Two Tourists In Pai Shot By A Police Officer

[Gravelrash]

Personally I am horrified at A. Travelers post, not because off topic, but as it shows why the BiB believe they can do as they wish, which adds perspective to the Pai murder. Also lifting the lid puts the country in a fresh honest perspective. Better to know the reality.

[Daisy75]

I can't believe that they let things like this go on. I mean all this negative attention can't be good for them.

[farang prince]

Anything new on this case? Sabaijai, are you seeing any of the major players around town anymore?

[Arkady]

Bangkok Post carried a story today about murders of foreign tourists in recent years and included a list of murders going back to 1995. Interestingly they choose to omit any reference to the murder of Leo del Pinto and the murders of Adam Lloyd and Vanessa Arscott in Kanchanaburi. Since all three were killed by Thai policemen, one can only assume that they were worried about offending the brave boys in brown and their new masters in the PPP government.

As an aside I note that the police who investigated Yongyuth the Refrigerator Man (Yuth Duu Yen), PPP big shot and close ally of Thaksin, for electoral fraud have been reassigned to new duties in the Deep South as their fraud investigation skills in the North were found ideal for tackling Muslim insurgents in the South. There has still been no confirmation from the government that the DSI has been assigned to investigate the Pai case and the DSI has been gutted by the transfer of its head and 31 other officers who were working on Thaksin's asset concealment case. Are the officers who were working on the Pai case still there? All is silent now.

Edited March 23, 2008 by Arkady

[thaigene2]

Bangkok Post carried a story today about murders of foreign tourists in recent years and included a list of murders going back to 1995. Interestingly they choose to omit any reference to the murder of Leo del Pinto and the murders of Adam Lloyd and Vanessa Arscott in Kanchanaburi. Since all three were killed by Thai policemen, one can only assume that they were worried about offending the brave boys in brown and their new masters in the PPP government.

You're right - interesting how they missed those really glaring and very recent cases.

Or the other Canadian guy murdered by his wife (the hit man she contracted).

However at least the Post did cover the story...but I take your point, whenever it is 'sensitive' invloving powerful people like the mafiaosa Thai police, the reporters' name are ommited - in this case it just says "Post Reporters" at the byline. They also ommited to mention that a key suspect in the Chiang Mai Guest Hosue case was a Tourist Police member.

Would be good if someone writes a letter to the editor of the Post? Maybe if everyone wirtes one, and they ignore them all, we can "out" the Post right here on TV for being little chickensh+ts.

Edited March 23, 2008 by thaigene2

[sabaijai]

Anything new on this case? Sabaijai, are you seeing any of the major players around town anymore?

If anyone from DSI has been here, they were virtually invisible.

One small detail, a foreign resident here who took snapshots of Carly wearing face paint the day of the shooting says Carly recently contacted him to ask that he destroy the photos.

Other than that, I've heard nothing new.

[grapetable]

Do off-duty Thai police usually carry their gun?

[Shah Jahan]

Do off-duty Thai police usually carry their gun?

only when drinking

[sriracha john]

Anything new on this case?

Here's something that has just been put out...

Alleged killer faces new Thai probe

The Thai police officer charged with murdering Leo Del Pinto could still face further charges, something the slain man's parents would like to see.

"It would help with the healing process," Leo's father, Ernie said from the family's northwest home.

"Once this is all said and done and this man is put away, I think that will help my family a great deal."

The investigation into Del Pinto's murder earlier this year has been completed by that Thailand's Department of Special Investigation -- their equivalent to the FBI -- and has now been forwarded to National Counter Corruption Committee (NCCC) for further review.

The NCCC gets involved when police officers or government officials are charged with serious crimes.

Del Pinto, 25, was shot twice from point-blank range, once in the stomach and once in the face, in the town of Pai on Jan. 8.

Del Pinto's travel companion, Carly Reisig was shot once in the chest, but survived and is now back in Canada.

Thai police officer Sgt. Uthai Dechawiwat was charged with first-degree murder and attempted murder soon after the attack. He pleaded not guilty and was later released on bail, and has reportedly returned to duty while awaiting trial.

The NCCC investigation should take about two months to complete, said Del Pinto, and a trial is expected to begin within six months.

When it does, Del Pinto pledged he and Leo's mother, Carla, will be in a Thai courtroom to see justice carried out.

"I can't wait to see his face when he sees us sitting there," he said.

Knowing their son's accused killer is walking free is infuriating for Del Pinto.

"Here in this country, if something like this happens, they're incarcerated," he said.

"This man should be behind bars waiting for his trial to come up, not be on the job and working."

Del Pinto said they have stayed in close contact with both Thai and Canadian officials through their Calgary-based lawyer.

- Calgary Sun / 2008-03-31

[geriatrickid]

"Here in this country, if something like this happens, they're incarcerated," he said.

- Calgary Sun / 2008-03-31

Not exactly. Bail is relatively easy to obtain in Canada and many other western nations, even for those accused of murder. Maybe the accused shouldn't be out on bail, but that's not an issue specific to Thailand. Plenty of examples involving people that brutalize women or that kill cops being released; Here's a recent few from Canada;

1. Peter Rakobowchuk Canadian Press Apr 24, 2007Montreal - A Quebec judge granted bail to the 41-year-old man that is the alleged cop killer. 2. Murder case suspect gets bail -Terms include a curfew and $100,000 surety Kim Bolan, Vancouver SunPublished: Wednesday, April 04, 2007

3. A man charged as an accessory to murder in the shooting death in Hay River, N.W.T, of RCMP Constable Christopher Worden, has been set free on bail.CanWest NewsService Published:Tuesday, December 18, 2007 EDMONTON -

4. Man arrested for vicious murder was out on bail Jan. 25 2008 9:05 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff

Need more examples? Here's the UK courtesy of the BBC Sunday, 24 February 2008 A Ministry of Justice survey has found that 60 of 455 defendants charged with murder were released on bail. It follows the outcry over ex-policeman Gary Weddell, a suspected murderer who allegedly killed again while on bail. Only six out of 41 people charged with manslaughter were held in custody, the snapshot survey also showed

It happens in Australia too., AAP -6/03/2008 -A man has been bailed on a charge of murdering a Sydney home owner he had wrongly accused of ignoring watering restrictions.I n the NSW Supreme Court on Thursday, Justice Peter Hidden granted $80,000 bail to Todd Munter, 37, of Caringbah, in Sydney's south. Munter is accused of punching 66-year-old Ken Proctor in the face as he was watering his lawn at Sylvania last October, at a time when he was legally entitled to do so.

This doesn't take away from the merits of the case. Rather it illustrates that the alleged killer being out on bail is not specific to Thailand nor does it demonstrate a specific bias in the accused's favour.

[Arkady]

Do off-duty Thai police usually carry their gun?

only when drinking

This question was debated at length earlier in the thread. My understanding is that they need a license to carry a gun off duty, out of uniform and these are usually only issued in the case of junior cops to those that have a specific need e.g. plain clothes detectives, drug squad, VIP protection units etc. Nevertheless the fact is that most police carry guns off duty and so do many soldiers. Occasionally police and military are charged illegal possession of guns and ammunition in public after shootings, which strongly suggests they have no blanket authorization.

[farang prince]

Anything new in this case?

[sonnyJ]

Anything new in this case?

[grantbkk]

Anything new in this case?

Well sonnyJ your concise report of the new developments on this case clear up a lot of questions I had. Thanks.

[Boji]

FYI - maybe you have seen this already..........

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/04/11/thai-pm-orders-investigation-into-tourist-killings-april-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

..........good thing.

The officer in question can sometimes still be seen on the streets of Pai, still drunk and still carrying a gun. He very recently said to a friend of mine 'Either I take your passport or you let me take your girlfriend home'. His gun was seen at his waist at the time. Apparently he also threatened to shoot someone the same evening in a separate conversation.

When the tourist police were told the reply was something along the lines of 'Well, we don't want to make a problem'.

Amazing.

[Tony Clifton]

Great police force isn't it?

[MustaphaMond]

Would be good if someone writes a letter to the editor of the Post? Maybe if everyone wirtes one, and they ignore them all, we can "out" the Post right here on TV for being little chickensh+ts.

Not naming reporters is called pragmatism. It makes it easier to keep the reporters for a while so as not to find them incessantly assassinated.

Only in countries under some semblance of law will you find names under expose's.

Terrifying Thailand

[pliny]

FYI - maybe you have seen this already..........

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/04/11/thai-pm-orders-investigation-into-tourist-killings-april-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008....pril-10-2008/

..........good thing.

The officer in question can sometimes still be seen on the streets of Pai, still drunk and still carrying a gun. He very recently said to a friend of mine 'Either I take your passport or you let me take your girlfriend home'. His gun was seen at his waist at the time. Apparently he also threatened to shoot someone the same evening in a separate conversation.

When the tourist police were told the reply was something along the lines of 'Well, we don't want to make a problem'.

Amazing.

Very worrying insight into the reality of the abuse of power so insidious in Thailand and how it could impinge upon naive tourists who believe the blandishments from vested interests that the country and its scenic spots are entirely safe.

Evidently, the wretch still considers himself to be inviolate. I wonder why that is?

[slapout]

The police force of Thailand seem to report to the Minister of Interior, who seems to be having good luck in getting his sons back in good standing with the various Thai officials. Why would you not expect the same thing for this type of incident? The behavior of all of the little (wretches) seem to follow a similiar pattern. My solution to the problem (wretches) would probably not be well recieved by many reading this.

[Loaded]

The police force of Thailand seem to report to the Minister of Interior, who seems to be having good luck in getting his sons back in good standing with the various Thai officials. Why would you not expect the same thing for this type of incident? The behavior of all of the little (wretches) seem to follow a similiar pattern. My solution to the problem (wretches) would probably not be well recieved by many reading this.

The current Thai Interior Minister has an official and unofficial past. The unofficial past involved extorting money from large Thai corporations late 80s and early 90s for the police generals. His work involved family members of Thai directors having 'accidents' until they were 'protected'. He had to skip the country in the early 90s and couldn't return until those 'misunderstandings' were resolved. His sons are similar to him but without the cunning brain. There are also rumours that much of the illegal betting that goes on in Bangkok is 'supervised' by him. Hence one of the knives in the back of the anti-gambling policeman Seripisut. We can all sleep well at night because the fox is in charge of the chicken run!

[Arkady]

The police force of Thailand seem to report to the Minister of Interior, who seems to be having good luck in getting his sons back in good standing with the various Thai officials. Why would you not expect the same thing for this type of incident? The behavior of all of the little (wretches) seem to follow a similiar pattern. My solution to the problem (wretches) would probably not be well recieved by many reading this.

The current Thai Interior Minister has an official and unofficial past. The unofficial past involved extorting money from large Thai corporations late 80s and early 90s for the police generals. His work involved family members of Thai directors having 'accidents' until they were 'protected'. He had to skip the country in the early 90s and couldn't return until those 'misunderstandings' were resolved. His sons are similar to him but without the cunning brain. There are also rumours that much of the illegal betting that goes on in Bangkok is 'supervised' by him. Hence one of the knives in the back of the anti-gambling policeman Seripisut. We can all sleep well at night because the fox is in charge of the chicken run!

The gentleman in question had to flee the country after the 1991 coup because he had seriously upset the coup makers. He was allowed back while the generals were still power on condition that he publicly grovelled to them and perhaps also make things up to them behind the scenes. He spent his time abroad in Denmark where, as a Thai monoglot, he had extreme difficulties getting along with the local people. Some allege that he is the kingpin behind the illegal betting on boxing but who knows. Realistically the hope of any type of police reform was set back after the democratic backlash that was borne out of the 1991 coup floundered due to the 1997 economic crisis. Thaksin moved into the vacuum and the results are what we see today.

[live]

too sad i dont like thai police

[thaigene2]

I've been on the road up and down country this week. The Thai police have been really out in force stopping everyone - dangerous roadblocks on main highways and the lot..prying their shitty little 200 baht out of everyone they can (into the pocket - with book in hand to make it look legit). I was stopped twice in one day - but managed my way out of it since I didn't do anything wrong in first place (I notice the Traffic Police in Bangkok and surrounding Provinces and then the Highway Police elsewhere - major pressence). Anyone else notice? Or you think this normal? I don't..Maybe the "new" Interior Minister making sure he gets 'some'?

[geriatrickid]

...and your wife in jail.......

LaoPo

Unless of course her mom is a former beauty queen, Mr. Clifton is wealthy and well connected, she was in a mercedes, she pleaded temporary insanity and then quickly made for a wat for redemption. Uttering empty platitudes might defer charges being pressed.. ..

[Shah Jahan]

FYI - maybe you have seen this already..........

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/04/11/thai-pm-orders-investigation-into-tourist-killings-april-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

..........good thing.

The officer in question can sometimes still be seen on the streets of Pai, still drunk and still carrying a gun. He very recently said to a friend of mine 'Either I take your passport or you let me take your girlfriend home'. His gun was seen at his waist at the time. Apparently he also threatened to shoot someone the same evening in a separate conversation.

When the tourist police were told the reply was something along the lines of 'Well, we don't want to make a problem'.

Amazing.

I can confirm this story from a direct observer

The police officer in question showed up drunk at Be-bop last week with 2 guns strapped under his jacket. he then approached a Thai woman from Bangkok who arrived with a Falang tourist and began talking to her - apparently he knew her or her family or something.

He then went to the falang and told him that he has the choice of giving him his passport and being taken to the police station for arrest or he lets the officer go home with his girlfriend.

the falang in question just stood their speechless. the girl then berated the officer publicly and he left. Later that night the same officer was seen at the bamboo bar in plain clothes very drunk and brandishing his pistols.

Great job Pai Police force.

[slapout]

Next thing some cowboy wannabe will walk down main street of Pai with a sawed-off 12 gauge under his long (ankle length) windbreaker. Hope he has 00 buckshot and can get within 40 meters of Uthai. Where are the good guys when they are needed?

[Foggy Bottom]

FYI - maybe you have seen this already..........

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/04/11/thai-pm-orders-investigation-into-tourist-killings-april-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

..........good thing.

The officer in question can sometimes still be seen on the streets of Pai, still drunk and still carrying a gun. He very recently said to a friend of mine 'Either I take your passport or you let me take your girlfriend home'. His gun was seen at his waist at the time. Apparently he also threatened to shoot someone the same evening in a separate conversation.

When the tourist police were told the reply was something along the lines of 'Well, we don't want to make a problem'.

Amazing.

I can confirm this story from a direct observer

The police officer in question showed up drunk at Be-bop last week with 2 guns strapped under his jacket. he then approached a Thai woman from Bangkok who arrived with a Falang tourist and began talking to her - apparently he knew her or her family or something.

He then went to the falang and told him that he has the choice of giving him his passport and being taken to the police station for arrest or he lets the officer go home with his girlfriend.

the falang in question just stood their speechless. the girl then berated the officer publicly and he left. Later that night the same officer was seen at the bamboo bar in plain clothes very drunk and brandishing his pistols.

Great job Pai Police force.

Whilst I cannot authoritatively speak for Andrew Drummond, I would hazard a guess that he would be very enamoured with finding someone captured such instances on video (either using a digicam or their mobile phone camera).

My guess would also be that AD would know to whom copies of the video should be passed, both to assist the current court case, and to run an expose on Thai TV and shame the government into locking Sgt Uthai in his own cells until the trial is complete (at least).

Gaz

[Flatouthruthefog]

FYI - maybe you have seen this already..........

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/04/11/thai-pm-orders-investigation-into-tourist-killings-april-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008...pril-10-2008/

://http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008....pril-10-2008/

..........good thing.

The officer in question can sometimes still be seen on the streets of Pai, still drunk and still carrying a gun. He very recently said to a friend of mine 'Either I take your passport or you let me take your girlfriend home'. His gun was seen at his waist at the time. Apparently he also threatened to shoot someone the same evening in a separate conversation.

When the tourist police were told the reply was something along the lines of 'Well, we don't want to make a problem'.

Amazing.

I can confirm this story from a direct observer

The police officer in question showed up drunk at Be-bop last week with 2 guns strapped under his jacket. he then approached a Thai woman from Bangkok who arrived with a Falang tourist and began talking to her - apparently he knew her or her family or something.

He then went to the falang and told him that he has the choice of giving him his passport and being taken to the police station for arrest or he lets the officer go home with his girlfriend.

the falang in question just stood their speechless. the girl then berated the officer publicly and he left. Later that night the same officer was seen at the bamboo bar in plain clothes very drunk and brandishing his pistols.

Great job Pai Police force.

So Pai and it's innocent (mainly, maybe) tourists is just awaiting another tragedy, yes? So A.Drummond Esq had better show responsibility and put out another story fast, warning the world away from Pai until this moron is locked safely away.

Anyone in Pai who cares, Thai or foreigner, should also insist to all in authority that this is done. Pronto.

If it's not, then my only observation can be - get out of Dodge! YOU could be next!!

[photojourn]

>>So A.Drummond Esq had better show responsibility and put out another story fast<<

***flame removed***sbk

What responsibility has Andrew Drummond got? To who?

He's a journalist the same as me. Are you the one who's going to stand in front of and take photo's and video of a drunk and armed (if these claims are true) Pol Sgt Unthai ?

Hey, I'm happy to come up to Pai and write the story. You can take the photo's and video.

Andrew or I can write all the stories we like. But someone has to give a dam_n and want to (1) pay for them and (2) publish them.

It's a big story **in Pai**

As other people have pointed out. It's not uncommon for people charged with murder to be out on bail.

And everyone writing with such venom on this thread about the Thai police and Pol Sgt Unthai are conveniently overlooking the three New York detectives cleared this week of shooting and killing a man with 50 shots on his wedding day in November 2006.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/am...oom-815870.html

The one's who should be applying pressure on the Thai government are the Canadian Foreign Ministry.

I've already done one wild goose chase to get photo's of a supposedly armed and drunk Pol Sgt Unthai based on "credible reports" from people on this forum only to find it was a load of &lt;deleted&gt;.

The maxim is, believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

[jackspratt]

And everyone writing with such venom on this thread about the Thai police and Pol Sgt Unthai are conveniently overlooking the three New York detectives cleared this week of shooting and killing a man with 50 shots on his wedding day in November 2006.

Writing without any venom, &lt;deleted&gt; has one apparent injustice in the US got to do with a looming further potential injustice in NW Thailand?

Can you please name which publications you write for, so I can make a point of avoiding them.