Australian Aged Pension

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/10/2023 at 12:46 PM, scorecard said:

My googling also shows that C'link has NOT been privatised, and C'link and Services Australia both exist and both are 'owned / operated' by the commonwealth gov't and they share companion / coordinate various services to the public.

 

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What has Centerlink being privatized or not have to do with this issue?  The government doesn't care, nor does a big company. 

 

The government was the one that gave us Robodebt.   

[Fat is a type of crazy]

  On 2/11/2023 at 1:22 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Why do you say that?  Do you have a link to any legal precedent, or test case?

 

You may wish to read these links.  Just two of many articles about it.

 

https://www.thesenior.com.au/story/5573886/centrelink-privatisation-warning-as-private-firms-win-more-call-centre-jobs/

 

https://thesocialist.org.au/centrelink-being-privatised-by-stealth/

 

Everything has gone up by a considerable percentage, but wages and pensions etc have not gone up by the same percentage, thus, people are falling behind.

 

In order to survive, people take a cut in their lifestyle. 

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Tax on pensions for overseas residents

I am a current public servant in a large department who keeps up with a fair bit of what's happening. In the current environment I see no likelihood of such a move. Especially under labour. It would not be likely to be politically palatable based on the fairness factor - can you imagine all the different ethnic groups pushing back. There may be the odd paper looking at options and you are correct that I have no knowledge to say it definitively won't happen. 

Privatisation

Your articles are a bit old from five years ago. Some jobs may have been contracted out here and there but total control is of course with the government. When it does happen it is bad for workers as they don't get the same conditions as other public servants but generally not a big issue I should think for pensioners. Labour's policy is to reverse what the Coalition is doing e.g. more full time APS staff and reversing labour hire and contractors. Can provide links if required.

Cost increase

Agreed. Tell me about it. My wage went up 2 and 3 per cent over the past 2 years. Inflation totals about 15 per cent. Before that Tony Abbott was hardcore on low pay rises leading to disputes and terrible deals for workers. Labour is supposed to give us a better deal but not so far. Once I retire I'll be on a defined benefit that will rise with inflation. Haven't timed it particularly well.

At least age pensions are linked to inflation so better than my situation. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

  On 2/11/2023 at 1:12 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Why do you say Services Australia / Centerlink were not aware of your arrival back in Australia?  Did you ask a staff member?  Were you expecting them to post you a new concession card the day you landed?  Where would they post it to? 

 

I think it's more a case of letting new arrives comes to us, rather than chasing them.

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Pre-Covid, I would walk into a Centrelink office and the staffer would confirm a concession card had already been posted to me. This time around, it was "Oh, you're here" and the card had not been posted to me, so I got a printout instead which expires in another 11 days. Hopefully Australia Post will be on the ball.

 

You keep using the American spelling Centerlink.   It's Centrelink, OK?

 

"Scheduled maintenance is being conducted from 12:00am to 2:00am AEDT Wednesday 8 February 2023. Centrelink Business Online Services, the Child Care Subsidy ..." ( From the Services Australia website )

 

You may be right, it is up to clients to chase them now. Which is a pain on 132 300, given the wait times.

[LosLobo]

  On 2/11/2023 at 4:31 AM, Lacessit said:

Pre-Covid, I would walk into a Centrelink office and the staffer would confirm a concession card had already been posted to me. This time around, it was "Oh, you're here" and the card had not been posted to me, so I got a printout instead which expires in another 11 days. Hopefully Australia Post will be on the ball.

 

You keep using the American spelling Centerlink.   It's Centrelink, OK?

 

"Scheduled maintenance is being conducted from 12:00am to 2:00am AEDT Wednesday 8 February 2023. Centrelink Business Online Services, the Child Care Subsidy ..." ( From the Services Australia website )

 

You may be right, it is up to clients to chase them now. Which is a pain on 132 300, given the wait times.

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Tip: Use the Compliments and Feedback Line and jump the queue.

 

You will also get a senior staff member who knows what they are talking about.

[scorecard]

  On 2/11/2023 at 4:31 AM, Lacessit said:

Pre-Covid, I would walk into a Centrelink office and the staffer would confirm a concession card had already been posted to me. This time around, it was "Oh, you're here" and the card had not been posted to me, so I got a printout instead which expires in another 11 days. Hopefully Australia Post will be on the ball.

 

You keep using the American spelling Centerlink.   It's Centrelink, OK?

 

"Scheduled maintenance is being conducted from 12:00am to 2:00am AEDT Wednesday 8 February 2023. Centrelink Business Online Services, the Child Care Subsidy ..." ( From the Services Australia website )

 

You may be right, it is up to clients to chase them now. Which is a pain on 132 300, given the wait times.

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I've called 132 300 many times. Always answered within perhaps 15 seconds, always polite officers, good listeners. Always got a focused clear answer

 

You say "...You may be right, it is up to clients to chase them now. ..." 

 

That's a big statement, there's many benefits etc., available to Australians, some can happen automaticlly, some can't and need more processing and Centrelink don't / can't know the personal circumstances of every pensioner. And most pensioners wouldn't want Cenrelink to know all of the personal business, their cicumstances etc. 

[giddyup]

I withdrew all my money from ANZ a few months back and transferred it to SCB Thailand. The bulk of that money had been in Term Deposits with ANZ, money that Centrelink was deeming and reducing my OAP accordingly. I went online to the Centrelink site and changed the details so it now read zero money with ANZ. However my pension payments have remained the same. Should they have increased?

[LosLobo]

  On 2/11/2023 at 5:51 AM, giddyup said:

I withdrew all my money from ANZ a few months back and transferred it to SCB Thailand. The bulk of that money had been in Term Deposits with ANZ, money that Centrelink was deeming and reducing my OAP accordingly. I went online to the Centrelink site and changed the details so it now read zero money with ANZ. However my pension payments have remained the same. Should they have increased?

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If you moved the money around from bank to bank irrespective of location, there should be no change in pension.

If you only removed it online from ANZ without showing a corresponding amount to another asset like a car or household goods etc, there may be issues.

 

If no other entry it is doubtful that Centrelink would just accept your word without some evidence of what happened to the money. 

 

Valid reasons may be payment for holidays gambling fraud etc.

 

Invalid reasons may be no reason or gifting etc.

 

I would suggest you resolve this unless you gave your SCB account details on line too or it is only a minor amount, as penalties do exist 

 

 

[giddyup]

  On 2/11/2023 at 6:52 AM, LosLobo said:

If you moved the money around from bank to bank irrespective of location, there should be no change in pension.

If you only removed it online from ANZ without showing a corresponding amount to another asset like a car or household goods etc, there may be issues.

 

If no other entry it is doubtful that Centrelink would just accept your word without some evidence of what happened to the money. 

 

Valid reasons may be payment for holidays gambling fraud etc.

 

Invalid reasons may be no reason or gifting etc.

 

I would suggest you resolve this unless you gave your SCB account details on line too or it is only a minor amount, as penalties do exist 

 

 

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There is no way to show online where the money has gone or why. Certainly never gave SCB details.

[LosLobo]

  On 2/11/2023 at 6:58 AM, giddyup said:

There is no way to show online where the money has gone or why. Certainly never gave SCB details.

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I have always had the ability to add or delete other bank accounts but i have only tried at the same BSB. The only missing item was Gifting where I sent them a letter.

 

If there was no facility for you to add another BSB or explanation, you should have phoned them or sent them a letter on line.

 

 

[Lacessit]

  On 2/11/2023 at 5:36 AM, scorecard said:

I've called 132 300 many times. Always answered within perhaps 15 seconds, always polite officers, good listeners. Always got a focused clear answer

 

You say "...You may be right, it is up to clients to chase them now. ..." 

 

That's a big statement, there's many benefits etc., available to Australians, some can happen automaticlly, some can't and need more processing and Centrelink don't / can't know the personal circumstances of every pensioner. And most pensioners wouldn't want Cenrelink to know all of the personal business, their cicumstances etc. 

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With your kind of luck in getting answered that quickly by a human, I'd be buying plenty of TattsLotto tickets.

I said 90 minutes hang time, that's what it was.

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/11/2023 at 1:52 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Tax on pensions for overseas residents

I am a current public servant in a large department who keeps up with a fair bit of what's happening. In the current environment I see no likelihood of such a move. Especially under labour. It would not be likely to be politically palatable based on the fairness factor - can you imagine all the different ethnic groups pushing back. There may be the odd paper looking at options and you are correct that I have no knowledge to say it definitively won't happen. 

Expand  

I, and a few other members, posted links to the proposed changes on how the government may be deeming who is a resident, and who is a non resident for taxation purposes in the future.  The main part of the proposed changes was being inside, or outside of Australia for 183 days a year.  Indeed, they called this the "bright line test" meaning to me it will hold significant weight upon how an individual will be classified.

 

The effect of these changes, if they come in, will not differentiate between a billionaire, millionaire, and a pensioner.  All three have a name, date of birth, and a passport number, and have been outside of Australia for more than 183 days, as shown in immigration records.  Everything will be handled by a computer data base. 

 

Will they make an exemption for pensioners, maybe, maybe not?  Let's hope they do. 

 

The proposed changes were put forward by the Liberals, does it really matter if the changes come in when they are next in power?  Relying on Labor for the next few years is only a buying some time to come up with a plan.  

 

As I have said in previous posts, don't expect pensioners back in Australia to care, because it doesn't effect them one bit, and don't expect the government to be worried about losing votes, because how many expats make their way to an Australian Embassy at election time, so no votes lost on this policy. 

 

Non resident taxation, and their high rates, have been around for years.  Nothing new about this taxation policy.  What is new, if these changes come in, is the grey area that many, including myself, have been able to skirt around and still claim to be a resident for taxation purposes will be replaced by the 183 day law, and there's no getting around that, because you are either in, or out of the country for 183 day, and this is recorded by immigration. 

 

Once again, these proposed changes do not target pensioners, they are clearly designed to scoop up everyone.  Expat pensioners may just be collateral  damage.

 

  On 2/11/2023 at 1:52 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Privatisation

Your articles are a bit old from five years ago. Some jobs may have been contracted out here and there but total control is of course with the government. When it does happen it is bad for workers as they don't get the same conditions as other public servants but generally not a big issue I should think for pensioners. Labour's policy is to reverse what the Coalition is doing e.g. more full time APS staff and reversing labour hire and contractors. Can provide links if required.

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Yes, but as I said in another post, who really cares whether the government administers the new changes, or a private company. 

 

If it becomes law, there will be no difference between the two.  It's not like the government will show any mercy.  The law is the law.

 

  On 2/11/2023 at 1:52 AM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Cost increase

Agreed. Tell me about it. My wage went up 2 and 3 per cent over the past 2 years. Inflation totals about 15 per cent. Before that Tony Abbott was hardcore on low pay rises leading to disputes and terrible deals for workers. Labour is supposed to give us a better deal but not so far. Once I retire I'll be on a defined benefit that will rise with inflation. Haven't timed it particularly well.

At least age pensions are linked to inflation so better than my situation. 

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This goes to the heart of the matter.

 

Say you retire and take your super as a monthly payment.  You leave Australia and live in Thailand.  Is that monthly payment an "income" under the law?  If so, and you are outside of Australia for 183 days, how to you propose to argue that your monthly payment should not be taxed at non resident rates?

 

It's money "earned" in Australia, and you live overseas. 

[Lacessit]

  On 2/11/2023 at 5:51 AM, giddyup said:

I withdrew all my money from ANZ a few months back and transferred it to SCB Thailand. The bulk of that money had been in Term Deposits with ANZ, money that Centrelink was deeming and reducing my OAP accordingly. I went online to the Centrelink site and changed the details so it now read zero money with ANZ. However my pension payments have remained the same. Should they have increased?

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You should be reporting the amount you have with SCB in Thai baht. There would be little change on that basis.

Yes, your pension should have increased. However, that increase is based on hiding assets in another country. If that concealment is detected by Centrelink, expect repercussions.

[scorecard]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:18 AM, Lacessit said:

With your kind of luck in getting answered that quickly by a human, I'd be buying plenty of TattsLotto tickets.

I said 90 minutes hang time, that's what it was.

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When are you talking about, recently?

 

The older australians line 132 300?

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/11/2023 at 4:31 AM, Lacessit said:

Pre-Covid, I would walk into a Centrelink office and the staffer would confirm a concession card had already been posted to me. This time around, it was "Oh, you're here" and the card had not been posted to me, so I got a printout instead which expires in another 11 days. Hopefully Australia Post will be on the ball.

 

You keep using the American spelling Centerlink.   It's Centrelink, OK?

 

"Scheduled maintenance is being conducted from 12:00am to 2:00am AEDT Wednesday 8 February 2023. Centrelink Business Online Services, the Child Care Subsidy ..." ( From the Services Australia website )

 

You may be right, it is up to clients to chase them now. Which is a pain on 132 300, given the wait times.

Expand  

So it appears this may have changed. 

 

One must present themselves at an office, instead of documents (cards) automatically being sent out. 

[Lacessit]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:25 AM, scorecard said:

When are you talking about, recently?

 

The older australians line 132 300?

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Yes, called that number on January 30.

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/11/2023 at 5:51 AM, giddyup said:

I withdrew all my money from ANZ a few months back and transferred it to SCB Thailand. The bulk of that money had been in Term Deposits with ANZ, money that Centrelink was deeming and reducing my OAP accordingly. I went online to the Centrelink site and changed the details so it now read zero money with ANZ. However my pension payments have remained the same. Should they have increased?

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That's one option, but doesn't a pension application take into account overseas assets and income?  Did you make a false declaration? 

[scorecard]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:29 AM, Lacessit said:

Yes, called that number on January 30.

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30 January 2023?

 

And wait time was 90 minutes?

[Lacessit]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:21 AM, KhunHeineken said:

 

The proposed changes were put forward by the Liberals, does it really matter if the changes come in when they are next in power?  Relying on Labor for the next few years is only a buying some time to come up with a plan.  

 

 

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I am predicting I will have carked it by the time the Liberals get back in, assuming they ever do.

[giddyup]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:32 AM, KhunHeineken said:

That's one option, but doesn't a pension application take into account overseas assets and income?  Did you make a false declaration? 

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No false declaration. I just showed that my ANZ account was now empty. There is nowhere to specify where the money has gone.

[Artisi]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:32 AM, KhunHeineken said:

That's one option, but doesn't a pension application take into account overseas assets and income?  Did you make a false declaration? 

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Nobody would ever do that when off-shore, now would they? 

[giddyup]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:32 AM, scorecard said:

30 January 2023?

 

And wait time was 90 minutes?

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I thought answering time was supposed to be a matter of seconds?

[giddyup]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:36 AM, Artisi said:

Nobody would ever do that when off-shore, now would they? 

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I have been transferring money regularly from Oz to Thailand for 14 years, am I supposed to notify C'link every time I do and what I spend my money on?

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:36 AM, giddyup said:

No false declaration. I just showed that my ANZ account was now empty. There is nowhere to specify where the money has gone.

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I've never filled the form out, but surely it asks what you own.  Eg.  house, Ferrari, diamonds, shares, CASH etc. 

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:41 AM, giddyup said:

I have been transferring money regularly from Oz to Thailand for 14 years, am I supposed to notify C'link every time I do and what I spend my money on?

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What do you think would happen if / when Centrelink discover you have assets / income in Thailand? 

 

You do know Australia has a tax treaty with Thailand. 

[LosLobo]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:21 AM, KhunHeineken said:

I, and a few other members, posted links to the proposed changes on how the government may be deeming who is a resident, and who is a non resident for taxation purposes in the future.  The main part of the proposed changes was being inside, or outside of Australia for 183 days a year.  Indeed, they called this the "bright line test" meaning to me it will hold significant weight upon how an individual will be classified.

 

The effect of these changes, if they come in, will not differentiate between a billionaire, millionaire, and a pensioner.  All three have a name, date of birth, and a passport number, and have been outside of Australia for more than 183 days, as shown in immigration records.  Everything will be handled by a computer data base. 

 

Will they make an exemption for pensioners, maybe, maybe not?  Let's hope they do. 

 

The proposed changes were put forward by the Liberals, does it really matter if the changes come in when they are next in power?  Relying on Labor for the next few years is only a buying some time to come up with a plan.  

 

As I have said in previous posts, don't expect pensioners back in Australia to care, because it doesn't effect them one bit, and don't expect the government to be worried about losing votes, because how many expats make their way to an Australian Embassy at election time, so no votes lost on this policy. 

 

Non resident taxation, and their high rates, have been around for years.  Nothing new about this taxation policy.  What is new, if these changes come in, is the grey area that many, including myself, have been able to skirt around and still claim to be a resident for taxation purposes will be replaced by the 183 day law, and there's no getting around that, because you are either in, or out of the country for 183 day, and this is recorded by immigration. 

 

Once again, these proposed changes do not target pensioners, they are clearly designed to scoop up everyone.  Expat pensioners may just be collateral  damage.

 

Yes, but as I said in another post, who really cares whether the government administers the new changes, or a private company. 

 

If it becomes law, there will be no difference between the two.  It's not like the government will show any mercy.  The law is the law.

 

This goes to the heart of the matter.

 

Say you retire and take your super as a monthly payment.  You leave Australia and live in Thailand.  Is that monthly payment an "income" under the law?  If so, and you are outside of Australia for 183 days, how to you propose to argue that your monthly payment should not be taxed at non resident rates?

 

It's money "earned" in Australia, and you live overseas. 

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It's money "earned" in Australia".

 

Yes it is.

 

Yet the most of the payment is the person's own money  and they have already paid tax on it. 

 

Most of your posts are about what you are thinking, not what will happen.

 

Suggest, you should keep your anxious thoughts to yourself until legislation becomes law.

 

 

[Artisi]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:41 AM, giddyup said:

I have been transferring money regularly from Oz to Thailand for 14 years, am I supposed to notify C'link every time I do and what I spend my money on?

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As I did for many years, just marked it as substance on the list of reasons, but who knows what is on store if the changes being discussed ( ignored by some) come into play, although probably won't affect money transfers. 

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:33 AM, Lacessit said:

I am predicting I will have carked it by the time the Liberals get back in, assuming they ever do.

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Ok.  Any advice for the expats coming through? 

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:47 AM, LosLobo said:

It's money "earned" in Australia".

 

Yes it is.

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So therefore it's "income" and at risk of being taxed at non resident rates under the proposed changes.  Do you agree or disagree with this? 

 

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:47 AM, LosLobo said:

Yet the most of the payment is the person's own money  and they have already paid tax on it. 

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Not non resident tax though, right?

 

The whole game changes when outside of Australia for 183 day, if these changes come in. 

 

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:47 AM, LosLobo said:

Most of your posts are about what is your are thinking is, not what will happen.

 

Suggest, you should keep your anxious thoughts to yourself until legislation becomes law.

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Isn't that what we are all doing on this forum, discussing the proposed changes, and how they MAY or MAY NOT be implemented, and how they MAY or MAY NOT effect individuals?  

 

Of course I am presenting my thoughts and opinions on the matter, aren't you?  

 

One thing that is not an opinion are the proposed changes.  They are fact.  If / when they come in, we will see how they will be implemented, but the "183 day bright line test" is of some concern for me, and no doubt some others, and possibly pensioners as well.   

 

Perhaps Centrelink pensions will be exempt, but superannuation payment will not be exempt.  Or, there will be no exemptions for anyone.  Who knows?    

 

Nothing wrong with discussing the proposed changes and their possible effects on expats. 

[KhunHeineken]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:48 AM, Artisi said:

As I did for many years, just marked it as substance on the list of reasons, but who knows what is on store if the changes being discussed ( ignored by some) come into play, although probably won't affect money transfers. 

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It can't effect money transfers, but Centrelink will know you are overseas, so there maybe less money (non resident taxed pension) deposited into your Australian bank account for you to then transfer to Thailand.  Let's hope pensions are exempt, but it seems they are deemed as "income" at law. 

[giddyup]

  On 2/11/2023 at 7:47 AM, KhunHeineken said:

What do you think would happen if / when Centrelink discover you have assets / income in Thailand? 

 

You do know Australia has a tax treaty with Thailand. 

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Same assets, just different location.