A Friends Response To The Immigration Request In Pattaya

[mikethevigoman]

This is a wind-up right?

Having a credit card is NO proof of financial security; in fact most of the credit card holders I knew in a former life were well into their credit limit. So instead of the card being a proof of affluence it was an easy way to get into debt, which is what the credit card companies really want anyway.

I don't have a credit card anymore, I found that in LOS they were not necessary and as they expired I did not bother to renew them.

Been living happily for years without them, something less to worry about.

D.D.

:-)

I agree, i thought this was an early april fool, i expect there are a lot in thailand with a card, however getting any money off it may be another matter, .. i know, i was that soldier !

[mikethevigoman]

Credit card frauds who cares? It happen me twice a year as I travel extensively, just sending an email to my bank and they credit my account with whatever is not authorized by me, and thats how the visa/mc/ae system works, why worry about something that is dumbproof? And if you are really paranoid, use a debet card, 110% dumbproof.

debit card is not as safe as credit card, for one if its a debit card you are using/having stolen your own money, i know .someone did a swipe transaction on mine for 5k US in korea, ive never been there !,,, took me a month to get it back, had that been a credit card it would have been a call to the centre and immediatly credited and investigated,. i struggled with my bank over that debit card misuse/fraud,.

[scotsman]

To get around this crazy request all you have to do is open a new bank account in Thailand with 500 baht and get a non visa logo Atm card so its only for use as a atm card and give them a copy of that. I would also say that all tv members post e-mails to there credit card banks informing them of this crazy request from immigration. Also we should all send e-mails to our embassy complaining about this new rule at pattaya immigration. I for one will never give them a copy of my credit card

[wpcoe]

On another forum where a first-hand report was posted about being required to give a photocopy of the front and back of a credit card, the poster asked the officer if it were okay for him to black out the numbers on the photocopy, and it was accepted.

If that is, in fact, acceptable to the Jomtien Immigrations officers, I would suggest making a photocopy of the front and back of the card, then blacking out the numbers (maybe leaving the last block of digits visible like on credit card receipts?) on the photocopy, and then photocopying the photocopy. It's too easy to hold up the first copy with the inked out areas to the light and see the original numbers. A photocopy of the blacked-out photocopy should be secure.

Yes, it is hoop jumping, but if it is acceptable, it is more secure.

[chicowoodduck]

Remove the CVV number from the back of the card as suggested by someone in the thread quoted above

That's the BEST advice I've seen on the board!

[johna]

What would happen if you told immigration that you did not have a credit card ?

I never use my credit card in Thailand and my bank in Europe would not give any card info to a 3rd party.

I could withdraw each month in cash all I need to cover expenses and throw away my ATM card.

So how would immigration respond in this situation.

[naka]

To get around this crazy request all you have to do is open a new bank account in Thailand with 500 baht and get a non visa logo Atm card so its only for use as a atm card and give them a copy of that. I would also say that all tv members post e-mails to there credit card banks informing them of this crazy request from immigration. Also we should all send e-mails to our embassy complaining about this new rule at pattaya immigration. I for one will never give them a copy of my credit card

This is probably the easiest way around this stupid, ignorant regulation.

Lots of posts here talk as if all plastic cards are credit cards ! It would appear

they (immigration) are not stipulating credit cards (which not everyone has) but credit, debit or

ATM cards.

Why would anyone go to BKK when they can do what the poster above has suggested, after all it

only costs Bt 200 to open the new account ?

Naka.

[innovator]

The attachment to staying here in Thailand is exactly the weak point that the Immigration officials are attacking. If one does not care, or does not have any attachments here, then their madness is irrelevant. If however, you are married with children to a Thai and bought a house/car/motorbike/land or anything else that cannot be taken overseas, then you will struggle daily with these changes that are being made to clean out the farangs.

So, the best advise is to get rid of any current attachments and scrap all future attachments in the future. Remember the key to Buddhist thinking is to let go or detach oneself of any and all material or physical possessions.

1. Place an ad to sell your new house and car

2. File for divorce

3. All future purchases should be ones that can be used in a 12 hour period of time or taken aboard an airplane.

4. If you cannot follow these steps, then be prepared to run down beach road naked while handing your bank accounts/ATM cards, gold, and all other valuables to the nearest officer at the checkpoint, just so that you can extend your Visa.

If you find yourself in a Visa pickle, then you should be asking yourself one simple question......Why stay here if you have to bend over and take it up the a**???? (Unless that is the reason why you enjoy staying here)!!!

Just a thought....

[PeaceBlondie]

In fact, even if you came here because you like to take it up the a**, you don't have to stay in Thailand! I know a poster who found a Thai on the beach naked, and then they......oh, never mind.

[luumak]

All of this may be misconstrued - perhaps Jimmy has the answer. Its not about your credit/debit cards at 'home', its about your account/s here. Perhaps this is a way to 'certify' any number of things from Thai income tax to illegal business activity. I simply do not know and I for one will not lose any sleep over it nor am I interested in fighting the battle for the "O visa types". Another TV thread run amok perhaps.

I am happily, a runner. No house, no marriage, no motor vehicle, I guess I always saw/felt I was/am nothing more than a tourist/guest. Glad I never: bought that condo, joined that country club, joined that gym, bought that motorcycle, etc...

>> See how it goes round 'retirees'? It appears to be your turn now. Now why would the runners care about your lot after disabusing them on TV for years. It's as clear as yesterday, you dont like it? Telling everyone (hah-hah) bye-bye.

So this latest round on nonsense is hilarious on two ends. Maybe even more so on the whingers who will in the end, comply. You will stay, no matter what. 1.5mil in the bank, forced marriage to persons unknown, buy a condo, whatever.

It would be nice to see some O-Visa Retiree Type, sometime on this site put their money where their mouth is (start a petition for clear/stable rules (start a petition dont buy-fly Thai), contact all western embassies for support, organize a boycott(s) >> Thai wives (not kids), ThaiAir, newspapers, large hotels, any business obviously 'Thai(/Chinese)' owned. All condo/housing projects (dont buy or rent) or heres a zany notion, leave for a year - yes, you!

Certainly pull out any/all investments and with the business law being reviewed, it may be a great time to do so.

Put yourself back to TRs status and make the runs and a bunch of visas and let the consulates, embassies and checkpoints deal with the overload and lack of cash they could have made on the O.

Heres the clue folks: Thailand always was about looking down upon us despite our wealth and education - "why bother visiting, just send us your money ". Thailand has opened its doors to the Middle East, India and China. Now, with the new wealth in China/ME/S Asia they dont need you(r money). So suck it up, more to come becasue the action is to apply enough pressure to get you to leave. Not enough this year? More BS to come the following. Who will break first? Its not even a contest.

Its already such a total joke. The way the financial requirements read Thailand believes that you and Mrs. Thai-Farang only need B200K each to live on (400K). But the requirement for single is 300% of that of a married.

Like I said - they will ask, you will comply. A servile lot indeed.

Edited November 8, 2007 by luumak

[pattyboy]

Can I safely assume that this requirement to provide credit card information is for RETIREMENT (O) visas but not for business (non-Imm ? I must admit that I haven't read everything that has been posted in this thread, but by glancing through it I haven't seen anything that answers this question. To me, it just doesn't make sense to need this information for someone who is allowed to do business (i.e. work). It only makes sense for those wishing to retire, perhaps to ensure they have some general and emergency funds available.

[Pattaya46]

Can I safely assume that this requirement to provide credit card information is for RETIREMENT (O) visas but not for business (non-Imm B )?

The article only mentioned Retirement Visa :

/forum/index.php?sh...t&p=1628121

It also mentioned

a current credit or ATM card in their own name

Could be a problem with ATM card of Thai banks that do not have owner name graved on.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Pattaya46

[scotsman]

I sent a e-mail to my credit card bank with this information and I have been told if I think my credit card details will not be safe there recommendation is not to give it. I also sent a e-mail to my embassy they have sent me a reply that they will bring this matter up with the Thai authorities but the information they have is that they want to see if we are in good standing with our banks How will a empty ATM bank account show this Because thats all they will get from me

[monty]

My bkk bank atm card has my name on, printed, not embossed though...

Not sure it still is possible now, but my wife's b1st card from the bkk bank (couple years old) even has her picture on it!

[lopburi3]

Do you have the standard blue Bangkok Bank ATM card (Bualuang Card)? Mine has no name at all and signature after 10-15 years is unreadable but the card still works.

[soundman]

What if you are among the small bunch of people, like myself, who don't believe in credit cards. I haven't had a credit card in fifteen years. No need for one.

Does this mean a person without a credit card will be refused a one year extension, even if they pass all other criteria?

Soundman.

[wpcoe]

Can I safely assume that this requirement to provide credit card information is for RETIREMENT (O) visas but not for business (non-Imm ?

No, you cannot safely assume anything of the nature. e.g. from Post #29:

When I applied here in Pattaya for a one year extension of my Non "o" based on marriage a copy of my ATM card was requested, was pretty shocked they actually wanted this.

A firsthand report that this is already spilling out of the retirement extension category. Brace yourself.

[monty]

Do you have the standard blue Bangkok Bank ATM card (Bualuang Card)? Mine has no name at all and signature after 10-15 years is unreadable but the card still works.

Not the standard bualuang card but the be1st visa electron atm card. Costed I think 200 Baht more then the normal card, actually took it because you can use it at any visa network connected atm worldwide... Everybody can get one, they asked me when I opened my account and just chose the most expensive

[Guest mascot]

I renewed my retirement extension last week in BKK using the pension method, all that was requiered was the Aust embassy declaration and copy of pension letter. Nothing else.

I believe this is a floater, all you have to do is ask for the requirement in writing and or get the officers name and number and make it clear it will be reported to the card company, somehow I think the demand might suddenly not be a requirement. If this demand was ever made why did the applicant not complain to higher position like the officer who vets the application????

[monty]

I renewed my retirement extension last week in BKK

It is only in Pattaya that they require this new things! See topic title...

[tgeezer]

I renewed my retirement extension last week in BKK using the pension method, all that was requiered was the Aust embassy declaration and copy of pension letter. Nothing else.

I believe this is a floater, all you have to do is ask for the requirement in writing and or get the officers name and number and make it clear it will be reported to the card company, somehow I think the demand might suddenly not be a requirement. If this demand was ever made why did the applicant not complain to higher position like the officer who vets the application????

The other method is to put 800,000 Bt in a bank account, use it, top it up three months before you re-apply and show the proof in the form of a bank letter stating the balance and an up-to-date book, with copy. What is difficult about that? Can anyone think of a reason why they should want an ATM in Pattaya and not in Bangkok? I suspect that some people who have been bending the rules for years resulting in more and more restrictions have now reached the magic age of fifty and are still bending the rules, or trying to.

[Jingthing]

I asked this before but have not received an answer.

Would they accept a Thai ATM card with your signature and no name printed on it?

I would rather give that than a US credit card.

[VBF]

I asked this before but have not received an answer.

Would they accept a Thai ATM card with your signature and no name printed on it?

I would rather give that than a US credit card.

This has been touched on before in this thread, but consider the following scenario:

You wire transfer more than 800,000 Baht from OUTSIDE Thailand to a Thai bank - no need for credit card and in keeping with the rules.

You then use that money to live on, keeping 800,000 of it in the bank for 3 months until you need to visit Immigration - no need for credit card, just ATM card and in keeping with the rules.

Visit Immigration, with copy of "Thai ATM card with your signature and no name printed on it" and inform Immigration that that is your only plastic.

So you've got no Credit cards, just an anonymous ATM card but have complied with all the rules.

Or am I missing something?

[North]

Look here at this thread post # 164, folks:

Pattaya immigration new visa rules change

north

[jeepholt]

To save the trouble of linking to the other thread, here is what Surftrader's post says:

SurfTrader

View Member Profile

Add as Friend

Send Message

Find Member's Topics

Find Member's Posts Today, 2007-11-08 20:50:07 Post #164

Newbie

Group: Members

Posts: 7

Joined: 2007-10-22

Member No.: 53,404

For whatever it's worth, I contacted American Citizen Services at the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok for their comment on the recently established practice of Pattaya Immigration requiring a copy of the front and back of a valid Credit Card when a Retiree renews a Retirement Visa.

My concern is that divulging this information lays the person open to possible Identity Theft and Credit Card Fraud, since various employees, non-employees, family members, couriers, etc. could gain access to this data and use it for nefarious purposes.

If my understanding of the reports that I've read & heard about this practice from people who have been through it so far at Pattaya Immigration is correct, it does not mesh with the story that Pattaya Immigration gave to Bangkok-ACS. I have indicated what I believe to be the suspicious information.

The response from Bangkok-ACS appears below.

Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 15:32:33 +0700

From: Bangkok ACS

Subject: RE: New Questionable Immigration Practice

Sir,

We have contacted the Thai Immigration Bureau head office on Soi Suan Plu, where an immigration officer informed us that her office does not require retirees to submit a copy of their credit card. Applicants will need to show a bank statement or a bank book for an account that contains funds that suffice according to their regulations.

Pattaya Immigration informed us that they will ask for a copy of a credit card only for a case in which the applicant cannot provide a bank statement showing monthly income or a bank book that has enough funds. In this case, the applicant can give a copy of a credit card as a proof of their financial status. The officer suggested that the applicant should cross off any information that they think is crucial for fraud protection, i.e. 3 security digits and signature at the back of the card.

Therefore, retirement visa applicants should prepare their bank statement before going to renew their visa. If they can't, they should cross off important information on the copy of their credit card. Another alternative is to come to Bangkok to renew the retirement visa.

Regards,

American Citizen Services

[wpcoe]

When I applied here in Pattaya for a one year extension of my Non "o" based on marriage a copy of my ATM card was requested, was pretty shocked they actually wanted this.

In light of the explanation provided to the ACS by Pattaya Immigrations (quoted below), would you be willing to say that you were asked for a copy of your ATM card only because you had inadequate financial records? You said you were "pretty shocked they actually wanted this," so my hunch is you actually did have your documentation in order. Sorry to ask such a personal question, and if you choose not to answer, I understand.

Pattaya Immigration informed us that they will ask for a copy of a credit card only for a case in which the applicant cannot provide a bank statement showing monthly income or a bank book that has enough funds. In this case, the applicant can give a copy of a credit card as a proof of their financial status. The officer suggested that the applicant should cross off any information that they think is crucial for fraud protection, i.e. 3 security digits and signature at the back of the card.

[wpcoe]

With permission from the original poster on another forum, I am quoting his November 2 experience at Jomtien Immigrations:

Today, I went to renew my retirement visa. I also had my retirement visa transfered to my new passport. No problem at all. I just presented my pension letter from the US embassy, a letter from the bank saying I had an account, and the TM 7 form. However, they DID ask for a copy of my ATM card front and back. This was different than what they told me I needed a few days ago. I told them I was not comfortable giving a card with all the numbers. I asked if I could cross out some numbers. They said "up to you". So I went outside and made a copy of the front and back and took a pen and blocked the 3digit security code AND the last 2 numbers of the account number from the front and back. I took the copy back in and they said "ok". I then waited for all the different stamps they placed in the old and then the new passport. No problems. I did not need the pension letter stamped by the foreign ministry. the whole process at immigation including waiting for my number to be called was 40 minutes.

To be crystal clear about his experience, I asked:

I'm making the assumption that you DID have sufficient income/savings to qualify for the retirement extension, with adequate documentation via the pension letter and bank letter, and that they still asked for a copy of your ATM card.

And he replied:

Yes you are right I do have enough via the pension letter. The lady at immigration said they needed the copy of ATM card to prove I could get my pension money here in Thailand. I also noticed that she was helping the guy that usually takes care of those things. He never asked for it. But he seemed very busy processing Russian passports and seemed upset by his treatment of the 2 people before me. I believe he felt an American passport was easier and asked the lady from a different station to help him since I noticed she only did mine and then went back to doing something else. She really only put the papers in order and gave me a form for the transfer to the new passport, tehn passed it over to him and he just stamped all the papers. She is the one that asked for the ATM copy saying it was a new regulation.

So, there is still some unclarity, I guess. This fellow had adequate pension with appropriate documentation, but was asked still for the copy of the ATM card by someone other than the usual fellow that sits at desk #8. The plot thickens.

[Firefan]

After the last few explanations it seems as they (In Pattaya at least) request the ATM/credit card copy when one has the monthly pension letter but no obvious way to get to that pension abroad. Silly at best. I do not believe they want it with Baht 800k in a Thai account method.

Your milage will naturally vary depending on the day, the officer, the lunch they had that day and so forth.

Cheers!

[chicowoodduck]

I renewed my retirement extension last week in BKK using the pension method, all that was requiered was the Aust embassy declaration and copy of pension letter. Nothing else.

I believe this is a floater, all you have to do is ask for the requirement in writing and or get the officers name and number and make it clear it will be reported to the card company, somehow I think the demand might suddenly not be a requirement. If this demand was ever made why did the applicant not complain to higher position like the officer who vets the application????

The other method is to put 800,000 Bt in a bank account, use it, top it up three months before you re-apply and show the proof in the form of a bank letter stating the balance and an up-to-date book, with copy. What is difficult about that? Can anyone think of a reason why they should want an ATM in Pattaya and not in Bangkok? I suspect that some people who have been bending the rules for years resulting in more and more restrictions have now reached the magic age of fifty and are still bending the rules, or trying to.

I think this is the simplest method AND cuts out the "plastic card" dance.

[Jingthing]

Do they want just ONE card or do they want you to declare and copy ALL cards?