Chiang Mai Province Bans Burning Of Waste

[mcgriffith]

I particularly remember the very effective television ad campaign aired in the 60's, with shots of paper trash blowing on the side of a highway, and the camera cutting to the face of an old American Indian chief in full headdress, with a tear slowly rolling down his cheek.....

[Mapguy]

For related threads on this site, some of which have very substantive information, key word "air quality" or "pollution." Also visit a recent thread, "Yes! It's raining!"

[Crow Boy]

Two very good posts have had to be deleted because they referenced HM which as everybody surely knows by know is against the rules. Please do not make such comments again.

Crowboy

[mobs00]

Another local news article about the ongoing fires is here.

A "Burning" Issue

[Mapguy]

With the unusually frequent rains for January – February, pollution in the area has been cut dramatically. Earlier this week, the weather was absolutely terrific. Want to do what you can to help to add to such days? Here's one helpful thing that over time will increase official concern and hopefully, attention.

Call 053.409.345 whenever you see burning fields or burning trash. You can also report smoke. This number belongs to the Disaster Office of Chiang Mai Province. That office is connected to all of the relevant police and fire agencies within the province. Your call will be logged and passed along to the appropriate department.

At night, the night duty officer might not speak Thai. The suggestion made by the office, is, of course, to get a Thai-speaking friend to help you. Obviously, you need to be able to know where the problem is. The more specific the better.

I have the number in my cell phone memory under "pollution." It is of course also useful for emergencies. Local police or fire department numbers, if you have them, will bring a quicker response.

[Priceless]

With the unusually frequent rains for January – February, pollution in the area has been cut dramatically. Earlier this week, the weather was absolutely terrific. Want to do what you can to help to add to such days? Here's one helpful thing that over time will increase official concern and hopefully, attention.

Call 053.409.345 whenever you see burning fields or burning trash. You can also report smoke. This number belongs to the Disaster Office of Chiang Mai Province. That office is connected to all of the relevant police and fire agencies within the province. Your call will be logged and passed along to the appropriate department.

At night, the night duty officer might not speak Thai. The suggestion made by the office, is, of course, to get a Thai-speaking friend to help you. Obviously, you need to be able to know where the problem is. The more specific the better.

I have the number in my cell phone memory under "pollution." It is of course also useful for emergencies. Local police or fire department numbers, if you have them, will bring a quicker response.

Any hint as to what language s/he does speak?

/ Priceless

[Mapguy]

Sorry: "Might not speak English." Slip of the foot!

[chiangmaibruce]

Just my 2 bahts worth ... we also have an issue with burning by neighbours but we are seeing some progress.

Our village (in sansai noi) now has a nominated person to deal with this issue. When he is not available the village head man will act (like he did today) and talk to the burners. This is mainly just leaves being burnt but can still be pretty sickening esp when you have a cough already. At the worst times we have to close the windows and put on the aircon.

The approach is just to talk to them (not sure what exactly is said). I think some headway is being made as (apart from today) most of the fires are now being lit at night (some guilt emerging?) when it is more difficult to trace the source. The village headman has also mentioned the issue several times in his periodic addresses via the local loudspeaker tower (ie. asked people not to burn).

I am the only farang here and try to be patient (though I confess that I did go right off at one lot of neighbours in March last year when the pollution was at its worst and my whole family had coughs). Some neighbours did complain about it to one another last year (but not to the perpetrators), and to some extent I think our known stance on the issue has gradually galvanised resolve amongst some locals to now at least complain to the headman.

My wife also confirms that there is very little written about the issue in the Thai newspapers (for example Feb/March last year) compared to the English language ones. Despite this I firmly believe that the pollution issue (or more accurately the western media coverage it received) is a very major factor behind the reduced visitor numbers to CNX this 'high' season.

I also like the idea of a small printed flyer with simple but strong language asking people not to burn (and why). This would help raise the issue and get people talking in the street. This in turn would present a way for neighbours to express their disapproval of burning in front of those responsible, but in a way that no-one is accused or needs to lose face.

This could be a good project for the CityLife people and their graphic designers. I don't want to belittle their current carbon-neutral push, but I do think that this smoke/burning issue is more an immediate concern - especially at this time of year.

- CB

[Priceless]

Just my 2 bahts worth ... we also have an issue with burning by neighbours but we are seeing some progress.

Our village (in sansai noi) now has a nominated person to deal with this issue. When he is not available the village head man will act (like he did today) and talk to the burners. This is mainly just leaves being burnt but can still be pretty sickening esp when you have a cough already. At the worst times we have to close the windows and put on the aircon.

The approach is just to talk to them (not sure what exactly is said). I think some headway is being made as (apart from today) most of the fires are now being lit at night (some guilt emerging?) when it is more difficult to trace the source. The village headman has also mentioned the issue several times in his periodic addresses via the local loudspeaker tower (ie. asked people not to burn).

I am the only farang here and try to be patient (though I confess that I did go right off at one lot of neighbours in March last year when the pollution was at its worst and my whole family had coughs). Some neighbours did complain about it to one another last year (but not to the perpetrators), and to some extent I think our known stance on the issue has gradually galvanised resolve amongst some locals to now at least complain to the headman.

My wife also confirms that there is very little written about the issue in the Thai newspapers (for example Feb/March last year) compared to the English language ones. Despite this I firmly believe that the pollution issue (or more accurately the western media coverage it received) is a very major factor behind the reduced visitor numbers to CNX this 'high' season.

I also like the idea of a small printed flyer with simple but strong language asking people not to burn (and why). This would help raise the issue and get people talking in the street. This in turn would present a way for neighbours to express their disapproval of burning in front of those responsible, but in a way that no-one is accused or needs to lose face.

This could be a good project for the CityLife people and their graphic designers. I don't want to belittle their current carbon-neutral push, but I do think that this smoke/burning issue is more an immediate concern - especially at this time of year.

- CB

Thank you for an interesting and, after all, somewhat encouraging post

/ Priceless

[JuniorExPat]

. . . snip . . . .

I also like the idea of a small printed flyer with simple but strong language asking people not to burn (and why). This would help raise the issue and get people talking in the street. This in turn would present a way for neighbours to express their disapproval of burning in front of those responsible, but in a way that no-one is accused or needs to lose face.

This could be a good project for the CityLife people and their graphic designers. I don't want to belittle their current carbon-neutral push, but I do think that this smoke/burning issue is more an immediate concern - especially at this time of year.

- CB

Thank you for an interesting and, after all, somewhat encouraging post

/ Priceless

chiangmaibruce - I took the liberty of passing on your idea to Pim at CityLife, she tells me that our Lady Mayor says that the Municipality is coming out with a pamphlet of this nature to be distributed throughout the area.

I expect Sao Jiang Mai will keep us informed.

JxP

[mobs00]

Another great article in the Chiang Mai Mail.

Chiang Mai in Flames - This time it's Serious

and another.

Anti-pollution measures now in place in Chiang Mai

Edited February 5, 2008 by mobs00

[chiangmaibruce]

1. JxP - Good you spoke to the Citylife people + I note the comment that the CM Mayor plans a leaflet. I seem to recall reading in CityLife how she also stated that she would welcome and respond to emails from concerned residents (about city issues) + then how no responses were received to the ensuing emails. The thing is ... the leaflet needs to be 'punchy' and it needs to be circulated NOW. Somehow, sadly, I think it is a "not going to happen" on both counts.

2. TV users would have read of the smoke hotline in this forum and in this week's CM Mail. Well my wife just called it. I can tell you that they were polite and offered to send someone BUT they were miles and miles away from our place AND they confessed that all they could do was talk to the burners - they could not issue fines. They said that the law that makes provisions for fines was not yet in force and would not be for some time. My wife asked if ANYONE could levy fines or do anything other than just talk to people lighting fires - they said no. SO, don't get your hopes up too high if you were thinking of calling the hotline.

- CB

[Mapguy]

1. JxP - Good you spoke to the Citylife people + I note the comment that the CM Mayor plans a leaflet. I seem to recall reading in CityLife how she also stated that she would welcome and respond to emails from concerned residents (about city issues) + then how no responses were received to the ensuing emails. The thing is ... the leaflet needs to be 'punchy' and it needs to be circulated NOW. Somehow, sadly, I think it is a "not going to happen" on both counts.

2. TV users would have read of the smoke hotline in this forum and in this week's CM Mail. Well my wife just called it. I can tell you that they were polite and offered to send someone BUT they were miles and miles away from our place AND they confessed that all they could do was talk to the burners - they could not issue fines. They said that the law that makes provisions for fines was not yet in force and would not be for some time. My wife asked if ANYONE could levy fines or do anything other than just talk to people lighting fires - they said no. SO, don't get your hopes up too high if you were thinking of calling the hotline.

- CB

The solution, often, is not to levy fines at all (at least for starters). The threat itself can sometimes be effective. it depends on what authority is making it. And, overall, the sanction situation is more complex. The bottom line is, however, if the right authority wants something to stop, he can be quite effective. Those authorities need to be encouraged.

[scotbeve]

As in all strict regimes..it is always a case of " don't do as I do, do as I tell you "....or else !

And last year (07') we saw the world's worst ever air pollution statistics from forest fires throughout the north as well as Burma... The military bases along the west side of route 107 (CNX - Fang Rd.) made some spectacular fires which spread to parts of the moutain range (Mae Sa Mae Rim Valley). Surely a case of "Do as I say, not as I do"....

[lannarebirth]

As in all strict regimes..it is always a case of " don't do as I do, do as I tell you "....or else !

And last year (07') we saw the world's worst ever air pollution statistics from forest fires throughout the north as well as Burma... The military bases along the west side of route 107 (CNX - Fang Rd.) made some spectacular fires which spread to parts of the moutain range (Mae Sa Mae Rim Valley). Surely a case of "Do as I say, not as I do"....

I'll grant you that it was unpleasant and unhealthful on some days last March, but there's no reason putting a "world's worst ever" label on it. I've experienced worse in China, on any day of any week.

[scotbeve]

As in all strict regimes..it is always a case of " don't do as I do, do as I tell you "....or else !

And last year (07') we saw the world's worst ever air pollution statistics from forest fires throughout the north as well as Burma... The military bases along the west side of route 107 (CNX - Fang Rd.) made some spectacular fires which spread to parts of the moutain range (Mae Sa Mae Rim Valley). Surely a case of "Do as I say, not as I do"....

I'll grant you that it was unpleasant and unhealthful on some days last March, but there's no reason putting a "world's worst ever" label on it. I've experienced worse in China, on any day of any week.

Mexico City has had the dubious honor of keeping the longest period of air pollution statistics, China has indeed surpassed this but for 2 days in Chiang Mai the Total Solids in the air were recorded at 329 ppm - the world's hightest ever. China has on an average about 200 ppm - can't remember the highest though - as of April (ish) last year. The annual Indonesian fires are long in periods, having 280 - 300 ppm, the highest was "approximately" 315 ppm. BTW - 180 ppm is considered unhealthy.

[Mapguy]

From Chiangmai Mail Vol. VII No.8 19 Feb 2008

New 24 hour emergency freecall number issued as burning continues

City authorities aware of need for public participation

Saksit Meesubkwang and Staff Reporter

As a further move in the attempts being made by the Chiang Mai Provincial Office of Natural Resources and the Environment, a new emergency call centre number has been announced. It is hoped that the new free call number – 1362 – will facilitate the reporting of burning of any kind within the city and its environs. City authorities are now making the air pollution problem an urgent agenda, and appreciate the need for public participation in its control.

Chiang Mai City’s specific problem is its geographical location on a flat plain surrounded by mountains. An inversion layer forms, preventing smoke, dust from dry earth, and fumes from escaping into the upper atmosphere, resulting in smog-like conditions and extremely poor air quality. Pollution levels are higher than, for example, USA-set safe levels, seriously affecting residents of the city who already suffer from respiratory illnesses and causing their numbers to increase. International publicity of this annually occurring problem also causes visitor numbers to drop, severely affecting the local economy. In 2007, the number of tourists visiting the city fell by 25%, and nearly 10,000 rai of forest were destroyed by fire.

The traditional “slash and burn” method of clearing and fertilising land, still employed by the majority in spite of new regulations and increased penalties, together with the burning of rubbish, including plastics and other materials which give off toxic fumes, combine, particularly during the hot season, to form a cocktail of polluted air which hangs above the city itself, unable to be dispersed. Should major forest fires or other conflagrations occur in the countries bordering Thailand, as happened in 2007 on the Burmese border, pollution levels soar still higher. So far, in 2008, there have been no such occurrences; as a result, city pollution levels are lower then in 2007. However, local burning still seems to be continuing, largely unreported and unchecked.

Plans for future solutions to the problem, to be inaugurated between 2008 and 2011, include preparations for local administration authorities to be able to buy plant debris from growers, farmers and villagers. This will be able to be processed into fertiliser and distributed back to its suppliers for use on their fields, thus obviating the need for burning. To aid in the control of forest fires, the National Parks Department has been able to lease channel time on a USA satellite which overflies the Northern area of Thailand, in order to swiftly identify and deal with outbreaks of fire. In the case of areas of forest already devastated by fires, replacement trees will be planted and supervised by the Forest Department to ensure their growth. 24 hour emergency call centres will be set up in each province and its districts, to enable residents to report fires as they occur.

[scotbeve]

From Chiangmai Mail Vol. VII No.8 19 Feb 2008

New 24 hour emergency freecall number issued as burning continues

City authorities aware of need for public participation

Saksit Meesubkwang and Staff Reporter

As a further move in the attempts being made by the Chiang Mai Provincial Office of Natural Resources and the Environment, a new emergency call centre number has been announced. It is hoped that the new free call number – 1362 – will facilitate the reporting of burning of any kind within the city and its environs. City authorities are now making the air pollution problem an urgent agenda, and appreciate the need for public participation in its control.

........

problem also causes visitor numbers to drop, severely affecting the local economy. In 2007, the number of tourists visiting the city fell by 25%, and nearly 10,000 rai of forest were destroyed by fire.

The traditional "slash and burn" method of clearing and fertilising land, still employed by the majority in spite of new regulations and increased penalties, together with the burning of rubbish, including plastics and other materials which give off toxic fumes, combine, particularly during the hot season, to form a cocktail of polluted air which hangs above the city itself, unable to be dispersed. Should major forest fires or other conflagrations occur in the countries bordering Thailand, as happened in 2007 on the Burmese border, pollution levels soar still higher. So far, in 2008, there have been no such occurrences; as a result, city pollution levels are lower then in 2007. However, local burning still seems to be continuing, largely unreported and unchecked.

Plans for future solutions to the problem, to be inaugurated between 2008 and 2011, include preparations for local administration authorities to be able to buy plant debris from growers, farmers and villagers. This will be able to be processed into fertiliser and distributed back to its suppliers for use on their fields, thus obviating the need for burning. To aid in the control of forest fires, the National Parks Department has been able to lease channel time on a USA satellite which overflies the Northern area of Thailand, in order to swiftly identify and deal with outbreaks of fire. In the case of areas of forest already devastated by fires, replacement trees will be planted and supervised by the Forest Department to ensure their growth. 24 hour emergency call centres will be set up in each province and its districts, to enable residents to report fires as they occur.

Good post mapguy.

In addition to the informative reply above. One can just drive up route 107 ( Ch. Mai - Fang road) and see from the northern side of Mae Dtang to the end of the mountainous section near Chai Prakan annually the devastation caused by burn offs - usually the undergrowth. One of the worst areas, ironically, is near the Prao intersection on Rt. 107. AND there's a forestry office no more than 200m from the intersection. After that one can see the massive burn offs. Other areas include San Khampangphet, Tak, Phayo, and a large majority of forest land in Chiang Rai province. Very sad. If any of you know any of the TAO (Tambon Administration Org.) folks, ask them if they've started any compost areas or did in the past. We had several up in Mae Ai but it seems that they just fizzled out....

[Thailand]

"new free call number – 1362 "

This should be on everybody's phone and perhaps pinned ?

[scotbeve]

"new free call number – 1362 "

This should be on everybody's phone and perhaps pinned ?

Sounds like a good idea to me and done already. Now to get some response ... that's what I'd like to see!

[Priceless]

As in all strict regimes..it is always a case of " don't do as I do, do as I tell you "....or else !

And last year (07') we saw the world's worst ever air pollution statistics from forest fires throughout the north as well as Burma... The military bases along the west side of route 107 (CNX - Fang Rd.) made some spectacular fires which spread to parts of the moutain range (Mae Sa Mae Rim Valley). Surely a case of "Do as I say, not as I do"....

I'll grant you that it was unpleasant and unhealthful on some days last March, but there's no reason putting a "world's worst ever" label on it. I've experienced worse in China, on any day of any week.

Mexico City has had the dubious honor of keeping the longest period of air pollution statistics, China has indeed surpassed this but for 2 days in Chiang Mai the Total Solids in the air were recorded at 329 ppm - the world's hightest ever. China has on an average about 200 ppm - can't remember the highest though - as of April (ish) last year. The annual Indonesian fires are long in periods, having 280 - 300 ppm, the highest was "approximately" 315 ppm. BTW - 180 ppm is considered unhealthy.

The highlighted information above is very interesting, what's your source for it? According to the Pollution Control Department the highest pollution level (PM<10) ever recorded in Chiang Mai is 303.9 microgrammes per cubic metre on 14 March 2007. The second highest is 284 microgrammes per cubic metre on the previous day.

Have you got another and more reliable source than the Pollution Control Department or are you adding some kind of VAT to their figures?

BTW, every monthly average pollution level for the last 10 months (i.e. since 1 May 2007) has been lower than the average for the corresponding month during the period 2000 - 2008. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that:

A/ This is a sign of beginning success in suppressing the pollution sources.

B/ We won't get an extremely persistent inversion like the the one of March last year.

/ Priceless

PS You mention that "China has on an average about 200 ppm". It might be worth mentioning that Chiang Mai's highest ever monthly average is 161.7 microgrammes per cubic metre, again in March of 2007.

[Ulysses G.]

The highlighted information above is very interesting, what's your source for it? According to the Pollution Control Department the highest pollution level (PM<10) ever recorded in Chiang Mai is 303.9 microgrammes per cubic metre on 14 March 2007. The second highest is 284 microgrammes per cubic metre on the previous day.

Have you got another and more reliable source than the Pollution Control Department or are you adding some kind of VAT to their figures?

What would we do without Priceless to monitor and present the true statistics?

[scotbeve]

I guess my memory isn't what it used to be..... I stand corrected! Didn't bring my info on ext drive with me and I'm in a remote area (land being 40nmiles away) and the internet is sloooow.

[lannarebirth]

Why Not "The hel_l With Him"

Why not get tough enough to toss off those sources

hiding suffering inside with ‘the hel_l with it’?

Don’t waver, dawdle, and go soft taking it on, so ‘mego’

will stubbornly return and choke the life out of you.

All the trivial things floating this way and that:

don’t go inflating, puffing as if they’re all big deals.

Get over it all, the petty stuff is far too numerous,

just throw ‘em away quick with ‘the hel_l with it.’

When ‘mego’ drops or fades however little

one calms and cools down at least that much.

We save ourselves by knowing to ‘the hel_l with it’

until everyone is a master in its daily application.

Ajarn Buddhadasa

[scotbeve]

As in all strict regimes..it is always a case of " don't do as I do, do as I tell you "....or else !

And last year (07') we saw the world's worst ever air pollution statistics from forest fires throughout the north as well as Burma... The military bases along the west side of route 107 (CNX - Fang Rd.) made some spectacular fires which spread to parts of the moutain range (Mae Sa Mae Rim Valley). Surely a case of "Do as I say, not as I do"....

I'll grant you that it was unpleasant and unhealthful on some days last March, but there's no reason putting a "world's worst ever" label on it. I've experienced worse in China, on any day of any week.

Mexico City has had the dubious honor of keeping the longest period of air pollution statistics, China has indeed surpassed this but for 2 days in Chiang Mai the Total Solids in the air were recorded at 329 ppm - the world's hightest ever. China has on an average about 200 ppm - can't remember the highest though - as of April (ish) last year. The annual Indonesian fires are long in periods, having 280 - 300 ppm, the highest was "approximately" 315 ppm. BTW - 180 ppm is considered unhealthy.

The highlighted information above is very interesting, what's your source for it? According to the Pollution Control Department the highest pollution level (PM<10) ever recorded in Chiang Mai is 303.9 microgrammes per cubic metre on 14 March 2007. The second highest is 284 microgrammes per cubic metre on the previous day.

Have you got another and more reliable source than the Pollution Control Department or are you adding some kind of VAT to their figures?

BTW, every monthly average pollution level for the last 10 months (i.e. since 1 May 2007) has been lower than the average for the corresponding month during the period 2000 - 2008. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that:

A/ This is a sign of beginning success in suppressing the pollution sources.

B/ We won't get an extremely persistent inversion like the the one of March last year.

/ Priceless

PS You mention that "China has on an average about 200 ppm". It might be worth mentioning that Chiang Mai's highest ever monthly average is 161.7 microgrammes per cubic metre, again in March of 2007.

Priceless,

My neighbor works for the EPA in Chiang Mai. Yes, it's possible he quoted (or I quoted) it mistakenly....

[scotbeve]

Are Thais taught, in school or in life, to connect dots that aren't obvious? I mean, dots such as the emissions of invisible pathogens from the Thailpipes of their cars, to bad health, to getting a tuneup? I doubt that most of them are.

Texas had a very successful campaign against roadside litter with their "Don't Mess With Texas!" campaign, but that's a whole 'nother world where the ad campaigns had songs by Willie Nelson and Freddie Fender.

Maybe we could incorporate their national pride in this. That usually gets Thais to come together and act.

Something like "Thailand used to have the cleanest air in the world and was the most beautiful country on earth, all Thai people should come together to make it so again."

Perhaps the Royal family could use some of Their subtle persuasion....

[Priceless]

As in all strict regimes..it is always a case of " don't do as I do, do as I tell you "....or else !

And last year (07') we saw the world's worst ever air pollution statistics from forest fires throughout the north as well as Burma... The military bases along the west side of route 107 (CNX - Fang Rd.) made some spectacular fires which spread to parts of the moutain range (Mae Sa Mae Rim Valley). Surely a case of "Do as I say, not as I do"....

I'll grant you that it was unpleasant and unhealthful on some days last March, but there's no reason putting a "world's worst ever" label on it. I've experienced worse in China, on any day of any week.

Mexico City has had the dubious honor of keeping the longest period of air pollution statistics, China has indeed surpassed this but for 2 days in Chiang Mai the Total Solids in the air were recorded at 329 ppm - the world's hightest ever. China has on an average about 200 ppm - can't remember the highest though - as of April (ish) last year. The annual Indonesian fires are long in periods, having 280 - 300 ppm, the highest was "approximately" 315 ppm. BTW - 180 ppm is considered unhealthy.

The highlighted information above is very interesting, what's your source for it? According to the Pollution Control Department the highest pollution level (PM<10) ever recorded in Chiang Mai is 303.9 microgrammes per cubic metre on 14 March 2007. The second highest is 284 microgrammes per cubic metre on the previous day.

Have you got another and more reliable source than the Pollution Control Department or are you adding some kind of VAT to their figures?

BTW, every monthly average pollution level for the last 10 months (i.e. since 1 May 2007) has been lower than the average for the corresponding month during the period 2000 - 2008. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that:

A/ This is a sign of beginning success in suppressing the pollution sources.

B/ We won't get an extremely persistent inversion like the the one of March last year.

/ Priceless

PS You mention that "China has on an average about 200 ppm". It might be worth mentioning that Chiang Mai's highest ever monthly average is 161.7 microgrammes per cubic metre, again in March of 2007.

Priceless,

My neighbor works for the EPA in Chiang Mai. Yes, it's possible he quoted (or I quoted) it mistakenly....

In my post, I was trying to be kind in pointing out that your post was rubbish. Just to clear a few things up:

1/ Particulate matter pollution is measured in microgrammes per cubic metre (ug/m3), not in ppm. Ppm is used when measuring the concentration of one gas in another or a fluid in another, i.e. by volume. A concentration of "Total Solids" of 329 ppm, by volume, would mean that a Coke can (330 ccm) full of solids would be flying around in each cubic metre of air! Let's be thankful that was not the case, since I guess that would have meant that we'd all be dead by now, our lungs full of "Solids". It also appears that, in most parts of the world, what is measured is the concentration of particles less than 10 micrometres in size ("PM<10"), not "Total Solids" including the occasional brick thrown by some angry mason.

2/ Chiang Mai's PM<10 level of 303.9 ug/m3 on 14 March 2007, though unpleasant and unhealthful, is in no way a world record. In fact, it is not even by a long shot a Thai record. I did a quick browse through the historical data for Samut Prakarn and found a figure of 402.9 ug/m3 on 26 December 2004. A similar browse through the Sara Buri data turned up a value of 404.0 ug/m3 on 29 January 2004. Both these values are about a third higher than the "Chiang Mai record" but I have no idea whether they are "Thai records" since I am not about to sift through the 10's of thousands of recorded data for all the measuring points in Thailand.

3/ I had no idea that the EPA has an office in Chiang Mai. The information rather surprises me, since it is a US government agency with, as far as I know, no jurisdiction outside the US of A. Environmental quality issues in Thailand are the responsibility of the Pollution Control Department. If your neighbour works for the latter and doesn't even know who he is working for, I would consider him a rather dodgy source of factual information.

4/ When quoting factual data, especially on such an important subject as this (yes, I take environmental issues very seriously) it is most helpful if posters give a reference to their source. This is to facilitate readers' checking on the quality of the post and to make further reading possible for the interested. If you had mentioned that the numbers you gave were your recollections of what your neighbour had once told you, I'm sure fewer readers would have bothered about your post.

5/ BTW, my figures are all sourced from the Pollution Control Department website ( http://www.pcd.go.th/indexEng.cfm ).

/ Priceless

[Ulysses G.]

In my post, I was trying to be kind in pointing out that your post was rubbish.

What would we do without Priceless to monitor and present the true statistics?

[adjan jb]

Two funny posts have disapeared. Were they recycled or burnt ?

[Crow Boy]

Two funny posts have disapeared. Were they recycled or burnt ?

They were off topic so I composted them and that is the end of that little side thread.

thanks

CB