New Regulations For Extensions Of Non-immigrant Visas

[Lite Beer]

6. If an alien who has entered Thailand before this order came into force and has been continuously granted temporary stay as clause 2.18(6), in case the marriage with Thai lady, is found to lack the qualifications as prescribed in this order, the Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau or competent official shall consider and decide on the particular case based on the prevailing reasons and circumstances within 1 year from the effective date hereof.

It could mean that the descretionary powers of the immigration officer are only for the first year of the new rules. After that no more descretionary powers and everybody will have to fit the rules.

As we know, even when the regulations are set in stone. Different offices will have different interpretations of the rules. So this section does not fill you with confidence does it?

It is a shame that foreign Men were not given the same rights as foreign Ladies . That surely must be wrong.

That's my rant for the night.

[monkeytunes]

6. If an alien who has entered Thailand before this order came into force and has been continuously granted temporary stay as clause 2.18(6), in case the marriage with Thai lady, is found to lack the qualifications as prescribed in this order, the Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau or competent official shall consider and decide on the particular case based on the prevailing reasons and circumstances within 1 year from the effective date hereof.

It could mean that the descretionary powers of the immigration officer are only for the first year of the new rules. After that no more descretionary powers and everybody will have to fit the rules.

As we know, even when the regulations are set in stone. Different offices will have different interpretations of the rules. So this section does not fill you with confidence does it?

It is a shame that foreign Men were not given the same rights as foreign Ladies . That surely must be wrong.

That's my rant for the night.

Rant maybe but I think you have a good point.

[abdulrahman]

Although I benefit from the changes, its means I just need the 400k in the bank, so no hassle with proof of icome. but I think its a shame that they have changed the income requirement for visa based on marriage to just the husband, once again I cannot see the benefit, i know a few married men that just fall short of the 40K requirement but with the wifes salary meet the requirements, 40K is allot anyway when you consider what local people can earn, and if your married surely it make sense for both icomes (the family income) to be taken into account.

Agreed, very much agreed.

And don't think they would lower the requirements to proof the legal and de-facto marriage through photos and statements by the wife and all the other requirements in paper they demand in the case of One Year Permissions to Stay based on Thai Wife.

The 400 K in the bank was also valid until October 2006 - and has been grandfathered.

The essence of the "Husband only has to have 40 K per month" is to block out more of those that are not regarded as quality residents/tourists.

The new regulations don't affect me,but the "family income" of 40K X month was IMHO a step on the right way;now,we(farang husbands) are discriminated again.

[dirkthai]

The new rules sounds ok.

But when you go for that Family visa and deposit 400K in the bank.

You have to go out the country every year or just 1 x a year showing the papers at the emigration office ??

[CosmicSurfer]

but can I ask, based on the last rules you needed both, 400K and 40K PM income proof, so you have needed 400K in the bank, so if you still have that 400K youll be Ok, youll not need to orove an income.

No.. that is not right...

The previous rules eliminated the 400K and replaced it with the 40K COMBINED monthly... unless you had previously had the 400K, then you could still use it (grandfathered)... but new applicants had to use the 40k only.

The New Rules today put back the 400K as an option... or 40k for HUSBAND ONLY.

TIT... No democracy, or Equality here.

CS

Just as an aside.... My wife applied for a USA Tourist Visa yesterday... Took her about 1 hour at the embassy.. maybe 1.5 hours...

She received her passport back in the mail today...

Inside the passport... a 10 YEAR Visa.

Next up, a Canadian Visa... I expecting even less problems there....

I'm living here almost 7 years, and I'm still sweating out my Visa every year !!!!!!

Leads me to ask myself.. Why do we put up with all this CRAP ?????

I'm lucky to be a Dual Can-US citzen...

I think this next trip back to visit the family will become a relocation investigation....

Toronto beckons .. with Free Health Care the moving Bonus.

CS

[exalll]

Sorry if this has been asked before ...

ThB 400,000 in a bank account ... previously I understood that this referred to ANY bank account. I have $1M+ in a Singapore bank account. I have nothing in a Thai bank account because I am not allowed to open a bank account on an 'O' visa (married to a Thai). So if I am supposed to have ThB 400,000 in a THAI bank account, but am not allowed to open a Thai bank account, how does this work?

[CosmicSurfer]

Sorry if this has been asked before ...

ThB 400,000 in a bank account ... previously I understood that this referred to ANY bank account. I have $1M+ in a Singapore bank account. I have nothing in a Thai bank account because I am not allowed to open a bank account on an 'O' visa (married to a Thai). So if I am supposed to have ThB 400,000 in a THAI bank account, but am not allowed to open a Thai bank account, how does this work?

This is NOT correct... You definately can open a Thai bank account on an "O" Visa...

I have 3 accounts in 2 banks.... Not counting my joint account with my wife... Opened BEFORE we were married and Before I got my "O".

If one bank says no.. Just try another... Maybe even the same Bank, just different bank.

If you have a problem, send me a PM and I'll tell you which branches are easier, and what to tell them, so they won't hassle you.

Chok Dee

CS

[exalll]

This is NOT correct... You definately can open a Thai bank account on an "O" Visa...

I have 3 accounts in 2 banks.... Not counting my joint account with my wife... Opened BEFORE we were married and Before I got my "O".

If one bank says no.. Just try another... Maybe even the same Bank, just different bank.

If you have a problem, send me a PM and I'll tell you which branches are easier, and what to tell them, so they won't hassle you.

Chok Dee

CS

Hi Cosmic Surfer ... well, thanks for the encouraging reply. Apologies that I have two similar posts on two similar threads going at the same time, so repeating what I said on the other thread ... at our local BKK bank they said (very politely) that foreigners on 'O' visas are not allowed to open bank accounts in order to eliminate money laundering (obviously it is only foreigners on 'O' visas who launder money!). My wife knows someone at BKK Bank HQ, so asked her to open an account for me, but she said she couldn't, for the same reason!

[rhino533]

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

For the last few years I have been getting my Non Imm O visa extensions using my wifes income, she is making over 40,000 baht a month and I have no income in Thailand. Using her income for the 40,000 baht a month requirment was ok. Never had a problem. From what I read it says the Husband (alien) must be making 40,000 baht a month. The law use to state the family income must be 40,000 a month. It didn't matter who made it, husband or wife. So does this mean I have to be making 40,000 a month even if my wife is already making over 40,000 a month??????

[CosmicSurfer]

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

For the last few years I have been getting my Non Imm O visa extensions using my wifes income, she is making over 40,000 baht a month and I have no income in Thailand. Using her income for the 40,000 baht a month requirment was ok. Never had a problem. From what I read it says the Husband (alien) must be making 40,000 baht a month. The law use to state the family income must be 40,000 a month. It didn't matter who made it, husband or wife. So does this mean I have to be making 40,000 a month even if my wife is already making over 40,000 a month??????

YUP

CS

[CosmicSurfer]

Hi Cosmic Surfer ... well, thanks for the encouraging reply. Apologies that I have two similar posts on two similar threads going at the same time, so repeating what I said on the other thread ... at our local BKK bank they said (very politely) that foreigners on 'O' visas are not allowed to open bank accounts in order to eliminate money laundering (obviously it is only foreigners on 'O' visas who launder money!). My wife knows someone at BKK Bank HQ, so asked her to open an account for me, but she said she couldn't, for the same reason!

I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a thread on Bank Account opening, so I'll send you a PM.

CS

Edited December 4, 2008 by CosmicSurfer

[larvidchr]

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Edited December 4, 2008 by huski
Inappropriate comment removed

[freddy]

This is quite possibly the final straw for me. I have lived here for 20 years, have a wonderful wife who I have been with for 17 years and a 14 year old daughter. The last time the visa rules were re-written we actually benefitted as the business I paid to set up gave my wife more than enough income to pay her taxes with and for me to get my 1 year extension, it now seems that this will not be good enough and our staying together will, once again, be at the whim of one of Thailands finest (sic), I have had enough and will now look for ways to leave Thailand taking my family with me. Once they are settled in the UK my wife will be able to work anywhere she wishes form the moment she arrives in the country and within a few years will be able to apply for UK citizenship. Of course, Thailand will be the net loser as usual but I would rather live in a country which, despite its awful weather and lack of eye candy, treats its citizens with respect and courtesy, with equal opportunities for all, a free health care system, airports that don't get taken over by hired thugs etc. etc. You get the point.

Adieu Thailand (land of the free.................ha ha)

[torrenova]

I guess I'll be off down immigration somewhere to convert my business visa into one based on having a kid but not being married and being under 50 years of age. If I wait, knowing my luck, I'll go to apply for it and they have reinterpreted the rules and find some way to disqualify me.

I am presuming that I stand a good chance of getting grandfathered in on the new current rules should they change them next Wednesday or next year !

Pity about te investment visa though. I think they missed a trick there, though could perhaps have gone to Bt5m.

[DavidS]

I got a 1 year extension in March based on income of Thai Wife. At the time, Imm had zero interest in my bank account. Fine, I could live with that and frankly, have better use for funds than to leave 400K sitting in a bank account.

My question is, when I go for the next extension in March 09, should I try for wife's income again?

I would hate to give up on that by using bank deposit qualification and forfeiting the 'right' (?) to revert to wife's income should they later raise the bank deposit requirement to 600K or 800K based on someones whim.

I had the impression grandfathering whenever rule changes were applied to this sort of category was pretty standard. If indeed it is not the case now, I cannot take any joy in qualifying this time around, because the rules may change next time.

For all those who face difficulty because of no grandfathering, my sympathy and I hope you manage to work through this somehow.

[tuktukracer]

Hi.

Read this entire monster thread but unsure on a couple of points.

I'm on a non-immigrant 0 visa currently and my stamp is good until Jan 7th. How long will I get when I go do my Visa run next. Normally I'd get 90 days. When do these new rules come into play?

I can show 40K income per month in a Thai bank so am considering the marraige visa option. What is not clear from reading this thread is how much income history you have to provide. I know for the 400K option you have to show it in Thai bank for at least 60 days but there's no mention of how long you have to show this 40K monthly income.

Thanks in advance!

[Basch]

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

For the last few years I have been getting my Non Imm O visa extensions using my wifes income, she is making over 40,000 baht a month and I have no income in Thailand. Using her income for the 40,000 baht a month requirment was ok. Never had a problem. From what I read it says the Husband (alien) must be making 40,000 baht a month. The law use to state the family income must be 40,000 a month. It didn't matter who made it, husband or wife. So does this mean I have to be making 40,000 a month even if my wife is already making over 40,000 a month??????

I am in the same situation, really wonder why they changed that. My wife's monthly tax alone is way more than 40.000 Baht, I really hope they can't be serious about wanting to see 40.000 baht from me as well now. Will check with some relatives who are in immigration asap...

Basch

[Lite Beer]

I'm on a non-immigrant 0 visa currently and my stamp is good until Jan 7th. How long will I get when I go do my Visa run next. Normally I'd get 90 days.

You will still get 90 days. There is no change.

I can show 40K income per month in a Thai bank so am considering the marraige visa option. What is not clear from reading this thread is how much income history you have to provide. I know for the 400K option you have to show it in Thai bank for at least 60 days but there's no mention of how long you have to show this 40K monthly income.

You have to get a letter from your Embassy for income from abroad and tax receipts from income in Thailand.

So it would be whatever your Embassy requires.

[wolfmanjack]

Well, the financial requirements for the one year permission to stay based on Thai Wife have been increased.

Whereas according to the old rules

"(6) In case of the applicant who is

married to a Thai wife, one of them

or both of them need to have the

total annual income that is

averaged out not less than 40,000

Baht per month. "

it is now:

"(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady , the husband who is an

alien must have an average annual income of not less than

40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank

of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses

within a year. "

I personally know Europeans that are married to a Thai wife and receive pensions of around 800 Euros and do not have any bigger savings.

They were only eligble for the extension to stay because their Thai wifes had jobs, that generated the money to fill the gap.

Well at least for this special situation there is also a new provision to handle the emerging problems:

"If an alien who has entered Thailand before this order came into force and has been

continuously granted temporary stay as clause 2.18(6), in case the marriage with Thai lady, is

found to lack the qualifications as prescribed in this order, the Commissioner of the

Immigration Bureau or competent official shall consider and decide on the particular case

based on the prevailing reasons and circumstances within 1 year from the effective date

hereof. "

Maybe they will have a look whether the farang has already build a house in Isaan.

But in general: Thailand more and more looses interest in the average situated Farang husband of Thai wife.

P.S. Could someone tell the translators about the widely spread connotations people have with "Thai Lady" instead of "Thai Wfe", not to mention the Thai Ladyboy.

In my opinion this is a big improvement for Men with Thai Wives.

Actually in this case they gave with one hand and took away with another. I was about to apply for an extension based on marriage next week. For the past year i have been running over 40,000 per month through my wifes checking account that i have signatory rights on for the purpose of the either or part that was in affect before. Now they took the either or part out. I have been paying taxes on 40,000 baht per month but only have an account in my wife's name to back up the income flow.

I am going to try and go for the father of a thai child extension since they took out the part about having to be 50 years old and it now has the either or both parents clause in it.

[LivinginKata]

I'm off to Phuket immigration on Monday 8 Dec 2008 for another one year extension based on marriage to a Thai. Bit worried as our paperwork is set up for 40,000 baht/month JOINT income. I only have 30,000 baht/month income in Thailand. Also have more than 400,000 baht in Thai bank, BUT that balance only for about one month. I'm sure that Immigation will knock back my application back. I have plenty money in my overseas bank. My question is - will Immigration accept my overseas bank account ???

[rowyco]

Trying to find more info on Police Order 777/2551 I googled around, but only found this forum mentioning it (besides it also being part of some US phone number...). Isn't it crazy (or just 3 times hurray for the Thaivisa people... ...) that it is not (first) mentioned on any Government site like www,immigration,go,th (I know, comma's instead of dots, the forum does not accept URL's), properly introduced an then discussed???

Kind regards,

Niels

I found this link via another forum when I did a search. Just download the pdf.

[wolfmanjack]

General Comment:

Remember that Thailand has absolutely no obligation to cater to foreigners personal desires when it comes to making changes to Thai law.

I'm pretty sure most people here would get righteously indignant if foreigners in their home country were continuously bitching and moaning about the laws of that country.

Funny how that old "double standard" thing works eh ?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as I am concerned you can bitch about the laws in my home country all you want since i bitch about them also.

As far as the visa situation is concerned I believe that most people bitch about their home country letting in people that have no ties to a citizen in the country and end up on public assistance. I personally have no problem with my home country letting people that have a high enough income to support themselves, no matter what their age, reside their.

[soundman]

Actually in this case they gave with one hand and took away with another. I was about to apply for an extension based on marriage next week. For the past year i have been running over 40,000 per month through my wifes checking account that i have signatory rights on for the purpose of the either or part that was in affect before. Now they took the either or part out. I have been paying taxes on 40,000 baht per month but only have an account in my wife's name to back up the income flow.

I am going to try and go for the father of a thai child extension since they took out the part about having to be 50 years old and it now has the either or both parents clause in it.

So, I'm married to Thai with children, last year my extension was based on family income, this year, if I want to extend my visa based on marriage to a Thai, I have to show the "husband 40k Baht per month income", not family income, however, if I want to extend my visa based on Thai children, I have to show:

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of family relationship

(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de

jure (legitimate) and de facto;

(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or

Is this correct?

[Lite Beer]

Actually in this case they gave with one hand and took away with another. I was about to apply for an extension based on marriage next week. For the past year i have been running over 40,000 per month through my wifes checking account that i have signatory rights on for the purpose of the either or part that was in affect before. Now they took the either or part out. I have been paying taxes on 40,000 baht per month but only have an account in my wife's name to back up the income flow.

I am going to try and go for the father of a thai child extension since they took out the part about having to be 50 years old and it now has the either or both parents clause in it.

So, I'm married to Thai with children, last year my extension was based on family income, this year, if I want to extend my visa based on marriage to a Thai, I have to show the "husband 40k Baht per month income", not family income, however, if I want to extend my visa based on Thai children, I have to show:

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of family relationship

(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de

jure (legitimate) and de facto;

(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or

Is this correct?

No. Not quite. 5. Applies to you, not 4.

(5) In the case of a parent, one of parents must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

In other necessary circumstances, The Immigration Commissioner or Deputy of Immigration Commissioner may approve on case to case basis.

You could probably still get it on your Marriage using the same requirements as you did last time. There is a mention of the Immigration Officer having some discretion for previous applicants. But it is not very clear.

6. If an alien who has entered Thailand before this order came into force and has been continuously granted temporary stay as clause 2.18(6), in case the marriage with Thai lady, is found to lack the qualifications as prescribed in this order, the Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau or competent official shall consider and decide on the particular case based on the prevailing reasons and circumstances within 1 year from the effective date hereof

[Mario2008]

6. If an alien who has entered Thailand before this order came into force and has been continuously granted temporary stay as clause 2.18(6), in case the marriage with Thai lady, is found to lack the qualifications as prescribed in this order, the Commissioner of the Immigration Bureau or competent official shall consider and decide on the particular case based on the prevailing reasons and circumstances within 1 year from the effective date hereof.

It could mean that the descretionary powers of the immigration officer are only for the first year of the new rules. After that no more descretionary powers and everybody will have to fit the rules.

As we know, even when the regulations are set in stone. Different offices will have different interpretations of the rules. So this section does not fill you with confidence does it?

It is a shame that foreign Men were not given the same rights as foreign Ladies . That surely must be wrong.

That's my rant for the night.

Your right Lite Beer, this provision doesn't fill me with confidence. The fact that old cases are not grandfathered and the wording suggests to me that this is just a temporary escape clause, at the whimp of your local immigration office.

About the gender differences I have the same same thoughts. Maybe I will open a new tread on that one later.

Edit:

Saw someone already did: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Class-Action...at-t227610.html

Edited December 5, 2008 by Mario2008

[JimGant]

I think its a shame that they have changed the income requirement for visa based on marriage to just the husband, once again I cannot see the benefit,

Hmmm. Sounds like Immigration has been reading this forum. There have been multiple discussions about how to have the wife 'earn' income. One, you could actually pay her 40k/mo for services rendered -- and with head held high, declare this income for Thai tax purposes (and in order to show Immigration the tax receipt). Or, two, fake it. Just have her pay taxes on a bogus 40k/mo. Tax folks will gladly accept the money based on this say-so. You still end up with a tax receipt to show Immigration. Maybe Immigration became the wiser........

Now, with the new rule of 800k going for only 60 days in the bank for the initial retirement extension......... Immigration apparently also wised up about not being able to have 90 days in the bank for initial extension, if you came in on a Non Imm O and immediately opened a bank account -- because your 90 day stamp would expire before you met the 90 days in the bank criteria. Result: single entry Non Imm O visas wouldn't work; and even Non Imm O multiple entry visas would require a border run. The 60 day rule for initial extension would fix this.

I just wonder how the '21 days remaining on entry stamp' rule plays out now. Remember, you had to have this number of days remaining on your entry stamp in order to convert a visa exempt entry (TM87) into a Non Imm O visa for the purposes of getting one-year extensions of stay. So, now, if you enter Thailand by pack mule, you only get 15 days........

So, maybe, they want you to enter by airplane........ (But, if so, why do they shutter the airports )

[wolfmanjack]

Actually in this case they gave with one hand and took away with another. I was about to apply for an extension based on marriage next week. For the past year i have been running over 40,000 per month through my wifes checking account that i have signatory rights on for the purpose of the either or part that was in affect before. Now they took the either or part out. I have been paying taxes on 40,000 baht per month but only have an account in my wife's name to back up the income flow.

I am going to try and go for the father of a thai child extension since they took out the part about having to be 50 years old and it now has the either or both parents clause in it.

So, I'm married to Thai with children, last year my extension was based on family income, this year, if I want to extend my visa based on marriage to a Thai, I have to show the "husband 40k Baht per month income", not family income, however, if I want to extend my visa based on Thai children, I have to show:

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of family relationship

(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de

jure (legitimate) and de facto;

(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or

Is this correct?

No. Not quite. 5. Applies to you, not 4.

(5) In the case of a parent, one of parents must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

In other necessary circumstances, The Immigration Commissioner or Deputy of Immigration Commissioner may approve on case to case basis.

You could probably still get it on your Marriage using the same requirements as you did last time. There is a mention of the Immigration Officer having some discretion for previous applicants. But it is not very clear.

In previous posts it was said that for 1 year the officers can approve the extension based on the same same criteria granted last year but next year that would put you back in the same boat as me. If i read this correctly an extension based on children the 50 year old requirement has been removed and the parents combined income has been added.

[Mario2008]

I just wonder how the '21 days remaining on entry stamp' rule plays out now. Remember, you had to have this number of days remaining on your entry stamp in order to convert a visa exempt entry (TM87) into a Non Imm O visa for the purposes of getting one-year extensions of stay. So, now, if you enter Thailand by pack mule, you only get 15 days........

So, maybe, they want you to enter by airplane........ (But, if so, why do they shutter the airports )

There is a lot of speculation abouit the new visa exempt entry rules, but without a proper translation of the whole document it remains just that, a lot of speculation. Many things are still unclear.

[amphur]

This 400K in the bank is good for me.

Does this one year stay (extension) also comes with the multiple entry?

[LivinginKata]

This 400K in the bank is good for me.

Does this one year stay (extension) also comes with the multiple entry?

No, you have to apply fro a re-entry permit at 1,000 baht a pop, or 3,500 baht for multi entry.