The Newly Painted Bike Lane Around The Moat

[richoz]

I take it the newly painted white parallel lines around the inner moat road are supposed to be a dedicated bike lane.

I wonder which member of the brains trust decided on doing this. What an absurd waste of money.

As I rode around the moat today, cars where parked in it all along the way.

Thing like that only work in places where people actually respect the law ....

[ChiangMaiFurnishedApts]

" What an absurd waste of money "

I noticed it last night as I was parking in the city and the first thought that came to mind was that the cops would soon be busting cars for driving in it or parking in it and motorcycles for not riding in it.

Not a waste of money, in fact they might be thinking the opposite.

[Ajarn]

People here do respect the law, if they understand it. I also noticed today that I was parked in the bike lane. I knew it by guessing. It does seem like a stupid idea to me, too. There isn't any place to put a bike lane without infringing on parking- sorely need parking in my opinion, much more needed than a bike lane.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Ajarn

[Ulysses G.]

The last time they got serious about bicycle lanes, the bicycles were supposed to ride against the traffic flow, rather than with it, and of couse all the regular vehicles completely ignored it and drove straight at the bicycle riders as if they were not there.

TIT !

Edited September 15, 2008 by Ulysses G.

[Mapguy]

The last time they got serious about bicycle lanes, the bicycles were supposed to ride against the traffic flow, rather than with it, and of couse all the regular vehicles completely ignored it and drove straight at the bicycle riders as if they were not there.

TIT !

Well, not just TIT!

Some will be familiar with cities which are much more suited in terms of road infrastructure. One is Portland, Oregon, which has made great efforts to make the city suitable for biking. However, there is still a big hassle in Portland over the effort generated in the past year by the death of two cyclists.

Otherwise, due to really lousy road infrastructure here as well as traditional driving customs, the new bike lanes will probably never work. And it is too bad. Unless --- gasp!, gasp! --- a circular light rail is built around the moat with municipal parking lots distributed along the periphery. But then, that's not the whole answer, either, by far.

There are some "draconian" solutions in some cities, some much more physically suitable for accommodating bicycles. Broadway in New York City is a very, very recent example. And New York is not a new city to experiment: I remember roller skating lanes (Honest!) on 5th Avenue during commuter hours in the 1980s! Bicycles have become very popular in the last year or so in Paris. Other cities simply close off part of their area, sometimes more than on just weekends.

TIT? I don't think so. This is a tough problem for lots of places. The current resolve, however, is indeed unfortunate because of the rise in the cost of paint!

[rishi]

My tip would be that they should master walking before attempting such advanced stuff as bicycling. Step one: make it possible to take a walk from one end of the considered stretch to the other without having to get out in the middle of the traffic every 30 meter to get around dinner tables and other obstacles. Usually the associated kitchen is situated where the bicycle lane supposedly would be going. Imagine how far out into the motortraffic bicyclist would have to go to get around pedistrians trying to get around taxis standing on the outer side of food stalls serving tables blocking the sidewalk.

Hey, maybe that's a solution: make the bicycle lanes on the outer side of all traffic (and maybe add some appropriately sized Spanish nails to the lane marking).

[sendbaht]

I was on the new bicycle trail yesterday on my new bicycle for Top Gear. (plugged them because they were so nice to me) It worked well on some sides of the moat. It's a step in the right direction. Thanks CM.

[T_Dog]

Bike lanes in Chiang Mai is a fantastic idea as more and more people are riding bicycles here. A big thanks to the Chiang Mai municipality as well as to the bike clubs and individuals that made it happen. Much of this is due to the work of a highly respected retired professor from CMU. I used to live in Portland and the bike lanes worked out very well there. There were some problems due to opinionated cyclists and like-minded vehicle drivers which made the news, but for the most part, cars and bikes integrated extremely well there which was helped by marked bike lanes.

To learn more about the bike lanes, show up at Tapae Gate at 7 AM on any Sunday for a short ride around the city.

[calibanjr.]

People here do respect the law, if they understand it. I also noticed today that I was parked in the bike lane. I knew it by guessing. It does seem like a stupid idea to me, too. There isn't any place to put a bike lane without infringing on parking- sorely need parking in my opinion, much more needed than a bike lane.

If by "understand" a law, you really mean it doesn't interfere with their current activity or inconvenience them, then yes, I agree, that law they will respect. Laws that don't meet those criteria, not so much. Now that's true to some degree almost everywhere, but here, ESPECIALLY when it comes to vehicles and traffic regulation, it's pretty blatant. I'm used to watching out for unlicensed youths and licensed adults speeding at me the wrong way on major thoroughfares and minor alleys, else I'd have been in more accidents than I've already had. But, I must say, it's more of the charm of the place, keeps things interesting.

[greedisgood]

I was sitting at a vendor last night, around Thapae, having dinner (10pm) when they were working on them.

As the guy was putting them down, 2 minutes later, a pick up truck that held another employee drove right over

the new lines and screwed them up :-(

Will drivers pay attention to them. I don't think so. And I will not risk my life, when riding my bike, to find out. Just MHO

[wrbc]

Bike lanes in Chiang Mai is a fantastic idea as more and more people are riding bicycles here. A big thanks to the Chiang Mai municipality as well as to the bike clubs and individuals that made it happen. Much of this is due to the work of a highly respected retired professor from CMU. I used to live in Portland and the bike lanes worked out very well there. There were some problems due to opinionated cyclists and like-minded vehicle drivers which made the news, but for the most part, cars and bikes integrated extremely well there which was helped by marked bike lanes.

To learn more about the bike lanes, show up at Tapae Gate at 7 AM on any Sunday for a short ride around the city.

Edited September 20, 2008 by wrbc

[wrbc]

Bike lanes in Chiang Mai is a fantastic idea as more and more people are riding bicycles here. A big thanks to the Chiang Mai municipality as well as to the bike clubs and individuals that made it happen. Much of this is due to the work of a highly respected retired professor from CMU. I used to live in Portland and the bike lanes worked out very well there. There were some problems due to opinionated cyclists and like-minded vehicle drivers which made the news, but for the most part, cars and bikes integrated extremely well there which was helped by marked bike lanes.

To learn more about the bike lanes, show up at Tapae Gate at 7 AM on any Sunday for a short ride around the city.

i will be returning to cm for another 4 months the end of october and would like to cycle with a group. i do 8000 km per year in canada. but when i came last year, i cycled only twice on doi suthep and once out past the 700 year stadium, both times with a guide. but i have two fears cycling in cm. the first is the traffic. the second is joining a group, because i cycle at only 10 to 15 mph, for the most part, and fear holding back any group with racer hormones. any recommendations? thanks. if no one helps me, i guess i will just have to walk another 10 hours a day, and take another 12,000 pictures of wats. not that that is a bad thing! :-)

[raybona]

i think that if someone wants to complaine about traffic rules- and behaviour in Chiang Mai, you should try India!!

Driving my car for 2+ weeks over here i find it very easy and polite. Most of the drivers wait to let you in or out even if your in the wrong lane.

For me it looks like 95% of the drivers follow the rules compaired to 0,0001% in India. Smooth and no horns!

Looks a lot like European driving apart from the fact that the Europeans are much more agressive!

[T_Dog]

Bike lanes in Chiang Mai is a fantastic idea as more and more people are riding bicycles here. A big thanks to the Chiang Mai municipality as well as to the bike clubs and individuals that made it happen. Much of this is due to the work of a highly respected retired professor from CMU. I used to live in Portland and the bike lanes worked out very well there. There were some problems due to opinionated cyclists and like-minded vehicle drivers which made the news, but for the most part, cars and bikes integrated extremely well there which was helped by marked bike lanes.

To learn more about the bike lanes, show up at Tapae Gate at 7 AM on any Sunday for a short ride around the city.

i will be returning to cm for another 4 months the end of october and would like to cycle with a group. i do 8000 km per year in canada. but when i came last year, i cycled only twice on doi suthep and once out past the 700 year stadium, both times with a guide. but i have two fears cycling in cm. the first is the traffic. the second is joining a group, because i cycle at only 10 to 15 mph, for the most part, and fear holding back any group with racer hormones. any recommendations? thanks. if no one helps me, i guess i will just have to walk another 10 hours a day, and take another 12,000 pictures of wats. not that that is a bad thing! :-)

WRBC: You are more than welcome to join the Chiang Mai Sunday Cycling Club, and I would also be more than happy to show you some of favorite rides in Chiang Mai myself. (Lots of quiet lanes, national forests, and unique locations.) Also, the cycling club is more of an exploring/social group, so you would have no problem keeping up. You would see parts of Chiang Mai that you would never see as a tourist or long term resident that doesn't get out of the house or bar. (The ride schedule is at www.cmcycling.org) Last year we had about 400 riders that rode to Doi Suthep to celebrate the King's Birthday. Usually the group is between 40 and 100.

Regarding traffic, I feel a lot safer riding my bicycle than riding my motorcycle. Cars and motorbikes generally respect bicycles more, and you can also process all the traffic easier on a bike than on a motorcycle because you are going slower. Send me a PM when you get to Chiang Mai and we can get together for a ride.

[Ajarn]

People here do respect the law, if they understand it. I also noticed today that I was parked in the bike lane. I knew it by guessing. It does seem like a stupid idea to me, too. There isn't any place to put a bike lane without infringing on parking- sorely need parking in my opinion, much more needed than a bike lane.

If by "understand" a law, you really mean it doesn't interfere with their current activity or inconvenience them, then yes, I agree, that law they will respect. Laws that don't meet those criteria, not so much. Now that's true to some degree almost everywhere, but here, ESPECIALLY when it comes to vehicles and traffic regulation, it's pretty blatant. I'm used to watching out for unlicensed youths and licensed adults speeding at me the wrong way on major thoroughfares and minor alleys, else I'd have been in more accidents than I've already had. But, I must say, it's more of the charm of the place, keeps things interesting.

This is one of my favorite reasons for living here. If a law doesn't make much sense, i.e., stoplights or stopsigns in the middle of nowhere, then why bother with it? The bike lane occupies the only space in front of a business to park, and with no bicycles using it, then why bother with no parking? The cops don't care, so why should we?

[dingdongrb]

All I have to say is 'lines or no lines when have you ever known a Thai to obey the lines and stay within them? Very rarely! They make a single lane road into a three lane, they straddle the line when there are two lanes, they drive in the opposite direction of traffic, and they will pass on a corner. These are only some of the many things observed as I'm sure you're all well aware. But why paint the bicycle lane lines when they are obviously going to be ignored or even known what they are for.

[SomchaiCNX]

Nothing wrong with these painted bike lanes.

The problem is the attitude of (in order of bad behavior) the songtaews, 6 wheelers, company owned cars and last but not least some nasty Farrang who don't give a f...ck even if you cycle with children and if you give clear hand signals. If you read about a cyclist (farrang) who killed a farrang (or any in the above mentioned group) because of road rage it will be me. One would ask the immigration to become stricter and deport these brain dead "what ever you want to call them". In general Thai (except those mentioned and those with big wellknown German cars) are very nice to cyclists. Some of them learned their lesson already not to ignore cyclists, handle bars and shoe's with SPD can make nasty marks (that need paint jobs) while in contact with another road user (car). And good bicycle parts are not as cheap as they think. A red cab tried to kill me twice in less than 100 meter (to pick up customers) and than a third time because I told him he was an idiot. After 12 years of cycling in Chiang Mai it is normal to adjust a little to the local cycling conditions, No? The only exception is when I'm on my recumbent, they slow down and give me their thumbs up. "Warning" cyclists have to follow the rules as well, don't understand me wrong.

Defensive cycling is the way to go in Chiang Mai. Different road user should learn how to use the same raod at the same moment. I'm not in favor for expensive road lanes that never will be used, like the ones you had on Rattanakosin road. Next time we have bad air in Chiang Mai think about your bike.

[bunta71]

I also used to coulda been a bicyclist in my former lives. An observation is that the road rage comes out when a bicyclist gets the attitude that they should have the God-given right to impede vehicular traffic by driving at a speed much slower than the cars,etc. in a lane designed for speeds higher than bicycles can go. Many times in other locales these characters have a safer place to ride right beside them. i.e. unused sidewalks with expensive roll curbs, bike lanes, edges of the road that are suitable. Not gravelly or dangerous roadsides. Just a few bicyclists do this but the ones that do have little common sense or regard for the thirty cars creeping along behind them getting pissed off at all bike riders....As far as bike lanes here go I believe it is a waste of paint as all painted lanes here are. Eventually though evolution will catch up with the expert local drivers and that light bulb will go off much more frequently

[papajohn]

Hi folks, good forum discussion, I do not ride a bicycle, to old and lazy, but I respect and admire those that do. I see them pass by my place every Sunday morning in their colorful and smart attire. My take on the new bike lanes is that it is a good thing. CM is a great city for biking around. My feeling is that it is better for the tourist than renting a motor bike. We know how dangerous it can be for a tourist on a motorbike. I was in Luang Prabang , Laos last year and you cannot rent a motor bike there only bicycles.

It is a hilly city so I got some needed but unwanted excersize. CM is flat and makes for good touring on a bike. I think the bike lane shows progress from City Hall. It will take time for the locals to get used to it but in the long run it is good for CM. Chok Dee.

[wrbc]

Bike lanes in Chiang Mai is a fantastic idea as more and more people are riding bicycles here. A big thanks to the Chiang Mai municipality as well as to the bike clubs and individuals that made it happen. Much of this is due to the work of a highly respected retired professor from CMU. I used to live in Portland and the bike lanes worked out very well there. There were some problems due to opinionated cyclists and like-minded vehicle drivers which made the news, but for the most part, cars and bikes integrated extremely well there which was helped by marked bike lanes.

To learn more about the bike lanes, show up at Tapae Gate at 7 AM on any Sunday for a short ride around the city.

i will be returning to cm for another 4 months the end of october and would like to cycle with a group. i do 8000 km per year in canada. but when i came last year, i cycled only twice on doi suthep and once out past the 700 year stadium, both times with a guide. but i have two fears cycling in cm. the first is the traffic. the second is joining a group, because i cycle at only 10 to 15 mph, for the most part, and fear holding back any group with racer hormones. any recommendations? thanks. if no one helps me, i guess i will just have to walk another 10 hours a day, and take another 12,000 pictures of wats. not that that is a bad thing! :-)

WRBC: You are more than welcome to join the Chiang Mai Sunday Cycling Club, and I would also be more than happy to show you some of favorite rides in Chiang Mai myself. (Lots of quiet lanes, national forests, and unique locations.) Also, the cycling club is more of an exploring/social group, so you would have no problem keeping up. You would see parts of Chiang Mai that you would never see as a tourist or long term resident that doesn't get out of the house or bar. (The ride schedule is at www.cmcycling.org) Last year we had about 400 riders that rode to Doi Suthep to celebrate the King's Birthday. Usually the group is between 40 and 100.

Regarding traffic, I feel a lot safer riding my bicycle than riding my motorcycle. Cars and motorbikes generally respect bicycles more, and you can also process all the traffic easier on a bike than on a motorcycle because you are going slower. Send me a PM when you get to Chiang Mai and we can get together for a ride.

thanks! you mean there are 400 people in chiang mai that can pedal up that hill?!! low gears must be more common in thailand than i thought! :-) i will be staying at the mandala house, which is near thapae gate. is it safe to bring or buy a bike and keep it outside, in case bringing it in is not allowed?

[T_Dog]

There are a lot more than 400! Every week day dozens of people climb to Doi Suthep in the morning for excercise. Last week I counted about 40 headed downhill as I was going up at 6:30 AM. Local folks like to ride early before work when it is cool. One of my riding friends is a policeman and he rides up there EVERY DAY! Not something I could do that is for sure.

Regarding leaving your bike outside, don't do it. Even locks are not good enough. I have a riding friend that had her bike stolen at 2 in the afternoon at a busy market, and she was never out of sight of her bike. The CMU campus has bike thefts regularly. Bike theft is common in Chiang Mai so be careful.

[Bill97]

i think that if someone wants to complaine about traffic rules- and behaviour in Chiang Mai, you should try India!!

Ray, I never thought we would agree on anything but you proved me wrong.

Great idea, have all the people who complain go to India for a few months or a year and they just might learn how lucky they are to be able to be in Chiang Mai and stop their sniveling.

[cmsally]

A quick look at that bicycle lane and I made the following deduction - feel free to disagree.

When the guys painted it, some patches were car free so the bicycle lane takes up parking space and presumably disappears when cars park there.

Along other stretches they came along with their paint and cars were already parked there. Hum, how to solve this problem; paint (around the cars) a bicycle lane into half of one of the car lanes (effectively in the middle of the street).

Only a quick look, but that is how it seems to be.

[Steve2UK]

As an occasional cyclist, I welcome any development that encourages and (maybe) makes it easier for cycling - it's greener and healthier (assuming you don't end up under a pick-up/songthaew/Fortuner). Having said that, I have seen cycle lanes spread in London over the last 15-odd years and they still don't work as they could/should - even when incorporated into bus lanes with CCTV and heavy penalties to enforce them. Only the very few which have a raised outer kerb to physically protect the cycle lane are really effective - and there's zero chance of seeing that here.

As a frequent motorist, I really wish that the shops renting out the bikes would also give the message to their carefree customers that meandering along on a busy road at little more than strolling speed 2 and even 3 abreast so they can chat to each other.............. is really not a good idea.

[Bill97]

The last time they got serious about bicycle lanes, the bicycles were supposed to ride against the traffic flow, rather than with it, and of couse all the regular vehicles completely ignored it and drove straight at the bicycle riders as if they were not there.

TIT !

You call that getting serious. Love your humor UG.

[idrankwhat]

I was driving my daughter to school one morning and noticed 4 police trucks loaded with wheel 'boots' and chains and quite a few police officers with motorcycles 'booting' cars and chaining motorcycles parked in the bike lane. I noticed one Thai man that was in the process of having his truck booted just throw his hands up in the air and laugh like he didn't know but now he understood. Since that day I haven't noticed many cars parked in the lane just motorcycles but they never seem to respect anything including other motorcycles.

My wife made mention that the city had on more than one occasion considered closing off the mote area to everything but red trucks, tuk-tuks and bicycles to prevent the parking problem and congestion in the city. As far as I'm concerned that would only create a parking problem outside of the mote area and how can you tell people who live in the mote area they can't take their cars in. I would say that is the stupidest thing I ever heard and it could never happen in my country but the truth is the village I lived in the the USA was a tourist town and a famous A** hole bought most of the village and shut down the main road from 10:00 AM to 6:00 PM 7 days a week this was the big motivator for me to move to Thailand, the good news is with the housing market crash in the USA the wanke_r got what he deserved, Bankruptcy and I understand the road is opened again.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I was driving my daughter to school one morning and noticed 4 police trucks loaded with wheel 'boots' and chains and quite a few police officers with motorcycles 'booting' cars and chaining motorcycles parked in the bike lane. I noticed one Thai man that was in the process of having his truck booted just throw his hands up in the air and laugh like he didn't know but now he understood. Since that day I haven't noticed many cars parked in the lane just motorcycles but they never seem to respect anything including other motorcycles.

My wife made mention that the city had on more than one occasion considered closing off the mote area to everything but red trucks, tuk-tuks and bicycles to prevent the parking problem and congestion in the city. As far as I'm concerned that would only create a parking problem outside of the mote area and how can you tell people who live in the mote area they can't take their cars in. I would say that is the stupidest thing I ever heard and it could never happen in my country but the truth is the village I lived in the the USA was a tourist town and a famous A** hole bought most of the village and shut down the main road from 10:00 AM to 6:00 PM 7 days a week this was the big motivator for me to move to Thailand, the good news is with the housing market crash in the USA the wanke_r got what he deserved, Bankruptcy and I understand the road is opened again.

so where in the US are you talking about?

[justcruisin]

so where in the US are you talking about?

Hey Snake Man...off topic me thinks

Try a PM?

Any way I cycled most of the way around the moat today at nearly 4pm on a friday and was

rather surprised that i was not blocked by parked cars and didn't feel too threatened with the

volume of traffic,who on the most part seemed considerate,especially considering that it is only

a dual lane road that has been reduced to one and three quarter lanes.

A good idea but these streets where probably designed and surveyed for ox carts 400 years ago

and are way too narrow to accomodate a bike lane as well.

Seems the biggest problem is farangs who have no spatial awareness blundering along in their

own little world on both motorcycles and bicyles,completely unaware of the guy in the Vigo

(probably half drunk from the friday arvo beers)

coming from behind at 95kmh.

[PeaceBlondie]

Going around the inside of the moat last night at about 10 pm, I noticed the reflectors or lights that make the bike lane stand out. Do many cyclists ride at night? The lane does encroach on the left lane. Or was I supposed to ride my little sport bike inside the lane?

[Ulysses G.]

Seems the biggest problem is farangs who have no spatial awareness blundering along in their

own little world on both motorcycles and bicyles,completely unaware of the guy in the Vigo

(probably half drunk from the friday arvo beers)

coming from behind at 95kmh.

Huh? There is not much a bicycle can do about that except hope the speeding moron avoids you.