by the way, someone asked where Im getting the idea that China's population is poor

I could reverse the question and ask where you get the idea that the majority of them are rich????

and yes, there are people in various rural parts who are starving.

lots of articles you can find on that. but here is one that might give some idea?

China's rural poverty line far below international standard

I won't argue that China doesn't have a lot of poor people. I just want to attest to the fact that they all aren't poor. I lived 2 months in Guang Zhou (actually, Panyu) in Clifford Estates, a gated community of 100,000. It was one of several in the area and the people there definitely weren't poor. They wouldn't have one of these around if they were...

and thats the problem I think

people (foreigners) mostly see the more affluent population in the bigger cities, but never really see what goes on the rural areas

and often its not just foreigners...but even the locals overlook things

its the same as when I met educated Malaysians and told them about impoverished women that live in squatters around the city and their plight, they think Im mistaken and cant be talking about Malaysia cos such a thing cannot be happening.

and some might even be ignorant.

I remember a few years ago, another Thai friend and I were overseas, and having conversation with people from many countries. one question came up about cars, what is the most common car in your country?

her answer was Mercedes :rolleyes" and she actually really thought that. simply cos she lives in an affluent part of Bangkok, and somehow is oblivious to anything else or other cars on the road, let alone the conditions and life outside of Bangkok

and thats the problem I think

people (foreigners) mostly see the more affluent population in the bigger cities, but never really see what goes on the rural areas

and often its not just foreigners...but even the locals overlook things

its the same as when I met educated Malaysians and told them about impoverished women that live in squatters around the city and their plight, they think Im mistaken and cant be talking about Malaysia cos such a thing cannot be happening.

and some might even be ignorant.

I remember a few years ago, another Thai friend and I were overseas, and having conversation with people from many countries. one question came up about cars, what is the most common car in your country?

her answer was Mercedes :rolleyes" and she actually really thought that. simply cos she lives in an affluent part of Bangkok, and somehow is oblivious to anything else or other cars on the road, let alone the conditions and life outside of Bangkok

True. I was watching excerpts today of Oprah walking through Copenhagen with some Danish woman telling her how wonderful everything was and Oprah almost had an orgasm right there on the cobblestones. Then I recalled a Danish friend telling me how about almost every night in the less affluent parts of Copenhagen there were street fights between Danish kids like his son and the Muslims. Not all the roads are paved in gold even there either (although the center of Copenhagen is beautiful).

and thats the problem I think

people (foreigners) mostly see the more affluent population in the bigger cities, but never really see what goes on the rural areas

and often its not just foreigners...but even the locals overlook things

its the same as when I met educated Malaysians and told them about impoverished women that live in squatters around the city and their plight, they think Im mistaken and cant be talking about Malaysia cos such a thing cannot be happening.

MiG, it isn't about how many deadly poor people there still are, whether in China, Malaysia or...Africa.*

In the first example it is also about the 100's of millions of people who moved out from poverty into a better life since shortly.

Of course there are still many poor people left but what can one expect in 20-30 years?

* Africa has an area which is three times larger than China, yet just 1 Billion people and if we start talking poverty and problems in Africa, well, we wouldn't be finished with Christmas would we?

If, in the future China will become to expensive to manufacture certain products, Africa is the next step. Dutch flower growers are already in Africa**, sending millions of flowers out of the continent on a daily basis and thus help improving living conditions for the rural poor also.

It's all in the game: if westerners do not buy flowers anymore (and they DO less since the crisis) income will decrease for Africans also.

** and China also.

LaoPo

If, in the future China will become to expensive to manufacture certain products, Africa is the next step. Dutch flower growers are already in Africa**, sending millions of flowers out of the continent on a daily basis and thus help improving living conditions for the rural poor also.

The future is now. A friend's company in China exports products to Russia. Last year I joined him on a business trip to Vietnam to find some new suppliers for a specific product because the Chinese were already getting too expensive.

If, in the future China will become to expensive to manufacture certain products, Africa is the next step. Dutch flower growers are already in Africa**, sending millions of flowers out of the continent on a daily basis and thus help improving living conditions for the rural poor also.

The future is now. A friend's company in China exports products to Russia. Last year I joined him on a business trip to Vietnam to find some new suppliers for a specific product because the Chinese were already getting too expensive.

Oh, absolutely. I agree; that's why I said certain products, not all. Shoes, for instance, are produced in large quantities in Vietnam also.

Even within China, in Guangzhou province for instance, production moves more North-West towards Chengdu area and Far North since GZ is becoming too expensive.

It's not too dramatic yet because the crisis made many millions jobless but manufacturing is growing fast again, also for local demand since the government promoted spending.

The latter is a necessity since Chinese belong the the highest income-savers in the world. It's normal that people save 30% or even more from their income, no matter how low or high.

LaoPo

I pack my dear lady wife off on the train every Monday to GZ to work ( the silence by Tuesday is truly wonderful ).

She gripes all and every weekend about the cost of living now in major Chinese cities being higher than Hong Kong !!!

She works for the Li and Fung Group in their new IPO Trinity, which sells high end ( and I mean high end ) men's wear all across China.

The cost of a Kent & What's his name suit in China ?

Two and a Half times the price they can get in HK. The wheel has turned big time.

As for colonization. China has been doing it for years in the best Ghandiesk way. They are behind just about every major infra-structure project in developing Africa, and even down to the very mundane, as an example for all you Aussies and Yanks; take a good luck at the " flip flops" you are wearing down to the beach. irrespective of the brand or where it states they are made on the bottom, the basic construction is made in massive factories in Nigeria, you guessed it owned by our beloved Chinese.

They even have your thongs covered.