Pattaya Immigration New Visa Rules Changes

[astral]

So, this Thai officer is really saying that the expats are criminals, not only that the paper is worthless, yes?

Yes that is the case.

Get used to it and get on with life.

[PeaceBlondie]

It's easy for farang far away from home (having escaped home and hearth purposely) to tell more lies in a country where the highest officers make lies publically. But let's not blame it on the Thais who show us how to lie to our own embassy officers.

When it was my job as a tax auditor to judge the value of written documents and personal testimony, self-serving statements were always the most suspect. At the IRS, just seeing a document in which the taxpayer had sworn under oath as being true and complete (the tax return itself) was not convincing enough by itself.

It's a little too easy to just run down to the embassy and sign your name to an inflated claim. It's more difficult to prove to a Thai immigration officer that you clearly have the money being deposited in your bank account.

[007]

It's easy for farang far away from home (having escaped home and hearth purposely) to tell more lies in a country where the highest officers make lies publically. But let's not blame it on the Thais who show us how to lie to our own embassy officers.

An Immigration officer at the Immigration office in a well-known Thai beach resort offered me once (only a few years ago) to have my passport travel 'alone' to the border for exit/entry stamps. I didn't take the offer. Superfluous to say that I wouldn't trust these people having my credit card details...

Edited October 31, 2007 by 7

[Jingthing]

It's easy for farang far away from home (having escaped home and hearth purposely) to tell more lies in a country where the highest officers make lies publically. But let's not blame it on the Thais who show us how to lie to our own embassy officers.

An Immigration officer at the Immigration office in a well-known Thai beach resort offered me once (only a few years ago) to have my passport travel 'alone' to the border for exit/entry stamps. I didn't take the offer. Superfluous to say that I wouldn't trust these people having my credit card details...

Don't worry. This isn't happening! Its a rumor. Where has one expat claimed this has happened to him posted here?

[eyebee]

From today's Pattaya Today confirming the rule changes (not online yet):

The latest changes are not in force in every immigration office, but are specific requirements at the Pattaya office. A spokesman sais, "Pattaya has an unusually large number of foreigners on its books and these amendments are designed to provide evidence of good intention on their part. Retirement applicants will show a current ATM or credit card as evidence they are in good standing with a bank [...]. Separately, those applying for extensions on shorter visas will need to show they have a clear plan to leave the country once the extension is used up.

I don't think it can get clearer than that! However I reckon they will drop this once they realise that no farang would be willing to have his/her credit card photocopied, just like the requirement to go to the MFA.

The second part of the quote refers to the fact that people applying for shorter extensions will have to show a confirmed ticket (by air or overland) out of the country before the extension is granted. But don't forget this applies only to Pattaya.

[Maestro]

...From today's Pattaya Today confirming the rule changes (not online yet)...

I don't think it can get clearer than that!

Oh yes, it could get clearer, for example a piece of paper signed and dated by the chief of Jomtien immigration office with the amendment of the rule written on it. It is unlikely, however, that we shall ever see such paper, for the simple reason that he has no authority to make such amendment.

The clause “and any other document the immigration officer may ask for” is no longer in the current rules (Police Order 606/2549), and not by the longest stretch of imagination can the ownership of a credit card be considered as evidence of minimum 65,000 Baht monthly income, for which immigration has the right and obligation to ask.

Incidentally, would anybody like to guess the name of the “spokesman” whom Pattaya Today allegedly quotes?

--

Maestro

[farmerapache]

well,well,about six mounths back i was in the immigration offiche in korat and this guy told me "it's gonna be more easyer for (farang) in the future because you not gonna have to come back every tree mounths for your extention and not even for the one year visa???????

but this seems now that they wanna make it so hard on us that one day we simply have to move.

i'm married here and we have a son together (already from when we still lived in europe) but what i don't understand is that when you are married with a thai,invest 10.000.000 bath in this country,give work to thai and you take care about her family that the coverment make it so hard on you to simply living here??

or is it really all about money here,is that the only thing were it's all about,...jesus !!!

leave me alone !!!

[Jingthing]

Pattaya Today is usually wrong about these things. Do not trust Pattaya Today about the card copies. They have been totally wrong before and completely lack credibility. Wake up. We don't have real journalists in Pattaya.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[North]

It is reasonable, though, for any Thai immigration officer to request backup for self-declared pension income. The 'certification' by MFA is even more meaningless, because it can only express an opinion that the officer who certified the original self-declaration was an officer at the embassy/consulate. The MFA's certification cannot verify the pension income itself, nor can the officer at some of our embassies.

I believe this is not quite true, PeaceBlondie. At least at the danish embassy they want to see official papers from the danish government or from the pension company, where one´s pension comes from, before they will issue a statement about the yearly pension income.

By the way, yesterday I sent a mail to Pattaya City Expats Club asking them to explain the matter of copies of credit cards, but until now I did not receive an answer.

North

[Jingthing]

I wouldn't be surprised if some people are asked. For example, you use the pension to qualify and you have either no Thai bank account (do they allow that) or a small one. They may be concerned you have no source of money. They might ask you individually. However, what is the logic of asking someone with a million baht in a Thai bank? They don't need an ATM to walk into the corner bank and have access to a million baht.

Asking some individuals WITH CAUSE is not the same as a RULE CHANGE.

Edited October 31, 2007 by Jingthing

[scotsman]

The British embassy also ask for proof of pension before they issue a letter, But for the visa for married to Thai national they asked me in pattaya Immigration for a copy of my bank statement where my pension goes in every month which I supplied with my account number removed. But as you have read in my other posts I did not want to go to bangkok for a mfa stamp so I changed my visa to retirement on monday they gave me my bank statement back don"t need So it depends who you see in the immigration office at that time what they need & don"t need. or may be its only for married visa you need this I don"t know. I was also asked by one immigration officer to copy more pages from my passport but when I changed tables to another officer I was given them back don"t need But at no time was I EVER ASKED for any Atm or credit card.

[007]

From today's Pattaya Today confirming the rule changes (not online yet):

The latest changes are not in force in every immigration office, but are specific requirements at the Pattaya office. A spokesman sais, "Pattaya has an unusually large number of foreigners on its books and these amendments are designed to provide evidence of good intention on their part...

Right, more foreigners in Pattaya than in Nakhon Nowhere?

Wasn't Pattaya promoted as a holiday destination to foreign tourists in the past?

[longball53098]

I have just looked at the Pattaya website

The article reads>

Applicants for one year retirement visas must now show and make copies of the back and front of any one currently valid ATM or credit card issued in their name. The copies must be signed by the applicant. It does not matter whether the card was issued in Thailand or overseas.

The OP missed the word "one" - The OP reads as if ALL Cards are required

I just visited the Pattaya Immigration website and looked at several places about documentation required. I see nothing that indicates ATM or CC requirements for anything,,,,,,,,nothing,,,,,,,,,,NADA

Just a few minutes more and I read the reported story in the Pattaya Today online,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,It was their lead story on the front page,,,,,,,,,,,,clearly meant to sell papers.

I see nothing in the report that gives the name or names of any Immigration Officer backing up this "report". I don't know who the reported sources are that started this but clearly the paper is not in position to bring Immigration into it. Unless they can back up these claims with facts its just another "story"

Edited November 1, 2007 by longball53098

[pontious]

The Immigration site says nothing about going to BKK for the MFA stamp but two TV members had to get them!

Edited November 1, 2007 by pontious

[tomfin]

Pattaya Today and Barry Kenyon - same-same.

[Jingthing]

Pattaya Today is shameless. Very bad track record on reporting these kinds of issues. And they have the nerve to trash thaivisa forum there, when the info here is much better and current.

[longball53098]

Pattaya Today is shameless. Very bad track record on reporting these kinds of issues. And they have the nerve to trash thaivisa forum there, when the info here is much better and current.

Just to add more fuel on this ever burning fire,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I went to Jomtein Immigration this afternoon for my 90 day report,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I had an idea to ask someone that just completed their visa extension,,,,,,,,,,,,,so within a few minutes a man and his Thai wife came out and I begged their pardon and asked how things went at the desk and if the process and paperwork was different today than any other time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,???? The nice German man and his wife answered all my questions and as I would expect nothing had changed for him from last year ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,then I specifically asked if anything was asked of them about copies of ATM or credit cards?? You should have seen the look of shock!!!!!!!!!!! On their faces,,,,,,,,,,,,,NO NO NO was the clear answer only the normal bank paperwork and the income letter,,,,,,,,,,,,I never asked about any MFA stamp,,,,,,,,,,,,this is not why I was asking questions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so in my unofficial one person survey,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,no changes.

[Jingthing]

Mirrors my very recent experience there for a retire extension. Easy, no changes.

Pattaya Today just trying to sell papers.

Edited November 1, 2007 by Jingthing

[JetsetBkk]

Mirrors my very recent experience there for a retire extension. Easy, no changes.

Pattaya Today just trying to sell papers.

Maybe the extra long low season is affecting their sales this year.

[Guderian]

...they asked me in pattaya Immigration for a copy of my bank statement where my pension goes in every month which I supplied with my account number removed.

That's an interesting point from Scotsman. We have to give copies of the bank account pass book to the Immigration Police, but how many people remove the account number from the copies? How would you do this? Tipp-ex, i.e. liquid paper? Will they accept copies defaced in that way? Would it make any difference, since I assume that the supporting letter from the bank (which you have to have) also gives your account number? Of course, they have copies of our signatures a million times over. Never mind the plastic, none of this sounds very secure to me.

[Jingthing]

Guderian, I can't see the point in removing the account number if they have it anyway from the letter. Also, I have never heard of anyone accusing immigration of draining their Thai bank account; so I would worry about other things, like how come beer makes you fat?

[Guderian]

Guderian, I can't see the point in removing the account number if they have it anyway from the letter. Also, I have never heard of anyone accusing immigration of draining their Thai bank account; so I would worry about other things, like how come beer makes you fat?

Jingthing,

No slimline tonic here - so not only beer but also G&T makes me fat! Life is harsh .

But even if all they wanted was a copy of your Thai ATM debit card (which was how I read the Pattaya Today article, it seemed to me that they were not asking for copies of foreign credit cards), would that be a problem if we give the Immigration Police the benefit of the doubt, as you suggest (and I don't disagree with you)? They know your account number from the passbook copies, but don't know your PIN. So since we evidently "trust" the Immigration lads and lasses, as long as these hypothetical new rules are restriced to a copy of the local bank debit card, I don't see a problem.

Of course, we should not go spontaneously offering this stuff to them, but in the case that it does become the rule, then perhaps it isn't such a big deal?

Just thinking aloud. Off for another Bombay Sapphire and tonic now, and another 1mm on my waistline no doubt !

Cheers.

[longball53098]

Guderian, I can't see the point in removing the account number if they have it anyway from the letter. Also, I have never heard of anyone accusing immigration of draining their Thai bank account; so I would worry about other things, like how come beer makes you fat?

Jingthing,

No slimline tonic here - so not only beer but also G&T makes me fat! Life is harsh .

But even if all they wanted was a copy of your Thai ATM debit card (which was how I read the Pattaya Today article, it seemed to me that they were not asking for copies of foreign credit cards), would that be a problem if we give the Immigration Police the benefit of the doubt, as you suggest (and I don't disagree with you)? They know your account number from the passbook copies, but don't know your PIN. So since we evidently "trust" the Immigration lads and lasses, as long as these hypothetical new rules are restriced to a copy of the local bank debit card, I don't see a problem.

Of course, we should not go spontaneously offering this stuff to them, but in the case that it does become the rule, then perhaps it isn't such a big deal?

Just thinking aloud. Off for another Bombay Sapphire and tonic now, and another 1mm on my waistline no doubt !

Cheers.

I guess I read the Pattaya report a little different,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I see Credit Card or ATM card,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it goes on to say with any bank they are in good standing .

Here is a cut from the report:

[Mobi]

ATM cards frequently double up as Visa Electron Cards. My K bank ATM cards do, and I have used them on occasion for purchases. So it would be possible for them to be fraudulently copied and used.

Excuse me if this has been mentioned already, but I know for a fact that some retirees "borrow" part or all of the 800K from certain businessmen for the purposes of renewing their visas. (For a hefty consideration). In these cases, I believe that the retiree has an account in his name, but does not have an ATM card, and the pass book is only handed to him when he visits immigration. Is it this sort of thing they are trying to stop?

It does seem rather strange for such a story to be published without any factual basis - even by Pattaya Today.

Let's see what happens

[Guderian]

I guess I read the Pattaya report a little different,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I see Credit Card or ATM card,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and it goes on to say with any bank they are in good standing .

Note the word OR between "ATM" and "credit card". This is what I was getting at. If this was to become the case – and I hope that it won't – it means that you only have to show a Thai ATM card OR your overseas credit card. So no problems, as long as you have a kosher Thai bank account. Or am I reading that wrong?

Regards.

[scotsman]

...they asked me in pattaya Immigration for a copy of my bank statement where my pension goes in every month which I supplied with my account number removed.

That's an interesting point from Scotsman. We have to give copies of the bank account pass book to the Immigration Police, but how many people remove the account number from the copies? How would you do this? Tipp-ex, i.e. liquid paper? Will they accept copies defaced in that way? Would it make any difference, since I assume that the supporting letter from the bank (which you have to have) also gives your account number? Of course, they have copies of our signatures a million times over. Never mind the plastic, none of this sounds very secure to me.

I have just looked at my copy of my letter from the British Embassy and there is nothing in it about my bank accounts. It just tells them my monthly pension. I was asked to produce a copy of my uk bank account from the internet to show my monthly pension but I removed my account no with a ink pen and white tippex. I also had to show my Thai bank account with account number but as there is never that much money in there most of the time and they don"t have your pin number it was ok for me.

[Guest #1man]

ATM cards frequently double up as Visa Electron Cards. My K bank ATM cards do, and I have used them on occasion for purchases. So it would be possible for them to be fraudulently copied and used.

Excuse me if this has been mentioned already, but I know for a fact that some retirees "borrow" part or all of the 800K from certain businessmen for the purposes of renewing their visas. (For a hefty consideration). In these cases, I believe that the retiree has an account in his name, but does not have an ATM card, and the pass book is only handed to him when he visits immigration. Is it this sort of thing they are trying to stop?

I don't think so. The report says they will accept a foreign credit card.

The 800k baht has to be in a thai account so immigration are not looking for a link between the two

[Jingthing]

Yawn.

This will blow over.

Has anyone here reported being asked for card copies yet?

I think not.

[Maestro]

Which honorary consul in Pattaya, according to posts in this forum, spends some time at the Jomtien immigration office most mornings? Could he be the “spokesman” referred to in the article in Pattaya Today?

Which honorary consul in Pattaya writes articles for Pattay Today? Could he be the person who wrote the article “Retirement visa new rule” published in Pattaya Today on 31 October 2007? There is no name in the bye-line of this article, only “Posted by Admin/ 31. October 2007, 21:14”

--

Maestro

[Jingthing]

My suggestion for the concerned, assuming you are willing to comply, is bring along a copy of one card to your appointment. Do not include it in the papers you hand the officer. Then, if for some reason you are asked for it, you have it ready. I think it is a very bad idea to start complying with a privacy compromising requirement like this without it being explicitly demanded of you personally. Again, do not believe Pattaya Today. Believe what your officer tells you because he is the rules, not Pattaya Today.