Uk Elderly Expats Lose Appeal Over Yearly Pensions Increase.

[operator]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/pen...icle5079275.ece

Dont't know why this report concentrates on just Commonwealth countries.

Elderly expats lose appeal over pensions

British pensioners resident in Commonwealth countries have had their appeal for better pensions rejectedDavid Budworth

AT least half a million British pensioners who have retired overseas have had their hopes of seeing an upgrade to their state pensions dashed.

The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled this morning that the Government is not obliged to pay annual inflation-linked state pension increases to expatriates. It rejected an appeal by 13 expats led by Annette Carson, who moved to South Africa in 1989, that they were being discriminated against by the British Government.

The group claimed discrimination on the grounds that pensioners are treated differently depending on their country of residence. Pensioners retiring anywhere in the European Union, America and countries such as Israel and Barbados have their state pension increased each year in line with prices, just like a pensioner who stays in Britain.

Those living in most Commonwealth countries, including Australia, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa, do not. Their state pension is frozen at the moment they retire, or when they leave Britain if they have already retired. Over time, that results in a pension that falls further and further behind the uprated version, and their purchasing power steadily declines.

Related Links

The expat pension pitfalls

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Ms Carson's pension is frozen at £67.50 a week, the going rate when she retired. But if she still lived in Britain, or any of the countries where state pensions are uprated, she would now be receiving £90.70 a week, the rate for the tax year that has just begun.Some expatriate pensioners in their 80s receive less than £10 a week. Victory in the case could have increased annual payments by hundreds of pounds.

The ECHR rejected the appeal by six votes to one. It said: "While there was some force in the applicants’ argument, echoed by Age Concern, that an elderly person’s decision to move abroad might be driven by a number of factors, including the desire to be close to family members, place of residence was nonetheless a matter of choice.

"The Court therefore agreed with the Government and the national courts that, in that context, the same high level of protection against differences of treatment was not needed as in differences based on gender or racial or ethnic origin.

"Moreover, the State had taken steps, in a series of leaflets which had referred to the Social Security Benefits Up-rating Regulations 2001, to inform United Kingdom residents moving abroad about the absence of index linking for pensions in certain countries."

The Department for Work & Pensions said: "We do not plan to make any changes to the current arrangements regarding the freezing of UK State Pensions. We will, nonetheless, study the terms of the judgement carefully to ensure that we continue to comply with our obligations under the terms of the European Convention on Human Rights."

Only one member of the court, Judge Garlicki from Poland, supported the pensioners' view. She said: "To my regret, I cannot subscribe to the Chamber's finding of no violation. In my opinion ... the difference in treatment has no objective and reasonable justification."

This was echoed by Gordon Lishman, director general of Age Concern, who said: “The ruling means that older people will continue to be penalised for wanting to retire abroad. We supported the action because it is hugely unfair that these pensioners have made their National Insurance contributions but are not getting their fair share in return.”

Three years ago, Ms Carson had a similar appeal rejected by the House of Lords.

The ECHR ruling in full

[yabaaaa]

When i get to that age Ill be trying every scam in the book including not telling them Ive gone by keeping a uk address. The F*******rs

[GuestHouse]

The ruling is a disappointment, the actual Pension Rules are a disgrace. But all is not lost, there is an election on the way and the significance of the Grey Vote is growing dramatically.

This issue needs to be made an election issue and to do that UK Pensioners living overseas who are impacted by this issue need to get writing to their MPs and importantly to the would be MP (The opposition in their constituency).

[endure]

A number of off topic posts have been deleted. Can we stick to the topic please.

[JetsetBkk]

The ruling is a disappointment, the actual Pension Rules are a disgrace. But all is not lost, there is an election on the way and the significance of the Grey Vote is growing dramatically.

This issue needs to be made an election issue and to do that UK Pensioners living overseas who are impacted by this issue need to get writing to their MPs and importantly to the would be MP (The opposition in their constituency).

There are several very popular pensioners' webs sites and news groups where this is the only topic discussed. What needs to happen is for these parties to get together, explain to all expats how to get a vote in UK elections (this "right" is being slowly eroded, by the way) and simply promise to ANY UK party that they - all their members - will vote for the party that PROMISES to get rid of this discrimination.

There are 100's of thousands of votes just waiting to be had for the party that does it.

[marshbags]

The ruling is a disappointment, the actual Pension Rules are a disgrace. But all is not lost, there is an election on the way and the significance of the Grey Vote is growing dramatically.

This issue needs to be made an election issue and to do that UK Pensioners living overseas who are impacted by this issue need to get writing to their MPs and importantly to the would be MP (The opposition in their constituency).

There are several very popular pensioners' webs sites and news groups where this is the only topic discussed. What needs to happen is for these parties to get together, explain to all expats how to get a vote in UK elections (this "right" is being slowly eroded, by the way) and simply promise to ANY UK party that they - all their members - will vote for the party that PROMISES to get rid of this discrimination.

There are 100's of thousands of votes just waiting to be had for the party that does it.

Why should expats be allowed vote in country they choose to turn their backs on ??????

From my experience, expats who are registered as living overseas and indeed many have chosen voluntary to reside outside the U.K. for many years, do not deserve any consideration when it comes to getting a vote.

When Maggie brought this idea to the fore and implemented it, it was nothing more than a vote getting exercise to favour their party.

Talk about getting your cake and eating it.

Let us not forget that there are also financial self interests taken into account when they decide to leave in many of these cases.

Proud to be British, they always cry and yet apparently, not proud enough to be taxed as such, while putting their phoney we love our country demeanour in on show for anyone fool enough to be impressed by it all.

If expats wish to be considered as British, then <deleted> register as living outside the U.K. , in many cases to escape supporting our beloved country via tax ect. ect.

The pension issue is of course a different scenario and if you have paid your dues, then you should be entitled to all the benefits as residing OAP,s are given, especially the increments.

I personally have never registered as an expat and i do not wish to do so, any time soon.

My accountant tried many times to convince me to do so, but i always told him, when i am prepared to sell up and go overseas to reside, i will think about it.

Should it happen then i would most certainly, not expect to get a say on the politics and in effect, how loyal, residing citizens have to live ect. ect.

If I / you wish to do so, then surely you should return to your country and support it, accordingly.

This is your given right and choice as i see it, also.

marshbags

Edited November 6, 2008 by marshbags

[khunphilip]

Marshbags

Donot no where you are from but Brits on frozen pensions still pay tax on company pensions and save the UK Goverment money on Health Care

and many other allowance our beef is not that pensions are frozen but if we live in another parts of the world like USA or even the Philipines you

get the full anti which we all pay foras for supporting our country as you think by not living there do you support yours by living here

[ignis]

I don’t think there is any place in the world that the price of living has stayed the same, so why should we have pensions frozen after paying for it for years ?

A way round it is to return to the UK for 6 months, silly as this would cost the tax payers many 1,000s but you would get free by law place to live + the pension increases + Free medical, so everyone would get teeth, eyes, Hospital, medication free for that 6 months… for those married that would be x 2

Problem is many could not face the 12+ hours trip back to UK and then hours with Social Security for accommodation..

How would Social Security deal with 1,000’s of OAP’s returning even 5 years for 6 months ? [every 5 yrs would give the latest increase of pension these increases would well cover the cost of the flight]

[Westerner]

Marshbags

Donot no where you are from but Brits on frozen pensions still pay tax on company pensions and save the UK Goverment money on Health Care

and many other allowance our beef is not that pensions are frozen but if we live in another parts of the world like USA or even the Philipines you

get the full anti which we all pay foras for supporting our country as you think by not living there do you support yours by living here

Well said, Khunphilip!!

[Scott]

I am wondering if there are any figures available as to the actual cost of increasing the pensions of those residing overseas whose pension is frozen?

[marshbags]

Marshbags

Donot no where you are from but Brits on frozen pensions still pay tax on company pensions and save the UK Goverment money on Health Care

and many other allowance our beef is not that pensions are frozen but if we live in another parts of the world like USA or even the Philipines you

get the full anti which we all pay foras for supporting our country as you think by not living there do you support yours by living here

If you pay U.K. taxes, then you are entitled to a vote and a say, full stop.

Taken from my post, part quote :-

If expats wish to be considered as British, then <deleted> register as living outside the U.K. , in many cases to escape supporting our beloved country via tax ect. ect.

If you are not in this group, and lets be honest, more are than aren,t ?????? Then it doesn,t refer to you. Again it,s highlighted in bold red and for me seperates the OAP,s, ( with dues being N Ins., taxes ect. ect. )

Read also that i live in both countries, ( and pay my way ) but choose to continue being a proud British citizen and also keep my bases there.

I also pay for schooling, health insurance and any other things we get for free back home and do so willingly, i might add.

This post was my opinion and sadly is based on many years working / living among the expat community.

marshbags

[GuestHouse]

If you pay U.K. taxes, then you are entitled to a vote and a say, full stop.

Marshbags,

While you personally believe that UK expats should not have a vote for having committed the crime of becoming expats, or for having managed their financial affairs such that they do not pay taxes, please try to remember this is only your personal opinion.

British Law (that is the law that governs the rights of British Citizens to Vote) allows expatriate Britons to Vote and further more, there are no rules relating a need to pay taxes in order to vote (regardless of where a Citizen lives).

[marshbags]

If you pay U.K. taxes, then you are entitled to a vote and a say, full stop.

Marshbags,

While you personally believe that UK expats should not have a vote for having committed the crime of becoming expats, or for having managed their financial affairs such that they do not pay taxes, please try to remember this is only your personal opinion.

British Law (that is the law that governs the rights of British Citizens to Vote) allows expatriate Britons to Vote and further more, there are no rules relating a need to pay taxes in order to vote (regardless of where a Citizen lives).

Agreed G.H. but.......................

Like the law that restricts increase on OAP expat pensions needs changing

The law that allows voting to expats who on the one hand want to be classed non residential for tax purposes ect. but the minute it suits them, they want to classed as residential ??????

This includes making flying visits back to the U.K. for medical treatment as many of them do, courtesy of the wonderfully free and much unfairly criticised by many of them as going down hill ??????? Our beloved National Health

Incidently i mentioned the lost appeal result in another thread yesterday ( post nine ) i started regarding someone who is personally effected and feeling the double wammy effects of the low exchange rate and the frozen pension of six years ago.

Ref url http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Uk-Oap-Payme...es-t219002.html

Any further imput on his behalf via this thread would be of great help to him as " opinions alone " cannot be used to fund / help his needs. as he is often forcefully telling me through his anger of it all, by the way.

No offence is taken by his outbursts even though we are not regular mates, i empathise totally with his problems.

I cannot repeat them as i,d be kicked right off the forum.

In the nicest possible way of course

marshbags

P.S.

The case for the increases to be re instated has been ongoing for several years with different governments in place and if the negative result of years of trying solving it are non effective, i cannot see losing ex amount of votes making any further difference...........sadly of course.

Now if you are an immigrant, legal or otherwise..........that,s a definite vote catcher.

In it a farce priority wise, the U.K.,s being taken over ???????

Edited November 6, 2008 by marshbags

[JetsetBkk]

I am wondering if there are any figures available as to the actual cost of increasing the pensions of those residing overseas whose pension is frozen?

400 million GBP /year - peanuts compared to how much is wasted, and how much goes on other departments. Absolute peanuts. And they would also SAVE on all the paperwork, people, computer programs and records that they need to maintain in order to deal with these two separate groups of pension receivers. Pay everyone the same - easy.

And NO OTHER European government does it. So if you are French, German, Dutch, etc, you can live anywhere you want in the world and get the same as your home-loving friends.

And being abroad, we DON'T get free bus passes, dentistry, National Health treatment, etc., etc. So we're already saving them a fortune by living abroad and yet still the lazy b@st@rds won't change this blatantly discriminatory rule. If a Private Pension scheme did it, they'd be hauled before the courts for discrimination.

If you pay U.K. taxes, then you are entitled to a vote and a say, full stop.

Taken from my post, part quote :-

If expats wish to be considered as British, then <deleted> register as living outside the U.K. , in many cases to escape supporting our beloved country via tax ect. ect.

I was going to post a long reply as I've never seen you go off on one before. But as you've clarified your view about paying tax, then I won't bother.

All pensions arising in the UK are subject to UK tax, as mine is.

Edit: accidentally missed out marshbags bit in red.

Edited November 6, 2008 by JetsetBkk

[JetsetBkk]

...This includes making flying visits back to the U.K. for medical treatment as many of them do, courtesy of the wonderfully free and much unfairly criticised by many of them as going down hill ??????? Our beloved National Health...

I believe this has been stopped or proposals have been made to stop it. Any up to date information would be very gratefully received. (Bad leg giving me some gyp. )

[marshbags]

...This includes making flying visits back to the U.K. for medical treatment as many of them do, courtesy of the wonderfully free and much unfairly criticised by many of them as going down hill ??????? Our beloved National Health...

I believe this has been stopped or proposals have been made to stop it. Any up to date information would be very gratefully received. (Bad leg giving me some gyp. )

It,s still happening in North East Lincs JsB and is the number one reason for resentment, along with expats coming in on flying visits who tend to rub the noses of those who live there permanently, going on about our life styles while boasting about there tax free mega wages / life styles in way off lands.

I am not an expat basher in general, but the voting issue leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

I was living in the U.K. on a full time basis in the Eighties and remember Snatcher Thatcher giving the expat community a postal vote in the elections.

Why ? because by and large most of them ( in my area anyway ) backed the tories, as they favoured their life style and all it,s tax free perks ect ect. and all that it selfishly encompassed.

The general observation on this was that most of these voters lived abroad, didn,t live in the U.K. and either didn,t give a <deleted> about how policies effected ordinary working people, or didn,t care as they were not effected.

Many live / lived away for many years and couldn,t have cared less about what was happening and yet they where given the right to vote, courtesy of what i consider a party of the wealthier members of society and in doing so have an unjust say, while not even caring about residential citizens and just what this selfish group went away to escape in the first place, local quality of life.

My views on this have not changed, nor have the views of those who condemned it at the time.

Ask yourselves those who reckon it is not so, would the tories have introduced this facility for expat voters had it favoured the opposition !!!

Like <deleted> they would have, it was an unjust political manouevre, that in the opinion of many, who still live and work in the U.K. , pay their dues week in and week out in financial terms, and more importantly keep the country going and developing by their presence and being true to the cause.

I did not bring voting into the thread and as G.H. correctly says " It is the law "

But as this is a fair debate then i am entitled to respond on behalf of the millions of residents who genuinely support the country and are prepared to show it.

This law, like the law that prevents OAP,s from getting their increases they are entitled to and rightly deserve, both taken on equal and deserving merits on the first part and non deserving on the second.

IMHO as always, but be assured should anyone wish to spend some real time back there supporting our country, they wiil soon witness many who think likewise.

I was there on one of my many visits back home just 4 weeks ago and the resentment is voiced loud and clear about expats and immigrants, especially among the OAP,s who cannot even afford to keep warm in the cold, nor buy anything other than basic foodstuffs.

Let us remember " all OAP,s ", especially those who do not have a choice or an opportuniy to voluntary live in warmer climates and suffer day after day.

I listen and i care about everyone of them, do you ?????????

marshbags

P.S.

My friend has now calmed down and says although the vote was against them, at least he now knows what the immediate future holds for him and can mentally adjust and hopefully return to the U.K. if he has to.

I,ve reminded him that winter is now upon us there and he will wait until the spring comes.

In the mean time i will keep in touch by phone and check his well being, as any genuine and caring decent human being would.

PPS

Were do you come from JsB, the word GYP i haven,t heard in a long time and one we use frequently in our neck of the woods ????

I had a chuckle when i read it, hope it gets better soon, is it the cold / damp spell that,s making it worse.

Edited November 7, 2008 by marshbags

[GuestHouse]

It,s still happening in North East Lincs JsB and is the number one reason for resentment, along with expats coming in on flying visits who tend to rub the noses of those who live there permanently,

Yikes, it seems I have a TV Neighbour back home.

Do be aware that British Citizens have a right of entry to the UK 'without let of hinderance' and that 'OUR' beloved national health service provides health care 'Free at the Point of Need'. You cannot prevent a British Citizen returning to the UK for health care without altering the rights of free movement under Magna Carta or the governing rules of the NHS.

I personally would like to see the NHS rules changed - but that is a different discussion. As things stand British Citizens returning to the UK for health care are not breaking any laws, or any rules.

going on about our life styles while boasting about there tax free mega wages / life styles in way off lands.

Steady on Marshbags, you are boardering on 'Spite and Envy'.

Let me make an illustrative point.

The Project I am working on employs several hundred British Expatriates - earning high tax free salaries in several multiples of the average UK salaries. Where does that money go? The vast majority of it is remitted to UK banks, and spent on buying houses, raising their families, buying nice goodies and investing in pensions - Again the vast majority of this is in the UK - Boosting the UK economy.

But there is more than that.

The capital costs of the project is over $12 Billion - Designed in the UK by engineers paying UK taxes, putting their salaries into the UK economy, Purchased from the UK - Money moving through the UK banks and economy, and substantial part of the material, professional and support services are supplied out of the UK - Jobs, incomes, taxes all helping the UK economy.

In truth when the money spent on expats who implement this project overseas is looked at against the whole it is a tiny fraction of the money moved around the UK economy.

Expats facilitate these projects, the tax they don't pay compared with the income streams that they facilitate is tiny, almost non existent.

And that is just one of our many projects, and we are just one of many companies doing business overseas, paying a small number of expats high tax free salaries and pouring Billions through the UK economy.

[eyebee]

I am 60 now and have lived in Thailand for the past 6 years. I'm currently getting a local government pension (superannuation), which is uprated every year according to the rate of inflation. This is perfectly correct as I paid into it for many years. I also pay tax on the pension.

When I'm 65, I'll be entitled to the UK state pension. Don't know how much it'll be as I was "contracted-out" during most of my working life. However I paid my "National Insurance" every month, and it was usually larger than my superannuation payments. I know that "National Insurance" isn't really insurance (in that you pay now for future benefits) as the money that people pay into NI funds other people's needs, so that the people who are receiving their OAP are being paid for by people who are currently paying NI. However, the fact that I paid my NI regularly should entitle me to the same benefits that other people get. Why should my choice of residence preclude me from getting the benefits that other people (who have paid in exctly the same way that I have) get?

I'm sorry if this post is long and rambling, but I'm very angry about the UK's stance on this issue .

BTW, marshbags, we may know each other - I lived in Cleethorpes for many years and worked for NE Lincs council (and before that Humberside).

eyebee

Edited November 7, 2008 by eyebee

[ThaiPauly]

Have to agree with you Eyebee.

I paid my NI contributions for 30 years , not missing one day from work.

I had good jobs so paid a lot of money to HM Government.

Now I am retired I will only get the pension as it was in 2003 when I left, and I don't qualify for another 12 years so what will a 2002 single persons pension in 200 be worth then I wonder?

Peanuts methinks

[GuestHouse]

Have to agree with you Eyebee.

I paid my NI contributions for 30 years , not missing one day from work.

I had good jobs so paid a lot of money to HM Government.

Now I am retired I will only get the pension as it was in 2003 when I left, and I don't qualify for another 12 years so what will a 2002 single persons pension in 200 be worth then I wonder?

Peanuts methinks

I think that you will find under the current rules your pension will be fixed at the rate it is on the day you retire (assuming you are resident outside the UK and remain resident outside the UK - So not the day you first left the UK).

Also I would advise that you get a pension forcast from the Deperatment of Work and Pensions - You need to have 30 full years of NI Payments to be eligible for a full pension - Just check you have the full 30 years required.

[marshbags]

It,s still happening in North East Lincs JsB and is the number one reason for resentment, along with expats coming in on flying visits who tend to rub the noses of those who live there permanently,

Yikes, it seems I have a TV Neighbour back home.

Do be aware that British Citizens have a right of entry to the UK 'without let of hinderance' and that 'OUR' beloved national health service provides health care 'Free at the Point of Need'. You cannot prevent a British Citizen returning to the UK for health care without altering the rights of free movement under Magna Carta or the governing rules of the NHS.

I personally would like to see the NHS rules changed - but that is a different discussion. As things stand British Citizens returning to the UK for health care are not breaking any laws, or any rules.

There you go again, British Citizens when it suits eh !!!!!!!!!!!!!

going on about our life styles while boasting about there tax free mega wages / life styles in way off lands.

Steady on Marshbags, you are boardering on 'Spite and Envy'.

Edited by marshbags

Oh dear you really are beginning to sound pompous and condescending, thought i,d gone backwards for awhile as it opened my memory bank and all i could see where those obnoxious individuals who used to try preaching their hollier than thou attitude at anyone fool enough to listen / be sucked in by it all.

You will be pleased to know i wasn,t and they soon learned to tone things down a little, knowing full well i would respond accordingly, verbally pointing out a reality check and the fact that they where among the hard working people they where in effect belittling by their comments.

This thread is about rules and laws ect., that are, sadly, preventing many OAP,s from getting much deserved increments and increases to give them a much needed restoration of parity the present day requires and demands.

But then again why would someone who was / is fortunate enough to fund a private pension have the ability to be genuinely compassionate and be able to empathise with those who haven,t, when it comes to the restrictive and unjust rules that can and are exploited to justify get outs at the expennse of others.

I feel sure your ego is boosted by your latest post and your condescending reply.

No further comment as it has <deleted> all to do with advancing and improving the cause of the topic in question.

I will not be sidetracked into off topic replies so let us not waste any more time, I don,t play verbal tennis unless it is constructive, conducive and pertinent to the debate !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Other than that, save it for those who wish to be impressed by your ongoing observations, theres a good boy.

marshbags

Edited November 7, 2008 by marshbags

[jesimps]

Hey Marshbags! You are a simple t#*t! Obviously a raving lefty to boot. I'm an expat, but most of the opinions I hear from expats in Thailand are left-leaning, so blaming it on Mrs Thatcher is just political ranting. By the way, although a right winger, I was pleased to see Mr Obama win the US election. Mr Mac, despite being a legend, is just too old. Why does anyone want to be president, with all it's responsibilities, at 72 YOA? I'd rather play golf every day and get whiffled at night.

Regarding pension, I have given the Inland Revenue my daughter's address and am hoping they don't cotton on. If they do, cest la vie. I'll plead ignorance. Buggered if I know why my pension isn't index linked when I've paid nhs contributions and UK tax all my life. Some fickle so and so who's never even thought about paying tax/nhs, not only has the index linking but also gets about 50 quid a week more than me anyway!

Rant over. B^*)_r off Marshbags, you p@#s me off.

[marshbags]

Hey Marshbags! You are a simple t#*t! Obviously a raving lefty to boot. I'm an expat, but most of the opinions I hear from expats in Thailand are left-leaning, so blaming it on Mrs Thatcher is just political ranting. By the way, although a right winger, I was pleased to see Mr Obama win the US election. Mr Mac, despite being a legend, is just too old. Why does anyone want to be president, with all it's responsibilities, at 72 YOA? I'd rather play golf every day and get whiffled at night.

Regarding pension, I have given the Inland Revenue my daughter's address and am hoping they don't cotton on. If they do, cest la vie. I'll plead ignorance. Buggered if I know why my pension isn't index linked when I've paid nhs contributions and UK tax all my life. Some fickle so and so who's never even thought about paying tax/nhs, not only has the index linking but also gets about 50 quid a week more than me anyway!

Rant over. B^*)_r off Marshbags, you p@#s me off.

Thank you for your kind words jesimps "newbie ", at least you mention a bit of relevant info pertaining to your pension scenario.

I hope the minor blast off takes a bit of the frustration away.

Genuine good luck with keeping them at bay, being economical with the truth in this case is not to be considered unworthy, especially as say, you have paid your dues ect.

MHO as always when you are IMHO unjustly penalised.

marshbags

P.S.

I am neither left or right, just batting for what i personally consider worthy causes and the oppressed / underdog.

Not meant to be a derogaritive last couple of words, by the way.

Edited November 7, 2008 by marshbags

[astromash]

most of the opinions I hear from expats in Thailand are left-leaning

Huh? Most expats in ThaiLAND are left-leaning?

I think maybe you mean expats in IceLAND or GreenLAND or New ZeaLAND?

[astromash]

You cannot prevent a British Citizen returning to the UK for health care without altering the rights of free movement under Magna Carta or the governing rules of the NHS.

Are you sure? Maybe since April 1st 2004 this can be prevented.

The NHS should be "a British service for people who live in Britain" (then Health secretary John Reid).

http://insurance.thaivisa.com/news/new-nhs...for-expats.html

[GuestHouse]

But then again why would someone who was / is fortunate enough to fund a private pension have the ability to be genuinely compassionate and be able to empathise with those who haven,t, when it comes to the restrictive and unjust rules that can and are exploited to justify get outs at the expennse of others.

Marshbags, if you raid your memory banks you'll find that I have consistantly posted on the issue of the injustice of the pension rules opening a number of threads encouraging others to write (as I have) to their MP and the Political Parties, to press for reform of these Pension Rules.

---

I'd encourage you to give up on the spite and envy thing, it will only embitter you.

[Patriciachas]

Have to agree with you Eyebee.

I paid my NI contributions for 30 years , not missing one day from work.

I had good jobs so paid a lot of money to HM Government.

Now I am retired I will only get the pension as it was in 2003 when I left, and I don't qualify for another 12 years so what will a 2002 single persons pension in 200 be worth then I wonder?

Peanuts methinks

Your pension will be fixed from the date you receive it ,not from the date you left the uk

[john b good]

When i get to that age Ill be trying every scam in the book including not telling them Ive gone by keeping a uk address. The F*******rs

"F*******rs" they might be BUT the moment you go thru immigration (on leaving the UK) they have your departure on file.

Keeping a UK address will give you nothing, zero, zilch.

"yabaaaa" would appear to be an appropriate handle

[GuestHouse]

Oooh Look Guesthouse the Pension Activist

And with some result....

And a Response for the Conservative Party

So quit moaning and do your bit - Write to your MP and to the Conservative Party demanding change to these rules.

And remember, personal wealth does not preclude one having compassion - Though it sadly gives some cause to feel hard done by.

[JetsetBkk]

I am 60 now and have lived in Thailand for the past 6 years. I'm currently getting a local government pension (superannuation), which is uprated every year according to the rate of inflation. This is perfectly correct as I paid into it for many years. I also pay tax on the pension.

When I'm 65, I'll be entitled to the UK state pension. Don't know how much it'll be as I was "contracted-out" during most of my working life. However I paid my "National Insurance" every month, and it was usually larger than my superannuation payments. I know that "National Insurance" isn't really insurance (in that you pay now for future benefits) as the money that people pay into NI funds other people's needs, so that the people who are receiving their OAP are being paid for by people who are currently paying NI. However, the fact that I paid my NI regularly should entitle me to the same benefits that other people get. Why should my choice of residence preclude me from getting the benefits that other people (who have paid in exctly the same way that I have) get?..

Excellent post, eyebee. I too have paid NI for 32 years, never missed any. I think I deserve the pension I was promised irrespective of where I live. The government's response - and repeated in that ridiculous recent ruling by the EU court - that "you knew the rules before you left" is so unbelievably childish it is like a school playground argument. It does not address the main points that it is blatantly unfair and illogical, and that no other country does it. It is a typical British "spite and envy" ruling against people perceived to be rich by the actually stinking rich Government members who get their indexed linked, non-contributory, tax-payer paid for pensions that no private pension scheme could possibly afford.

B@st@rds.

Rant over. I feel much better now.