back to your question, imagine a gay version of you UG , say he was 7 years old and "ready for it" - I hesitate to even use that phrase - hel_l yes, the man should go to jail.

I agree, but mostly because I am not gay.

If a beautiful 19 year old girl had taken pity on me at that age, I would have nominated her for the Nobel Peace Prize!

A blanket-statement thrown around by a lot of people without any basis in litterature.

Can you cite any literature to the contrary, then ?

I will concede that * a few * kids might mature emotionally earlier than others, but surely legislation & social attitudes ought to err on the side of caution with an issue such as this.

Our forefathers' following of certain practices is hardly a guarantee of their soundness ! I could think of numerous examples of the fallacy there.

^^ haha UG, gulp... that beautiful 19 year old would be a bit weird, or very very compassionate and merciful.

The day dream stuff was more than enough for me when I was a kid.

A blanket-statement thrown around by a lot of people without any basis in litterature.

Can you cite any literature to the contrary, then ?

I will concede that * a few * kids might mature emotionally earlier than others, but surely legislation & social attitudes ought to err on the side of caution with an issue such as this.

Our forefathers' following of certain practices is hardly a guarantee of their soundness ! I could think of numerous examples of the fallacy there.

I'm going to assume you haven't finished any higher education.

A blanket-statement thrown around by a lot of people without any basis in litterature.

Can you cite any literature to the contrary, then ?

I will concede that * a few * kids might mature emotionally earlier than others, but surely legislation & social attitudes ought to err on the side of caution with an issue such as this.

Our forefathers' following of certain practices is hardly a guarantee of their soundness ! I could think of numerous examples of the fallacy there.

Actually, I am mostly in agreement with you when it comes to very young children - under the age of puberty - but when it comes to teenagers, things get a lot more complicated.

A child / young teenager cannot understand the meaning & consequences of sexual activity.

A blanket-statement thrown around by a lot of people without any basis in litterature.

Let's not forget, age of concent is a Victorian heritage. A lot of our kings, forfathers and religios icons married or had relations with people far younger than you could today without going to jail for a very-very long time.

From your statement, one would assume you think this "Victorian Heritage" is a bad thing. The Victorian age is also when people like Dickens were writing about child exploitation & labour and the laws started to get changed to protect children against the dirtiest & most dangerous jobs, which they got given simply because they were small, nimble & expendable.

Just because girls of 12 used to be married off to men of 40 200 years ago doesn't make it right or desirable (to the child!).

I'm all for any law that protects children against anyone who wants to prey on them financially (child labour), sexually or emotionally. Hooray for Dickens, Wilberforce & the Victorians! Sometimes change is a good thing!

I'm going to assume you haven't finished any higher education.

I didn't know education ever finished ?

UG : until we live in a world in which nobody takes advantage of others, we need social agreements & restrictions, and laws. I think what happens between teenagers is, indeed, rather different (though it can be exploitative, too) to what happens between teens and older people.

UG : until we live in a world in which nobody takes advantage of others, we need social agreements & restrictions, and laws.

I understand where you are coming from, but, on the other hand, I have a problem with laws that can ruin someone's whole life for giving in to natural sexual urges that hurt no one and both parties agree to.

November Rain : very true ! The Victorians acquired a bad name as stuffed shirts but many of the leading lights were quite subversive & progressive !

I understand where you are coming from, but, on the other hand, I have a problem with laws that can ruin someone's whole life for giving in to natural sexual urges that hurt no one and both parties agree to.

I think this is true as applied to attitudes towards consenting adults. (Though there can be problems with consenting adults, too; an obvious example being adults with low IQ, who are frequently abused.)

All societies and all legal systems make a distinction between the choices of an adult & a child (though definitions of adulthood vary, and sometimes vary to suit certain predelictions). I do not believe a child/teen can give informed consent and also believe that any adult pursuing kids/teens has issues of their own to face.

Why bother a kid/teen with your sexual "needs" ? There are more than plenty of other ways to have satisfying sexual relations. If someone ignores all these to pursue sexual contact with a child, I think it can be described as natural only to the extent that something like war is.

When I was a young boy, say 12 to 14, if the weather was good, I played football or cricket or kerbie or tick or bulldog, if the weather was inclement, it was inside for Monopoly, Cluedo, Ker-plunk etc ....... girls were only of interest if they were any good at any of the above..... a while later, girls became a curiosity, at the time never sure why, just the whispers in the playground and the pointing at bits in the biology books.

I consider that a normal childhood, if at any point during that time I had been approached by an adult who wanted to 'enlighten me' I would have run a mile, and then my father would have probably killed them.

For any adult to take an interest in any pubescent or pre-pubescent other than explaining the finer points of the off-side rule is wrong, legally, morally and more important, naturally.

Tried to post this earlier straight after NRs reply, but blasted net went down. Anyway..:

Well put NR.

Another thing to note is that if you had sexual fantasies as a child I am sure it would be very different from experiencing the reality. Also, from what UG says, the desire/fantasy was of his own choice and making. Most sexual abuse on children is unconcensual. Being forced against ones will to be touched, or perform acts against ones will, is generally the case. Even if a person purchases material or views images/movies online of a child being assualted they are still guilty of crime against a child. Any forced act upon another human being, no matter what that act may be, regardless their age, I believe is a crime. Its just all the more dispicable when done to a child as they are little aware of what is really going on and how to prevent it happening.

All societies and all legal systems make a distinction between the choices of an adult & a child (though definitions of adulthood vary, and sometimes vary to suit certain predelictions). I do not believe a child/teen can give informed consent and also believe that any adult pursuing kids/teens has issues of their own to face.

Why bother a kid/teen with your sexual "needs" ? There are more than plenty of other ways to have satisfying sexual relations. If someone ignores all these to pursue sexual contact with a child, I think it can be described as natural only to the extent that something like war is.

You have to realize that I am playing Devil's Advocate here, because I do feel that a lot of men are not to be trusted with women of ANY age, but I will also admit that most cases of an adult woman having sex with a young boy and being arrested for it, seem insane to me. Believe me, the boy wants to to do it with all his heart. Who cares if society condones it, or not?

How about that beautiful blond teacher that had an affair with her underage student and got pregnant. They threw her in jail and the first thing they both did as soon as they could get away with it is get together again.

That is love as far as I am concerned and none of society's business.

That is love as far as I am concerned and none of society's business.

Love ?

I think the woman has issues & ought to leave the kid alone.

What do others think ?

I personally think that anyone who willingly and intentionally has a sexual relationship with any child below the age of consent should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I also think that any person male or female who has a sexual relationship with a person albeit of consenting age but less than half their own age has personal issues that need addressing. I am specifically talking about men in their late fifties and sixties who use men and/or women in their twenties. If the relationship is one that is mutually supportive ie financially, emotionally, and physically then I would not be so judgemental but I get the heebie jeebies when I see the ancient lounge lizards with their arm around some young girl or boy in a bar, barely old enough to be a grandchild.

CB

I personally think that anyone who willingly and intentionally has a sexual relationship with any child below the age of consent should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I also think that any person male or female who has a sexual relationship with a person albeit of consenting age but less than half their own age has personal issues that need addressing. I am specifically talking about men in their late fifties and sixties who use men and/or women in their twenties. If the relationship is one that is mutually supportive ie financially, emotionally, and physically then I would not be so judgemental but I get the heebie jeebies when I see the ancient lounge lizards with their arm around some young girl or boy in a bar, barely old enough to be a grandchild.

CB

You and me alike!

I also think that any person male or female who has a sexual relationship with a person albeit of consenting age but less than half their own age has personal issues that need addressing. I am specifically talking about men in their late fifties and sixties who use men and/or women in their twenties.

If you are talking about sex-workers and clients, I guess it is a matter of what turns you on. Personally, I would choose the most attractive lady that would have me and hope for the best. They can and do turn clients down if they desire to.

When I go to the Duke's Steak House, I don't ask for an old, tough, piece of steak because the taste buds aren't so good anymore, I go for the young, tender stuff because it is so much easier to chew.

I personally think that anyone who willingly and intentionally has a sexual relationship with any child below the age of consent should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

child ? ur getting ur words mixed up and unintentionally makes it misleading. all children are below the age of consent.

unless you think 15 or 16 year olds are still children... I prefer a more promising term like "young adult" ... or at least teenager, or in this case the generic "person".

Legality aside, for me, a relationship should be judged good or bad to the degree of win-win-ness, not on age boundaries. Of course, win-win-ness is much harder to evaluate than simple arithmetic.

Slightly digressing from the main topic, but relevant to the last few posts.

As a woman age 34, i think it would be wrong of me to even entertain the idea of dating someone who was a "young adult". I would question myself greately and be very concerned about my thinking if i found a 16 -19 year old dating material. I am not sure if i have found anyone in their early 20's attractive..probably, but again i wouldnt consider them dating material. The last couple of years since being single ive had a few guys in their early 20's ask me out, but i just dont feel comfortable with the idea. I think this viewpoint changes significantly for men. I also think that it is still more socially acceptable for a man to date younger women then vice versa. A man dating a women young enough to be his daughter or even grandaughter may raise a few eyebrows and snide remarks, but seeing an older woman with a MUCH younger man i believe will still shock. My ex was 6 years younger and although we were together 7 years and very happy until near the end, I would generally prefer to meet someone even closer to my age or a little older. He was 18 when i met him (didnt realise until after a couple of dates and it floored me as he looked older) and I was uncomfortable with the idea but decided to give it a shot as he percervered. But even then, there was some stigma to overcome when people found out I was dating a 'teenager'.

Now in my 30's, I cant possibly imagine why people 30+ consider someone under 20 as a potential partner. I am not judging those who do, just its beyond me. If im perfectly honest I also wonder why many men like the 'pre-pubesent'(sp?) look, rather than a more curvacious womanly figure. Even on TV i see guys posting pics of girls that look around 16. Well i guess each to their own.

Slightly digressing from the main topic, but relevant to the last few posts.

Now in my 30's, I cant possibly imagine why people 30+ consider someone under 20 as a potential partner. I am not judging those who do, just its beyond me.

There is the biological considerations, the supposed foundation of sexual attraction, namely a woman of 18, 19, 20 years old is better equipped to conceive (and more than once) than a woman of 30, 35.

I prefer my mangos ripe, not green, I wouldnt get a case of nice mangos from the fruit market if they were going to go bad the next day either...

Slightly digressing from the main topic, but relevant to the last few posts.

Now in my 30's, I cant possibly imagine why people 30+ consider someone under 20 as a potential partner. I am not judging those who do, just its beyond me.

There is the biological considerations, the supposed foundation of sexual attraction, namely a woman of 18, 19, 20 years old is better equipped to conceive (and more than once) than a woman of 30, 35.

I prefer my mangos ripe, not green, I wouldnt get a case of nice mangos from the fruit market if they were going to go bad the next day either...

They all go bad in the end Grover, the trick is to keep enough cash in reserve to make sure you can afford a new mango.

Wise words, oh Great One!

I prefer my mangos ripe, not green, I wouldnt get a case of nice mangos from the fruit market if they were going to go bad the next day either...

They all go bad in the end Grover, the trick is to keep enough cash in reserve to make sure you can afford a new mango.

or could just go give the branch a gentle shake, its ok to eat them if they fall

I find this fencing offensive

The trivialization of child exploitation is beyond the people on here I have come to respect.

Grow up.

You can hide behind clever words. but trying to rationalize abuse needs to stop

suiging>> If you where paying attention the only thing UG did was point out that not all sexual encounters below 18 is abuse. In fact often it's very much the opposite.

If the young woman I had a crush on would have allowed me to when I was the age of 12 I wouldn't have held it against her. But some of you would have put her in jail.

I guess you also have a problem with animals having sex directly after reaching sexual maturity.

Defining mental maturity is so much harder. Heck, some of you should be allowed to have sex even now if I could define it to a standard...

I think I was approx. 15 1/2 when i got involved with my ex (6 years older) and just 16 when I lost my virginity. Total free will, hopelessly in luv. No way my parents could stop me so, in stead, they told me (again) about birth control, on which I replied that i already had taken care of that.

We stayed together for many years.

I think it's difficult to draw a line for teenagers aged 15 16 years old. IMO 14 and below are absolute hands-offs and if one can't s/he should at least receive pshychological treatment.

Nienke

You can hide behind clever words. but trying to rationalize abuse needs to stop

Exactly.

I think that all cases should be treated on their own merits, or dis-credits, whatever the case may be.

If a sixteen year old boy and a fifteen year old girl get together consensually, how on earth can you put him on the sex register for life.

However, if a young man of twenty, gets it together with a fifteen year old, well, that is a wholly different story, but what happens if the ages start getting closer, 15 & 16 O.K, 15 and 20, wholly unacceptable.

15 & 17, 15 and 11 months and 18, blimey, I wouldn't want to make the call, considering the female may well have matured at a faster rate at this time of their lives.

As for using research as a reason, this should be discredited at every level and condemned to such an extent, nobody should even consider it for future use.

Moss

As an aside, have you two fallen out in a previous life, or just this cyber one?

Well, anyway....

I have one question for those who are following this. He was watching (and paying for) videos of children being sexually abused (the one little girl was tied up and blindfolded) for research purposes. Did he report these videos to the authorities as any right thinking person would do?