your sterling requirement has just DOUBLED. Farang will never be able to own building or land, not as you understood it in the UK. I suggest you enjoy a year here whilst you plan to live in a permanent country."

I'm glad to read that the TAT is considering an exit from Thai Longstay Corporation, which was of dubious value anyway, and was leaking money like a sieve.

[coalminer]

That's very interesting as the Thailand Tourist Board is currently attempting to promote and expand tourism in Thailand. They must be horrified to hear what was said on the program. I cannot believe that these views reflect the majority of Thai politicians or people who understand the economics of Thailand.

In a previous thread, it was already said that TAT and Thailand want "Quality Tourism"

Not the kind of Western tourists who spend 1 or 2 weeks in the beer bars of Pattaya or in Sow Cowboy sponsoring another sick buffalo upcountry.

Even if Thailand does not want us Western longer stayers here, there is NO WAY it does not want or need Western Tourism and the generated income and jobs that it helps support.

Thailand still want Western Tourists, that was never the point.

But Thailand want QUALITY Western tourist and not the kind .... (see above)

I bet if those politicians comments were leaked to the countries that many tourist come from and they chose to boycott in any reasonable numbers, Thailand would be horrified. Thailand is very popular but it's "not the only fish in the sea for Tourism"

Not sure about that.

I live upcountry, and the general feeling that was started about the foreigners set by Thai Rak Thai is still alive.

"We love your money, not you."

I hate to think what would happen to the Thai economy if Western Tourists ceased to come - look at the Thai tourism industries concerns in the aftermath of the terrible Tsunami a few years back. They understand that even "cheap" Western tourists spend a hel_l of a lot of money in their few weeks here.

There will be always a steady flow of Western tourists into Thailand.

No matter how bad Thailand would treat them.

Your assumption that stopping the flow of cheap Western tourists would hurt Thailand is right, but there will always be Western tourists who wants to spend 1 or 2 weeks in the beer bars and feeding the sick buffalo's upcountry.

Maybe Thailand should not offer Western tourists what they seek (be it sex tourism, or more conventional holidays) then they would not wish to come.

That would be the first step in Quality Tourism, the kind of tourism Thailand wants.

But that is of no use to the many Westerners who had setup a life or retired in Thailand and are forced to leave now.

One main point in the panel that raised lots of inputs from the panel in the discussion was:

"What will happen when airplanes starts to bring Western tourists at a ratio of 800 tourist per airplane?"

A point I want to make also is the fact that what many posters implied, "Thailand had never a retirement visa/plan" is just not true and right out a lie.

A few years ago, when I first came to Thailand, at the Embassy there were free leaflets about "Retirement in Thailand" from TAT.