k1w1 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Does anyone know if the performers that were on stage at the time were able to get out or not? It begs the question because if they could get out then the other people at the front should have been able to get out too. The problem is there are several reports that the majority of bodies were found at the pit next to the stage. Does this mean the live act just jumped up and left as soon as the fire started? Shouldn't they have been attempting to direct people out the various exits as they should have known the layout of the club fairly well at least enough to navigate in the dark... Where were the other trained staff with flashlights to direct the crowd? What about the bouncers? Were they able to assist at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Where were the other trained staff with flashlights to direct the crowd?What about the bouncers? Were they able to assist at all? Most of your questions are not answerable yet (and may never be), but it has been reported that it was the staff that knew about the exits in back and used them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treborz Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) I read somewhere that the band were able to get out via a rear exit. I imagine most customers were not aware of this exit and tried to escape through the way they came in. It's very sad. Edited January 1, 2009 by Treborz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onethailand Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Two DJs were on Channel 9 just now - and apparently the smoke was so thick you couldn't see your hand in front of your face - so I highly doubt they could've been of much help in any case. But the same questions were put to them by the Channel 9 news team - one was actually outside at the time - the second said he was just lucky - and got out through some sort of metal fencing, not through the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceboy Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 What a sad event. RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesjdaly Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 My wife and I both pledged each other that if we ever go out or stay in a hotel, we will check the nearest fire exits first. Please do the same. I know it sounds a bit silly, but it may well save your life. Imagine you are in a firetrap like MBK and a large fire broke out and you didn't know where the exits were!! hel_l on earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aromsia Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) Thai TV3 (in Thai of course) in late evening bulletin just reported that death toll still at 59. They also said the club's owner hasn't been contactable (sounded like a Thai name to us) and whereabouts unknown (this is what they said). They also (confirmed) reports that the club was on its last night (as others have said). Now then...if the Thai TV channels are reporting this issue about ownership and end of lease, let's hope we can start to discuss this a bit more! Doesn't mean there was any ill intent...but people clearly want to know as much as possible! Edit to fix typos Edited January 1, 2009 by aromsia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumball Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Horse Doctor,Well it's a sad time when we discuss the supposed origins of the fire and appotion blame, before there is an official report, you just threw in speculation, no this is not a forum for this, start a 'thread' entitled safety, then go into the rhymm and reason of others... It makes me marvel that your countrymen are being killed in the Middle East, yet you raise objections on this site...........???????? Please remember that 61 people died, many Thais are going to Temples to pray for them. Perhaps you can do the same................. I can probably associate wth your compassion for the lives lost , but there is a far greater carnage going on as we speak on the streets of Thailand and not too many lining up at the temples to pray for them . Loss of life is a daily occurance with few concerned about what to do about it if anything , settle down and be happy with the life you have , THIS IS THAILAND . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlBkk Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 So far, 18 victims have been identified as: 1) Supol Mekkrai 2) Boonyarat Saenmueangchin 3) Charnwit Wutthilert-anan 4) Rungnaphachai Chaiprasert 5) Leelawadee Wanthoen 6) Chalermchon Boonprom 7) Sumalee Meksup 8) Praew Aiyara 9) Kanthida Winothai 10) Meesak Kaewla-iad 11) Krit Narai 12) Karn Krasri 13) Pornthipa Buamak 14) Yossathorn Kuphaphan 15) Tharapol Wangthaweewong 16) Samit Yindeethammakij 17) Torsak Yuto 18) Surasak Wanwisetkul 19) Arthit Theppathaamanurak 20) Suparirk Pattanasin 21) Panya Chaiysasit 22) Walaya Samkong 23) Chakchai Nuamcharoen 24) Apichaya Sirikamol 25) Kasidis Mueandej 26) Jiraphat Kleebmek 27) Thiwaskorn Pinthabutr 28) Teo Sze Siong, a Singaporean man The Nation Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/01...es_30092285.php For big bands, Roman Candles were used when I was there. Security try to get people to move away from them but they are lit very close to the edge of the stage and when it's packed, impossible for people to move back. It could likely be these or similar entertainment fireworks that set ablaze the ceiling and lighting, causing it to crash down. Most victims were girls it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnarpjohan Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 You would think club owners would pay attention to stories like this and make sure their own venues are adequate in terms of fire escapes and precautions. I have a vain hope that fire security will be much improved after disasters like this. But I honestly doubt it, TiT: lives are cheap and there's always the option of paying off the police or whoever is in charge of inspections to save a few baht. Not denying that similar disasters happen in other countries for lack of clear escape routes for instance. RIP, if I was a believer I'd say a prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomNamNah Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) Joey Boy on stage, hope he is ok, met him once. bbc vids here, sorry if repost. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7807281.stm polystyrene on the roof? why? Edited January 1, 2009 by SomNamNah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snuggzzz Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Irrespective of 'Niggles' let us give thanks for life, I never wanted to offend anyone, those that have died need their families to recieve due respect in the early stages, not the unfounded rehtoric of this site. Consider this............... We may have lost members of this site that contributed advice and worthwhile information ............................. So behave yourselves Chaps, let us be respectful to the recently departed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aromsia Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks to the poster above with the list of names. What many foreigners may not realize is that list of 28 names has at least a dozen chinese-thai names (for those that don't know, they are often the merchant class - and also bear in mind this is a rich area of town). There are at least two names (maybe three) that are considered "hi-so" - maybe even aristocratic. WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT: When a 'smaller' tragey (if I can call it that) occurs - like the rape or shooting of foreign tourists here (last year an off-duty cop shot a couple of Canadians), or a fire rips through a shanty area of Bangkok, it often gets forgotten, downplayed or even willfully neglected (some say). The fact that this occured in a "Hi-So" area with the sons and daughters of "people of means" on that list, means a real dillema for Bangkok and Thai courts (usually rich or influential people don't end up in prison here - so what happens if the owners are equally hi-so and well-connected?). There will need to be vengeance - a court sentence or death for those responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1w1 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 According to a person interviewed on BBC it took the rescue workers almost 30 minutes to get vehicles through because many people tried to drive off the parking lot when the fire started and blocked the exit. What a selfish thing to do. Putting your car first before the lives of others. So lame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlBkk Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks to the poster above with the list of names.What many foreigners may not realize is that list of 28 names has at least a dozen chinese-thai names (for those that don't know, they are often the merchant class - and also bear in mind this is a rich area of town). There are at least two names (maybe three) that are considered "hi-so" - maybe even aristocratic. WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT: When a 'smaller' tragey (if I can call it that) occurs - like the rape or shooting of foreign tourists here (last year an off-duty cop shot a couple of Canadians), or a fire rips through a shanty area of Bangkok, it often gets forgotten, downplayed or even willfully neglected (some say). The fact that this occured in a "Hi-So" area with the sons and daughters of "people of means" on that list, means a real dillema for Bangkok and Thai courts (usually rich or influential people don't end up in prison here - so what happens if the owners are equally hi-so and well-connected?). There will need to be vengeance - a court sentence or death for those responsible. No-pne's going to get death for this tragedy. It's either negligence on the owner's part for handing out fireworks (if that happened) or allowing indoor stage fireworks without having the necessary fire-prevention, or it will be put down as a terrible accident. It's too early to say exact causes. There are no names in that list who are of real hi-so status - although quite a few are Thai-Chinese the club is a real mix of people from freelancers on there days off to wealthy older guys with their gigs to young inter wealthy groups of students. If an accident like this happened at Muse or Jet, some big names would have been making some big noise by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aromsia Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Have another look - and I didn't say death 'penalty'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G54 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Canmnot see mention of it, but so many posts on this. Seems 4 Brits injured according to my Yahoo page. Talk of maybe 1 Teacher died but unconfirmed. Names 2 of them :- Alex Wargacki, 29, from London Steven Hall, from South Wales http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20090101/tuk-f...no-6323e80.html Still a sad day for a group of people out wanting to celebrate seeing in the New Year and being caught up in this tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k1w1 Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 The fact that this occured in a "Hi-So" area with the sons and daughters of "people of means" on that list, means a real dillema for Bangkok and Thai courts (usually rich or influential people don't end up in prison here - so what happens if the owners are equally hi-so and well-connected?). There will need to be vengeance - a court sentence or death for those responsible. In this case it will be a question of who has more influence with the police and who is prepared to make/take a payoff to let the issue go... No one will be receiving the death penalty as that is only for people who cannot get off otherwise. It's more likely that the people/families who are affected will be threatened with death if they attempt to seek retribution. We can expect some press coverage if things are not dealt with well by the offending parties and the blame will be passed around like a hot potato until the press stop reporting... We can assume that if the head of the fire safety dept is a Dem s/he will be hunted by the reds or vice versa for allowing corruption in the ranks. Depending on which side you are on the PM has been either sympathizing with the injured/family and friends of the deceased or been using the event for political mileage. So many burn victims means that there may be a large number of injured and traumatized party goers out of the Bangkok scene for a while too. Although on that one I'm not sure as there are probably lots of playaz who will try to use it as another way to score. "Oh yeah, I was in the fire. My car almost got damaged. I'm so lucky..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfred Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Seems 4 Brits injured according to my Yahoo page. Talk of maybe 1 Teacher died but unconfirmed.Names 2 of them :- Alex Wargacki, 29, from London Steven Hall, from South Wales The other 2 Brits: Oliver Smart, 35 Adam Butler, 26 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...ed-him-out.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) Maybe Thailand could learn from other countries very similar tragedies. A very similar fire caused by pyrotechnics with many more deaths in Buenos Aires in 2004. After this fire, the government took heavy handed measures to CLOSE NIGHTCLUBS until safety standards could be fully met. Will that happen in Thailand? We know the answer. WHY NOT????? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rep%C3%BAblic..._nightclub_fire Edited January 1, 2009 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locturian Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Maybe Thailand could learn from other countries very similar tragedies. A very similar fire caused by pyrotechnics with many more deaths in Buenos Aires in 2004. After this fire, the government took heavy handed measures to CLOSE NIGHTCLUBS until safety standards could be fully met. Will that happen in Thailand? We know the answer. WHY NOT?????http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rep%C3%BAblic..._nightclub_fire And when will airlines start to put in gian parashutes into their aircraft? Well - Never... Why? Cause its cheaper to pay everyone money in case something goes wrong, than to upgrade all the aircrafts... It's all about cost/benefit... Sadly safety has never been a big concern in Thailand, and human life does not count for alot, unless it is someone very powerful that dies... I love Thailand, and the Thai people, but this is just a fact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 This is a terrible tragedy, many reports say there was only one exit (the entrance), yet others say there were up to eight emergency exits but people did not know where they were. Other reports say that the owner is not contactable and whereabouts unknown, do hope he/she/they have not already done a runner, I do recall hearing that the owners of the of the Royal Jomtien were out the country before the fire had been put out (not exactly sure if true), but hope the same has not happened again. I look forward to an in depth enquiry, if actions were deliberate then hope murder charges follow, if it turns out to be negligence, and/or government officials bribed to not enforce safety standards then manslaughter charges should follow. I do not want to see people rot in prison as some form of sadism but more of a deterrent to others for neglecting safety or others for giving/receiving payments to look the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibreaker Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 It just puzzles me what the PM just said after visiting Santika, if my translation is up to date: The fire started because of some fireworks lit up inside, and that they should not do. First, isn`t it illegal to use fireworks indoors in Thailand? Shouldn`t he just say that it is forbidden used inside? And second, so much for ongoing investigations, this statement just shows that the cause of the fire is determined. A sad tragedy, my condolences to all involved. RIP all the victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Maybe Thailand could learn from other countries very similar tragedies. A very similar fire caused by pyrotechnics with many more deaths in Buenos Aires in 2004. After this fire, the government took heavy handed measures to CLOSE NIGHTCLUBS until safety standards could be fully met. Will that happen in Thailand? We know the answer. WHY NOT?????http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rep%C3%BAblic..._nightclub_fire And when will airlines start to put in gian parashutes into their aircraft? Well - Never... Why? Cause its cheaper to pay everyone money in case something goes wrong, than to upgrade all the aircrafts... It's all about cost/benefit... Sadly safety has never been a big concern in Thailand, and human life does not count for alot, unless it is someone very powerful that dies... I love Thailand, and the Thai people, but this is just a fact... For most air accidents, parachutes would have been of no use, sudden break-up of A/C in mid air, crashing on take-off/landing, and how many people could use one? The air industry does at least learn from it's mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJo Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Very very sad....I have been living here for 17 years and the fear of being in a fire like this one has been with me a long time. I lived in a large well known condo at one time and I discovered that the sprinker systen through out the building allthough looked like the real deal, was in fact a system that must be charged by the fire dept. when they arrive to fight the fire....I wonder how many buildings if not most have the same set up......Prayers to all the people involved in this nightmare... Good point, how many of us are taking the risk daily of living in an apartment or house that has not fire detectors/alarms installed? Even if you rent out it does not cost much to buy and install yourself. Back in europe you can get one as cheap as 200 baht. Cheapest and most effective insurance policy you can ever take. Will wake you up before the fire really gets going and sprinklers etc are activated. Just if knew where to buy in Thailand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat-global Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) First, isn`t it illegal to use fireworks indoors in Thailand? Shouldn`t he just say that it is forbidden used inside? Of course it's illegal. In Thailand, the problem is not what's legal and what's illegal. This issue is *enforcement*. The same applies to the electrical code, being that the most common source of fires in Thailand seems to be electrical faults. You can still find new places being built with 2-prong electrical outlets even though the electric code has required 3-prong grounded/earthed outlets for many years now. There's a difference between "as designed" and "as built", but costs are cut and people sign off anyway. Even the places which have 3 prongs are often done wrong, such as not a true ground (maybe a wire screwed into a cement wall), and/or polarity wrong between neutral and load, and/or improper breakers. Bad electricity causes a lot of fires and kills a lot of people, too. Many have died by electricution, too. How many times have you had little shocks in Thailand which you didn't get back home? That just a small reminder, the tip of the iceberg. The same "enforcement" issue also applies to environmental damage by pollution, whaling and fishing species to extinction, and so on. It's not just Thailand. If you look at the laws in Thailand, they are actually very good and mostly world class. However, enforcement seems to be near the opposite extreme. Due diligence, vigilence, vigilantes ... what's the practical solution? Edited January 1, 2009 by expat-global Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johpa Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 this is so bad. i can see the rubble that was sanitka from my balcony, but all i can hear is some awful luk thuung karaoke from a new year's day party that is happening just metres from where the fire took place. i truly doubt this tragedy will change anything. so sad. It is a sad day for those who knew victims and I extend my condolences, but at least there are still people singing luuk thung songs on the New Year and hope remains. By the way, I doubt anyone singing luuk thung songs would have likely ever entered the Santika or be connected to the powers tasked with establishing and/or enforcing fire codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I see a lot of posters criticizing Thailand, its authorities and the establishment owners themselves. Although it is obvious that many things can and should be changed with regard to safety aspects in Thailand, just where does personal accountability come into play here? Stop asking for and/or counting on government officials and business owners to babysit you, ultimately each person has the most influence upon their own safety and making the prudent decisions about such are your responsibility. If you don't like the arrangement of a certain establishment's exits.....leave. If you walk into a situation that is overcrowded.....leave. Take responsibility for your own safety and stop counting on or demanding from other people that they assure safety for you. I have left many overcrowded establishments, changed taxis and even avoided certain places at certain times because it was prudent to do so in the name of safety. None of those people deserved what happened to them and it is a tragedy in anyone's book. Instead of looking for who to blame and criticize, take a minute and realize it is up to yourself to avoid these situations and assure (as much as possible) your own safety. Let us hope that all societies learn from the tragedy but seeing that this has happened before in many other countries, it is doubtful that we, as the human race, will be wise enough to learn from history. Regards to all! Martian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
permanent_disorder Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks to the poster above with the list of names.What many foreigners may not realize is that list of 28 names has at least a dozen chinese-thai names (for those that don't know, they are often the merchant class - and also bear in mind this is a rich area of town). There are at least two names (maybe three) that are considered "hi-so" - maybe even aristocratic. WHY THAT'S IMPORTANT: When a 'smaller' tragey (if I can call it that) occurs - like the rape or shooting of foreign tourists here (last year an off-duty cop shot a couple of Canadians), or a fire rips through a shanty area of Bangkok, it often gets forgotten, downplayed or even willfully neglected (some say). The fact that this occured in a "Hi-So" area with the sons and daughters of "people of means" on that list, means a real dillema for Bangkok and Thai courts (usually rich or influential people don't end up in prison here - so what happens if the owners are equally hi-so and well-connected?). There will need to be vengeance - a court sentence or death for those responsible. it was the new years night. the party night. and suddendly the venue was on fire. 61 died. brothers and sisters, daughter and sons, friends. dead. they go for party and got horror. terrible, tragic, sad. don't blame them for their family names that they make the "news". have you ever been there? santika, thonglor, ekkamai, the "rich area of town"? that are normal people. don't get so crazy about that they got called "hi-so". they are city kids, students, office worker, sales promoter, property sales girls and a few lung/uncles who still feel young, a healthy mix of people want having a good time and not worst case of uptight bourgeois or only mega super rich "VIPs". little bit pretentious and shallow maybe. but mostly down to earth, common people. friendly thais. and death as venegance? do you know enough of somebodys guilt to make such a call? death sentence for what? would that change anything, reverse things back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat-global Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Let us hope that all societies learn from the tragedy but seeing that this has happened before in many other countries, it is doubtful that we, as the human race, will be wise enough to learn from history. We can never eliminate all tragedies, and that should not be a goal. Nonetheless, we can seize the day to partially learn from mistakes and chip away at improving enforcement. If the reaction to this results in a little more enforcement, then it may save a lot more lives. Maybe a whole lot. Not all lives, of course, but many lives is good enough. In the mid-1990s, there was a series of major electrical fires around Bangkok. That resulted in some improvement of inspections. There are many packed nightclubs in Bangkok, so you take your risks when you attend. Most deaths in fires are due to the air and smoke, not the heat. Of course, there are risks in everything when you walk out your front door... It's amazing that nobody in the loop stopped the fireworks from being fired. But stage performances often have pyrotechnics ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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