State Of Emergency Announced In Bangkok

[h90]

Does this mean that if he gives the Army the order to shoot, then they must obey?

yes, but if I would be Samak I would worry in which direction they shoot

[Tony Clifton]

He won't have to beg for an audience in Hua Hin next time, soon.

Remember the color of Thaksin's face last time he went?

[animatic]

from TOC

First Army Chief Denies PM Is Trying to Centralize Power

UPDATE : 5 September 2008

The First Army Area Commander denies the premier is trying to rip the Army of its authority by enacting two more State of Emergency decrees. The commander adds the Army has never considered the possibility of conducting a military coup to put an end to the current political crisis.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has issued two more State of Emergency decrees which effectively transfer executive power solely into the hands of the premier, including the power to mobilize the armed forces.

First Army Area Commander Lieutenant General Prayuth Chan-ocha denies the premier is trying to rip the armed forces of their power, citing that the Emergency Decree alone has already empowered PM Samak with the authority to command various laws and agencies to restore peace and order .

Lieutenant General Prayuth also adds he does not believe the two additional State of Emergency decrees are meant to prevent the Army from carrying out a military coup. He cited an earlier statement made by Army Commander-in-chief General Anupong Paochinda that the military has never considered the option of a coup to end the current conflict.

Commenting on unconfirmed reports that the military and police will file for additional arrest warrants on key leaders of the People’s Alliance for Democracy for violations of the Emergency Decree, Lieutenant General Prayuth says the reports aren’t true. He elaborates by saying that violators of the law will have to be prosecuted and the police will have to enforce the law while the military will not use force against the people of Thailand.

end quote

what does this mean? And where is Anupong and Samak?

Samak has just made himself the most powerful man in Thailand

That is correct as I understand it. While a PM in Thailand already has a great amount of power (more so than in many western countries), these edicts now give Samak complete authority.

Maybe paper authority from 'edicts',

but this is Thailand... Is that actual full control.

And is he IN control period, extreme stress does do amazing things to a normally stable mind.

When Dr. T. was on the ropes like this, he got more and more irrational and desperate sounding.

As the man said

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Very dangerous territory here.

And may just be what Dr. T. had in mind.

[hammered]

Does this mean that if he gives the Army the order to shoot, then they must obey?

Yes and if they do anything at all he hasnt ordered them to do, like leave barracks, it will be treason. It is a bit like coup in itself as the rest of thegovernment and parliament have very little power compared to what he now wields.

[animatic]

Does this mean that if he gives the Army the order to shoot, then they must obey?

Yes and if they do anything at all he hasnt ordered them to do, like leave barracks, it will be treason. It is a bit like coup in itself as the rest of the government and parliament have very little power compared to what he now wields.

And this was not what the Thai people voted for either.

[Plus]

No one listens to him. All this paper power is useless if neither the army nor the police are ready to back it up, and they told him to disappear.

[Moonrakers]

So in Samak has just effectively made himself dictator?

Where the hel_l is Anupong?

Where the hel_l is the 'beloved leader'?

I shall be stocking up on beer, food and sundries today in preparation for a weekend of NOT leaving my apartment.

[h90]

Does this mean that if he gives the Army the order to shoot, then they must obey?

Yes and if they do anything at all he hasnt ordered them to do, like leave barracks, it will be treason. It is a bit like coup in itself as the rest of thegovernment and parliament have very little power compared to what he now wields.

so with the emergency degree, on the paper Samak is a small Adolf by now.....

Good to know that it is a gentle person

Lets hope that the army does not play by the rules

[Old Man River]

So in Samak has just effectively made himself dictator?

Where the hel_l is Anupong?

Where the hel_l is the 'beloved leader'?

I shall be stocking up on beer, food and sundries today in preparation for a weekend of NOT leaving my apartment.

Confusion reigns. According to Bangkok Pundit (link below), Samak has not seized power and the cabinet has simply ratified the SoE which needed to happen within 3 days. TOC, of course, is saying something different. For those interested, please note that Bangkok Pundit includes a link to the English translation of the State of Emergency Act.

http://www.bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

[h90]

So in Samak has just effectively made himself dictator?

Where the hel_l is Anupong?

Where the hel_l is the 'beloved leader'?

I shall be stocking up on beer, food and sundries today in preparation for a weekend of NOT leaving my apartment.

I am a fool....I have food for 2 weeks here (in cans), but I forgot to stock the beer (and fill the fridge with ice in case there is no electric).

[hammered]

So in Samak has just effectively made himself dictator?

Where the hel_l is Anupong?

Where the hel_l is the 'beloved leader'?

I shall be stocking up on beer, food and sundries today in preparation for a weekend of NOT leaving my apartment.

Confusion reigns. According to Bangkok Pundit (link below), Samak has not seized power and the cabinet has simply ratified the SoE which needed to happen within 3 days. TOC, of course, is saying something different. For those interested, please note that Bangkok Pundit includes a link to the English translation of the State of Emergency Act.

http://www.bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

It may be that letting rumours swirl and assumptions be made while people are not available for comment and clarification is missing does actually work as a form of psychological warfare for some. If you want people to think Samak is making a mad power grab this would be the impression generated to date to day. Only time will tell but it is at least a very bad lack of information from government agencies. In an SoE calm is needed which means al changes and movements should be known and telegraphed.

[h90]

So in Samak has just effectively made himself dictator?

Where the hel_l is Anupong?

Where the hel_l is the 'beloved leader'?

I shall be stocking up on beer, food and sundries today in preparation for a weekend of NOT leaving my apartment.

Confusion reigns. According to Bangkok Pundit (link below), Samak has not seized power and the cabinet has simply ratified the SoE which needed to happen within 3 days. TOC, of course, is saying something different. For those interested, please note that Bangkok Pundit includes a link to the English translation of the State of Emergency Act.

http://www.bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

TOC is just speaking about it, but it seems everyone is confused at the moment.

[Tony Clifton]

Bang Kapi market, people are walking around shouting they are offering 500 baht to go to the PAD rally.

PAD leaders just asked for their picture.

Although they tore down their stage in Samut Prakan, DAAD is not done yet.

[h90]

Bang Kapi market, people are walking around shouting they are offering 500 baht to go to the PAD rally.

PAD leaders just asked for their picture.

Although they tore down their stage in Samut Prakan, DAAD is not done yet.

what does that mean?

[blaze]

So in Samak has just effectively made himself dictator?

Where the hel_l is Anupong?

Where the hel_l is the 'beloved leader'?

I shall be stocking up on beer, food and sundries today in preparation for a weekend of NOT leaving my apartment.

Confusion reigns. According to Bangkok Pundit (link below), Samak has not seized power and the cabinet has simply ratified the SoE which needed to happen within 3 days. TOC, of course, is saying something different. For those interested, please note that Bangkok Pundit includes a link to the English translation of the State of Emergency Act.

http://www.bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

It may be that letting rumours swirl and assumptions be made while people are not available for comment and clarification is missing does actually work as a form of psychological warfare for some. If you want people to think Samak is making a mad power grab this would be the impression generated to date to day. Only time will tell but it is at least a very bad lack of information from government agencies. In an SoE calm is needed which means al changes and movements should be known and telegraphed.

But what if those responsible for the 'telegraphing' would rather telegraph alarmist interpretations which would suggest that the anti-Christ has been unleashed? Surely it is up to the big media- and not Bangkok Pundit -to summarize the act and responsibly share that summary with the public.

[Thai at Heart]

So in Samak has just effectively made himself dictator?

Where the hel_l is Anupong?

Where the hel_l is the 'beloved leader'?

I shall be stocking up on beer, food and sundries today in preparation for a weekend of NOT leaving my apartment.

Confusion reigns. According to Bangkok Pundit (link below), Samak has not seized power and the cabinet has simply ratified the SoE which needed to happen within 3 days. TOC, of course, is saying something different. For those interested, please note that Bangkok Pundit includes a link to the English translation of the State of Emergency Act.

http://www.bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

It may be that letting rumours swirl and assumptions be made while people are not available for comment and clarification is missing does actually work as a form of psychological warfare for some. If you want people to think Samak is making a mad power grab this would be the impression generated to date to day. Only time will tell but it is at least a very bad lack of information from government agencies. In an SoE calm is needed which means al changes and movements should be known and telegraphed.

But what if those responsible for the 'telegraphing' would rather telegraph alarmist interpretations which would suggest that the anti-Christ has been unleashed? Surely it is up to the big media- and not Bangkok Pundit -to summarize the act and responsibly share that summary with the public.

Well after the Nation's debacle over Samak resigning who knows who to believe anymore.

[FreedomDude]

Referendum plan wins little support as Thai crisis drags

BANGKOK (AFP / 29 minutes ago) — Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej found little support Friday for his proposal to hold a referendum to resolve the stalemate with protesters who have occupied his offices for 11 days.

Samak has refused to step down or call snap elections, insisting that he would stay in office in order to defend democracy.

He has proposed holding a referendum to defuse the crisis, but critics slammed the plan, arguing that the balloting would only drag out the turmoil and risked sparking new violence like the clashes among rival protesters that left one of Samak's supporters dead early Tuesday.

Speaker of the Senate Prasobsook Boondech told reporters that organising a referendum would take at least one month.

"The problem of the country is immediate and needs to be resolved as quickly as possible," he said.

The opposition Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said on the website for the Thai Rath newspaper that the referendum would not resolve the stalemate.

He proposed that Samak dissolve parliament and call snap elections, something the premier has forcefully rejected.

Thailand's people are deeply divided by the protests, with one survey of 16 provinces showing 50 percent of respondents supported the movement.

Some things are worth fighting for. Haven't we gone overboard with this "avoid violence at all costs" idea? Yeah, violence sucks, but sometimes it's necessary. Are they gonna let the whole nation fall apart because they're afraid somebody might get hurt or die? Most free, democratic, stable nations in the world lost many lives in the pursuit of establishing their constitutional democracies.

They let the PAD sit in the months and months "'cause they were afraid of violence!"

They let the PAD take over the PM's office and govt house "cause they were afraid of violence!"

Now they don't want a referendum because it risks "sparking new violence".

Oh cry me a river!

Surround govt house with 50,000 unarmed soldiers, and starting from the outside of the crowd pick them up one by one and ship 'em away. Yeah, some fights might break out and somebody might even die! Is the chance of violence worth it? Yes it is.

oooooh, you MAN you!

Well, no reply for 4 hours. So I guess it's agreed. The police/army is over-sensitive to the possiblity of fighting. And maybe thats understandable given their bad reactions in the past couple 'o decades where they really did step over the line by just open firing on protesters.

Tear gas would certainly be acceptable. Last week when the mob tried to take over government police headquarters it just boggled my mind that people complained about the tear gas. Why did the police deny it? OF COURSE they should have used tear gas, for crying out loud!!!! What rational government in this world would NOT AT LEAST use tear gas if their police headquarters were in danger of being overrun???

[animatic]

If this rranslation of the SoE is correct,

he can install any one he likes in any controling position.

SoE Translation by Bangkok Pundit

The Prime Minister shall have the

power to appoint competent officials to perform duties under this Emergency Decree

and to carry out the powers and duties which [

b]have been transferred to the Prime Minister[/b] under paragraph one.

A person appointed as a competent

official shall be deemed to have the relevant powers under such law.

In this regard, the Prime Minister may

authorize any governmental agency or competent official under such law to continue to exercise existing functions, provided that the exercise of functions

shall be in accordance with the rules laid down by the Prime Minister.

He installs who he likes and deems them competent,

and then makes the rule that they run on...

Dictator in so many words.

He dictates his wishes and they become law.

[hammered]

So in Samak has just effectively made himself dictator?

Where the hel_l is Anupong?

Where the hel_l is the 'beloved leader'?

I shall be stocking up on beer, food and sundries today in preparation for a weekend of NOT leaving my apartment.

Confusion reigns. According to Bangkok Pundit (link below), Samak has not seized power and the cabinet has simply ratified the SoE which needed to happen within 3 days. TOC, of course, is saying something different. For those interested, please note that Bangkok Pundit includes a link to the English translation of the State of Emergency Act.

http://www.bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/

It may be that letting rumours swirl and assumptions be made while people are not available for comment and clarification is missing does actually work as a form of psychological warfare for some. If you want people to think Samak is making a mad power grab this would be the impression generated to date to day. Only time will tell but it is at least a very bad lack of information from government agencies. In an SoE calm is needed which means al changes and movements should be known and telegraphed.

But what if those responsible for the 'telegraphing' would rather telegraph alarmist interpretations which would suggest that the anti-Christ has been unleashed? Surely it is up to the big media- and not Bangkok Pundit -to summarize the act and responsibly share that summary with the public.

I may not have written this one too well but we are in agrement that was meant to be my point. Although admittedly the no-show of Anupong today does add spice

[animatic]

Bang Kapi market, people are walking around shouting they are offering 500 baht to go to the PAD rally.

PAD leaders just asked for their picture.

Although they tore down their stage in Samut Prakan, DAAD is not done yet.

what does that mean?

More PPP disinformation.

I would say people pretending to be PAD

are offering money,LOUDLY and indescriminately

in an effort to discredit PAD as a purchased mob.

That would explain why PAD asked for them to be identified.

[hammered]

If this rranslation of the SoE is correct,

he can install any one he likes in any controling position.

SoE Translation by Bangkok Pundit

The Prime Minister shall have the

power to appoint competent officials to perform duties under this Emergency Decree

and to carry out the powers and duties which [

b]have been transferred to the Prime Minister[/b] under paragraph one.

A person appointed as a competent

official shall be deemed to have the relevant powers under such law.

In this regard, the Prime Minister may

authorize any governmental agency or competent official under such law to continue to exercise existing functions, provided that the exercise of functions

shall be in accordance with the rules laid down by the Prime Minister.

He installs who he likes and deems them competent,

and then makes the rule that they run on...

Dictator in so many words.

He dictates his wishes and they become law.

In fairness SoE's the world over are not nice democratic things. They usually temporarily suspend rights and give certain dictatorial powers to certain or selected people.

I am not sure if there are actually time limits on the thai one or court requirements to extend

[nickh]

Senators want Samak to call a snap election

A group of 100 senators Friday suggested three options,

saying one of which, if implemented, could be a solution to end the political turmoil.

The options are:

http://nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/r...newsid=30082700

[h90]

from the nation:

Samak to consider revocation of state of emergency within a few days

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej said Friday he will consider within a few days whether to revoke the state of emergency.

Samak said he will never hold talks with People's Alliance for Democracy who led the occupation of the Government House.

[h90]

If this rranslation of the SoE is correct,

he can install any one he likes in any controling position.

SoE Translation by Bangkok Pundit

The Prime Minister shall have the

power to appoint competent officials to perform duties under this Emergency Decree

and to carry out the powers and duties which [

b]have been transferred to the Prime Minister[/b] under paragraph one.

A person appointed as a competent

official shall be deemed to have the relevant powers under such law.

In this regard, the Prime Minister may

authorize any governmental agency or competent official under such law to continue to exercise existing functions, provided that the exercise of functions

shall be in accordance with the rules laid down by the Prime Minister.

He installs who he likes and deems them competent,

and then makes the rule that they run on...

Dictator in so many words.

He dictates his wishes and they become law.

In fairness SoE's the world over are not nice democratic things. They usually temporarily suspend rights and give certain dictatorial powers to certain or selected people.

I am not sure if there are actually time limits on the thai one or court requirements to extend

I think time limit is 90 days in Thailand

SoE is surely not meant to solve political differences.

[Old Man River]

If this rranslation of the SoE is correct,

he can install any one he likes in any controling position.

SoE Translation by Bangkok Pundit

The Prime Minister shall have the

power to appoint competent officials to perform duties under this Emergency Decree

and to carry out the powers and duties which [

b]have been transferred to the Prime Minister[/b] under paragraph one.

A person appointed as a competent

official shall be deemed to have the relevant powers under such law.

In this regard, the Prime Minister may

authorize any governmental agency or competent official under such law to continue to exercise existing functions, provided that the exercise of functions

shall be in accordance with the rules laid down by the Prime Minister.

He installs who he likes and deems them competent,

and then makes the rule that they run on...

Dictator in so many words.

He dictates his wishes and they become law.

In fairness SoE's the world over are not nice democratic things. They usually temporarily suspend rights and give certain dictatorial powers to certain or selected people.

I am not sure if there are actually time limits on the thai one or court requirements to extend

I think time limit is 90 days in Thailand

SoE is surely not meant to solve political differences.

The time limit is 90 days subject to cabinet approval within the first 3 days. The SoE Act does allow one extension for an additional 90 days, again subject to cabinet approval.

[sjaak327]

Well, no reply for 4 hours. So I guess it's agreed. The police/army is over-sensitive to the possiblity of fighting. And maybe thats understandable given their bad reactions in the past couple 'o decades where they really did step over the line by just open firing on protesters.

Tear gas would certainly be acceptable. Last week when the mob tried to take over government police headquarters it just boggled my mind that people complained about the tear gas. Why did the police deny it? OF COURSE they should have used tear gas, for crying out loud!!!! What rational government in this world would NOT AT LEAST use tear gas if their police headquarters were in danger of being overrun???

Yeah I was confused as well, did seem like a perfectlly reasonable and justified response.

What I don't understand however, is the subsequent denial and bullshit about who used the teargas, as if they were wrong in using it.

The police have shown remarkable restraint in this whole episode.

[Maxi101]

Referendum plan wins little support as Thai crisis drags

BANGKOK (AFP / 29 minutes ago) — Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej found little support Friday for his proposal to hold a referendum to resolve the stalemate with protesters who have occupied his offices for 11 days.

Samak has refused to step down or call snap elections, insisting that he would stay in office in order to defend democracy.

He has proposed holding a referendum to defuse the crisis, but critics slammed the plan, arguing that the balloting would only drag out the turmoil and risked sparking new violence like the clashes among rival protesters that left one of Samak's supporters dead early Tuesday.

Speaker of the Senate Prasobsook Boondech told reporters that organising a referendum would take at least one month.

"The problem of the country is immediate and needs to be resolved as quickly as possible," he said.

The opposition Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said on the website for the Thai Rath newspaper that the referendum would not resolve the stalemate.

He proposed that Samak dissolve parliament and call snap elections, something the premier has forcefully rejected.

Thailand's people are deeply divided by the protests, with one survey of 16 provinces showing 50 percent of respondents supported the movement.

Some things are worth fighting for. Haven't we gone overboard with this "avoid violence at all costs" idea? Yeah, violence sucks, but sometimes it's necessary. Are they gonna let the whole nation fall apart because they're afraid somebody might get hurt or die? Most free, democratic, stable nations in the world lost many lives in the pursuit of establishing their constitutional democracies.

They let the PAD sit in the months and months "'cause they were afraid of violence!"

They let the PAD take over the PM's office and govt house "cause they were afraid of violence!"

Now they don't want a referendum because it risks "sparking new violence".

Oh cry me a river!

Surround govt house with 50,000 unarmed soldiers, and starting from the outside of the crowd pick them up one by one and ship 'em away. Yeah, some fights might break out and somebody might even die! Is the chance of violence worth it? Yes it is.

oooooh, you MAN you!

Well, no reply for 4 hours. So I guess it's agreed. The police/army is over-sensitive to the possiblity of fighting. And maybe thats understandable given their bad reactions in the past couple 'o decades where they really did step over the line by just open firing on protesters.

Tear gas would certainly be acceptable. Last week when the mob tried to take over government police headquarters it just boggled my mind that people complained about the tear gas. Why did the police deny it? OF COURSE they should have used tear gas, for crying out loud!!!! What rational government in this world would NOT AT LEAST use tear gas if their police headquarters were in danger of being overrun???

That idea with the referendum is indeed a smart move, as it shows clear the weak point in the PAD pattern and force them to show face and their true goals - to change the system to shut up the majority.

A referendum, would clearly show that PAD is the minority and that all the stupid farmers are not as stupid as Sondi and Co think they are, only because they vote who cares at least a little for them.

Of course if they vote like the PADs wish - they would be all very, very smart.

Uhhh ......

maxi

[h90]

If this rranslation of the SoE is correct,

he can install any one he likes in any controling position.

SoE Translation by Bangkok Pundit

The Prime Minister shall have the

power to appoint competent officials to perform duties under this Emergency Decree

and to carry out the powers and duties which [

b]have been transferred to the Prime Minister[/b] under paragraph one.

A person appointed as a competent

official shall be deemed to have the relevant powers under such law.

In this regard, the Prime Minister may

authorize any governmental agency or competent official under such law to continue to exercise existing functions, provided that the exercise of functions

shall be in accordance with the rules laid down by the Prime Minister.

He installs who he likes and deems them competent,

and then makes the rule that they run on...

Dictator in so many words.

He dictates his wishes and they become law.

In fairness SoE's the world over are not nice democratic things. They usually temporarily suspend rights and give certain dictatorial powers to certain or selected people.

I am not sure if there are actually time limits on the thai one or court requirements to extend

I think time limit is 90 days in Thailand

SoE is surely not meant to solve political differences.

The time limit is 90 days subject to cabinet approval within the first 3 days. The SoE Act does allow one extension for an additional 90 days, again subject to cabinet approval.

Sure PPP would have a solution for this as well...lifting the SoE and start it again 5 min later....

(like reelecting the PM if the court removes him)

[Thai at Heart]

n

[Old Man River]

Referendum plan wins little support as Thai crisis drags

BANGKOK (AFP / 29 minutes ago) — Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej found little support Friday for his proposal to hold a referendum to resolve the stalemate with protesters who have occupied his offices for 11 days.

Samak has refused to step down or call snap elections, insisting that he would stay in office in order to defend democracy.

He has proposed holding a referendum to defuse the crisis, but critics slammed the plan, arguing that the balloting would only drag out the turmoil and risked sparking new violence like the clashes among rival protesters that left one of Samak's supporters dead early Tuesday.

Speaker of the Senate Prasobsook Boondech told reporters that organising a referendum would take at least one month.

"The problem of the country is immediate and needs to be resolved as quickly as possible," he said.

The opposition Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva said on the website for the Thai Rath newspaper that the referendum would not resolve the stalemate.

He proposed that Samak dissolve parliament and call snap elections, something the premier has forcefully rejected.

Thailand's people are deeply divided by the protests, with one survey of 16 provinces showing 50 percent of respondents supported the movement.

Some things are worth fighting for. Haven't we gone overboard with this "avoid violence at all costs" idea? Yeah, violence sucks, but sometimes it's necessary. Are they gonna let the whole nation fall apart because they're afraid somebody might get hurt or die? Most free, democratic, stable nations in the world lost many lives in the pursuit of establishing their constitutional democracies.

They let the PAD sit in the months and months "'cause they were afraid of violence!"

They let the PAD take over the PM's office and govt house "cause they were afraid of violence!"

Now they don't want a referendum because it risks "sparking new violence".

Oh cry me a river!

Surround govt house with 50,000 unarmed soldiers, and starting from the outside of the crowd pick them up one by one and ship 'em away. Yeah, some fights might break out and somebody might even die! Is the chance of violence worth it? Yes it is.

oooooh, you MAN you!

Well, no reply for 4 hours. So I guess it's agreed. The police/army is over-sensitive to the possiblity of fighting. And maybe thats understandable given their bad reactions in the past couple 'o decades where they really did step over the line by just open firing on protesters.

Tear gas would certainly be acceptable. Last week when the mob tried to take over government police headquarters it just boggled my mind that people complained about the tear gas. Why did the police deny it? OF COURSE they should have used tear gas, for crying out loud!!!! What rational government in this world would NOT AT LEAST use tear gas if their police headquarters were in danger of being overrun???

That idea with the referendum is indeed a smart move, as it shows clear the weak point in the PAD pattern and force them to show face and their true goals - to change the system to shut up the majority.

A referendum, would clearly show that PAD is the minority and that all the stupid farmers are not as stupid as Sondi and Co think they are, only because they vote who cares at least a little for them.

Of course if they vote like the PADs wish - they would be all very, very smart.

Uhhh ......

maxi

Well, while I think the referendum is a smart move on his part as it puts off his need to do anything now and gives him a people's mandate vis a vis the PAD, I wouldn't go so far as to say it shows who is smart and who is stupid. Let's face it, this government has done little in the way of managing the country and has been focusing purely on political issues and survival. If people in the northeast think this is what a government should do, then yes by all means that is the way they should vote.