The Unkindest Cut

[bannork]

Daily News, January 23.

On January 21 Mrs Na, (real name withheld), took her son,aged 12, to a radio station in Samut Prakan to complain about her son's treatment at a clinic.

Mrs Na said her son had some small protuberances on the left hand corner of his lips so she took him to a clinic under the 30 baht treat all diseases scheme in Prapadaeng.

A doctor arranged to operate at 10.00pm the same day and at the appointed time a doctor with 2 nurses took the boy to the operating theatre. Whilst the operation was in progress the boy cried out in pain, when entering the theatre Mrs Na said she saw the doctor and nurses mopping up blood using cotton wool around her son's penis.

After the operation Mrs Na asked her son where the doctor had operated on him and he replied the doctor had circumcised him.

Shocked, she asked the doctor why, but he replied it was too late, a mistake had been made which could not be rectified, he refused to give his name when asked by Mrs Na.

The boy, Dtai, (real name withheld),said whilst still grimacing from the pain,that the doctor had told him to get onto the operating table and take off his trousers. He told the doctor that his mouth hurt, not his groin, but neither the doctor nor nurses listened to him. The doctor then injected a local anaesthetic and operated.

The director of the clinic said it was due to a misunderstanding between the staff of the clinic and that the clinic would take full responsibility and offer compensation to the damaged party. The doctor involved was said to be stressed after the incident and had resigned from the clinic.

[phoolish]

Nice!

[Dakhar]

Welcome to Thailand

[joskydive]

This doesn't just happen in Thailand.

[john b good]

This doesn't just happen in Thailand.

It probably happens a lot more often than most might like to think.

[imaneggspurt]

This doesn't just happen in Thailand.

Really, where else has a boy had his foreskin removed instead of a mouth problem, ?... i could sort of relate to it if it had been a translation mix up, but this is all thais involved from what i can see,.im off for an op on my back soon, im having signs in thai written and tieing on my pecker saying " not here ,my back you fool ") Edited January 23, 2009 by imaneggspurt

[imaneggspurt]

Daily News, January 23.

On January 21 Mrs Na, (real name withheld), took her son,aged 12, to a radio station in Samut Prakan to complain about her son's treatment at a clinic.

Mrs Na said her son had some small protuberances on the left hand corner of his lips so she took him to a clinic under the 30 baht treat all diseases scheme in Prapadaeng.

A doctor arranged to operate at 10.00pm the same day and at the appointed time a doctor with 2 nurses took the boy to the operating theatre. Whilst the operation was in progress the boy cried out in pain, when entering the theatre Mrs Na said she saw the doctor and nurses mopping up blood using cotton wool around her son's penis.

After the operation Mrs Na asked her son where the doctor had operated on him and he replied the doctor had circumcised him.

Shocked, she asked the doctor why, but he replied it was too late, a mistake had been made which could not be rectified, he refused to give his name when asked by Mrs Na.

The boy, Dtai, (real name withheld),said whilst still grimacing from the pain,that the doctor had told him to get onto the operating table and take off his trousers. He told the doctor that his mouth hurt, not his groin, but neither the doctor nor nurses listened to him. The doctor then injected a local anaesthetic and operated.

The director of the clinic said it was due to a misunderstanding between the staff of the clinic and that the clinic would take full responsibility and offer compensation to the damaged party. The doctor involved was said to be stressed after the incident and had resigned from the clinic.

wonder if the dr was thai ?

[Pierrot]

Unfortunately it happens everywhere but a solution is on the way.

"Using a simple surgical checklist during major operations can cut deaths by more than 40% and complications by more than a third, research has shown"

It was tested in hospitals in Seattle, Toronto, London, Auckland, Amman, New Delhi, Manila and Ifakara, Tanzania ... The cut in deaths and complications was similar across all the hospitals in the study ...They indicate that gaps in teamwork and safety practices in surgery are substantial in countries both rich and poor.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7825780.stm

[neverdie]

Sounds like a massive Cock-up to me.

[Dave the Dude]

Poor little kid.

Its a very painful and uncomfortable post-Op, the older one gets.

Enough said

Dave

[joskydive]

This doesn't just happen in Thailand.

Really, where else has a boy had his foreskin removed instead of a mouth problem, ?... i could sort of relate to it if it had been a translation mix up, but this is all thais involved from what i can see,.im off for an op on my back soon, im having signs in thai written and tieing on my pecker saying " not here ,my back you fool ")

That's an idea!

I've seen Hip replacements done on the wrong hip. Plaster casts put on the wrong leg and quite a lot of other things. This has all been put down to stress, not listening or even writing the wrong thing in the patients notes, such as Lt. instead of Rt., an easy mistake to make with drastic consequences.

I notice now in the UK that prior to an operation they mark the part that is to be cut on the patient while they are still conscious and lucid, possibly to stop these mistakes, but sometimes they still happen.

[LivinLOS]

This was on Thai TV yesterday, tho I couldnt follow all of it the doctor was accused of many other major screwups.. Leaving bandages / gauze inside a person after surgery, etc etc.. The way the program was biasing it seemed as tho it was that the doctor wasnt mentally fit / fully sane, not just a minor mistake, yet was still performing regular surgery despite multiple evidences of 'oddness'..

Much of this info came second hand from my GF..

[joskydive]

That's probably why he wouldn't give his name to the Mother of this lad.

[geriatrickid]

Rather odd story as circumcisions aren't performed by your typical general surgeon or GP. There are several training programs starting up to provide the training. Old saying about practice making perfect.

This wouldn't by any chance be a story planted with the media by those foreign based wackos that have been harassing the HIV prevention program that intends to facilitate access and subsidize the cost of the procedure would it?

Then again, anything goes in a Thai clinic.

[polecat]

It's no skin of my nose.

[skippybangkok]

Like a guy who wakes up in a hospital after an operation. The other asks "what are you in for?" - the woke up guy answers "a Vasectomy".

"what are you in for?" he asks in reply - " a circumcision he replies"

The recently woke guy replies in horror " Sh it , thats the word i was looking for! "

[polecat]

Leaving bandages / gauze inside a person after surgery, etc etc..

Anyone?

[imaneggspurt]

This doesn't just happen in Thailand.

Really, where else has a boy had his foreskin removed instead of a mouth problem, ?... i could sort of relate to it if it had been a translation mix up, but this is all thais involved from what i can see,.im off for an op on my back soon, im having signs in thai written and tieing on my pecker saying " not here ,my back you fool ")

That's an idea!

I've seen Hip replacements done on the wrong hip. Plaster casts put on the wrong leg and quite a lot of other things. This has all been put down to stress, not listening or even writing the wrong thing in the patients notes, such as Lt. instead of Rt., an easy mistake to make with drastic consequences.

I notice now in the UK that prior to an operation they mark the part that is to be cut on the patient while they are still conscious and lucid, possibly to stop these mistakes, but sometimes they still happen.

Frightening !,.

[Scott]

Poor kid. I am sure it was very traumatic. 12 is that age when certain parts of the body start becoming more important than others.

No kite flying for a few weeks for him.

[Groongthep]

I notice now in the UK that prior to an operation they mark the part that is to be cut on the patient while they are still conscious and lucid, possibly to stop these mistakes, but sometimes they still happen.

Many large hospitals in the US do this now too. It became standard procedure after several well publicized cases of the wrong body part having been removed during surgical procedures several years back.

[JimsKnight]

The dark side of 30 baht medical care...

[12DrinkMore]

What do you expect for 30 Baht?

[polecat]

What do you expect for 30 Baht?

Underfunded hospitals to be overrun with patients seeking treatment?

The beginnings of a laudable universal health care programme?

The 30 baht scheme is very difficult to assess. Although I'm sure the lad who lost his 'lad' will have a pretty definite opinion.

Interesting report on the scheme here.

[cathyy]

IIRC, the US Army required all recruits who were not circumcised to have it done early in training, back in the WWI days. It had to do with hygiene, and the plain and simple lack of adequate sanitation for the poor guys in the trenches. So once such a large percentage of US men were circumcised, the sons all had it done, with the idea that they would "look like Daddy." Not long after that, it was done to make the boys "not look different" in the locker room. So it was firmly entrenched in the US in just one or two generations, really.

It prevents cervical cancer in the sexual partner of a circumcised man, believe it or not. Until the HPV vaccine for women recently became available that was a sound medical reason for circumcision. Now, the reduced transmission to the man of HIV is a sound medical reason for it. They don't stop a study halfway through and offer the treatment being tested to the control group unless the evidence of efficacy is overwhelming... and they did do that. You'd be surprised at how many adult men chose circumcision.

[TJAN]

Sounds like a massive Cock-up to me.

You look like a Cock-up.

[polecat]

Sounds like a massive Cock-up to me.

You look like a Cock-up.

Hey! Cut it out!

[cymruambyth1]

Sounds like a massive Cock-up to me.

You look like a Cock-up.

Hey! Cut it out!

They already did!

[polecat]

<<snip>>

[MUYTHAI]

Rather odd story as circumcisions aren't performed by your typical general surgeon or GP. There are several training programs starting up to provide the training. Old saying about practice making perfect.

This wouldn't by any chance be a story planted with the media by those foreign based wackos that have been harassing the HIV prevention program that intends to facilitate access and subsidize the cost of the procedure would it?

Then again, anything goes in a Thai clinic.

Hey Buddy (geriatrickid),

I live in the USA...I guess I am a foreign-based wacko. I am a medical doctor and a virologist based in LA. I happen to know one of the people involved in the study you are referring to.

There no credible evidence that men with whole penises have a greater chance of contracting HIV than men who are unwhole. The African study you refer to is extremely flawed and deceptive. Have you read the study and do you know the complete details of the study? I have and I do. I also have some inside information. There are lower HIV RATES in European men (most of whom are intact) than in men from the USA (most of whom are partial). That is fact. Also, men that are intact do not have any higher rate of penile cancer than men who are not intact. That is a fact. Penile cancer rates among all men are very low anyway...below 1%. Compare that to breast cancer rates in women. Should the breast buds of baby girls be removed? Should the foreskins (prepuce) and labia minoras of baby girls be removed so they have a lower cancer rate, HIV rate, and HPV rate? You know those areas contain smegma and remain moist. Are they a breeding ground for all the diseases you seem to think are caused by foreskins. I think not. Although, you would probably say yes. You are an ill-informed person. Why are you obssessed and in support of male genital mutilation? Circumcision removes the most important pleasure areas of the penis.....the frenulum, banded ridges, and the inner mucosa. There are many advatages to having a foreskin. Those that were circed as children will never know because they have no before and after to compare. It is analogous to a person born color-blind not knowing what a color-visioned person experiences. Unfortunately, I was circed at age 18, so I know what I am missing. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I know how circumcision handicaps pleasure,sex, etc. Now, as a doctor, I do my best to dissuade all expecting mothers from having their babies sexually mutilated and thus depriving them of the most pleasureable parts of their genitals and future sex lives.

"Last fall, the first rigorous trial on the subject conducted in South Africa found that circumcised men are 60% less likely to contract HIV. Researchers, who halted the study early because the results were so convincing, suspect that the foreskin contains a concentration of cells that are easily infected by the virus."

This information is inaccurate, especially the part pertaining to the reason why the study was ended early.

The study was done on grown men, these were all men who were intact and clean of the AIDS virus. When the study began 1500 of the men (out of 3000) underwent a Circumcision removing the forskin from the glans. That was the day the study began.

For the first 3 months there was a 0% ratio of the circumsized men contracting the aids virus while a large number of the intact men contracted the virus. What you need to understand is that the first 3 months of the study the men who underwent the circumcision had ZERO sexual activity due to the fact that their penis was healing from the recent trauma.

That makes the study faulty right there, but the reason the study was discontinued was not due to overwhelming evidance. It was due to the fact that after the circumsized men finally got around to being able to have sexual relations, they were actually contracting the virus at a rate much larger than those who remained intact. This worried the people conducting the study because the study was backed by an organization known for promoting circumcision as a way to prevent aids. They did not want their own study to come out and prove them wrong so they discontinued the study and reported the findings as fact instead of letting the study continue for its pre-determined 3 year period and letting the averages equal out and overcome the fact that the intact men were actually contracting it at a slower rate.

They falsified the findings by ending the study early, and by you posting the study as fact helps them in their agenda to push circumcision vs educating the public about the facts.

The facts are that America has one of the larger populations of AIDS infected citizens and we are also the largest country advocating circumcision. How could it be possible if by their findings we should have 60% less chance of contracting the aids virus vs a european who is intact?

The findings are false and if you had done the research required to post it as 'truth' or 'fact' you would have come to that conclusion also instead of blindly allowing yourselves to be manipulated by an organization with an agenda.

You geriatrickid are the wacko and need to mind your own business when it comes to Thais and all Asians (except some moslems, South Koreans, and some Filipinos) not mutilating their children.

[MUYTHAI]

IIRC, the US Army required all recruits who were not circumcised to have it done early in training, back in the WWI days. It had to do with hygiene, and the plain and simple lack of adequate sanitation for the poor guys in the trenches. So once such a large percentage of US men were circumcised, the sons all had it done, with the idea that they would "look like Daddy." Not long after that, it was done to make the boys "not look different" in the locker room. So it was firmly entrenched in the US in just one or two generations, really.

Your wrong. It was started in the late 1800's by Dr Kellogg who was a hardcore religious Victorian who believed that circumcision would stop boys from masturbating because it would be far less pleasureable without a frenulum and foreskin. He was correct about it being far less pleasureable. That is all he was correct about. He also starter burning out the clitorises of girls by using acid to stop them from playing with themselves. He believed masturbation was "of the devil" and was a sign of mental illnesses. Circumcision was then flauted as a preventative for penile cancer. It is now known as fact that it is not a preventative for penile cancer. Data and evidence indicate that smegma in males and female actually prevents cancer.

It prevents cervical cancer in the sexual partner of a circumcised man, believe it or not. Until the HPV vaccine for women recently became available that was a sound medical reason for circumcision. Now, the reduced transmission to the man of HIV is a sound medical reason for it. They don't stop a study halfway through and offer the treatment being tested to the control group unless the evidence of efficacy is overwhelming... and they did do that.

You are wrong about the HIV study. Get a copy of the journal in which the study was published in. You should be able to find one at a local university or online. The experimental design of the study was seriously flawed and was biased towards the pro-circ agenda. The study was stopped short because toward the end of the 3rd month it was indicating that circumcised subjects were contracting HIV at a higher rate than intact study subjects. The pro-circ proponents were getting results they did not want so they "cooked the books" by stopping the study short. Read my earlier post for more details.

You need to conduct research before you post your so-called facts. There is plenty of info online and in medical studies from around the globe.

You'd be surprised at how many adult men chose circumcision. What country are you referring to??? The USA? Israel? Where is your data coming from?

Bottom line......all genital mutilation of males, females, and intersex individuals under the age of consent should be illegal in all cultures and countries. It is a violation of international law regarding the protection of children but it still takes place. MGM and FGM is an unfortunate and disgusting act that will be looked back on in disbelief in the future.