No More Dependent Extension Of Stay If The Host Foreigner Has A Retirement Extension Of Stay Permit

[tim77]

These foreign retirees that are here take nothing and spend, spend, spend and now the government is telling them to go spend somewhere else???

It is my understanding that Thailand NEEDS dollars brought into the country and now they forcing people to take their dollars and go away????

My function here is to bring dollars into the country and hurry and spend them so I can bring more in.

So, you finally see the light ? The ONLY reason farangs are tolerated in Thailand is for their function of milk cows. Not sufficient milk, and then .. go to the butcher.

Did you ever had the idea you as PERSON was welcome in TH ? Or have any legal rights ?

No, your WALLET is welcome. And to get the most out of that Thailand is willing to change any law overnight, forcing you to leave all you build up and paid for in TH behind.

Sorry, for me no secure base to convince me to come to Thailand. Better be "old cow" in Netherlands / E.U..

Yea . . . we are food . .

[rainman]

I agree, a lot cleaner in Malaysia and less crowded too. I was there about 2 years ago (Kuala Lumpur) and it was definitely one of the cleanest cities I've ever been to. What is the average price for apartments there to rent? Does anyone know?

[TexasRanger]

I agree, a lot cleaner in Malaysia and less crowded too. I was there about 2 years ago (Kuala Lumpur) and it was definitely one of the cleanest cities I've ever been to. What is the average price for apartments there to rent? Does anyone know?

When I looked last year there were cheap ones but if you take advantage of their expat programme you have to buy a more expensive property

[Sateev]

Well, if you are an American getting Social Security you better read SSA Publication No. 05-10137 , before moving next door to Cambodia or Vietnam. Page 11 says that the Treasury Department has besides restrictions for Cuba and North Korea; restrictions prohibit sending payments to individuals in Cambodia, Vietnam or areas that were in the former Soviet Union (other than Armenia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Russia). You cannot recieve payments while you are in one of these countries, and they cannot send your payments to anyone for you. If you are a U.S. citizen and are in Cuba or North Korea, you can receive all of your payments that were withheld once you leave that country and go to another country where they can send payments. If you are not a US citizen and usually get social security benefits generally you will not get any of your payments even after you go to another country.

So, I called social security and said well my benefits just go into my bank account in the US and I just use ATM's overseas. and they told me that it is not where they send the money THAT it is where you are physically that they are concerned with. and not to worry just go to the US Embassy and they will have social security information and people that can help you and that you need to go there anyway to report your change of address or contact them.

Just thought I would add this to those who want to go stay in Cambo. It's unbelievable to me that where I am physically should be on such concern if I earned the benefits. They said this affects a lot of missionaries and it is good to know ahead of time in case you are counting on that money. Not trying to start trouble just be helpful catnip

A sad revelation, catnip. Thanks, though, for posting it.

I had Laos in the back of my mind as a new destination, even before all this travesty. Vietnam, too, although I'm loathe to try the language. Laos would be perfect, since the language elements are similar to Thai.

Now, mind you, I'm in approximately the same boat, although my SocSec benefits haven't kicked in yet. However, I maintain a mailing address in the US, as well as a bank account, so, unless they came knocking on my door, the SSA wouldn't have to know where I was, would they?

Kind of sucks, after paying into the <deleted>' system for 40+ years, to have them tell me where I can spend my money...

Sateev

[lopburi3]

Correct me if im wrong.My wife and i are 50 years old so if we want a retirement visa we EACH have to transfer into a thai bank in Thailand 800,000 baht each???

This amount has to stay the same in the bank untill we live in Thailand??

The retirement visa we get has what validity??

Deeply appreciate some guidance on this

thanks

Eddie

You would each have to meet requirement qualifications separately. That could be 800k in account or 65k pension or combinations.

[midas]

Everyone stop writing here and start writing to every news agency...CNN...BBC....THE NATION....BANGKOK POST etc. and also all embassies for some coverage of this. We need to step up and be heard. Please help.

In that case I think it should be a question of using every means possible !

To all Australian and American retirees in LOS you could also

immediately send emails this weekend to your respective delegates at

the annual APEC Summit being held in Sydney next week which the Thai Prime

Minister will be attending.

There are contact email addresses at this link :-

http://www.apec2007.org/apec.aspx?inc=footer/contact_us

If they received a large number of " questions "/ " complaints " by email,

just maybe the Thai delegation would be asked to " please explain " this

very unfair and unjustified action against retired citizens from other APEC

member countries ?

APEC is not entirely a " toothless tiger " and I dont think for one minute Thailand would be

so arrogant as to think it can also afford to get by without continued

APEC membership ( many other countries including India are still desperately

fighting to get in ! )

[robint]

someone already mentioned malaysia

if you are a steady retired flang couple, why do you want to live in LOS? not still chasing ykw?

,alaysia has a very welcoming policy towards retirees with reasonable income. if my memory serves me. 3 mill baht deposited in the bank and you get a 10 year residence visa. after one year you get to use most of that money to buy a house, car etc.

go check google

LOS has lost the plot, why worry

dont believe all the muslim nonesence in the press. its a pleasant law abiding place for resepctable people.

[dreamtime]

I agree, a lot cleaner in Malaysia and less crowded too. I was there about 2 years ago (Kuala Lumpur) and it was definitely one of the cleanest cities I've ever been to. What is the average price for apartments there to rent? Does anyone know?

I would imagine its similar or less money than Bangkok. I'm sure you won't have too much of the $2-4k/mth USD for 1-2 br furnished apts that you see advertised to expats in Bangkok. Unless you are staying in the best building in KL.

You can go to http://malaysia.craigslist.org/. Check out some possibilities there. I'm sure they will be overpriced if a Malaysian is advertising there to Foreignors. But you can check it out anyway. I think the better deals might be from expats who are subleasing their apts. 1 USD is 3.5 Malaysian Ringgit. 1 Malaysian Ringgit is 9.46 Thai Baht.

The quietness of the place is really good. You only find that on the islands here or in smaller cities. You get that in KL in Malaysia. Its nice to experience that in a big city.

[Sateev]

Malaysia! Now there's a place worth checking out. I went there a few months ago. Kulala Lumpur is world class. The infrastructure is fantastic. Highways look brand new. When I was in the taxi coming from the airport to town I thought there was a mistake and I landed in Florida

Or Riyadh, or Damascus, or Tehran...

It's just, well, that stoning of people for having sex thing, that features so prominently in Sharia Law, is a bit of an inconvenience, and, ah, the public whippings! They can REALLY create a traffic tieup, at the MOST inopportune times...

Get serious.

Sateev

[Jingthing]

someone already mentioned malaysia

if you are a steady retired flang couple, why do you want to live in LOS? not still chasing ykw?

,alaysia has a very welcoming policy towards retirees with reasonable income. if my memory serves me. 3 mill baht deposited in the bank and you get a 10 year residence visa. after one year you get to use most of that money to buy a house, car etc.

go check google

LOS has lost the plot, why worry

dont believe all the muslim nonesence in the press. its a pleasant law abiding place for resepctable people.

Not so sure you are correct in your optimism about Malaysia:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayst...tory_id=9724393

I looked into the Malaysia program in detail and without going into it, I found the Philippine program much superior (its a LIFETIME program, not 5 or 10 years at a time), much easier to apply for, (and less money!):

http://www.plra.gov.ph/main/index.php?pid=178〈=1

Edited September 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[puipuitom]

And as for maps, have you ever met a Thai person who can read one ?

I come bfor business to Thailand since 1976.

A tai will turn a map 90 CW, 90 CCW, 180 around, but doesnot have an idea what or where to start.

Only a very specially drawn map to find a factory: they will understand. But going from Kungpayong , Banpong factory Rachaburi to Pongsawai factory, Rachaburi the best way ?? Forget it. I have to tell them how to drive. Even inside Krung Thep, I often have to tell a taxi driver where to go.

[Kaojai]

If you are applying for the extension of stay based on retirement. You now need to provide a map from Immigration to your house.

How ridiculous is this? Immigration cant read an address? If someone has a detailed map of my moo ban...please let me know.......I've never found one.

Will a sketch suffice?

Seriously...is this a joke?

Very ridiculous.

So a retiree can come live here (well, for now anyway), but his wife is not welcome ??

And how many wives of retirees are going to have an independent income?

I seriously question the sanity of some of the people 'running' this country

Well, let's see. They required people to keep the B 800,000 in their accounts for three months because some people were cheating and shifting the money around from account to account.

They required the stamp on the embassy income statements because some people were producing fradulent statements.

It's almost a certainty that this is the result of people trying to cheat the system with dependents of a dubious nature.

And as for maps, have you ever met a Thai person who can read one ?

Just racist nonsense all too typical here at TV.

[Jingthing]

It's almost a certainty that this is the result of people trying to cheat the system with dependents of a dubious nature.

Hello again Kanjai (sic).

I see you are still on about defending any and all crackdowns. Good on you, mate, whats your situation and why do you feel so secure? I asked you before and you never answered. I am really curious because I am trying to imagine what kind of person would have your callous attitude, maybe are Thai real estate shark licking his chops hoping pick up some distressed farang real estate?

Anyway, why didn't you bother to justify the SHORT NOTICE and the inhumane lack of grandfathering of this new brilliant crackdown?

Edited September 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[dreamtime]

someone already mentioned malaysia

if you are a steady retired flang couple, why do you want to live in LOS? not still chasing ykw?

,alaysia has a very welcoming policy towards retirees with reasonable income. if my memory serves me. 3 mill baht deposited in the bank and you get a 10 year residence visa. after one year you get to use most of that money to buy a house, car etc.

go check google

LOS has lost the plot, why worry

dont believe all the muslim nonesence in the press. its a pleasant law abiding place for resepctable people.

Not so sure you are correct in your optimism about Malaysia:

http://www.economist.com/opinion/displayst...tory_id=9724393

I looked into the Malaysia program in detail and without going into it, I found the Philippine program much superior (its a LIFETIME program, not 5 or 10 years at a time), much easier to apply for, (and less money!):

http://www.plra.gov.ph/main/index.php?pid=178〈=1

What country doesn't have ethnic conflicts to some extent? Go there yourself and see if you feel an inkling of what they mention in the article.

[Jingthing]

I like Malaysia well enough. I think the food there is amazing and the people are friendly, but not very much fun. As a Jew, the fact that Israelis are not allowed to travel there doesn't make me feel very welcome!

In any case, the Philippine retirement program is even better than Malaysia's, so if you are forced out of Thailand because of a crappy retirement program, might as well consider perhaps the best one in the world: the Philippines.

Edited September 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[PeaceBlondie]

Well, if you are an American getting Social Security you better read SSA Publication No. 05-10137 , before moving next door to Cambodia or Vietnam. Page 11 says that the Treasury Department has besides restrictions for Cuba and North Korea; restrictions prohibit sending payments to individuals in Cambodia, Vietnam or areas that were in the former Soviet Union (other than Armenia, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Russia). You cannot recieve payments while you are in one of these countries, and they cannot send your payments to anyone for you. ...... catnip

A sad revelation, catnip. Thanks, though, for posting it.

I had Laos in the back of my mind as a new destination, even before all this travesty. Vietnam, too, although I'm loathe to try the language. Laos would be perfect, since the language elements are similar to Thai.

Now, mind you, I'm in approximately the same boat, although my SocSec benefits haven't kicked in yet. However, I maintain a mailing address in the US, as well as a bank account, so, unless they came knocking on my door, the SSA wouldn't have to know where I was, would they?

Kind of sucks, after paying into the <deleted>' system for 40+ years, to have them tell me where I can spend my money...

Sateev

catnip is probably right. I read the portion of 065-10137 about earning money as an employee overseas, before you reach the full retirement age (which is now around age 66+). You cannot work more than 45 hours per MONTH, or else you'll lose all your SSA pension for that month. Even in Thailand, if you don't keep them advised of where you live, they can freeze your pension (they froze mine, as in temporarily cancelling it).

Back on topic: we retirees never have been more than our current "permission to stay" stamp away from being deported. Now it's just easier to get deported, and it appears to be getting worse. It's nothing against the people of Thailand individually. You can love this country and still not meet this month's visa requirements.

[Sateev]

catnip is probably right. I read the portion of 065-10137 about earning money as an employee overseas, before you reach the full retirement age (which is now around age 66+). You cannot work more than 45 hours per MONTH, or else you'll lose all your SSA pension for that month. Even in Thailand, if you don't keep them advised of where you live, they can freeze your pension (they froze mine, as in temporarily cancelling it).

Back on topic: we retirees never have been more than our current "permission to stay" stamp away from being deported. Now it's just easier to get deported, and it appears to be getting worse. It's nothing against the people of Thailand individually. You can love this country and still not meet this month's visa requirements.

Thanks, PeaceBlondie and catnip - I had NO idea it was like this.

Sorry to carry on the off-topic discussion. I was just amazed...

Sateev

[dreamtime]

I like Malaysia well enough. I think the food there is amazing and the people are friendly, but not very much fun. As a Jew, the fact that Israelis are not allowed to travel there doesn't make me feel very welcome!

In any case, the Philippine retirement program is even better than Malaysia's, so if you are forced out of Thailand because of a crappy retirement program, might as well consider perhaps the best one in the world: the Philippines.

Its ok. Tell them you are italian

[Jingthing]

I like Malaysia well enough. I think the food there is amazing and the people are friendly, but not very much fun. As a Jew, the fact that Israelis are not allowed to travel there doesn't make me feel very welcome!

In any case, the Philippine retirement program is even better than Malaysia's, so if you are forced out of Thailand because of a crappy retirement program, might as well consider perhaps the best one in the world: the Philippines.

Its ok. Tell them you are italian

Grazie. Actually, I am often taken for Iranian. No problem for me, just don't like the radical Islamic politics such a policy obviously reflects.

Edited September 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[puipuitom]

I married since 10 Years and have a daughter of 5years I’m since 5Years here in can speak fluent Thai, worked here for 3 Years since 2 Years I spent my Savings to build a Resort since this Year it is a struggle to get the Visa issue done, [/size][/font]

I spent 12 Mio and as it is not finished, no chance to sell it as well.

Means: Trapped here and future unsure.

In Europe you get a Residence Visa after 3 Years married to a European.

Have a lot of friend who left to other countries.

Rick

Do you understand now, why I didnot buy a factory I could get so very cheap, overhaul it, and export to EU, but only buy ready-packed ? ( and swifting all seen Thai attidude more-and-more to China, Sri Lanka, Vietnam and India ?

Sorry, but I am afraid you lost the "1 " in front of the "2 "

Be aware: in Thailand you might be able to hire a "nurse", never a wife ( = partner for good AND BAD times )

At the end you have two friends: your wallet and your bankaccount as not YOU as person, but you as CARRIER OF YOUR MONEY is tolerated.

O.K., maybe a third: your farang passport to get out !

Start to think with your big head, not only the small one. I needed 6 years to come to that conclusion. I only lost a condo, to somebody I thought I could trust as wife I thought after 5 years.

Forget it !

[caughtintheact]

For SunbeltAsia: Was there any reason given for this change?

[Jingthing]

For SunbeltAsia: Was there any reason given for this change?

My theory is: no money no honey.

[xbusman]

What reason would you like to believe? Think Sunbelt has a clue about the reasoning behind any of the business laws here, and if they did hazard a guess at what most long timers think do you think it would be good for their business?

If you want a reason for anything then Thailand is generally the wrong place to be looking. Often described as an enigma enveloped by a mystery afloat in a sea of the unknown.

The trend is very clear, misconstrue it or ignore it at your peril.

[gdhm]

Over the last ten years I've noticed that every time farangs get worked up over a perceived change in any aspect of life here in Thailand, there is a "henny penny the sky is falling mentality" and a rush to predict a mass exodus, forced or voluntary, from Thailand. Life goes on, and more and more farang keep coming. I really don't see anything but more farang in our future here. My advice is to be patient and pleasant and enjoy some aspect of nature and fellow man and watch how things just sort of resolve themselves.

Bravo. Well said. There are a very few non-Thai bashing posts in this thread, but that is about the norm for T.V.

It is human nature to look at the world, in this case Thailand, from your own narrow point of view, ie. falang in Thailand, when if fact, the Thai government has to look at many immigration issues that affect the future of Thailand as a whole.

There is a very big frog sitting on the edge of our small Thai pond, who maybe crouching to jump in, much to Thailand's harm. While that large frog may have been prevented from jumping previously due to a totalitarian government that did not permit emigration and widespread poverty, now that economy is the wonder of the world and the number of middle and upper classes with money have exponentially increased.

If only 10 percent of brits want to retire in Thailand you are looking at a far lower number of potential retirees that 10 % of a billion or more.

As one sage poster pointed out, the greatest number of retirees to be affected by this new regulation are Chinese, who presently are the largest number of new retirees. Lets determine who the target is before we pin that target on ourselves!!

Forgive me for asking, but please can you explain how Retirees living in Thailand who, meet Thailand's financial requirements, are not allowed to own any Thai land, are not allowed to drain any Thai Welfare system resources, are not allowed to work in Thailand (and take away Thais' job) and who are evaluated by Thai Immigration every year for suitability, can POSSIBLY harm or damage Thailand or its interests.

Unless it is felt Thai people themselves may wish and chose to adopt some of the ways and cultures of the West and that is considered undesirable BUT BY WHO if that is the case. At the end of the day the Thai people chose what they want NOT us retirees - that is democracy and freedom to chose?

I have a Thai wife and I have lived here 1.5 years and hope to live here for the rest of my life. I am confused how I and MOST others, may damage or be potential risks to Thai interests. There are around 65 million people living in Thailand and I was not aware that foreigners living in Thailand had so much power to undermine Thailand, its people, its culture, its interests and its desired way of life.

If by any chance in trillion we could do so I wish to ask, just how many of us would EVER wish to do so. We are here coz we like Thailand.

Regards, Dave

[tijnebijn]

Another rule change.......

reading some pages on this topic , I think we should not run too far about these visa issues .

Its not that they are saying you cannot stay , all the changes are all in the extension area .

There are still other ways to keep staying where we are , like a multiple non O , or going back to tourist visas .

Of course it is getting more and more inconvenience , but we married men to Thai ladies already

had a change , with also the extension of stay . My wife is now working very hard to get to the 40k the month income

rule , in the not far past it was 200k , to 400k and 4k the month.

I mean to say many of us already are taking the loopholes , it is up to us to make the requirement .

I am willing to work for that , and just have the inconvenience , for now , the retirement people

could do the same , just travel in and out more until you can show what they need.

And yes I wish it could be more easy , what I can do to change it , NOTHING !

[Phuket Dragon]

Its the rulers not the nation who do this.

How to effect the rulers ?

[solodennis]

The Philippines is in the process of creating a two year Visa and is concidering no visa's for some countries.

[LA Don]

Thailand is making it impossible for farang retirement. To adequately make retirement plans, some amount of stability in the rules is required and there does not appear to be any stabity in Thailand - at the moment.

I, like many others, can deal with the new requirements today. I am not sure if I would be able to deal with the new requirements tomorrow. I cannot risk retiring to Thailand knowing that they can, and do, change the rules without a grandfather clause or even a reasonable advance notice. I believe the Thai government is too unstable today to consider retiring there.

I am going to "Plan B" (MM2H) and I can drive from Penang to Thailand anytime I want to visit.

[Jingthing]

The Philippines is in the process of creating a two year Visa and is concidering no visa's for some countries.

I think you are misinformed. You are talking about Philippine tourist extensions. With those, you can now stay in country as long as 2 years, using many in country extensions. Then you have to fly out and come back and start all over again. There is no visa needed on arrival for many countries already. This was recently liberalized from one year to two years. People have been staying using this status there for years and years, and from what I can tell there is none of the silly stigmatizing of such people that we get here. To avoid all that, you can go for the formal Philippine retirement program and forget all those extensions (every 2 months).

[Jingthing]

Thailand is making it impossible for farang retirement. To adequately make retirement plans, some amount of stability in the rules is required and there does not appear to be any stabity in Thailand - at the moment.

I, like many others, can deal with the new requirements today. I am not sure if I would be able to deal with the new requirements tomorrow. I cannot risk retiring to Thailand knowing that they can, and do, change the rules without a grandfather clause or even a reasonable advance notice. I believe the Thai government is too unstable today to consider retiring there.

I am going to "Plan B" (MM2H) and I can drive from Penang to Thailand anytime I want to visit.

I agree. Future retirees should avoid Thailand. Unless you are massively wealthy and most of those people can retire anywhere in the world and might choose places like Southern France instead. I advise this against my self interests so you know I am sincere. I have no idea who would want to buy my condo when I am forced to sell, why buy when you can't stay?

I think in the long run a mass boycott might be the only thing that can help with this. I am not certain they would wake up and smell the coffee if there was a boycott, but if we don't, and we continue to take what they dish out without balking, there is no chance. Our only power, and it isn't much, is our power to go voluntary or never come in the first place.

Edited September 1, 2007 by Jingthing