Some Thoughts On True's Adsl

[Firefoxx]

So far it's been my experience that some people have had good luck with True's ADSL service, speedwise (international sites). Some haven't been so lucky. Reports vary widely, which is strange.

I recently went to a friend's house to check on his True ADSL setup. He was using the 512k/256k home package. Line signal was very good. Tests to True's site reported full speed. Yet his international speed tests always hovered around 50kbits-150kbits (mcafee's site). This was tested during the day and the night (after midnight, in fact). Actual throughput for programs connecting to international sites confirmed the test results. His transfers gyrated wildly from 0k to 200k.

The weird part is that he also has the same setup at another house, in another soi about 3km away. It was installed about 2 months after the first. In that setup, his local test reported full speed. The international test was also good, around 450-500kbits, and fairly constant (at least not gyrating wildly).

Why the difference? Definitely not the phone line itself, since "local" speeds are good for both. This also rules out any problems at the CO and the computer.

My friend said something interesting: The share ratio (contention ratio) for home users is supposedly 50:1, which means that for the allocated international bandwidth for home users, you'll have it re-shared 50x. The theory here is that perhaps True allocates that international bandwidth on a CO basis. Let's say that his first setup (which is in the middle of a major housing area) has many ADSL users, and so the *international* bandwidth for that area's CO is shared to the max. Then perhaps his second installation (in a sparsely inhabited soi) has much fewer users, and so hasn't reached its share quota yet, resulting in much better international speeds.

This is all conjecture, since I have no idea how True configures its RADIUS servers to allocate bandwidth. However, I can't fathom any other reason for the speed discrepancy.

BTW, the share ratio for business and cafe users is supposedly 1:20. Since the cheap business package isn't all that much more expensive than the home package, maybe it's a better choice? My other friend uses the business package in Sathorn, amid tons of ADSL users, and his speeds are very good.

[lopburi3]

I suspect it has a lot to do with the luck of the draw (who are on the same combiner). If a number of them happen to be big downloaders you will probably not have much bandwidth. But also suspect there are many times when CAT pulls the wrong plug and someone has to get things back in order.

[Crushdepth]

I'd love to know why it wobbles so wildly. We have a connection through a different (non commercial) provider at work, and the main difference I notice while using it is that it is 'smooth' for want of a better word.

Even when I'm getting good average speeds with True when downloading a page with a lot of items, it behaves like a startled kangaroo rat on crack. Why does it fluctuate so much so quickly ?

[lopburi3]

I'd love to know why it wobbles so wildly. We have a connection through a different (non commercial) provider at work, and the main difference I notice while using it is that it is 'smooth' for want of a better word.

Even when I'm getting good average speeds with True when downloading a page with a lot of items, it behaves like a startled kangaroo rat on crack. Why does it fluctuate so much so quickly ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Page loading may be pulling information from different servers which could be in different locations so that might be one reason.

[The Coder]

I'm also one that tends to stay in the 100kbps range internationally even though I have the 1mbit package so I get about 1/10th of what I am paying for. On the other hand the upload speed is ALWAYS the full 512kbps as advertised. The most disappointing feature of true's adsl has to be the ping. What good is it to be able to load a web page in a millisecond second if you have to wait a half second before anything at all happens? To make matters worse, apparently true has some dog slow system looking up each time whether a site is censored or not which slows things down. The ping and packet loss is not good for internet gaming (sitting duck), listening to bangkok radio (frequent skips), or video conferencing (drops frames). My experience is the quality of true adsl is quite frankly garbage compared to what you expect in other countries. But they at least got the price right so I find it a viable option; as far as I know it is the only reasonably priced high speed unlimited package.

[Highwayman]

I've just started using the basic 128/256 package and so far so good. Speed does vary as everyone says, but the cost for me works out about the same as dial-up. According to Mcafee Speed Test l achieved the following speeds yesterday:

114.64 Kbps (14.33KBps) at 10am

196.40 Kbps (24.55KBps) at 8pm

257.76 Kbps (32.22KBps) at midnight

417.44 Kbps (52.18KBps) at 3am

Dial-up used to be anywhere from 2Kbps to 50Kbps, that's in an old house, old wiring, running a 20 metre extension lead.

Looking at the speed recorded in my download manager it is consistently 27/29 although you do get a few seconds at the start where it says 63. With dial-up it used to be 4/6.

Then perhaps his second installation (in a sparsely inhabited soi) has much fewer users, and so hasn't reached its share quota yet, resulting in much better international speeds.

Not many people round my way (past Rangsit) seem to have internet if those l talk to are any indication. Guess l'll tell anyone that asks that True is useless, maybe keep the number of users down.

[autonomous_unit]

I think there are a bunch of things going on, from my point of view in western Bangkok...

1) The proxies that True operates seem to be pretty bad, so if I forget to turn back on my proxy to the US I will notice international pages loading much slower instead of the way you would expect, where their local caching proxies should speed things up.

2) My actual observed international bandwidth fluctuates a lot for things besides web pages. I regularly see my whole 1 Mb/s download but other times it is as bad as using GPRS. This seems to follow daily and weekly cycles. When it is bad, I will see high loss rates if I try pinging US hosts, as you would expect from heavy contention.

3) Latency and routing is bad and varies. I have seen times when I could stream large files but interactive use was very poor. Depending on your application, your observed bandwidth will be limited by round-trip latency more than by line speed. The other day, I couldn't reach some US hosts at all while I could still get 1 Mb/s to others (and reach the missing ones from there).

4) Some of the above seems to change abruptly when my ADSL router gets issued a different address via DHCP and my active connections get broken, as if I am getting switched from good to bad equipment in True's network or the reverse.

[melus]

I agree with Firefox and lopburi above that your speed is dependent on the number of people in your DSLAM area who are logged on and how many of them are heavy bandwidth hoggers. I've also experienced the startled kangaroo rat on crack phenomenon when web browsing and again agree with lopburi's explanation. I have noticed, however, that generally the higher the last three digits of your IP address are, the lower the overall speed. This is probably the result of the first come, first served theory. If your connection is unstable, keep reconnecting until it improves. It doesn't cost anything.

[kabal1234]

4) Some of the above seems to change abruptly when my ADSL router gets issued a different address via DHCP and my active connections get broken, as if  I am getting switched from good to bad equipment in True's network or the reverse.

Good point, I've noticed that too. I regulary switch the router on and off until I get something useable. It makes a difference.

[Firefoxx]

Before the big move to "unlimited international" this year, I also experienced something very similar. I would something connect and get a totally different IP range. One range had fairly good and consistant speeds while the other was jerking around all over the place (and very slow overall). After the switch, however, I haven't experienced the phoenomenon.

For the last month, I've had numerous "brownouts" of the line, in which data would just stop coming. Sometimes only for international sites, sometimes for both local and international sites. Times range from a few minutes to half an hour. Very irritating for P2P transfers, especially since True also has the forced cut-off every 24 hours.

For people who have trouble resolving host names, I recommend manually setting the DNS. I had numerous DNS timeouts and changed the DNS to Samart's, and the timeouts have gone away.

[melus]

Let's keep this on top and keep this topic serious and informative.

[timonase]

Hi, to all true users, i been having similar dificulties, for 6 month now, does anyone know a good alternative, though. Price and speedwise.

thanks for answers

[marquess]

It doesn't cost anything.

Except the three baht for every time you connect. At the moment I am connecting once a day and staying on all day providing the connexion does not drop out(which it occasionally does), which has greatly reduced my phone bill compared to dial up.

[Firefoxx]

Actually, marquess, it doesn't cost three baht to connect ADSL. It doesn't cost anything, as stated. The fact of the matter is that once you turn on your ADSL modem, it automatically syncs with the DSLAM and remains connected (if possible). You actually get usable internet when you login. There are no connection fees involved, as it does not pass the POTS system.

My phone bill for the adsl line was (apart from rental) 0 baht.

[marquess]

Well you learn a new things every day!

[paulfr]

Well one way or another, I too am charged 3 Baht every time I connect to the net via True ADSL. I usually put my laptop in standby when not in use and have to reconnect when I take it live.

Other than keeping the machine on/active all day, is there a way to avoid this 3 Baht charge ? I would be surprised if there was.

[marquess]

Well I am using a Telecom Asia line, thus is must mean that I am being charged 3 baht each time I connect?

[lopburi3]

Well one way or another, I too am charged 3 Baht every time I connect to the net via True ADSL. I usually put my laptop in standby when not in use and have to reconnect when I take it live.

Other than keeping the machine on/active all day, is there a way to avoid this 3 Baht charge ? I would be surprised if there was.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you by any chance have your dial up modem connected to the telephone line? Could you be using that for your re-connect?

[WHITESAND]

With adsl can you still use the telephone when connected to the internet?

[lopburi3]

With adsl can you still use the telephone when connected to the internet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes.

[paulfr]

Do you by any chance have your dial up modem connected to the telephone line? Could you be using that for your re-connect?

--------------------------------------------

Well yes I do have it connected.

But it is off and in Network Connections is shown as Disconnected.

So I do not see that as the issue. Am I wrong ??

The ADSL connection dials on its own, altho I never hear any tones

and it connects in less than 2 seconds.

[lopburi3]

Do you by any chance have your dial up modem connected to the telephone line?  Could you be using that for your re-connect?

--------------------------------------------

Well yes I do have it connected.

But it is off and in Network Connections is shown as Disconnected.

So I do not see that as the issue. Am I wrong ??

The ADSL connection dials on its own, altho I never hear any tones

and it connects in less than 2 seconds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is nothing to dial with ADSL. As soon as your USB gets power it should be connected and then you just have to log on (but that will look like a dial up screen on your computer). Am just wondering if your computer is coming up with a 56k modem dial up either automatically or manually after you wake up your computer. You should only be getting charged for phone calls and that could include your 56k modem if a program is programed to connect automatically when you use it and the dial up takes place and is answered. Not sure if your computer would allow it or if that is the problem

What makes you think you are paying 3 baht each time you connect? Could they be phone calls you make? Or are you not using the phone line at all for telephone or fax?

What does your ADSL modem look like? Do you have an ADSL light? Is it off during your shutdown and then back on when you come back up?

[marquess]

What does your ADSL modem look like? Do you have an ADSL light? Is it off during your shutdown and then back on when you come back up?

For me the answer to the question is yes, the light does go off when the computer is off. As to the modem, it is a little black box, which has five green lights, with ASDL marked on it. Does this mean that I am not paying to connect to True?

[lopburi3]

What does your ADSL modem look like? Do you have an ADSL light? Is it off during your shutdown and then back on when you come back up?

For me the answer to the question is yes, the light does go off when the computer is off. As to the modem, it is a little black box, which has five green lights, with ASDL marked on it. Does this mean that I am not paying to connect to True?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The cost is all inclusive if using a TA phone line and believe plus 100 baht if using TOT. There should not be any phone call charge.

[paulfr]

Lopburi

Thanks for the info

Maybe the 100 or so baht bill I get is a fixed charge.

I thought it was 30days x 1 connect per day x 3 baht per connect.

Since I dont hear tones then maybe it is just a sign in for ID and PW

I will try to connect without the dialer screen

And yes I also have 5 lights on my Billion ADSL modem.

I am pretty sure the ADSL light goes out when I close the case and go to standby.

[Abandon]

There is no dialing out with True as stated - the line connects automatically. But there is the need to enter name and pass every time you reconnect (or every 24 hours).

The dialogue box for the name and pass entry is the same as the dial up box for dialing the internet - Hence the confusion!

So you are really just sending your name and password to TRUE along a line that has autoconnected already

There is no 3 baht charge for autoconnect or for nsending your name and pass.

The phone bill for the line is entirely seperate. There is a 100 baht/month rental for the line and also a minimum usage charge of another 100 baht, i.e. you should make at least 100 baht worth of phone calls per month. If you use less than 100 baht they can still charge you the 100 making your total bill 200 baht/month minimum. It is my experience however that in the occasional month where I didn't use the phone they did not charge the 100 baht minimum usage fee - only the 100 baht rental fee.

If you ever cancel your TRUE account you should realise that your phone line will not be cancelled unless you specify that it should be. This means that you can easily move to another ISP using the same phone line.

[lopburi3]

There is no dialing out with True as stated - the line connects automatically. But there is the need to enter name and pass every time you reconnect (or every 24 hours).

The dialogue box for the name and pass entry is the same as the dial up box for dialing the internet - Hence the confusion!

So you are really just sending your name and password to TRUE along a line that has autoconnected already

There is no 3 baht charge for autoconnect or for nsending your name and pass.

The phone bill for the line is entirely seperate. There is a 100 baht/month rental for the line and also a minimum usage charge of another 100 baht, i.e. you should make at least 100 baht worth of phone calls per month. If you use less than 100 baht they can still charge you the 100 making your total bill 200 baht/month minimum. It is my experience however that in the occasional month where I didn't use the phone they did not charge the 100 baht minimum usage fee - only the 100 baht rental fee.

If you ever cancel your TRUE account you should realise that your phone line will not be cancelled unless you specify that it should be. This means that you can easily move to another ISP using the same phone line.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no minimum usage fee. You are charged 100 baht per month for any telephone line as the basic charge and 3 baht for each call. There are other special plans available but the above 100 baht is used by most people and I suspect what you have.

[Billion]

Actually, marquess, it doesn't cost ADSL.  It doesn't cost anything, as stated.  The fact of the matter is that once you turn on your ADSL modem, it automatically syncs with the DSLAM and remains connected (if possible).  You actually get usable internet when you login.  There are no connection fees involved, as it does not pass the POTS system.

My phone bill for the adsl line was (apart from rental) 0 baht.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Three baht to connect is for dial up 56k modem connection only, sm....gu...

[mokwit]

eamail to TRUE

Once again I am experiencing problems with my ADSL connection that are causing problems with my ability tu use certain programs. I have checked on web boards and found that others are experiencing problems (and are VERY negative about TRUE ADSL service quality). The service seems to have started deteriorating again around end December.

WHAT IS AMAZING IS THAT I CAN CONNECT USING CSLOXINFO 56K DIAL UPAND NOT (REPEAT NOT!) HAVE THESE PROBLEMS.

Below I enclose a report from my broker in Hong Kong relating to a previous period of poor service where they found that 96% (29,263!!!!) of all connection problems to their server came from MY (IE TRUE) ISP. YES 29,263 of 30,236 disconnects from HUNDREDS IF NOT THOUSANDS OF CUSTOMERS ALL OVER THE WORLD WERE FROM TRUE. Just thought you might want some idea how far below international standards you are.

***********************************************************

Management asked that I take another look at your internet connection (as I did in August) to see if there is anything that we can help you with. They have also asked for us to investigate how many other customers are affected by the same type of disconnections that you are seeing.

Looking at the 19th, you logged in 11 different times. Additionally, we have taken a detailed look at the failure messages on the gateway that indicate loss of low-level keep-alive data. In the 24 hour period surrounding the 19th, your connection lapsed in the transmission of these messages over 29,000 times, while remarkably only losing the socket 11 times (being disconnected). That is pretty good, considering the amount of transmission errors that took place. At least one of these resets was due to the ISP resetting your IP address.

The traces that operations has been doing from the gateway to your ISP has steadily shown a large increase in latency and packet loss well into the asianet.co.th system, indicating that your internet connection is inherently at fault for your TWS disconnections. In our traceroutes from Hong Kong to you, we see a heavy packet loss between the routers 203.144.144.29 and 203.144.143.90; these both appear to be in asianet’s network.

Looking at all failure messages from customers connected to the Hong Kong gateway during the same period, 29,263 of 30,236 were from your ISP, which accounts for over 96% of the connectivity issues. Being that you’ve seen problems staying connected stretching back to August with this provider, I would definitely recommend looking for a different primary internet connection, as less than 4% of packet loss comes from every other world provider that has connected to the Hong Kong gateway.

Additionally, the WebTrader interface is still available and doesn’t rely on a socket to stay connected, much like other broker’s web interfaces.

I hope this helps.

-Ernie

****************************************************************

Enough is enough. if you want to complain here are the email of TRUE MD [email protected] and the MD os Asianet [email protected] Tell them your problems and how TRUE compares to ISP's in your home country. The big problem I am facing is disconnects from rerouting via 26 router hops (13 with CSLoxinfo and packet loss. It seems that the data stream has frequent interruptions. I suspect that they are 'queing' or rerouting packets in order to keep bandwith usage below a threshold hence the interrupts - if anyone can shed any lght on how and why these interrupts are occuring and any solution it would be appreciated.