Tiger Boxer

[Richard-BKK]

MV-August never went out off business, in 1950, there was no NATO, and attack helicopters where something for a science fiction movie. No, MV-Augusta is a modern manufacturer of motorcycles and helicopters, and some other stuff.

It is true, MV-Augusta does not race in the MotoGP, and they also never did. They did raced in the GP500 and some other smaller engine displacements. Currently they have a racing team in the WSB. I belief that they doing good in the 1000cc series.

During the development of the Tiger Boxer, Cagiva was the property of MV-Augusta. Cagiva was founded in 1950. The first company, which was integrated into MV-Augusta, was CZ motorcycles. CZ (or Ceska Zbrojovka) was a Czech (Army) motorcycle manufacturer. In 1978 Cagiva bought the AMF Harley-Davidson factory in Italy, and Ducati. In 1986 Cagiva bought Husqvarna Motorcycles.

MV-Augusta has always had a good relation with BWM, and CZ motorcycles was one of the first companies which was split-off and moved into BMW. Much later, last year Husqvarna Motorcycle also moved to BMW. BMW and MV-Augusta share lots of technical data, it is said that the in-line and single cylinder engine designs are the work of MV-Augusta engineers.

MV-Augusta also started a company called CRC, which is specialized in motorcycle designs. Boht Ducati and MV-Augusta have a CRC (Café Racer Concept) motorcycle on the market. Even other motorcycle, and even car manufacturers use CRC Design studio for new designs.

Ducati is now a day an independent company, and Ducati and MV-Augusta are still closely related.

[Phil Conners]

I just got this very interesting reply from Khun Piti:

Thank you very much for your interest in our Tiger Boxer 250 RS. This machine will be ready for the market around end of April due to the legal procedures for approval by the government agencies.

We will plan test rides in several locations and one of them is in Pattaya area, we will inform you the place and time which should be around end of April. We enclose the information of this model which is an upgraded version of the Boxer 200 PX which we already supplied to the police force all over Thailand and will keep on supplying to them until March next year since the contract is about 20,000 units, up to now already 5,000 units were in use around Bangkok.

The upgrade items are the front suspension with all-aluminum brackets and upside down 35 mm. fork rear aluminum swingarm with reinforcement, rear shockabsorber with oil-resevior, bigger disc brake front and rear disc brake, wider front and rear aluminum casting wheels, front head light with projector lamp, 250 cc. sohc 4-stroke engine with large oil-cooler.

These upgrades easily make the Boxer 250 RS the highest performance motorcycle made and sold in Thailand.

I'll update this thread as/when I know more about the test rides.

[jdinasia]

hmmmm OK I have to admit that as a 250 I will be even more interested in the Boxer

[LivinLOS]

These upgrades easily make the Boxer 250 RS the highest performance motorcycle made and sold in Thailand.

Erm.. Wouldnt Triumph have something to say about that ?!?!

[LivinLOS]

That 'rocket boy' 135 might be a giggle if priced right.. I can see that having visual appeal.

[PeaceBlondie]

That is a very ambitious lineup of models for a Thai company which is not well known in Thailand. Good luck to them, especially considering the increased competition.

Checking here, http://www.globelicsindia2006.org/Patarapo...tarakumnerd.pdf

I found that the Thai retail motorcycle market for 2003 amounted to

Honda 72%

Suzuki 13%

Yamaha 10%

Tiger 3%

Kawasaki 2%

I found no mention of JRD, Platinum, Ducati, Moto-Guzzi, or Harley knock-offs. Tiger and Kawasaki each had a miniscule share of the total market, but by now it may be slightly different. Not that I have seen more than a few Tigers in the last few years (or many Kawas other than the obvious KSR110). So, for Tiger to say they are going to field about 15 models this year, strains credulity. I am often mistaken, of course.

[HangDongRider]

OK, spoke to the president (Khun Piti Manomaiphibul) of Tiger motorcycles and his secretary (Khun Panadda Lekavuniviset, [email protected], mobile: 0819075814) at the BITEC motorshow earlier last week. Both have been most helpful and informative answering my questions thus far.

Incidentally they have launched a new or modified bike the Tiger Boxer 250 RS which is rather interesting for a company apparently going out of business (if you listen to all the rumours floating about the cyber knitting circles). Costs Bt 69,000 and it looks great by the way though I have yet to test drive it.

The main factory address is 199 Moo 8, Buddharaksa Rd, Tambon Taibanmai, Amphur Muangsamutprakarn, Samutprakarn, 10280, Thailand, tel: 023880868, fax: 023872842 . I suggest the doubting Thomas's get the answers to their questions direct from the horse's mouth.

Post up if you contact them as I also want to hear what they have to say. Cheers guys.

Hi Münchhausen,

I´m new here, but I´ve looked in this forum a few time as a guest.

I´m a little surprised that Mrs. Panadda was such a helpful person on the motorshow.

We´ve contacted her a few times, because we planed a visit in the factory with 2 german journalist from the biggest european motorcycle magazine "MOTORRAD". And everything what we got everytime were fax-No. with no replies or answers like:" Sorry, nobody in, try later or our boss is in holidays.

I ride also a tiger CX-smart and i´m very satiesfied with it. Also we´re interessed in Boxers or Gusto-Rumbas. 250cc would be fantastic.

I will buy one at once!

[jdinasia]

That is a very ambitious lineup of models for a Thai company which is not well known in Thailand. Good luck to them, especially considering the increased competition.

Checking here, http://www.globelicsindia2006.org/Patarapo...tarakumnerd.pdf

I found that the Thai retail motorcycle market for 2003 amounted to

Honda 72%

Suzuki 13%

Yamaha 10%

Tiger 3%

Kawasaki 2%

I found no mention of JRD, Platinum, Ducati, Moto-Guzzi, or Harley knock-offs. Tiger and Kawasaki each had a miniscule share of the total market, but by now it may be slightly different. Not that I have seen more than a few Tigers in the last few years (or many Kawas other than the obvious KSR110). So, for Tiger to say they are going to field about 15 models this year, strains credulity. I am often mistaken, of course.

I think they only had 2 models in '04 when I bought mine. The Joker and the Smart both available in 120cc and 125cc. I looked at the CX when I was living in Phuket and honestly I thought well of it.

They seem to have focussed more upcountry than in the biggest cities and can often be found side by side with Suzuki's like in HuaHin.

[dave_boo]

These upgrades easily make the Boxer 250 RS the highest performance motorcycle made and sold in Thailand.

Erm.. Wouldnt Triumph have something to say about that ?!?!

Perhaps if they manufactured Triumphs in Thailand. It's a bit of weasely marketing wording, but assuming they get it out before the Ninja 250 goes on sale it's probably a true statement.

[Phil Conners]

Talking about the Ninja 250, how does the two compare (apart from the price where the Ninja is about double the price of the Boxer) ?

I know the Ninja is a twin cylinder while I think the Boxer is a single, right?

I'd assume the Ninja is more of a racer and the Boxer more of a utility bike.

Does anyone know how much power (HP/torque) each have?

Edited April 9, 2008 by Phil Conners

[dave_boo]

Talking about the Ninja 250, how does the two compare (apart from the price where the Ninja is about double the price of the Boxer) ?

I know the Ninja is a twin cylinder while I think the Boxer is a single, right?

I'd assume the Ninja is more of a racer and the Boxer more of a utility bike.

Does anyone know how much power (HP/torque) each have?

Well, IIRC, the 200 version of the Boxer makes in the low to mid 20's for horsepower. Torque I know nothing about. However, the Ninja has a claimed BHP of 36 HP and 16 lb-ft of torque. However, most of the figures I've seen suggest a RWHP of only 26, which seems that there's a whole bunch of driveline loss.

[Alter]

That 'rocket boy' 135 might be a giggle if priced right.. I can see that having visual appeal.

Yes, I totally agree with you LovinLOS,

that ROCKET BOY is very nice ..only the size makes me laugh a lot.

I saw it at the motorshow and asked the guys why they dont make a bigger bike that looks like that one?

They did not know what to answer.

The boxer is fine but it has still a bit of a retro look, while the Rocket Boy would make a real difference for Tiger Motorcycles.

Well...let's go for the boxer 250cc this time, which I am considering to purchase.

best to all.

[cresstt]

I just got this very interesting reply from Khun Piti:

Thank you very much for your interest in our Tiger Boxer 250 RS. This machine will be ready for the market around end of April due to the legal procedures for approval by the government agencies.

I'll update this thread as/when I know more about the test rides.

Phil any news on the bike ? Do you have the bore X stroke information ? From the brochure it looks like Tiger is still using the same Honda clone engine.

I got the 200Se boxer, gotta love the torque on the small frame.

[Richard-BKK]

@cresstt If Tiger is using a Honda clone engine, can you maybe specify which Honda engine they cloned?

[cresstt]

@cresstt If Tiger is using a Honda clone engine, can you maybe specify which Honda engine they cloned?

boxer is using the famous single cylinder sohc honda engines which is used on the CG(125), XR(185,200) and CRF (150,230) since the 70s with different stroke and bore, hence the displacements varieties. Currently most of these engines are manufactured in CHina by either Lifan or Zongshen. On my Boxer, there are a lot of ZS markings on the innards of the engine. So I believe TIger is using Honda-clones engine manufactured by Zongshen.

A lot of these honda-clone engines are making a comeback and used on dirt bikes. There are some being used on street bikes like the Zongshen GS200. Check out www.chinariders.net, a us based website with chinese dirt bikes majority equipped with these honda-clones.

Try to do a search using the keyword "zongshen" on ebay and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[Munchausen]

In reponse to HangDongRider...

It's Songkran, you can't rush the Thai's over this period, in case you're not familiar, it's basically where the whole country grinds to a halt while people travel to their home towns to spend time with their friends and family, and throw water around of course. I know Khun Piti and his staff are all on holiday, I suggest you try contacting after the festivities and I'm sure they will be more than helpful.

[Munchausen]

@cresstt If Tiger is using a Honda clone engine, can you maybe specify which Honda engine they cloned?

boxer is using the famous single cylinder sohc honda engines which is used on the CG(125), XR(185,200) and CRF (150,230) since the 70s with different stroke and bore, hence the displacements varieties. Currently most of these engines are manufactured in CHina by either Lifan or Zongshen. On my Boxer, there are a lot of ZS markings on the innards of the engine. So I believe TIger is using Honda-clones engine manufactured by Zongshen.

A lot of these honda-clone engines are making a comeback and used on dirt bikes. There are some being used on street bikes like the Zongshen GS200. Check out www.chinariders.net, a us based website with chinese dirt bikes majority equipped with these honda-clones.

Try to do a search using the keyword "zongshen" on ebay and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Interesting, everyone knows China has had a reputation for producing lower quality, copied lower priced goods but I believe that quality gap has closed significantly and now Chinese manufacturers are trying to shake that stigma. If China is 01 then the machines are already taking over.

[Richard-BKK]

@cresstt If Tiger is using a Honda clone engine, can you maybe specify which Honda engine they cloned?

boxer is using the famous single cylinder sohc honda engines which is used on the CG(125), XR(185,200) and CRF (150,230) since the 70s with different stroke and bore, hence the displacements varieties. Currently most of these engines are manufactured in CHina by either Lifan or Zongshen. On my Boxer, there are a lot of ZS markings on the innards of the engine. So I believe TIger is using Honda-clones engine manufactured by Zongshen.

A lot of these honda-clone engines are making a comeback and used on dirt bikes. There are some being used on street bikes like the Zongshen GS200. Check out www.chinariders.net, a us based website with chinese dirt bikes majority equipped with these honda-clones.

Try to do a search using the keyword "zongshen" on ebay and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I did a few quick checks with parts manuals I have from Honda and a Tiger Boxer 200cc engine, but I cannot find any parts that would be compatible (other then some screws or bolts). Maybe you can be a bit more specific with what is cloned by Tiger motorcycle for the boxer engine?

[Richard-BKK]

But if Zongshen is making (inner) engine pats for Tiger Motorcycle, I not see this as a negative development. Matter of fact, Zongshen is one of the five largest motorcycle manufacturers in China. They have partnerships with amongst others Harley Davidson and Piaggio. They also manufacture most of the engine parts for Harley, this Harley engines parts get send to Japan where the actual engine is assembled.

So Tiger engine parts which are manufactured alongside Harley parts can hardly be called of less quality....right?

[Dave the Dude]

But if Zongshen is making (inner) engine pats for Tiger Motorcycle, I not see this as a negative development. Matter of fact, Zongshen is one of the five largest motorcycle manufacturers in China. They have partnerships with amongst others Harley Davidson and Piaggio. They also manufacture most of the engine parts for Harley, this Harley engines parts get send to Japan where the actual engine is assembled.

So Tiger engine parts which are manufactured alongside Harley parts can hardly be called of less quality....right?

Right... but Hardley Drivableson parts then could be!!!

[Richard-BKK]

I agree, for some people it is hard, to hear that there American dream machines engine is manufactured in China. But I only can tell, the truth is sometimes hard.

If you search Google for "Zongshen Harley Davidson" you get around 536,000 hits, which probably all confirm the close relation between America's most loved motorcycle manufacturer and its Chinese partner. And how much is owned by the Chinese, all I know is that the good old American manufacturer creates all it financial reports in Chinese, and English of course. (but probably they only create Chinese reports for the fun of it) http://investor.harley-davidson.com/downlo...uct_Chinese.pdf Example of Chinese Harley financial information.

Personal I have no problem with Chinese making engine parts for my girl, she still rides like a ..... and sounds like she can quite on me any minute. But all that is why I have her, nothing compares to riding a Sportster.

[cresstt]

@cresstt If Tiger is using a Honda clone engine, can you maybe specify which Honda engine they cloned?

boxer is using the famous single cylinder sohc honda engines which is used on the CG(125), XR(185,200) and CRF (150,230) since the 70s with different stroke and bore, hence the displacements varieties. Currently most of these engines are manufactured in CHina by either Lifan or Zongshen. On my Boxer, there are a lot of ZS markings on the innards of the engine. So I believe TIger is using Honda-clones engine manufactured by Zongshen.

A lot of these honda-clone engines are making a comeback and used on dirt bikes. There are some being used on street bikes like the Zongshen GS200. Check out www.chinariders.net, a us based website with chinese dirt bikes majority equipped with these honda-clones.

Try to do a search using the keyword "zongshen" on ebay and you'll see what I'm talking about.

I did a few quick checks with parts manuals I have from Honda and a Tiger Boxer 200cc engine, but I cannot find any parts that would be compatible (other then some screws or bolts). Maybe you can be a bit more specific with what is cloned by Tiger motorcycle for the boxer engine?

its not 100% identical per say, the layout of the engines are the same. The differ in terms of bore and stroke. Majority parts are the same. lets take for example the oil filter under the right hand side of the crank cover (where the clutch plates are).. these oil filters are the same as the ones used on cgs and xrs. Also, timing chains are identical. A lot of the items are. You're not going to find the same HONDA part numbers if your browsing parts fiche for both Hondas and its clones. The crank and head gaskets are definitely not the same as they differ in terms of the bore X stroke. You have to do a visual inspection and compare them side by side in order to know that there are identical. Majority cranks on these engines are identical.

Also remember that Chinese do a incorporate a bit of innovation into their Honda-clone engine design. On some models with the same engine, they built a counter balancer into the engine, these engine will definitely have different parts because of the different components. Even within the Chinese manufactures who share the same engine blueprints, they have slightly different engine casing design and also different innards. The HOnda CRF engines are a different kind of beast. They're they latest much powerfully design of which were built using the XR, CG from the 80s and 90s. Lifan and ZS and a few other are using the blueprints from the same 80s and 90s engine design.

I've two Chinese motorcyles, both with the single cylinder engine honda clones. One is 150cc pushrod counter balanced and the other is the boxer 198cc sohc engine. Both engines looks the same but the innards differ slightly but i bet I can interchange the voltage rectifier, rotor winding, magneto, carbs , ig coil etc etc.

Edited April 17, 2008 by cresstt

[PeaceBlondie]

As for the Tiger Boxer designed by Cagiva, I would not buy it if there is a Honda 250 at roughly the same price.

As for similarities between a SOHC 200/250 designed in Italy and a Chinese clone of an old Honda design, if there is different valve system, bore, stroke, (crankshaft), balancers, etc., the fact that they have similar chains, rectifiers, etc., is literally just proprietary.

I hope Tiger in Thailand will increase its dealer network, focus on the few best market niches, build dependable models, etc. But I'll take a Honda CBF250 if it is in the same price range.

[cresstt]

HEY GUYS!!!!!!

Shall we resume talks about the Tiger BOXER 250cc?

The question remains whether this is a bike that it is going to take ove a big chunk of the honda-suzuki-yamaha bikes' market

or not.

The guys at Tiger Motorcycles are not out there only to copy and place in the market resonable bikes.

I know some of them and they are genuinely interested in developing the technology to

improve their bikes and also to finally convince the stubborn average Thai motorcyclists to shift and purchase a

Thai brand.

I myself will purchase one when it comes out in May 2008.

Who will go alongside?

Best to all.

Alter

i'd buy one. I can only imagine the extra 50cc displacement torque on a small and light frame.

I sure hope that the 250 dont have the same high vibration problem that the 200ccs' have.

250cc, stainless steel exhaust system, upside down forks bigger oil cooler.. wowww...I just cant wait. Let just hope its priced lower than the Jap bikes

hey richardbkkk hows your holding up ? A lot of things were messed up on mine because of the vibration. Latest victim is my crankcase copper gasket, oil was leaking from there because the 4 studs that hold the cylinder barrel were shook loose by the vibration.

Edited April 17, 2008 by cresstt

[apetley]

Does anyone know of a showroom where I can see one of the new 250 Boxers?

Have tried phoning Tiger direct on the number I have, 023 880 868 but it's never answered.

Does anyone have a different number?

Thanks, Andy.

[Phil Conners]

Good news: I just got the following mail from Tiger:

I have to apologize for the delay which was due to the approval process by the government authority and it was through last week. We are ready to sell now. How do you want us to proceed? We can bring the machine for your test ride any time.

I've replied that I think there is quite some interest for this bike here in Pattaya so I suggested she arranged a demo day with one of the local dealers. I also asked if they've fixed a price for it yet.

I'll keep y'all updated as I learn more.

[dave_boo]

Good news: I just got the following mail from Tiger:

I have to apologize for the delay which was due to the approval process by the government authority and it was through last week. We are ready to sell now. How do you want us to proceed? We can bring the machine for your test ride any time.

I've replied that I think there is quite some interest for this bike here in Pattaya so I suggested she arranged a demo day with one of the local dealers. I also asked if they've fixed a price for it yet.

I'll keep y'all updated as I learn more.

Excellent news. Luckily there's a Tiger dealership in Lan Sak, hopefully they'll have one for a test drive. If it impresses enough I may even get a companion bike for my CBR 150R.

[apetley]

Good news: I just got the following mail from Tiger:

I have to apologize for the delay which was due to the approval process by the government authority and it was through last week. We are ready to sell now. How do you want us to proceed? We can bring the machine for your test ride any time.

I've replied that I think there is quite some interest for this bike here in Pattaya so I suggested she arranged a demo day with one of the local dealers. I also asked if they've fixed a price for it yet.

I'll keep y'all updated as I learn more.

Any nearer that test ride PC?

[Phil Conners]

Not a word from them. I've sent them a couple of reminder email but so far they've been ignored. Considering getting a CB400 instead as I can't wait forever on something that might never arrive...

[Phil Conners]

Problem with the CBR is the sitting position. While still young-ish I'm too old for that bent over position for more than 5 minutes at the time