For All Who Complain About "farang" Pricing

[dave9988]

Double pricing is such integrated in Thai society, that Farangs are hiding themselves and let the mias ...

Hey, don't forget that the mias have dual pricing too!

"For my farang husbang, I charge this; but for my thai husbang I get (or give!) ..."

So how long did it take you to figure it out and divorce her?

[NaiGreg]

What a bunch of fruit-cakes posting about racism and dual-pricing ... The myth of racist "farang-tier" pricing needs to be dispelled.

Here is a park sign you will never see:

Fantastic prices for us, the ethnic Tai. [Except Tai-yai; All Burmese go back to your hut, immediately.]

For all others:

400 baht for the pasty-whites (tanned or otherwise)

200 baht for Chinese without amulet; 100 if wearing amulet.

Khaek (Indians) Three-times your annual salary or 1000 baht, whichever is higher.

Arabs & Africans. Sorry the park is full. Please come back tomorrow.

(Note to reception: If farang speaks Thai, pretend you don't understand and charge 500 baht.)

The conspiracy theorists (who cannot read Thai) will tell you this is what the signs say. I'm here to tell you it just ain't so, Joe.

It really looks (something) like this:

Entrance Fees:

Non-residents 400 baht.

Thai citizens 50 baht.

Children Free

--------------------

Why do non-residents pay such a high price? It's not racism. It is usually due to the fact that some officials believe that the non-resident price is the same (fair?) price one would pay in the visitors' home countries. It may not be sound logic, but it is NOT racism.

-NG

[mazd2]

Non-residents 400 baht.

Thai citizens 50 baht.

Children Free

No difference. It's still discrimination to charge one person one price, and another person a different price, just because one is richer than the other.

If they want to charge rich people more money, then why don't they charge rich Thai's more money also?

<deleted>.

Edited January 18, 2009 by mazd2

[MiG16]

Im merging this topic with the other one already running.

please do not start a new topic to continue current discussion.

thanks

[JimsKnight]

do u really not understand the difference between having different prices for locals (who in the case of sports arenas and theme parks probably lent the money to the companies via tax dollars) and different races?

if someone wants to run their business this way, i dont really care all that much, but it does speak to their character as a human being.

i cant imagine being the manager in one of these establishments and having a farang and Thai come in and ask the price.

"Oh for you its this much and for you its that much".

"Why?"

"Because of your skin color".

I'd be too embarrassed honestly.

Its not different races!!! I'm "local" - I'm white, work here, pay my taxes, have a work permit and a driving licence, and I get in (National Park for example) for the local price.

Really? How you do that then? Shoe polish?

I speak to them in Thai and show my driving licence - no problem.

Ridiculous boasting.

Next time you are in BKK let me know if your strategy works also at, let's say, Wat Phra Kaeo.

He's right, it's getting harder and harder to use the driving license trick to get local prices.

Even in far-off Pala-u Falls It was only with fancy talking (in thai) and driving license could I get the local price (at 40 baht) instead of 200 baht!

She said that a lot of places now are not accepted thai driving license for discount.

Probably because there are fewer tourists coming???

[TheWalkingMan]

I still think that a lot of the dual pricing is just a scam to extract more baht from non-Thai people. However, if a public facility has been funded by tax dollars, then I can understand some sort of price differential. But something that is 5-10 times more costly for a non-Thai is way past a joke.

That being said, I think that it is horrendous for private companies to try this. Recently I have been looking into cooking schools and found, what I think is, a good one. Run by the Dusit and not cheap. For the 9 month course locals pay 450k Baht and others pay 540k Baht. A 90k baht difference! If someone can explain to me why a brand name company participates in this dual pricing madness I will be somewhat happy. Any takers?

TheWalkingMan

[henryalleman]

In my home town, all museums owned by the town are entrance free for the inhabitants of the town. it doesn't matter if you black white , yellow or green, have Belgian , Chinese or from Papoea new guinea. This is also so for Museums of private institutions, the town subsidize them so, also free for inhabitants. People from outside the town have to pay, even when you have the Belgian nationality.

It seems that every time ‘dual pricing’ comes up we get somebody from a European country giving an example from home to suggest this is common everywhere. Actually there has been a drive in recent years to root out this practice across the EU. As far as I can see there are examples where discriminatory pricing still occurs, but organizations that wish, for example, to favour local residents have to package this indirectly. This might involve a card from the local government authority that gives discounted admission to a range of attractions or discount vouchers in the local newspaper. When it comes to the legal principles, my reading is that EU law prohibits the kind of dual pricing we see in Thailand.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUri...93J0045:EN:HTML

http://www.europa-kommissionen.dk/eu-polit...eumsdom/presse/

http://www.sofiaecho.com/article/stop-fore...d_10017/catid_5

The example I did refer to is in no way in contradiction with the EU rules, because its no dual pricing, because free entrance is a "gift or present" for for local inhabitants regardless race, gender, nationality, age or sexual preference.

[webfact]

do u really not understand the difference between having different prices for locals (who in the case of sports arenas and theme parks probably lent the money to the companies via tax dollars) and different races?

if someone wants to run their business this way, i dont really care all that much, but it does speak to their character as a human being.

i cant imagine being the manager in one of these establishments and having a farang and Thai come in and ask the price.

"Oh for you its this much and for you its that much".

"Why?"

"Because of your skin color".

I'd be too embarrassed honestly.

Its not different races!!! I'm "local" - I'm white, work here, pay my taxes, have a work permit and a driving licence, and I get in (National Park for example) for the local price.

Really? How you do that then? Shoe polish?

I speak to them in Thai and show my driving licence - no problem.

Ridiculous boasting.

Next time you are in BKK let me know if your strategy works also at, let's say, Wat Phra Kaeo.

He's right, it's getting harder and harder to use the driving license trick to get local prices.

Even in far-off Pala-u Falls It was only with fancy talking (in thai) and driving license could I get the local price (at 40 baht) instead of 200 baht!

She said that a lot of places now are not accepted thai driving license for discount.

Probably because there are fewer tourists coming???

I do not have a drivers license, so I show my tax ID card. I never had problems with that.

[dave9988]

there are many private business with this policy. there was a thread about Tony's Gym which apparently has a strict race pricing scheme.

[bonobo]

I am in San Francisco right now for a trade show. After we set up for the show yesterday, we went for a walk and ended up at the Wharf. My companion had never been to the US before, so we took the Alcatraz/Golden Gate boat trip, had ice cream at Cold Stone (my decision for that one) visited the Ghirardelli chocolate center, and went to Pier 39. Sure it was a tourist trap, but with the street perfomers and walking around, it was interesting. Other than the ice cream, we bought one hot chocolate (my companion was rather cold even if it was unseasonly warm). We later bought some Ghirardelli choclate at Walgreens at half the price than we saw at Ghirardelli Square.

I don't mind tourist traps. If you buy anything there, you should expect inflated prices. But I have always resented the dual pricing in Thailand. As a permanent, tax-paying resident of Thailand, I feel that I should pay the local rate. In the US, at least, it is residency, not race or nationality which gets someone the local pricing, whether that is a Pier 39 discount or tuition.

[citizen33]

The example I did refer to is in no way in contradiction with the EU rules, because its no dual pricing, because free entrance is a "gift or present" for for local inhabitants regardless race, gender, nationality, age or sexual preference.

You are wrong. If you take the trouble to read the material at the links you will see that one of the examples sanctioned by the EU involved free entry for locals. And furthermore, if you were not in fact addressing the issue of dual pricing why are you posting on this thread?

Extract from summary follows:

Community law - Principles - Equality of treatment - Discrimination on grounds of nationality - Free admission to museums of a Member State granted only to nationals, foreigners resident there and young persons under 21 years of age - Discrimination against nationals of other Member States who enjoy freedom of movement, in particular as recipients of services - Prohibited

(EEC Treaty, Arts 7 and 59)

Edited January 18, 2009 by citizen33

[Scott]

I have a work permit, driver's license the correct visa etc. I still get charged the higher price. I really can't be bothered to argue with them, so I either pay or I just smile and walk away. It's obviously racist because the people I am with never get asked anything. Don't have to speak Thai or anything--it's just assumed they are.

Sometimes I feel as welcome as those Rohingya's from Burma!

[Livinginexile]

I wouldn't mind so much but they are so sneaky about it.

Have you noticed how they write the local price in Thai and then the Farang price in English?

It's a con and it's state sponsored rascism.

But what the heck...this is Thailand

[Jingthing]

If someone can explain to me why a brand name company participates in this dual pricing madness I will be somewhat happy. Any takers?

I'll bite.

1. Because they legally can.

2. Because most foreigners will accept the myth that Thais are always poorer and need a break.

3. Because culturally Thais believe they DESERVE a better price than foreigners, and will respond well to this racist discount. Many times Thais will not call this double pricing, but call it a DISCOUNT for Thais.

Edited January 18, 2009 by Jingthing

[kiakaha]

I wouldn't mind so much but they are so sneaky about it.

Have you noticed how they write the local price in Thai and then the Farang price in English?

It's a con and it's state sponsored rascism.

But what the heck...this is Thailand

its not sneaky....i can read it perfectly and i am of caucasian appearance....and pricing signs are very trivial to read......as posted before i have never seen the term "farang" written on a pricing sign anywhere in the country.

[MsClueless]

Im not arguing if double pricing is right or wrong. nor defending private sectors that practice it. (government sector in some cases may be justified - taxes paid by nationals and such)

but what Im curious about is this:

those that complain about being charged double pricing, would you / do you complain about your employers practising double pricing? ie. pay farangs higher for the same jobs done by thais?

just curious what your views are......and lets just say its exactly the same job, and yes the thai person is capable of performing the same level that you do.

[JSixpack]

Why do non-residents pay such a high price? It's not racism. It is usually due to the fact that some officials believe that the non-resident price is the same (fair?) price one would pay in the visitors' home countries. It may not be sound logic, but it is NOT racism.

-NG

Nonsense. It is always initially (at least) applied on a racial basis. Nor does having local residence always entitle one to the Thai price. I suspect that is rather the exception.

Read here for a perfect example of price discrimination against kids (either mixed race--most probably--or with a farang stepfather) who live in Thailand and have Thai ID cards:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sathit-Engli...02#entry2472802

Edited January 19, 2009 by JSixpack

[tig28]

The example I did refer to is in no way in contradiction with the EU rules, because its no dual pricing, because free entrance is a "gift or present" for for local inhabitants regardless race, gender, nationality, age or sexual preference.

You are wrong. If you take the trouble to read the material at the links you will see that one of the examples sanctioned by the EU involved free entry for locals. And furthermore, if you were not in fact addressing the issue of dual pricing why are you posting on this thread?

Extract from summary follows:

Community law - Principles - Equality of treatment - Discrimination on grounds of nationality - Free admission to museums of a Member State granted only to nationals, foreigners resident there and young persons under 21 years of age - Discrimination against nationals of other Member States who enjoy freedom of movement, in particular as recipients of services - Prohibited

(EEC Treaty, Arts 7 and 59)

Hi citizen33 ---- i can see nothing in the segment you posted <Community law> that refers to the scenario described by henry..... am I reading it incorrectly???

[kiakaha]

Green Fees at New Zealand's most exclusive golf course :

http://www.capekidnappers.com/Green_Fees32.html

Tuition fees at New Zealand's preeminent university :

http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/cs-general-i...about-fees#s3c4

[Roadman]

Green Fees at New Zealand's most exclusive golf course :

http://www.capekidnappers.com/Green_Fees32.html

Tuition fees at New Zealand's preeminent university :

http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/cs-general-i...about-fees#s3c4

The one I really enjoyed was taking my wife and daughter to the Waitangi Treaty Grounds at Paihia over New Year. I on the basis of being a New Zealand citizen went in free but they even with their Kiwi residency permits had to pay $20 each as Thai citizens.

I have no problem with paying the falang price for access to Thai museums, parks etc. but when private bussiness and vendors try it on I refuse to pay and go to the next place.

[kiakaha]

Green Fees at New Zealand's most exclusive golf course :

http://www.capekidnappers.com/Green_Fees32.html

Tuition fees at New Zealand's preeminent university :

http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/cs-general-i...about-fees#s3c4

The one I really enjoyed was taking my wife and daughter to the Waitangi Treaty Grounds at Paihia over New Year. I on the basis of being a New Zealand citizen went in free but they even with their Kiwi residency permits had to pay $20 each as Thai citizens.

I have no problem with paying the falang price for access to Thai museums, parks etc. but when private bussiness and vendors try it on I refuse to pay and go to the next place.

10 seconds of googling would imply that you screwed up on the entry fee as NZL residents get in free :

http://www.waitangi.net.nz/things-to-see-and-do/

New Zealand residents enter the Treaty grounds free! Our overseas guests have admission ($20 adult, $5 child) extended to 2 full days.

also, there is no "farang" price in thailand...there is a tourist/non-resident price ie: Bill Heineke is a farang(person of caucasian appearance)

[citizen33]

Hi citizen33 ---- i can see nothing in the segment you posted <Community law> that refers to the scenario described by henry..... am I reading it incorrectly???

The example cases cited included one where free admission for nationals, or foreign nationals resident in the country, is deemed in breach of EU Articles 7 and 59, and one where schemes offering preferential rates for local residents is deemed to breach these same rules. Perhaps my sentence does oversimplify this (I was trying to keep it short). Neither case is exactly the same scenario (local residents - as opposed to nationals/foreigners with residency - free) but together they clearly show that free admission (Henry's 'gift') does not nullify the application of the rules. Nor can a service provider get around the rules by saying that differential pricing is based on place of residence rather than nationality. For Henry's argument to be correct, you would have to argue that the Italian case would have been thrown out if admission for the locals was free rather than set at a lower price, but it is clear this would have made no difference. It is a little bit frustrating when one uses a kind of shorthand to encourage people to read the full links and they prefer to point out that the shorthand doesn't give a complete explanation! I'm not saying that there are not examples of discriminatory practice that still slip through the net in the EU, but I stick with my view that Henry is wrong to say that making something free gets around the Commission's rules.

Here is a snippet from the second case, which bears directly on local residency.

16 January 2003

Judgment of the Court of Justice in Case C-388/01

Commission v Italy

THE COURT OF JUSTICE CENSURES ITALY FOR HAVING ALLOWED ADVANTAGEOUS RATES FOR ADMISSION TO CULTURAL SITES UNDER MUNICIPAL OR DECENTRALISED CONTROL ONLY FOR ITALIAN NATIONALS AND PERSONS RESIDENT WITHIN THE TERRITORIES OF THE AUTHORITIES RUNNING THEM.

Edited January 19, 2009 by citizen33

[bkkjames]

Hi citizen33 ---- i can see nothing in the segment you posted <Community law> that refers to the scenario described by henry..... am I reading it incorrectly???

The example cases cited included one where free admission for nationals, or foreign nationals resident in the country, is deemed in breach of EU Articles 7 and 59, and one where schemes offering preferential rates for local residents is deemed to breach these same rules. Perhaps my sentence does oversimplify this (I was trying to keep it short). Neither case is exactly the same scenario (local residents - as opposed to nationals/foreigners with residency - free) but together they clearly show that free admission (Henry's 'gift') does not nullify the application of the rules. Nor can a service provider get around the rules by saying that differential pricing is based on place of residence rather than nationality. For Henry's argument to be correct, you would have to argue that the Italian case would have been thrown out if admission for the locals was free rather than set at a lower price, but it is clear this would have made no difference. It is a little bit frustrating when one uses a kind of shorthand to encourage people to read the full links and they prefer to point out that the shorthand doesn't give a complete explanation! I'm not saying that there are not examples of discriminatory practice that still slip through the net in the EU, but I stick with my view that Henry is wrong to say that making something free gets around the Commission's rules.

Here is a snippet from the second case, which bears directly on local residency.

16 January 2003

Judgment of the Court of Justice in Case C-388/01

Commission v Italy

THE COURT OF JUSTICE CENSURES ITALY FOR HAVING ALLOWED ADVANTAGEOUS RATES FOR ADMISSION TO CULTURAL SITES UNDER MUNICIPAL OR DECENTRALISED CONTROL ONLY FOR ITALIAN NATIONALS AND PERSONS RESIDENT WITHIN THE TERRITORIES OF THE AUTHORITIES RUNNING THEM.

so now what - does italy get to spend time in jail for this?

[t.s]

do u really not understand the difference between having different prices for locals (who in the case of sports arenas and theme parks probably lent the money to the companies via tax dollars) and different races?

if someone wants to run their business this way, i dont really care all that much, but it does speak to their character as a human being.

i cant imagine being the manager in one of these establishments and having a farang and Thai come in and ask the price.

"Oh for you its this much and for you its that much".

"Why?"

"Because of your skin color".

I'd be too embarrassed honestly.

Its not different races!!! I'm "local" - I'm white, work here, pay my taxes, have a work permit and a driving licence, and I get in (National Park for example) for the local price.

Really? How you do that then? Shoe polish?

I speak to them in Thai and show my driving licence - no problem.

Thanks for the tip I will give it a try.

Shoe polish didn't work

i do the same thing. I have NEVER been denied the local price and find the discussion somewhat tedious.

i sometimes ruminate over how badly i am being stung when paying my maid and nanny their paltry combined salaries.

how we suffer.

[bendejo]

I wonder why the baseball parks in the US don't have 'ethnic days,' like Thailand Day, where all Thais get in the park free. And then when they go to the concession they're asked 'You Thai?' and they smile and say 'yes' and are then told they have to pay 10 times the regular amount.

[mittheimp]

I am going to Saipan next week.. an American protectorate island in the Pacific ocean.. I intend to play some golf, very cheap my American travelling companion informed me.. Well it is for him, i checked out the website.. US citizens half price!!! (even less if you are in the army).. $120 for me!!

[Jingthing]

I am going to Saipan next week.. an American protectorate island in the Pacific ocean.. I intend to play some golf, very cheap my American travelling companion informed me.. Well it is for him, i checked out the website.. US citizens half price!!! (even less if you are in the army).. $120 for me!!

So what? I am sure they check ID cards for qualification. Just showing up in jeans and sneakers won't cut it. Here, just look any kind of Asian that might be Thai, and in many places, there is the "discount". It is based on race. The discount you mention is based on citizenship and/or military status, REGARDLESS of race.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Jingthing

[mittheimp]

I am going to Saipan next week.. an American protectorate island in the Pacific ocean.. I intend to play some golf, very cheap my American travelling companion informed me.. Well it is for him, i checked out the website.. US citizens half price!!! (even less if you are in the army).. $120 for me!!

So what? I am sure they check ID cards for qualification. Just showing up in jeans and sneakers won't cut it. Here, just look any kind of Asian that might be Thai, and in many places, there is the "discount". It is based on race. The discount you mention is based on citizenship and/or military status, REGARDLESS of race.

i never said it wasn't!

Also I know quite a few Koreans that pay the 'foreigner' price!

[Jingthing]

i never said it wasn't!

OK, so then I don't see why you posted an irrelevant example then if you already knew it is was irrelevant, but ... whatever ...

BTW, a Korean American would pay the American price. Again, irrelevant.

Edited January 19, 2009 by Jingthing

[mittheimp]

i never said it wasn't!

OK, so then I don't see why you posted an irrelevant example then if you already knew it is was irrelevant, but ... whatever ...

BTW, a Korean American would pay the American price. Again, irrelevant.

i was reffering to Thailand with the 'korean' comment - as you implied asians are often given the 'Thai' price..

Sorry i thought the thread was about examples of two tiered pricing outside of thailand. My mistake for misunderstanding that the thread is entirely about race... many apologies.