God being English the true version of the Bible would naturally be in that language.

hmmm... good point. never looked at Bible questions from that perspective. will think about it and give you my ruling later. session adjourned!

claimant's plea rejected, court cost to be borne by him.

I insist that I made no claim but merely posted an internet link in the interest of promoting discussion.

(sceadugenga neatly slides away from any suggestion HE should pay).

claimant's plea rejected, court cost to be borne by him.

I insist that I made no claim but merely posted an internet link in the interest of promoting discussion.

(sceadugenga neatly slides away from any suggestion HE should pay).

wrong reference! claimant is/was Suegha. bailiff escort Sceawhatever to the door and let him wait outside but handcuff him. he is a material witness.

I was perfectly aware that one could possibly suggest I was the claimant but was merely preparing my defence should anyone dare to suggest such at a later date in the event that such an unlikely hypothetical occur.

My integrity as a witness is spoken of with bated breathe in legal circles, having on many occasions delivered exactly the testimony paid for by the defendant or claimant.

what happened to the "serious discussion"? gone fishin'?

True Story:

A few years back, in one of the, ahem, more central western states- there was a school board looking for ways to cut funding. Of course, music and the arts went first. Then a school board member suggested the removal of foreign languages. When asked if he didn't think that might disadvantage the children, he retorted, "if English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for us!"

True Story:

A few years back, in one of the, ahem, more central western states- there was a school board looking for ways to cut funding. Of course, music and the arts went first. Then a school board member suggested the removal of foreign languages. When asked if he didn't think that might disadvantage the children, he retorted, "if English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for us!"

:D

what happened to the "serious discussion"? gone fishin'?

Apparently there were "different starting points" that not all contributors/readers were aware of.

Judaism is the only faith in world history that was sustained as a faith without resorting to the sword to sustain it, for over 2,500 years, with only a few exceptions.

I have to disagree, Zoroastrianism is just as old if not older than Judaism, has never used the sword to sustain itself, and was the world's first monotheistic religion. It is also the first religion to have a devil, which is where all the other religions got the notion of a devil.

pampal, you may be right. My Yoder book is not handy right now, so I cannot be sure if the good professor hedged his bet by saying "major world religion."

Zorastrianism contributed several aspects of dualism to Judaeo-Christianity, I was taught.

Creationists may want to look away at this point, or not.

"The notion of God as the Creator is wrong, claims a top academic, who believes the Bible has been wrongly translated for thousands of years."

It boils down to the use of the verb "bara", which in hebrew means to create. It can also mean to separate and the argument is that when it is followed by two objects, ie. heaven and earth, then it's meaning would be to separate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...s-academic.html

Regards.

Creationists may want to look away at this point, or not.

"The notion of God as the Creator is wrong, claims a top academic, who believes the Bible has been wrongly translated for thousands of years."

It boils down to the use of the verb "bara", which in hebrew means to create. It can also mean to separate and the argument is that when it is followed by two objects, ie. heaven and earth, then it's meaning would be to separate.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...s-academic.html

Regards.

No tt, most creationists would be happy with this as an academic goes on to say say God created within that earth. It also doesn't stop a creation happening some that before this as her point was that the 'in the beginning' comment is the beginning of the narative. Many creationists believe this already.

The word she's talking about (bara) is translated 'create' and 'created' but it's also translated 'make', 'do' and even 'cut'. It's meaning can change depending on the sentence structure.

Sorry I have not read the entire thread so I may be restating what has already been said....it's so obvious, it must have been pointed out.

With regard to the OP and the Jewish angle of the proof of the Bible. When the Jews formed the State of Israel in 1948, this was not miraculous prophecy fullfilled, but self-fullfilled prophecy. The displaced Jews were taken to Palestine BECAUSE of the Bible verses.

As an atheist, I love science and logic.

One of the biggest problems I have with treating the Bible as "Truth" is that the interpretation of it (by scholarly believers) changes with time. Changes as science learns more facts. The latest scholarly change is to promote the idea of "Intelligent Design" over literal belief in creation (since scientific evidence for evolution is getting weighty indeed).

Having said that, just last week I was reading about quantum physics and I had reason to pause for thought and consider "intelligent design". Days later I am still pausing, and still thinking.

The thing that set me off was Plancks Constant (h).....or rather the lesser constant, (h bar). Here we are looking at raw energy in it's minutest possible form (quanta), and yet it has a relationship to Pi (3.14149....), a physical ratio in space. Energy tied to space. Einsteins theory. Space, energy, mass, time. All connected. A VERY intelligent design, if indeed it is not an accident of chaos, or that it "just is".

Perhaps there was intelligent design by a "power". I reject the Bible's version, but I concede that there may be a kernal there. For instance, evolution is not a theory but a fact, and it has taken place over millenia, but the primordial ooze from which all life evolved was "designed" to evolve in much the same way as it has.

I've lost a few kg in the last couple of weeks so to gaze at my navel now takes an effort because it has receded below the line of vision obscured by my chest...so it's all very tiring....I'll have to cogitate again later.