(Hopefully i can talk about this without it getting deleted. Its respectful!!)

NOTE: im rambling in this post. Got too much time on my hand at this moment and so posting some random thoughts. Maybe its cliche', dunno. But ill leave it up to others if they decide to make sense out of this or add new ramblings to it

On my way back to the airport yesterday at around 5:30pm the cabbi stopped at some lights outside a nana bar.

I havent been around the area much so what i saw tickled my funny bone. In full daylight was a man probably in his late 30's with a Hawaiian shirt and shorts, bopping about with a Thai girl in the bar area right next to the main road, while other cute bar girls looked on and giggled. He obviously had had a few too many and was blissfully ignorant of his surroundings. His eyes and grin were like that of a 5 year old kid at Christmas, and his dancing was basically an in and out gyration with his hands in front like he was holding the handlebars of a bike. The taxi driver noticed me laughing and when he saw what i was looking at started splitting a gut too. Then i noticed most of the people in the cars were in near hysterics too. In hind-sight i wish i had got out my camera and video'd him, then just blanked out the faces later.

Anyway, this is probably not an uncommon sight around there, even in daylight hours i suppose, but it got me thinking. This guy was probably a relative new-comer right? (Well i somehow got that impression. Kid in the candy store kinda look). This cliche' type of guy seems to be harmless, fun, respectful, jovial, and a big teddy bear wanting an experience and a bit of companionship. Basically probably loving the fact he can dance like a total tosser and the woman laugh with him rather than be rude and mean to him. Basically also, with still some decent level of respect towards women, regardless of their profession.

But, when a guy becomes 'seasoned' or an expat and is around this 'scene' a lot im given the impression it changes men. Im i wrong in thinking this? Maybe its not the scene that changes them..maybe they are like that when they arrive? Or other external factors change them and not the 'scene'?

What im curious about is when does a regular guy who is respectful to all women (including western) change into the peacock strutting guy who either disrespects most women or those who forget about personal space (ie: I was in a coffee shop and nearly bumped into a guy when i turned. Jumped a little when turned and noticed him then apologised. He put his hands on my shoulders and ran them down my arms in a very slow touchy-feely way and smiled at me in a sortof 'daddy way'. ). Then there are also the cynics who complain about eVerYthiNg. Then their are some men who just have no respect for western women. Before you get a chance to open your mouth you are already condemned for what you represent. Worst of all is the men who no longer seem to have any respect for women, regardless of their race or 'status'. (also once sat next to an attractive black man who had a young thai girl with him at an airport cafe and was sickened at him waving a 1000baht note in front of her saying things like "you want this dont u?", "want it?", etc and laughing.)

Well..maybe its not the scene that changes some men, maybe its just their expectations of what their life would be was unrealistic. I wonder how western women change. Do they have a more realistic view or ? Are my observations on some people just plain wrong, or too generalised? Heck ok, now the post really has gone off on a tangent. Well add to it what you will or maybe it will die before it even has a chance to take off!

Note2: im not condemning people when i observe them/talk to them (unless they hurt a child and serious crimes of course). I just find people watching fascinating and really wonder what makes us 'tick'.

I am certainly not the same person that first hit these shores at the turn of the century. I can't tell you when the change happened, I can only say that it wasn't gradual.

I still visit Pattaya infrequently, I still have the utmost respect for most of the people that work there, but you won't find me getting on stage and swinging round the pole anymore. Is it down to age of just the steel platting I think you acquire after a while?..... I'm not entirely sure.

Thaddeus, here's me forgetting what year it is. Turn of the century, I thought, "good god how old is this man?" Didn't get enough sleep last night between the loud thunder and hubbies snoring

Call me naive or inexperienced, eek, but I've never had a western man be rude to me in person merely because I am a western woman. Only on this forum

But anyway, what has living here changed about me? Well, it's taught me patience. And hopefully some acceptance of other people's differences. But, essentially I am still the same opinionated person I always was.

Can't a bloke have a few beers and a little dance without everyone calling him every name under the sun? Most women I know want men to dance with them!

And another thing, that shirt and shorts set cost me a lot of money and I was assured it was the height of fashion!!

Interesting that you say the change wasnt gradual Thaddy but not being able to pinpoint why or when.

sbk, actually have to say ive not had anyone be particularly rude to my face. Occasionally I receive a look of disgust from western men which i have read into as a general dislike for me just because im female and western (but i could be wrong). I have also had men openly discuss certain topics in a pretty derogatory way (ie: female anatomy. But its more the choice of words used than the topic itself) whilst im sitting in a cafe next to them. I cant imagine this kind of conversation being discussed at top volume in many other places (except maybe in a pub after a few too many) but maybe im being naive. I do know of one western lady who works in a school and the other western male teachers will actively avoid talking to her. Even going so far as seeing her coming towards them in a corridor and then turning about to get away lol. I dont know the lady personally yet as it is her husband im friends with and he was the one who told me. Hes a fun guy and they have been happily married 17 yrs so i somehow doubt its an issue with her personality. Hey but im still learning. Either way im happy with just getting on with my life. As i said, i love people watching, and enjoy trying to figure out why we act certain ways.

I suppose im just so new to Asia that everything is still so fascinating. Esp how people respond to the environment. I find other western people here the most interesting to watch because im beginning to notice things like whos probably new to here, whos probably an old hand etc. Things like people trying to be respectful and waiing everyone regardless of age or job. (Im thankful that a Thai friend taught me early on who i should and shouldnt wai and the differences in wai height although im pretty dam_n sure i still mess up a lot). To me Thailand is so different to most other cultures ive had to try adjust to. A whole wibbly wobbly world of its own and rarely a dull moment.

Can't a bloke have a few beers and a little dance without everyone calling him every name under the sun? Most women I know want men to dance with them!

And another thing, that shirt and shorts set cost me a lot of money and I was assured it was the height of fashion!!

Aww not to worry noone was calling you any bad names. Nice dance moves you got there Old Croc.

When I first got here I was in my early 30s and quite fit, now I am over 50 and absolutely disgusting, however, I have always been respectful to the bargirls and that has never changed.

I speak Thai fairly well, am nice to the girls and am easy to please, so it is easier for me to connect now with the girls that I like best than when I was a young man.

Even for all us "normal guys" living in Thailand, Nana is OK for the occasional bit of relief.

Unfortunately, I can hardly classify myself as normal!

I've gotta admit, Nana isn't my cup o'tea. I do go sometimes if i'm with a bunch of guys who insist on going but I was in Bangers last month, all alone, waiting for the TV football p1ssup to begin. With the Mrs not around, I could have gotten upto absolutley anything i desired. So i went for a KFC Not had one for ages

Interesting that you say the change wasnt gradual Thaddy but not being able to pinpoint why or when.

I've been thinking about this long and hard for the last few hours and I can actually pinpoint both when and why.

When was the 8th Feb 2005, around 10pm.

Why will take a little more explaining....

My first visits to LOS just happened to be in the company of millionaires, real millionaires in Sterling, I wasn't that well off but I was on a very good salary and we ate at the best places, always ordered the best wine, rang the bell in every bar and had all our names stencilled on the mirrored walls to prove it and left huge tips everywhere.

Then I was seduced by the dark-side and introduced to Isaan, the name of the dark-side being Kae (Lamai) it took some time but the larger brain managed to persuade the smaller one that we were being taken for a ride and I managed to get out of that one pretty much unscathed....... but then I was hooked on Isaan.

Cut to the chase.... I'm sleepy and it's way past my bed time.

I still go to Patts, I still have my few favourite bars and some of the staff are still the same people that I met all those years ago, the main difference between now and then is, I sit with the staff, I don't dance on the stage anymore, but I clap and smile that famous Thai smile when a falang does, I've practised my 'hello sexy man, sit dow plee" speech and I start birthday celebrations for staff members who are nowhere near their birthday...... living in Isaan gives you an unprecedented insight into the lives of the people who are dancing with that drunk falang....... I still smile, but for completely different reasons now.

Had to laugh at Mr bojangles. I spend a couple of nights a year alone in Bangkok and my thoughts always turn to pizza or a hamburger.

I spent a few years as a serious player in the "play for pay" scene and did nothing I regret. No girl was ever poorer physically, mentally or financially for having known me.

I don't think it affected me either, I certainly saw familiarity breeding contempt in others, and the old adage about prostitution leading men to treat all women like prostitutes is very true in many cases. But I never let it harden me, I've always loved women, and more importantly I've liked them. The temporary use of a body that had long been seen as a commodity by it's owner was always new and exciting and I looked forward to every "conquest" and I certainly felt gratitude towards them. (Except the 50year old female former Olympic wrestler I woke up with at Chaweng Beach one morning who DEMANDED that I receive satisfaction for my money).

Would I go back to it now if my relationship failed? Maybe... I'm getting to the stage physically now where maybe I'd be the one who got undressed under the towel though.

Eek, you made me laugh out loud!!

The times i have been to Thailand I have gone with two or three male friends who have good, well paid jobs here - wearing suits, working long hours, going to the pub once a week.

Well, when we get there - out come the shorts, flip flops, hawaian shirts etc. And the dancing.... and drinking and the bar fines etc. The first time i was shocked but now it is a laugh and we remember it all with great amusement.

The one thing that I noticed and admire about my "body guards" is that they are never rude or derogatory towards the bar girls. If they had been they would have had me to contend with and they keep an eye on me too, making sure that i have a good time too - taking me to see Elvis, good restaurants and making sure i am safe.

But must agree - it's the dancing that makes me roar with laughter, not that they are bores at home - just good to see them letting their hair down for a couple of weeks a year. And they know that i have the photos to prove it........

I usually get accosted by women.

They pay my bill in the bar,

they take me back to their hotel,

they use and abuse me all night,

they buy me breakfast,

and then they send me out.

I don't know why no-one bothers to fall in love with me and treat me with respect.

I usually get accosted by women.

They pay my bill in the bar,

they take me back to their hotel,

they use and abuse me all night,

they buy me breakfast,

and then they send me out.

I don't know why no-one bothers to fall in love with me and treat me with respect.

Not everyone can be lucky in love!

I usually get accosted by women.

They pay my bill in the bar,

they take me back to their hotel,

they use and abuse me all night,

they buy me breakfast,

and then they send me out.

I don't know why no-one bothers to fall in love with me and treat me with respect.

Funny I get the same thing but then I go and wake up, it's a bu66er those wet patches in the bed.

Is it trowsers-down time? ..ok...as we're at it...

I will never forget the first time I have been abducted into a go-go bar. Must have been Cowboy, and it was a Thai guy you pulled me there from the safe haven of the hotel bar where we met. Yes, I was shocked and never ever wanted to go there again.

Days later, some French guys pulled me from the same hotel bar (the place where I stayed at for my interview...) to Nana. Shocked even more...

Then somehow gotten used to it, excited in between, eventually bored. Now married to a Thai girl and as by writing of this post I sit alone with my laptop in a Bangkok hotel room downing some cans of beer and not going out at all.

On a side note: I never saw the point of tossing around big bucks in bars (nor did I have those bucks.... ). I was hanging out a lot in Nana and Cowboy, though. Funny it was, lots of girls came home with me and I never spent a Penny - not even on barfines! okok...I know this makes me now a male-chauvinistic worst-case scenario, but it's just the way it was!

Funny it was, lots of girls came home with me and I never spent a Penny - not even on barfines! okok...I know this makes me now a male-chauvinistic worst-case scenario, but it's just the way it was!

Never spent a penny at Nana?

Don't worry, about looking like a male-chauvinist, you look a lot more like a liar.

Funny it was, lots of girls came home with me and I never spent a Penny - not even on barfines! okok...I know this makes me now a male-chauvinistic worst-case scenario, but it's just the way it was!

Never spent a penny at Nana?

Don't worry, about looking like a male-chauvinist, you look a lot more like a liar.

It's true...I hardly ever spent a Penny on girls apart from the odd 100 Baht "taxi money"...was not living like a monk either!

I usually get accosted by women.

They pay my bill in the bar,

they take me back to their hotel,

they use and abuse me all night,

they buy me breakfast,

and then they send me out.

I don't know why no-one bothers to fall in love with me and treat me with respect.

Wait till you meet a naive & a simple catch who will proudly marry you and buy you a house to be her Prince !