New Regulations For Extensions Of Non-immigrant Visas

[simon43]

Well, I have a job interview on Wednesday, and a couple of other irons in the fire. So I will do a 15 day visa run on 17th December (just to keep me going), and then see where I stand with new job or new wife(!) or whatever.....

Simon

[ubonjoe]

Livinginkata - I wish! The lack of supporting letters from my police bosses has already caused 2 other volunteers to leave Thailand because they were unable to get a 'volunteer visa'...

Mario2008, I just finished a 60 day extension to visit my son, and I believe that extension is a once-only option. But with these visa changes and the likelyhood of new employment in the near future, my situation is looking a little better!

Simon

Not sure aboput the once only option. I don't see it as a once in a life time option. As far as I understand you only get one extension, but hard to stay if you leave the country and come back you can't get a new extension based on this. It is not against the rules, but as usual will depend on your local immigration.

I agree mario. I think it means back to back extensions. I recall a recent post from a member that had done it again after leaving the country.

But the problem might be the 21 day rule.

[Mario2008]

Well, I have a job interview on Wednesday, and a couple of other irons in the fire. So I will do a 15 day visa run on 17th December (just to keep me going), and then see where I stand with new job or new wife(!) or whatever.....

Simon

Visiting family would qualify you for a non-immigrant O visa from a consulate. More exepemsive then doing a border run, but gives you more time.

[dekka007]

Are we agreed that there is no reference to the 90 days in 180 days rule and therefore can presume that unlimited 30 day entries are available through travel by air. And the previous rule has been revoked?

[george]

Are we agreed that there is no reference to the 90 days in 180 days rule and therefore can presume that unlimited 30 day entries are available through travel by air. And the previous rule has been revoked?

Yes.

[kriswillems]

Hi,

My wife is Thai and we have a baby that is Thai. I was happy to read this thread because people claim that:

in this case you have a Thai child the FAMILY INCOME should be more than 40.000/month

(based on the English translation posted in this thread).

BUT

I was very disappoint when I read the Thai version of the document. I don't agree with this translation:

2.18 - (5) In the case of a parent, one of the parents must

have an average annual income of not less than 40,000

baht per month or a money deposit of not less than

400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

My translation would be:

In case of a father or mother, THAT father or mother should have an average annual income not less than 40.000 B/month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

I think the word "THAT" is important.

I (the applicant) am the father, so I should have an average income not less that 40.000B/month.

[ubonjoe]

Hi,

My wife is Thai and we have a baby that is Thai. I was happy to read this thread because people claim that:

in this case you have a Thai child the FAMILY INCOME should be more than 40.000/month

(based on the English translation posted in this thread).

BUT

I was very disappoint when I read the Thai version of the document. I don't agree with this translation:

2.18 - (5) In the case of a parent, one of the parents must

have an average annual income of not less than 40,000

baht per month or a money deposit of not less than

400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

My translation would be:

In case of a father or mother, THAT father or mother should have an average annual income not less than 40.000 B/month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

I think the word "THAT" is important.

I (the applicant) am the father, so I should have an average income not less that 40.000B/month.

The way I read this is that it cannot be a combined income. It has to be the father or mother has the income.

This clause appears to be for a single parent not an option for a married couple.

[kriswillems]

Hi,

My wife is Thai and we have a baby that is Thai. I was happy to read this thread because people claim that:

in this case you have a Thai child the FAMILY INCOME should be more than 40.000/month

(based on the English translation posted in this thread).

BUT

I was very disappoint when I read the Thai version of the document. I don't agree with this translation:

2.18 - (5) In the case of a parent, one of the parents must

have an average annual income of not less than 40,000

baht per month or a money deposit of not less than

400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

My translation would be:

In case of a father or mother, THAT father or mother should have an average annual income not less than 40.000 B/month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

I think the word "THAT" is important.

I (the applicant) am the father, so I should have an average income not less that 40.000B/month.

The way I read this is that it cannot be a combined income. It has to be the father or mother has the income.

This clause appears to be for a single parent not an option for a married couple.

I think married couples with children can choose which rule they apply on. They don't say this rule is reserved for single parents. But the translation is not correct. I think the foreign person that applies based on this rule (mother of father) needs an annual income no less that 40K/month (or 400K on an account).

[ubonjoe]

Hi,

My wife is Thai and we have a baby that is Thai. I was happy to read this thread because people claim that:

in this case you have a Thai child the FAMILY INCOME should be more than 40.000/month

(based on the English translation posted in this thread).

BUT

I was very disappoint when I read the Thai version of the document. I don't agree with this translation:

2.18 - (5) In the case of a parent, one of the parents must

have an average annual income of not less than 40,000

baht per month or a money deposit of not less than

400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

My translation would be:

In case of a father or mother, THAT father or mother should have an average annual income not less than 40.000 B/month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

I think the word "THAT" is important.

I (the applicant) am the father, so I should have an average income not less that 40.000B/month.

The way I read this is that it cannot be a combined income. It has to be the father or mother has the income.

This clause appears to be for a single parent not an option for a married couple.

I think married couples with children can choose which rule they apply on. They don't say this rule is reserved for single parents. But the translation is not correct. I think the foreign person that applies based on this rule (mother of father) needs an annual income no less that 40K/month (or 400K on an account).

Your translation of it stating "That father or mother" makes it more evident it is meant to be for a single parent. Remember that this clause is also for a Thai man to get an extension for his farang wife. In that case 5 and 6 would not apply.

So (5) is for a single male or female farang applicant.

"(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year."

If you are married (5) cannot be used.

Edited December 10, 2008 by ubonjoe

[Mobi]

My friend wishes to renew his marriage visa at Pattaya Immigration. When he first applied last year, the application had to be sent to immigration in Bangkok for approval.

Does anyone know if subsequent renewals also have to be signed off in Bangkok, or can it be approved by Pattaya immigration alone?

The reason for the question is that under the new rules, there seems to be some discretion allowed on the part of the immigration officer, and my friend has already been told that his renewal would be OK even though he needs joint income to qualify.

However, this assurance would amount to nothing if the file has to be signed off in Bangkok.

[Lite Beer]

My friend wishes to renew his marriage visa at Pattaya Immigration. When he first applied last year, the application had to be sent to immigration in Bangkok for approval.

Does anyone know if subsequent renewals also have to be signed off in Bangkok, or can it be approved by Pattaya immigration alone?

The reason for the question is that under the new rules, there seems to be some discretion allowed on the part of the immigration officer, and my friend has already been told that his renewal would be OK even though he needs joint income to qualify.

However, this assurance would amount to nothing if the file has to be signed off in Bangkok.

Yes the applications still have to go away to be rubber stamped. My understanding is that it is usually a formality as the local office has already agreed to it.

[Maestro]

My translation would be:

In case of a father or mother, THAT father or mother should have an average annual income not less than 40.000 B/month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

I think the word "THAT" is important.

I (the applicant) am the father, so I should have an average income not less that 40.000B/month.

Thank you for this clarification.

I had been wondering about the same point, and now it makes more sense. It means that if a foreigner married to a Thai wife has a child with Thai nationality it makes no difference for him whether he applies for the extension to live with Thai wife or with Thai child. It seemed strange to me that in the first case the income or money in the bank would have to be exclusively his but in the second case could also be his wife’s.

--

Maestro

[kriswillems]

So, now I have a problem, because we don't have 400000 on a bank account. I can transfer 400000 now, but it will be too late because I'll have to apply for the extension this week (and at that time the 400000 will not be there for 60 days). My wife has an income >40K.

The Thai immigration law always seems to change just before I need to apply for an extension.

Is there any way I could escape from this problem without going to a Thai embassy in another country?

[dotcom]

I would just do your best & try it.

They seem to be lenient for renewals (Suan Plu). Tough economic times; they want us here. Transfer in the cash & plead that they recently changed the rules & you didn't have sufficient time to comply. A smile & a friendly attitude go a long way. Take the whole family with you. They love children.

[ubonjoe]

So, now I have a problem, because we don't have 400000 on a bank account. I can transfer 400000 now, but it will be too late because I'll have to apply for the extension this week (and at that time the 400000 will not be there for 60 days). My wife has an income >40K.

The Thai immigration law always seems to change just before I need to apply for an extension.

Is there any way I could escape from this problem without going to a Thai embassy in another country?

If you have applied before using the wifes income you should apply that way. Did you read this?

6. If an alien who has entered Thailand before this order came into force and has been continuously granted temporary stay as clause 2.18(6), in case the marriage with Thai lady, is found to lack the qualifications as prescribed in this order, the Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau or competent official shall consider and decide on the particular case based on the prevailing reasons and circumstances within 1 year from the effective date hereof.

[pab]

Thanks George and well done to Sebastian and his staff at Isaan Lawyers. The update and broad based discussion by TV members was greatly appreciated

[kriswillems]

Thanks Dotcom, Ubonjoe,

Last time I took the baby with us. Although the baby didn't cry while we were waiting, they warned us not to take the baby with us anymore because if the baby would cry it would disturb them. I wouldn't say they love children.

I went on 16th of November. I asked if they had any knowledge of a change in rules. They said nothing would change. And then on 25 November they changed the rules.

In my country (and I think in every other civilized country) government can't make laws or rules that have an influence on the past. People should get the right to anticipate when a new law/rule is made. Here they just make a new rules today and they say it starts counting from 60 days ago. It think my future depends on good luck again (good mood of the officer).

Anyway, if I get bad luck, I will have to apply for a single entry new non-immigrant visa in another country, right? I stay in Chonburi. What's the cheapest way to do this (we're not rich)? Is Vientanne the best option?

(My current 1 year extension expires on 16 jan 2009, I will transfer 400K today, just to be sure)

Edited December 10, 2008 by kriswillems

[ubonjoe]

Thanks Dotcom, Ubonjoe,

Last time I took the baby with us. Although the baby didn't cry while we were waiting, they warned us not to take the baby with us anymore because if the baby would cry it would disturb them. I wouldn't say they love children.

I went on 16th of November. I asked if they had any knowledge of a change in rules. They said nothing would change. And then on 25 November they changed the rules.

In my country (and I think in every other civilized country) government can't make laws or rules that have an influence on the past. People should get the right to anticipate when a new law/rule is made. Here they just make a new rules today and they say it starts counting from 60 days ago. It think my future depends on good luck again (good mood of the officer).

Anyway, if I get bad luck, I will have to apply for a single entry new non-immigrant visa in another country, right? I stay in Chonburi. What's the cheapest way to do this (we're not rich)? Is Vientanne the best option?

I think you will get your extension just talk to them and explain about the change and you could put money in the bank but there is no time and etc. Since you have gotten extensions under the old rules they should do it this time according the grandfather rule I posted earlier.

If not have a look at 2.24 that would give you a 60 day extension.

Otherwise Vientiane is the best option to get a single entry non-o.

Good Luck

Joe

[kriswillems]

Update:

Today I applied for a 1 year extension based on income of my wife in the local immigration office. They understood that I could not know about the new law 60 days ago, so they understood I didn't have 400K on the bank (during 60 days). They said this would be the last time I could apply based on my wife's income.

I think 400K in an account, during 60 days is much better than the system based on income.

I am under consideration now until Feb 16. I'll let you know about the result.

[Lite Beer]

Update:

Today I applied for a 1 year extension based on income of my wife in the local immigration office. They understood that I could not know about the new law 60 days ago, so they understood I didn't have 400K on the bank (during 60 days). They said this would be the last time I could apply based on my wife's income.

I think 400K in an account, during 60 days is much better than the system based on income.

I am under consideration now until Feb 16. I'll let you know about the result.

Well done.

So it looks as if it is going to be a one time only Grandfather clause.

You will be ok in a months time.

[opalhort]

Update:

I am under consideration now until Feb 16. I'll let you know about the result.

Well done.

So it looks as if it is going to be a one time only Grandfather clause.

You will be ok in a months time.

This is a very unusal long 'under cosideration' time (over 60 days)!

Could it be that Imm granted this in order to have the 400K seasoned as required before they approve the visa?

But I'm glad it worked out for the OP.

opalhort

[uncletom]

I am still under consideration. On the 22nd of this month will now make month 3. When asked they just said, I don't know come back again in a month, we don't know anything. My guess is that for some people they just held the process up until the new regs came into effect to help them. Before it was only 30 days with a yes.

Uncletom

[kriswillems]

Update:

I am under consideration now until Feb 16. I'll let you know about the result.

Well done.

So it looks as if it is going to be a one time only Grandfather clause.

You will be ok in a months time.

This is a very unusal long 'under cosideration' time (over 60 days)!

Could it be that Imm granted this in order to have the 400K seasoned as required before they approve the visa?

But I'm glad it worked out for the OP.

opalhort

It's standard : time of visa expiry + 30 days.

My last 1 year extension expires on jan 17.

They said I will need to transfers money 3 months before the NEXT time I will ask for a 1 year extension (strange that they didn't say 60 days). So, I still got 9 months to transfer money. I didn't had to give any bank details (no copy of bankbook, no account number).

However, my case was discussed with several officers, they talked about the 1 year clause which allows them the give me a visa under the old rules:

6. If an alien who has entered Thailand before this order came into force and has been continuously granted temporary stay as clause 2.18(6), in case the marriage with Thai lady, is found to lack the qualifications as prescribed in this order, the Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau or competent official shall consider and decide on the particular case based on the prevailing reasons and circumstances within 1 year from the effective date hereof.

My file will be sent to BKK for approval (just like last year). I should know the result on FEB 16.

I hurried to apply for my 1 year extension, hoping they would still accept the old rules (and they did).

One detail: they said that starting from this year they don't need any photo of the house or wedding ceremony anymore.

Edited December 12, 2008 by kriswillems

[tijnebijn]

Good what you did there Kris !

But I'm still waiting for a report how the immigration office is interpretating

the fact that being married and having children together the wife 40k is still valid

or not for another extension .

I'm not sure but don't read anywhere that Kriswillems got any children , correct me if I'm wrong .

My wife read the script and in her interpretation is when having children together the 40k of wife or

husband or the 400k is still valid but not when only married without children ...

I'm still waiting to see some reports on this , cause its a big difference if it is so ,

and even more saves me sending 400k straight away or a trip abroad if I'm not able to .

.

[kriswillems]

Good what you did there Kris !

But I'm still waiting for a report how the immigration office is interpretating

the fact that being married and having children together the wife 40k is still valid

or not for another extension .

I'm not sure but don't read anywhere that Kriswillems got any children , correct me if I'm wrong .

My wife read the script and in her interpretation is when having children together the 40k of wife or

husband or the 400k is still valid but not when only married without children ...

I'm still waiting to see some reports on this , cause its a big difference if it is so ,

and even more saves me sending 400k straight away or a trip abroad if I'm not able to .

.

I also let my wife read the Thai version. She said she was not sure how to interpret it. Her first reaction was the same as your wife. But when I translated the Thai text word by word and pointed out that the word "นั้น" was there she said my interpretation was correct. Confusion may be created by the fact that they don't say the father or mother they talk about is the applicant (and not his/her partner, who is of course also a father or monther). Well, anyway, let's just wait and see.

[tijnebijn]

Good what you did there Kris !

But I'm still waiting for a report how the immigration office is interpretating

the fact that being married and having children together the wife 40k is still valid

or not for another extension .

I'm not sure but don't read anywhere that Kriswillems got any children , correct me if I'm wrong .

My wife read the script and in her interpretation is when having children together the 40k of wife or

husband or the 400k is still valid but not when only married without children ...

I'm still waiting to see some reports on this , cause its a big difference if it is so ,

and even more saves me sending 400k straight away or a trip abroad if I'm not able to .

.

I also let my wife read the Thai version. She said she was not sure how to interpret it. Her first reaction was the same as your wife. But when I translated the Thai text word by word and pointed out that the word "นั้น" was there she said my interpretation was correct. Confusion may be created by the fact that they don't say the father or mother they talk about is the applicant (and not his/her partner, who is of course also a father or monther). Well, anyway, let's just wait and see.

I let my wife have another look , and she persisted on the fact that the word ' nai corronie ' , only points out to

the fact that one of that or those parents can be the bread winner .....

In the first column they write for those Thais married to foreign nationals , in the second the things we need for the extension .

So it doesn't matter the father or mother who is a foreign national is the applicant , because one of those

the woman or the man is always a foreigner married to a Thai national already .....

In the first half of the column they already point out Thais married to foreigners so they do not point this specifically for a

second time in the text we talk about .

I think she 's got a point , but indeed just wait and see .

[kriswillems]

I let my wife have another look , and she persisted on the fact that the word ' nai corronie ' , only points out to

the fact that one of that or those parents can be the bread winner .....

กรณี just means "in case of". If I translated word by word, without making any interpretations, and without trying to transform it into nice English, you'll get the following:

In case of a father or mother, that father or mother has to have an average yearly income not less than 40000 B/month...

Thai people don't have a special word for "parents" (well, they have some words, but never use them). They just say "father mother". "That" and "those" is the same word in Thai. "Have" and "has" is the same word in Thai.

So, the sentence can also be interpreted as:

In case of parents, those parents have to have an average yearly income not less than 40000 B/month...

There are many cases:

4 = in case (the applicant is) a child...

5 = in case (the applicant is) a father or mother

OR

5 = in case of parents

6 = in case (the applicant is) married with a Thai woman

If the case "5" would refer to parents, your wife is right and the income can come from either wife or husband.

So the question is how "In case of a father or mother" should be interpreted. There are 2 possibilities:

First possibility: In case the applicant is a father or a mother

Second possibility: In case the application concerns parents

Case 4 and 6 refer to the applicant, I don't see any reason why case 5 would be different, but I am not 100% sure, of course. Further on Thai people would say "father mother" (บิดามารดา) to refer to parents and not "father or mother" (บิดาหรือมารดา)

Edited December 13, 2008 by kriswillems

[Maestro]

kriswillems, I agree with your interpretation except that because of the “or” I would make it “in case of a parent, that parent must have…”. If there remains any doubt on the translation of this particular text passage it should perhaps be brought into the Thai Language Forum where all the language experts will respond.

--

Maestro

P.S. father and mother = parents; father or mother = a parent

[JR Texas]

kriswillems, I agree with your interpretation except that because of the “or” I would make it “in case of a parent, that parent must have…”. If there remains any doubt on the translation of this particular text passage it should perhaps be brought into the Thai Language Forum where all the language experts will respond.

--

Maestro

P.S. father and mother = parents; father or mother = a parent

Since 2000, I feel like I have been witnessing a blatant attack against foreigners. The bar continues to be raised without any concern about how it impacts mixed Thai-farang families. It makes me sick what "those people" are doing to good people living in the Kingdom.

It is clearly prejudicial to demand 50K income per month for a US citizen and 25K income per month for citizens of various African countries.

It is way past time that we complain to our respective governments and DEMAND tit for tat with regard to the way Thais are treated abroad.

In the USA, to take on example, tit for tat would mean that all Thais married to US citizens would have to show a monthly income that is roughly 5 times the average American income (I am basing this on the fact that most Thais don't make 10K per month and they are demanding 50K for US citizens.........five times the average Thai income).

And the income cannot come from the Thais American spouse.

Our governments needs to single out Thai citizens living abroad....and make it extremely difficult for them to live abroad.

I think that would stop all of this ASAP. We might even finally see a reversal of the xenophobic changes to the immigration laws that have taken place over the past 8-9 years.

A collective lawsuit might also be effective.

[chiangmaibruce]

OK well got the extension today at Chiang Mai. Arrived just after 11am and left at 3:15pm and it became increasingly busy after lunch. As of today CNX immigration is still handing out the colour brochure that says BOTH income and bank deposit criteria must be satisfied. I did not provide anything about bank deposits, and nothing was said about that.