To What Degree Is Thailand Xenophobic?

[Jingthing]

The intentional of this poll is not to respond solely based on to immigration/visa policies. See the OP.

[nidge]

The intentional of this poll is not to respond solely based on to immigration/visa policies. See the OP.

Correct, it is based on everyday interactions which of course are totally personal. So anyone who voted 100% must be sure that every thai they meet hates/fears foreigners and those that have voted 0% do not during every day interactions meet a thai that hates/fears them.

I still stick with my 0%. Sorry if i amaze you. You must be easily amazed.

[camerata]

I think you'll find that Camerata was saying that that there is a hatred amongst Thai sex workers for the worst kind of foreigners.

Right. I didn't construct the sentence very well. In my experience, Thai sex workers, pimps, and others in jobs where they come in contact with drunk and/or arrogant foreigners are the ones that are most likely to have some real hatred for foreigners.

[camerata]

Complete rubbish I - being married to a thai and being responsible for the welfare and living of my wife and kids (and education) in thailand - have no right to own my own house - unless through a company formation which is illegal or at best dubious. I need to show the income of an army general to even obtain my marrage visa. If not then i am out on my ear whilst my wife and kids remain (against genevia convention rules).

And you think that is because Thais fear and hate you?

Thailand has little to fear from the small investor or the small guy taking care of his family - they should fear the multi nationals who are changing the face of thailand. Your view is nationalist and dangerous and most of all ignorant!

It's not my view, it's my guess at the Thai view based on historical facts. Unless you want to be angry the rest of your life in Thailand, you have to try and see things from the Thai point of view. My guess is that Thais want to keep what's left of Thailand for Thais. After all, they already lost large parts of what they considered to be their land or vassal states to the French and the British. It may well be national pride behind the land laws, but that doesn't mean Thais hate foreigners or are victimizing them. My own opinion is that foreigners married and settled here should be able to own enough land to build a house on.

[mrtoad]

I voted 80%, but I don't think that is anyless than the country of my origin, or other Western counitries. Look at the definition of the word xenophobic and then maybe it becomes clearer.

Edited December 25, 2007 by mrtoad

[kopite]

I voted 80%, but I don't think that is anymore than the country of my origin, or other Western counitries. Look at the definition of the word xenophobic and then maybe it becomes clearer.

people from the Uk and USA are more racist and xenophobic than thais

wake up - we have moved on !!!

old people are mad = FACT!!!

[mrtoad]

I voted 80%, but I don't think that is anymore than the country of my origin, or other Western counitries. Look at the definition of the word xenophobic and then maybe it becomes clearer.

people from the Uk and USA are more racist and xenophobic than thais

wake up - we have moved on !!!

old people are mad = FACT!!!

I think you need to look at whay my point is. No more , no less.

Edited December 25, 2007 by mrtoad

[kopite]

I voted 80%, but I don't think that is anymore than the country of my origin, or other Western counitries. Look at the definition of the word xenophobic and then maybe it becomes clearer.

people from the Uk and USA are more racist and xenophobic than thais

wake up - we have moved on !!!

old people are mad = FACT!!!

I think you need to look at whay my point is. No more , no less.

wasnt having a dig at you mr toad (never would)

just a fact that most people that call thai's racist etc......are the same ex-pats that have been givng it since enoch powell etc...

this isnt your country. its theirs. your the nigger, your the paki. get over it,

feel a ban coming on

[Jingthing]

Approach 10 random Thai people and ask them what they think of Indians.

No xenophobia, my arse!

On immigration, someone posted a recent survey showing the huge percentage of Thai people who are against foreign immigration. What do you think the ban on foreign land ownership is about exactly?

Anyway you cut it, there is lots of xenophobia here. If you don't see it, you must have good drugs.

To repeat my previous sentiment: most every country has this, to some extent or another. Thais are not saints, stop putting them on a pedestal (the bizarre amazing ZERO percent crowd).

Whether there is a small, medium, or large amount here is debatable, but ZERO percent, sorry, that is absurd.

Edited December 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[zorro1]

I think people who vote 0 percent don't really understand the meaning of the word.

A certain amount of xenophobia is part of the human condition, in everyone's genes. So you are saying Thais aren't human when you absurdly claim there is no xenophobia here.

As silly as the Iranian buffoon who says there are no homosexuals in Iran.

Some people are so black and white, it amazes me.

so far 0 % is the highest vote. I voted 0 because its what i have personally experienced. Homos in Iran? <deleted>?

[ade100]

Anyway you cut it, there is lots of xenophobia here. If you don't see it, you must have good drugs.

Just good friends, good food and good wine :-)

Chin chin!

[Jingthing]

OK, I see, the zero percent people are tending to totally personalize the question, without considering more objective real world data like:

-- scientific polls of Thai public opinion

-- the Indians example

-- the land laws

-- the restrictions of citizenship applications and PR applications

Emotional and irrational response in my view, but Up2u.

Happily, most people responding are much more rational, as the vast majority have voted OVER 50 percent xenophobia factor.

Issue decided. Thailand is xenophobic. Just like every other country. Chestnut put to bed, but perhaps not as the OP intended.

Next ...

Edited December 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[ade100]

OK, I see, the zero percent people are tending to totally personalize the question, without considering more objective real world data like:

-- scientific polls of Thai public opinion

-- the Indians example

-- the land laws

-- the restrictions of citizenship applications and PR applications

Emotional and irrational response in my view, but Up2u.

Happily, most people responding are much more rational, as the vast majority have voted OVER 50 percent xenophobia factor.

Issue decided. Thailand is xenophobic. Just like every other country. Chestnut put to bed, but perhaps not as the OP intended.

Next ...

Voila

My interpretation of the OP: "Please vote your opinion not just on gov't policy but everyday interactions in both the gov't and private sectors." was a personal opinion. I don’t doubt there may be xenophobic members of Thai society, just as there are in all societies but I haven’t really seen it. I have just seen a lack of knowledge of the world outside Thailand.

[Jingthing]

A very funny interpretation of the BUBBLE BOY variety, but Up2U.

Try the Indian test and report back ... (I know you won't, you like the bubble, CHEERS)

Maybe the wacko President of Iran never met a homosexual personally, so that's why he believes there are no homosexuals in Iran (or he killed them all ...) Same bubble "logic"

Edited December 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[ade100]

A very funny interpretation of the BUBBLE BOY variety, but Up2U.

Try the Indian test and report back ... (I know you won't, you like the bubble, CHEERS)

Alright. I’ll do it. The Indian Test. But hold on this means I have to talk to complete Thai strangers, random Thais! I mean I live in this delightful little area full of highly educated, professional…well you know…and I am going to have to go and talk to the noodle seller, the tuk-tuk driver, the…well this all sounds rather unpleasant…ok I give in. You win…now where did I put my cocktail shaker…

[Jingthing]

Don't let on that you love Chicken Tikka Masala before you ask, or they may not respond "authentically".

[pointofview]

Complete rubbish I - being married to a thai and being responsible for the welfare and living of my wife and kids (and education) in thailand - have no right to own my own house - unless through a company formation which is illegal or at best dubious. I need to show the income of an army general to even obtain my marrage visa. If not then i am out on my ear whilst my wife and kids remain (against genevia convention rules).

And you think that is because Thais fear and hate you?

Thailand has little to fear from the small investor or the small guy taking care of his family - they should fear the multi nationals who are changing the face of thailand. Your view is nationalist and dangerous and most of all ignorant!

It's not my view, it's my guess at the Thai view based on historical facts. Unless you want to be angry the rest of your life in Thailand, you have to try and see things from the Thai point of view. My guess is that Thais want to keep what's left of Thailand for Thais. After all, they already lost large parts of what they considered to be their land or vassal states to the French and the British. It may well be national pride behind the land laws, but that doesn't mean Thais hate foreigners or are victimizing them. My own opinion is that foreigners married and settled here should be able to own enough land to build a house on.

I dont think thais hate ferangs - in general. As you so elequenlty state though they do fear losing land to foreigners (whats left??)

I am not angry - in stating my point of view i express what i see as being unfair. There are any amount of things that annoy me about the UK at present, but i am afraid thats not likely to change, so like so many othere millions of normal people i will get angry.

Your opinion on land ownership obviously remains just an opinion. However, i think progress has been made - as not so many years ago a thai married to a foreigner lost their right ot own land: now how xenophobic is that?

Edited December 25, 2007 by pointofview

[Jingthing]

More Thai xenophobia info. Extreme NATIONALISM as we see in Thailand always goes hand in hand with xenophobia.

Most of us here love Thailand. Friends, Thailand would not be the Thailand you love without the healthy dose of xenophobia found in Thailand, so just deal with it. Its as Thai as tom yum goong.

I voted 80 percent, but only as a relative thing comparing it to the xenophobia levels I have observed in other countries, including my own.

''It stems from the way the sense of 'Thainess' and the Thai identity has been constructed over the past century,'' David Streckfuss, a U.S. academic specialising in Thai political culture, told IPS. ''There is a certain narrowness that has the potential to erupt into xenophobia under particular conditions.''

A similar argument has been made by a Thai academic, Pavin Chachavalpongpun, in a book published late last year, 'A Plastic Nation,' about identity formation. ''Historically, the farang (foreigner) threat was ingrained into the Thai minds during the peak of Western colonisation in Asia. Today, the threat of the farang remains,'' he writes. ''Tam kon farang (worshipping foreigners or foreignness) is deemed as a crime to Thainess.''

Ironically, Thaksin was a leading exponent of such anti-foreigner sentiment when he set up his Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thai) party in 1998 and he road a wave of extreme nationalism to secure an emphatic victory at the January 2001 elections to begin his first term in office.

''Thaksin is now at the receiving end of this Thai nationalist streak after selling Shin Corp.,'' says Streckfuss. ''The Singaporeans are the unfortunate targets of this feeling that foreigners cannot protect and represent the interest

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32365

Edited December 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[ade100]

More Thai xenophobia info. Extreme NATIONALISM as we see in Thailand always goes hand in hand with xenophobia.

Most of us here love Thailand. Friends, Thailand would not be the Thailand you love without the healthy dose of xenophobia found in Thailand, so just deal with it. Its as Thai as tom yum goong.

I voted 80 percent, but only as a relative thing comparing it to the xenophobia levels I have observed in other countries, including my own.

''It stems from the way the sense of 'Thainess' and the Thai identity has been constructed over the past century,'' David Streckfuss, a U.S. academic specialising in Thai political culture, told IPS. ''There is a certain narrowness that has the potential to erupt into xenophobia under particular conditions.''

A similar argument has been made by a Thai academic, Pavin Chachavalpongpun, in a book published late last year, 'A Plastic Nation,' about identity formation. ''Historically, the farang (foreigner) threat was ingrained into the Thai minds during the peak of Western colonisation in Asia. Today, the threat of the farang remains,'' he writes. ''Tam kon farang (worshipping foreigners or foreignness) is deemed as a crime to Thainess.''

Ironically, Thaksin was a leading exponent of such anti-foreigner sentiment when he set up his Thai Rak Thai (Thais Love Thai) party in 1998 and he road a wave of extreme nationalism to secure an emphatic victory at the January 2001 elections to begin his first term in office.

''Thaksin is now at the receiving end of this Thai nationalist streak after selling Shin Corp.,'' says Streckfuss. ''The Singaporeans are the unfortunate targets of this feeling that foreigners cannot protect and represent the interest

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=32365

This is a really interesting article and I have no desire to knock it. However, some anecdotal, points: At a recent dinner party. I said that a Thai girl looked Singaporean. She beamed with delight. When my Thai GF comes to visit me in Singapore she always buys presents for her friends and family claiming that while they may not be cheaper or better quality they are from Singapore and therefore perceived as being “Hi-So”

[yorkman]

Way way back in post 3 on this thread, there was a pointer to a poll done by Gallup, a much respected PROFESSIONAL polling company, who I cannot really believe have any axe to grind about Thailand one way or another.

Just because they have done this, I would still prefer to observe the day to day undercurrents of life and I see nothing to suggest they are wrong, quite the reverse.

There have been so far diversions into what sex workers think of foreigners, a rather weak definition of xenophobia, and confusion between racism and xenophobia, although they can be closely linked.

It was said on another thread, "Thai xenophobic(sic) (which is deep and obvious to anyone paying attention)"

I would happily debate this with anybody, but as seems usual, it has descended into who can take the high ground regardless, so I can't be a***ed

Merry Xmas had by all I hope

[Jingthing]

This is a really interesting article and I have no desire to knock it. However, some anecdotal, points: At a recent dinner party. I said that a Thai girl looked Singaporean. She beamed with delight. When my Thai GF comes to visit me in Singapore she always buys presents for her friends and family claiming that while they may not be cheaper or better quality they are from Singapore and therefore perceived as being “Hi-So”

The news article was specifically related to the phase of anti-Singapore sentiment that was whipped up during the ending days of the Thaksin era. That was a very specific instance at a specific point in time, so your recent quip is irrelevant. Sounds like in that case it was taken as she looked Thai-Chinese.

Edited December 25, 2007 by Jingthing

[yorkman]

Extreme NATIONALISM as we see in Thailand always goes hand in hand with xenophobia.

I am not sure I would agree with Extreme, but a high level for certain. And they do certainly go hand in hand.

For those that disagree with xenophobia, try agreeing whether the Thai are nationalistic, and work the discussion forward, it may be a bit less taxing (Or Thaksin, what card do you think he played apart from the other populist policies?)

[kdvsn]

Extreme NATIONALISM as we see in Thailand always goes hand in hand with xenophobia.

I am not sure I would agree with Extreme, but a high level for certain. And they do certainly go hand in hand.

For those that disagree with xenophobia, try agreeing whether the Thai are nationalistic, and work the discussion forward, it may be a bit less taxing (Or Thaksin, what card do you think he played apart from the other populist policies?)

Expats in Thailand are more than a little bit prone to tribalism themselves.

[Pundi64]

I expect the poll to start with 0 % meaning not xenophobic then 10% to 100% in 10% increments.

Please vote your opinion not just on gov't policy but everyday interactions in both the gov't and private sectors.

Mods if I'm successful posting this poll, my first time messing with polls,please close the other one i started about xenophobia in TH.

As long and the money holds out, none!

Edited December 25, 2007 by Pundi64

[yorkman]

Expats in Thailand are more than a little bit prone to tribalism themselves.

Ahhhh true. But how does this add to a discussion about xenophobia in Thailand? It's an interesting point, please explain?

[pointofview]

I think Thaksin knew only to well the nationalist and xenophobic sentiment running through thai society - Thai Love Thai Party - come on if that doesnt say it all!

[yorkman]

I think Thaksin knew only to well the nationalist and xenophobic sentiment running through thai society - Thai Love Thai Party - come on if that doesnt say it all!

Correct. Of course he was popular because of this, apart from the handouts.

[farang prince]

I can truly understand and sympathize with the xenophobia some Thais feel towards foreigners. All one has to do is read some of the posts on Thai Visa to see how the attitudes of foreigners can exacerbate the fear and distrust some Thais have towards us. But those that feel that the majority of the Thai population has strong anti-foreigner attitudes, I believe, are mistaken. It certainly has not been my personal experience that this is the case.

[andy1308]

On the same subject Grant Thornton's International Business Report, published in November, showed Thailand was the only country in its entire survey that showed more businesses viewed globalization as a threat as opposed to an opportunity. I know that's not specifically about xenophobia but it shows there is a mentality towards any kind of intervention or influence from outside, and one that doesn't exist to the same degree elsewhere.

The report makes interesting reading for anyone in business or considering doing business here. (http://www.internationalbusinessreport.com/main/index1.php?page=54〈=en&id=168680&country_id=0)

[Jingthing]

Yes, Andy, that is a symptom of xenophobia. A mild case compared to Burma, but needs to be watched.