Trip Back Home

[jonniebkk]

I am currently back home in the San Francisco Bay Area. I thought to add to the running debate on the rising cost of living in LOS and how this compares with "back home," I would post about some of the prices I pay for things here to what they cost me when I am living in Thailand. For some background: When I first came to Thailand about a decade ago, everything seemed very inexpensive compared to the constantly rising prices Stateside. This was especially so for food and restaurants. I guess with the $ averaging around B 40 in those days it was. However, in recent years, for a variety of reasons, prices of groceries and restaurants have gone way up. The general price level for everything else the expatriate buys has gone up as well. On my travels back home now, prices no longer seem expensive compared to Thailand. An in some cases, sttarting to seem quite reasonable (with the exception of a few outlier costs). I am concluding more and more that at least for someone with income in Western currencies (especially dollars) living in LOS (and most of the rest of Asia too) is not the great bargain it once was.

For the comparisons, I have used a 32:1 dollar to baht rate. It's actually a bit lower (but too painful to think about so I am still in denial) so the Thai prices would actually be a little bit more expensive.

I have these observations so far:

Food

One can eat extremely economically in LOS, with its profusion of street vendors, inexpensive and good shophouse restaurants. There are also local chains like MK and Fuji that have good Asian food and very reasonable cost. There are also many WEstern food and drink outlets like Starbucks and Au Bon Pain to choose from. Finally, there are the Western high-end independant restaurants and pubs like Dubliner, Cheesa, etc. and in Pattya we have Brunos, Mata Hari, Casa Pascal and others. Therefore, whatever one's budget, there is usually a clean, tasty, and good value meal to be found.

This was one area that in the Bay Area used to seem really expensive compared to my trips to LOS. Now, it seems much more even. I don't know if this is because over the past decade business have become much more efficient and that the influx of millions of immigrants to California have kept labour costs in check but many restaurants and food here are cheaper than the same items in Thailand.

Pizza: Gourmet personal size pizza (enough for large man's appetite) with 2 toppings and free soda $ 6.00; Decent pizza in LOS about B 180-B 225 ($ 5.60-$ 7.00) and generally no free soda. So the price is the same or higher.

Sandwich: All the Subways are advertising $ 3.00 special for a reg. size sandwich or $ 5.00 for large. In LOS, the daily specials run B 69-B 79 and the large sizes B 170 ( $2.34-$ 5.31). So basically the same price. So even though here in Cal., where the min. hourly wage is around $ 8.00 PER HOUR vs. maybe that same rate PER DAY in LOS, you are paying the same price in a "low cost" country as you are in a "high cost" one.

Coffee: Ah, a nice cup or coffee or latte...cheaper in Thailand? Bay Area Starbucks "tall" (smallest size) cup Pike's Peak coffee is $ 1.55. This "small" is actually quite large...at least 1.5 times the size of even the "large" mug served at Au Bon Pain in Thailand. The cost of my morning mug at ABP Pattaya is B 55 ($ 1.72). So the smaller mug of morning coffee is more expensive in Thailand.

Wine: We all know the ridiculous prices of wine in LOS (and the reasons for them) but I will repeat it here again. I was in the wine section of a high-end grocery store and had a hard time seeing a Cabernet for more than $ 30. Most were $15-$20 from various well regarded California wineries. Go to the wine sectio of Villa Pattaya and anything decent from Kangaroo Land, Lion Land, Llama Land, or Kiwi Land is at least B3500-B4500 ($109-$140).

Nice Breakfast: To an American, nothing is more relaxing than a nice morning breakfast. I am sure it is the same for all peoples everywhere. Here, this might consist of a fluffy omelette, filled with bacon, guacamole, and sour cream or several thick slices of brioche bread French Toast. You cannot find an exact equivalent for this meal in Thailand so I will compare it to the full breakfasts served by the English/Irish pub establishments. This morning, I dined on the afore mentioned omelette, which came with 2 slices of wonderful sourdough bread and a pile of sauted potatoes and the American bottomless cup of coffee (I drank 3!). Price for meal/coffee was $7.50 and with tip $9.00. I was stuffed and the meal was great. Now, the price of the English breakfast mash-ups differs from place to place but many people seem to like the version at Dubliner in BKK. I believe at Dubliner, the Big Breakfast costs B350 ($11.00). This is 15-20% more expensive meal than my breakfast here in the supposedly super expensive San Francisco Bay Area.

Posh Restaurants: A good meal at a fine (but not celebrity cheif place) would cost about $25 per person (without wine). This would be for a soup/salad starter course and a meat/fish main. Dessert/coffee would add about $ 5.00 more. For similar meals in Pattaya at places like Brunos or Mata Hari, these meals cost me around B 1500 ($ 47.00) so again, there is really no price differential. The one plus in Thailand is that generally, the service is better. Tipping is also much cheaper because for this meal in Patters, I would tip B 100 ($ 3.12) where as here, so the staff don't spit in your food the next time you come, a tip of around 15% would be necessary or around $ 7.50!

Media

Newspaper: Local SF Chronicle newspaper is $ 1.00. Local Bangkok Post is B 50 or $ 1.50 (even though, if truth be told, it is the better paper). Again, the Thai paper is much more expensive than the one here. This comparison really hurts because when I first arrived in Bangers, the Post cost B 30 and the dollar was as high as 44 so this comparison has almost done a complete reversal on me.

Accommodation

Here is where Thailand can make up some points. Hotel accommodation costs still a really great value in Bangkok and Pattaya (or anywhere in the Kingdom) compared to here. I am staying in a central city downtown hotel that is convenient to everything. It is not a flash place but more a businessman's place. But not for the top execs but more the middle-managers. I have a 20sm room, with very small and plain bathroom, 19" CRT TV, no entertainment system of any kind (radio, DVD, CD player, nada), no safe, mini-bar, or refrig. And only the most basic of toiletries and it's costing me $200 per nite. (oh, I forgot to mention that being a "value" hotel, there staffing level would be considered a joke in Thailand and there is no bellboy service so in addition to having the pleasure of paying $ 200 a nite to stay here, I also got to shelp my bags to the room myself!) There is only the most basic of fitness facilities and a smallish pool. In Bangkok, this room would go for about B1500-B2000 at most or $47-$63. I have stayed in huge 90 sm suites in new plush hotels in the center of Bangkok, with spectacular views and great restaurants and pools for $ 130-$150 per nite. Having to pay $200 for this clean and comfortable but tiny place is a b!tch

Transportation

As I don't have a current driving license for California anymore, I am reliant on public transportation and taxis to get around during my stay. On the first morning after arrival, I didn't have the energy to study my bus maps and schedules so just went outside to pick-up a taxi to go to the afore mentioned breakfast. Wow...as I watched the meter tic ever upwards, that sure woke me up in a hurry. The ride was no more than 2 kilos at most and the cost was $8.00 (and being America, I tipped him $1.00) so the total was $9.00 to go 2 kilos. I would estimate that this same ride in a Bangkok taxi would cost no more than B 39 or maybe B 41 (or $ 1.28 at the higher price). Yes, taxis are still a major major bargain in Thailand.

As to buses, the standard fare is $ 1.75. If one needs to transfer to another route enroute, it's $ 2.00. I don't know what the cost of the aircon buses in Bangkok are these days but point-to-point must run no more than B 20 ($ .62) so again this form of transportation too is much cheaper than here.

These are just some examples of comparison prices I have seen from the last couple days. I will continue to add to this thread when I come across interesting price comparisons during my trip.

Edited May 13, 2008 by jonniebkk

[Beardog]

Jonnie,

How much was your airfare. I might be heading that way soon & was wondering how much it went up. Ecocomy.

Thanks...Good post!

[Ulysses G.]

Great post, but I still say Thailand is much cheaper if you are not living a mostly Western lifestyle (which I prefer to do, I admit). Rent is waay cheaper in LOS and where can you get a decent meal for $1.00 dollar in San Francisco? You have a huge choice of places here.

I eat vegetarian Thai often for health reasons, but between that and my rent it saves me a lot of money and I still live well.

[jfchandler]

I just bought a RT economy ticket (six months) on EVA... LA-BKK-LA for a total of $1,400... ticket, taxes and surcharge all included. The first segment to BKK is for early July...during the peak season. It was the best price I could find with them...

I priced Thai Air for the same trip... best price I could find for comparable segments was a couple hundred bucks higher....

I purchased the EVA ticket online on their web site prior to May 9, when they supposedly had a big price increase coming... But I haven't gone back to their web site since....to see how much things have changed...

[Spaniel]

Nice post although in different areas of the US prices will certanly vary. Also better check that Bangkok Post price. I'm on a yearly subscription and haven't bought a copy at a shop in quite a while but I just looked at todays paper and it says B25.

[jfchandler]

I agree with Ulysses....

The difference in rents...even for pretty comparable housing...is very significant... especially compared to my prior home in Los Angeles... Medical care also is far less expensive even for equal quality.

And...I'd argue..it's not the difference in living a mostly Western lifestyle... it's the difference in buying from Western places....

For example, yes, if you want to buy brewed coffee at Starbucks or eat meals at Tony Roma's, you're going to pay a premium... But in my neighborhood, you can buy brewed coffee at 7-11 or at Thai places on the street for very little. So it doesn't mean you have to pay more for coffee...it just means you have to choose where to buy it...

Same thing about breakfasts.... There are hotels around my neighborhood where they offer a very nice all you can eat buffet, including most of the western breakfast choices, for 150 to 200 baht... $5-$7 and little or no tip...

Of course, if I want to have kai jeaow (Thai omelette) or cooked to order lunch/dinner Thai dishes from the local street shops and stands on my soi, I'm paying the enormous cost of anywhere between 20 and 40 baht...(75 cents to $1.25, approx.)

I do agree, though, wine is a killer... Can't believe the prices for even so-so class wines here. So... give that up for the time being... I've learned to make a new friend of Thai whiskey and Coke...

Great post, but I still say Thailand is much cheaper if you are not living a mostly Western lifestyle (which I prefer to do, I admit). Rent is waay cheaper in LOS and where can you get a decent meal for $1.00 dollar in San Francisco? You have a huge choice of places here.

I eat vegetarian Thai often for health reasons, but between that and my rent it saves me a lot of money and I still live well.

[davejonesbkk]

Excellent post. I've been looking at prices here recently after I started to feel that I often seem to spend quite a lot on just day to day items such as food. Things like a carton of pineapple juice for 75 baht doesn't make sense when they grow here!!

I am going back to the UK today for the first time in 4 years and I am very interested to see what the prices will be....

[jimmym40]

Sure, items in Thailand are between 8-15 percent higher than a few year ago, but still the cost comparison to the US prices are insignificant. Go out for a steak dinner in the US for two, cost between 80-140 U.S. dollars (depending on drinks) AND, on top of that a $20-30 tip. The way I look at it, the money I spend on tipping in the US pays for the whole meal here in Thailand.

Another thought - what about the cost of footwear in the US compared to flip-flops or sandals here in Thailand.

And overall living costs: just list the costs of utilities in the US. Gas, water, electric, sewer, trash, phone - add these costs up and you can pay your whole months rent anywhere here in Thailand. Don't forget the costs of either home owners insurance (or rental insurance) and PROPERTY taxes. Do you have to pay any of that here in Thailand.

I think people here who complain about the costs and increase of prices really don't realize what it would cost them back in their home country.

Think about it.

[jonniebkk]

Nice post although in different areas of the US prices will certanly vary. Also better check that Bangkok Post price. I'm on a yearly subscription and haven't bought a copy at a shop in quite a while but I just looked at todays paper and it says B25.

You are right...I completely screwed up my newspaper comparison...still seriously whacked from the jet lag I guess as I also got the price of the Chronicle wrong It is only $ .50 not the $ 1.00 I stated!

Here is what I should have reported: San Francisco Chronicle is $ .50. Post is B 25 ($ .78) so it is 50% more expensive than the Chronicle. My comments re its quality I stick too, however.

[sinom]

Edit : Removed repeat comment re: BKK Post price

Edited May 14, 2008 by sinom

[jonniebkk]

Great post, but I still say Thailand is much cheaper if you are not living a mostly Western lifestyle (which I prefer to do, I admit). Rent is waay cheaper in LOS and where can you get a decent meal for $1.00 dollar in San Francisco? You have a huge choice of places here.

I eat vegetarian Thai often for health reasons, but between that and my rent it saves me a lot of money and I still live well.

I agree, as my posts on the Pattaya East Side restaurant thread have stated. As my op mentioned, Thailand has tremendous selection and range of prices. I intend to augment this thread a couple times during the trip with more thoughts on prices of things. My intention is not to say one place is necessarily cheaper than the other, I think LOS would still win that argument pretty handily...just that at least in my mind, it is not as cheap as it once was or would be be (and maybe never really was).

[jonniebkk]

Go out for a steak dinner in the US for two, cost between 80-140 U.S. dollars (depending on drinks) AND, on top of that a $20-30 tip.

I agree with your lower figure but not your higher figure of $ 140. Sure, there are expensive posh steakhouses where you could spend this kind of money on a meal for two AS there are comparable places in LOS where the cost would be the same, e.g., NY Steakhouse Marriott in Bangkok, Oriental Hotel restaurants in Bangkok, Manhattans in Pattaya. There are also places in both countries where a good meal in a comparable setting would be around $ 25 per person.

Where LOS stands out is like I and many others agree on, you can also get good meals (both Thai and farang) in the $ 1.10-$ 4.00 (B 35-B 125) range. This is much less common in US...but certainly not impossible at the higher end of the range.

[ralph444]

give us a rundown of the costs of fun in both places. this is where it isnt even funny to compare!

[LinkPopularity]

well, thanks, but it doesn't make any sense ... don't compare western food with western food ... I find those chains here ridiculous expensive, especially because it's low quality junk food ! (of course for an American that's the standard)

you want to compare food, then compare local food with local food, it's really ridiculous to set western food as the standard, the quality of a Thai meal is way higher (it's fresh, tasty and healthy) then American junk food ... it's JUNK food ...

also the newspaper; the bangkok post is 2,5 times more expensive then a Thai newspaper ...

so; US newspaper; 0.78 $ Thai newspaper; 0.03 $ that's your comparison !

[jonniebkk]

also the newspaper; the bangkok post is 2,5 times more expensive then a Thai newspaper ...

so; US newspaper; 0.78 $ Thai newspaper; 0.03 $ that's your comparison !

I will ignore your more inflammatory comments. However, I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of my op. I do not intend to argue that one place is cheaper than the other as I think it is generally well understood that LOS would win this argument. It is just to point out that many things are not as cheap as at least I once thought they would be. I also want to point out some interesting pricing on various items that that an expatriate would purchase in LOS and a comparable item here in the States. As a long-termer, I am also just comparing how much the prices of things have changed over the past decade with the changes of currency rates over that time and inflation in both countries.

The comparison of the Post at $ .78 and Thai Rath at $ .03, while true, would not be very relevant to most expatriates as very few would be in a position to read the Thai paper (though the pictures can be interesting at times). This thread is comparing items/costs an expatriate might typically buy.

[ralph444]

i understood op fine .

u owe op apologie to op.

entertaining stuf as usual!

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Johnnie

Interesting post keep it coming. Suggest you can just ignore the posters who just look for thing to argue with. I for one find it very interesting.

[Ulysses G.]

Great post, but I still say Thailand is much cheaper if you are not living a mostly Western lifestyle (which I prefer to do, I admit). Rent is waay cheaper in LOS and where can you get a decent meal for $1.00 dollar in San Francisco? You have a huge choice of places here.

I eat vegetarian Thai often for health reasons, but between that and my rent it saves me a lot of money and I still live well.

I agree, as my posts on the Pattaya East Side restaurant thread have stated. As my op mentioned, Thailand has tremendous selection and range of prices. I intend to augment this thread a couple times during the trip with more thoughts on prices of things. My intention is not to say one place is necessarily cheaper than the other, I think LOS would still win that argument pretty handily...just that at least in my mind, it is not as cheap as it once was or would be be (and maybe never really was).

You should have included the price for a super-burrito on Mission Street in SF.

Something like $3.50 for a giant, fresh, delicious burrito that is a thousand times better than anything in Thailand. Value for money, Mission Street wins hands down!

[Jai Dee]

Argumentative posts have been deleted from this thread.

Please keep the discussion civil.

[jonniebkk]

You should have included the price for a super-burrito on Mission Street in SF.

Something like $3.50 for a giant, fresh, delicious burrito that is a thousand times better than anything in Thailand. Value for money, Mission Street wins hands down!

It's on my list...I'm working down my "Great meals you can't get in Thailand" list. So far, I've had the great breakfast, tomorrow morning I'm going back for the brioche French toast. The pastrami on rye and salami on SF sour-dough roll is coming soon too. I have my fav. burrito jointand their burrito supreme is going down the hatch soon!. Only trouble is each day I have to let out my belt one more notch

This thread is really aimed for all us long-termers living in LOS...especially ones like me who don't get back home much and tend to forget the relative prices of things we are paying for in Thailand. Also, more and more, I'm seeing that "home" may not have been as bad as I thought it was and LOS not quite the "paradise" it's often made out to be

One interesting thing about the this post I did notice...I posted in the morning time back here and for most of the day here there were many views but no replies...but as soon as it turned daytime in LOS and all you guys woke up...there started to be replies. I think showing that guys here aren't really interested in the relative price of everyday transactions in LOS (but they jump all over the posts about the girls and action in LOS) but guys who actually live in LOS are more interested in practical matters like these costs so are interested in conversing about them

[onzestan]

burrito that is a thousand times better than anything in Thailand.

That's a very strong statement.

What if one doesn't like burrito's?

cheers

onzestan

[Losangels]

Here is what I should have reported: San Francisco Chronicle is $ .50. Post is B 25 ($ .78) so it is 50% more expensive than the Chronicle. My comments re its quality I stick too, however.

I can't agree with you more about the writing quality of San Francisco Chronicle vs BKK Post.

My wife brought me a copy of it from San Francisco last week and I was amazed with the writing quality and the stories they covered. I guess I am so used to reading BKK Post and gotten used to the poor "standard"

[jonniebkk]

That's a very strong statement.

What if one doesn't like burrito's?

Onzestan

There is certainly nothing sophisticated about burritos (not like the great Belgium cooking we get at Dao) but they are fairly healthy, filling, and inexpensive eats. I like mine basic...stewed pork,, rice, beans, guac, sour cream, hot sauce. However, there are some real gourmet varieties a some stands that might even tempt the sophisticated palates of Continental Europeans

[thaiclan]

I just returned from the UK and for the first time in 6 years of visits back there I returned with more stuff than I arrived with. I had to buy 2 extra suitcases to fit all the bargains in I bought from the highstreet.

Clothes and shoes especially are so cheap in the UK, there are many professional cheap shops keeping the prices very low and the quality much better than LOS. For instance a lycra mix T-shirt costs 299baht in Tesco in Thailand and the quality is less than average, on the UK high street same T-shirts (made in China are all 1.50 or 2 pounds each (90-120baht).

The typical Thai tie-died stuff like skirts and sarongs are priced at around 4-5pounds and quality bikinis are 8quid (thats 400baht which in LOS will buy you a poor quality swimsuit that will sag and bag very quickly)

I have found (In Pattaya) kids clothes to be pricey and low quality, back in the UK gorgeous summer dresses are 4 quid, t-shirts 2 quid and swimsuits 4 or 5 quid too! Hairbands, bags, accessories household items all so low nowadays.

I took a look through the ever famous Argos catalogue and the price of household goods and garden furniture in particular is astonishing. I purchased a close mesh type lounger from HomePro in Pattaya before I left, it cost 2,700baht (45pounds), in Argos the exact type material had a whole set - 2 loungers, side table, 4 chairs, large table AND parasol and stand for 89.99! not sure about shipping but I think if I was to kit out a new house again here in LOS I think Id seriously consider a container sent from UK.

The supermarkets offer much more choice of course and the prices were much lower for what we eat. In fairness however we do buy the expensive expat foods in Villa et al so maybe thats not a good comparison.

No mass exodus back to the UK however. Despite the cheap prices I couldnt believe how dirty, negative and phobic the place seemed!

[clausewitz]

Here is what I should have reported: San Francisco Chronicle is $ .50. Post is B 25 ($ .78) so it is 50% more expensive than the Chronicle. My comments re its quality I stick too, however.

I can't agree with you more about the writing quality of San Francisco Chronicle vs BKK Post.

My wife brought me a copy of it from San Francisco last week and I was amazed with the writing quality and the stories they covered. I guess I am so used to reading BKK Post and gotten used to the poor "standard"

The only thing that can be said in favor of the Bangkok post is that it is better, marginally, than the atrocious Nation. Still they are on the same level as The Japan Times and other expat papers availble in Asia.

I still read them at least a few times a week though

[dingdongrb]

well, thanks, but it doesn't make any sense ... don't compare western food with western food ... I find those chains here ridiculous expensive, especially because it's low quality junk food ! (of course for an American that's the standard)

you want to compare food, then compare local food with local food, it's really ridiculous to set western food as the standard, the quality of a Thai meal is way higher (it's fresh, tasty and healthy) then American junk food ... it's JUNK food ...

also the newspaper; the bangkok post is 2,5 times more expensive then a Thai newspaper ...

so; US newspaper; 0.78 $ Thai newspaper; 0.03 $ that's your comparison !

I agree... It's like comparing a Thai meal here in LOS vs. the local Thai restaurant where I lived in Colorado. Meal here for Thai food is 1/5th the cost (or less) than what some of the so called Thai restaurants were charging in Colorado. And the funny thing was, it barely tasted like traditional Thai food.

Now if you want some pricing from a NY restaurant try looking at this photo of a menu in Manhattan that I took just a few weeks back. I had to take the photo just to show my Thai friends what they were missing out on.. Heck I can eat here in the LOS all week long (or more) for the cost of a steak dinner in NYC.... I prefer LOS......

I also do not wish to sound so negative to the OP as it is an interesting view on things however it is relatively comparing 'apples' to 'oranges'... That is like going to Pratuman and haggle the cost of one of those painted umbrellas..... Then go to the USA, into a Pier One Imports store, and price one that is comparable.....

[a2396]

Great post, but I still say Thailand is much cheaper if you are not living a mostly Western lifestyle (which I prefer to do, I admit). Rent is waay cheaper in LOS and where can you get a decent meal for $1.00 dollar in San Francisco? You have a huge choice of places here.

I eat vegetarian Thai often for health reasons, but between that and my rent it saves me a lot of money and I still live well.

Agreed. Much of what the OP is comparing are items in the Farang lifestyle choices, which are not particularly cheap in Thailand or SE Asia in general. When you look at the cost of housing, insurance, medical costs and transportation, Thailand is the clear winner in lower cost. Certain electronics may be cheaper or the same in USA. As for the newspaper, I read many for free on the internet.

[a2396]

give us a rundown of the costs of fun in both places. this is where it isnt even funny to compare!

What kind of "fun" do you mean, pray tell? If you mean the dirty "S" word, that sort of "fun" might get you arrested and your life ruined in wonderful America.

[sunreader]

Writing from the UK:

Just had a nice Thai meal out at a restaurant with Thai wife = £75 no wine, she had J2O's I had 3 Singha's.

Large Singha beer bottle £4.

Makes me weep when I think how little I paid for the magnificant buffet at the Hilton Millenium in BKK earlier this year!

Other things:

Diesel fuel currently £1.25 a litre (ish)

Wife will only buy clothes from cheap places here like New Look and even I notice the prices are massively more expensive than at some of the markets in BKK.

Living in the USA seems cheap anyway so I wouldn't expect a huge price differential to Thailand with the exception of housing costs/rentals.

I currently rent one bedroom in a shared house in Surrey for £525pm.

I'd rather be living in LOS!

[jfchandler]

I think showing that guys here aren't really interested in the relative price of everyday transactions in LOS (but they jump all over the posts about the girls and action in LOS) but guys who actually live in LOS are more interested in practical matters like these costs so are interested in conversing about them

OK...so then...as a BKK resident...let me try to bridge the gap between those diverse points of view...

My question is... How much is a good Thai lady going for in the States these days, compared to the prices in LOS???