Water Heater Unit

[lopburi3]

lopburi3, these things are designed to sense a short and cut the power before it can hurt you.. Do I have that right? Are there varying qualities of these circuit breakers? Do some react slower than others? Anything to watch for when buying?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They sense a difference in the hot and neutral wires and cut off current when there is a difference of xx milliamp (going elsewhere). You should have a unit able to trip at or below 35 milliamp for shock protection. The higher rated trip units are used for industrial fire protection. There are many models from the local made Safe-T-Cut and several other to imported types from just about any manufacture (I have ClipSal from OZ on sub-panels).

[lopburi3]

there are 2 main types of breakers, square "D" and elcb.

elcb is a must for bathrooms, this does not need an earth wire and has no connection for an earth wire, it is also 5 times the price of a square "D" breaker.

you can hardwire your shower heater earth but generally its best to just use the elcb, the more expensive water heaters come with an elcb inside, but it is also a good idea to have an extra ordinary breaker outside the bathroom....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Square D is a US manufacture of electrical equipment and not a type of breaker.

It is a requirement to ground wire a bathroom on demand water heater. The ELCB in the unit only protects downstream of that point. If leakage is before the ELCB you need the protection of a ground on the metal parts of the cabinet. If you have another ELCB outside the bath so much the better. But do have that ground attached just in case.

[chanchao]

Major consideration: Where are you living. If Bangkok or similar then any 3500 Watt unit will do. If you live up North/Northeast, then 3500 really doesn't cut it in the winter. You need a 6000+ Watt unit at least. For the last month in Chiang Mai I'm running mine (National) at full power to manage to get the water warm.

[chingy_]

this is what i know so far

-3.5 kw is good enought (im in BKK)

-buy a good japanese brand (don't really care about price)

-the unit must have ELCB

-extra circut breaker is good

-water pump to get good pressure (still thinking about this one, wait to see how the original unit work first)

-must be grounded no question ask

-buy a brand that have good maintaine services

question?

-my condo is fairly new, i think i have a circut breaker box install for the whole condo, look like i have six switch, and one main switch, in the past when thing blow the switch turn off. can that be consider outside circut breaker?

-how do i know if my unit is grounded? yes i will ask the electician to ground for me, but i don't trust them wanna see it for myself.

im getting all the info i can before i go out to purchase the unit, holiday no electician is working got to wait for a couple of day.

[lopburi3]

question?

-my condo is fairly new, i think i have a circut breaker box install for the whole condo, look like i have six switch, and one main switch, in the past when thing blow the switch turn off. can that be consider outside circut breaker?

-how do i know if my unit is grounded? yes i will ask the electician to ground for me, but i don't trust them wanna see it for myself.

Watch that three wires are attached inside the heater - you can remove cover with one screw if you have to check later. Are three pin outlets used in your condo? If so be sure he uses a three wire electric run to your new heater also. If you only have two pin outlets you may (probably) don't have a ground system on your electric supply so may have to run a wire to an air conditioner ground or perhaps there is one behind your refrigerator that can be used. They should be able to find something - even if just rebar inside a wall.

They will probably use one of those six breakers. If the main breaker is not noted as ECLB somewhere (will have a test button if it is) I would pay to have one installed. It will be a small price to afford a great deal of extra protection.

[RDN]

Get one of these, mate:

[SiamJai]

Nice one! Are you the lucky owner?

Edited January 2, 2005 by SiamJai

[RDN]

Nice one! Are you the lucky owner?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes - just took the photo 50 minutes ago

[JimGant]

Lop,

Re: Safe-t-cut. When there's a power outage, and then the power's restored, do you have to reset the Safe-t-cut? I was led to believe this, so haven't installed one, as I'm away alot and not availbable for resets.

Also, are there Safe-t-cuts, or similar GFI-type devices, that I can mount at my breaker box only for the circuits going to my hot water heaters?

Thanx.

[chingy_]

ok all the outlet in my condo are 3 pin outlet, that mean the building are grounded

someone mention not to get the digital number but get a manual, easier to control the wate heat.

[Crazy Dave]

there are 2 main types of breakers, square "D" and elcb.

elcb is a must for bathrooms, this does not need an earth wire and has no connection for an earth wire, it is also 5 times the price of a square "D" breaker.

you can hardwire your shower heater earth but generally its best to just use the elcb, the more expensive water heaters come with an elcb inside, but it is also a good idea to have an extra ordinary breaker outside the bathroom....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Square D is a US manufacture of electrical equipment and not a type of breaker.

It is a requirement to ground wire a bathroom on demand water heater. The ELCB in the unit only protects downstream of that point. If leakage is before the ELCB you need the protection of a ground on the metal parts of the cabinet. If you have another ELCB outside the bath so much the better. But do have that ground attached just in case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes square "D" is an american manufacturer of electrical products, but as america is 120 volts dc which aint wot we got in thailand most of there products are worthless here, so lets think about the only square "D: products which are useable in thailand, yep its there breakers...

[Crazy Dave]

110volts b4 u all start

[penzman]

ok all the outlet in my condo are 3 pin outlet, that mean the building are grounded

someone mention not to get the digital number but get a manual, easier to control the wate heat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Turn off the house's main breaker in the panel and then open one of the outlets to see if there really are 3 wires connected. There are many fairly new houses with 3 outlet socket plates but once you open them up you ll find 2 wires inside only... no ground wire.

Same goes for power bars/strips. Many have 3 hole sockets but the plug on the end only has 2 pins

[lopburi3]

Lop,

Re: Safe-t-cut. When there's a power outage, and then the power's restored, do you have to reset the Safe-t-cut? I was led to believe this, so haven't installed one, as I'm away a lot and not availbable for resets.

Also, are there Safe-t-cuts, or similar GFI-type devices, that I can mount at my breaker box only for the circuits going to my hot water heaters?

Thanx.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the circuit breaker trips from overload or ELCB it will have to be reset manually. But a power outage will not trip it so they are not a problem. But if you are away often you could lose what is in your refrigerator in the case of a trip. But at the same time that refrigerator (with easy to short compressor) is a prime source of shocks and an item I would highly recommend be on the ELCB.

You could buy units for each item you want to protect but I have not seen the individual type outlets as sold in the USA available here. They have the advantage of only cutting current to the defective device so easier to troubleshoot but would cost much more to protect the whole house so in USA most only use in bathrooms and pool areas. Here, where many of us are in bare feet on conductive floors highly recommend we protect everything.

Edited January 3, 2005 by lopburi3

[theviking]

#### the whole thing!

I am throwing out the heater and using my water tee heater, and a bathing tub.

It sounds soooo much safer...

[chingy_]

#### the whole thing!

I am throwing out the heater and using my water tee heater, and a bathing tub.

It sounds soooo much safer...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats what im doing right now, tell my maid to boil hot water, pour into the tub, got a nice bath instead, shower in summer, bath in winter.

[JimGant]

Lop,

But if you are away often you could lose what is in your refrigerator in the case of a trip.

That's what I'm worried about -- nothing like returning to a month's worth of spoiled meat.

But if we're away from the house -- and therefore not worried about shocks -- can we easily disable the safe-t-cut, i.e., remove it from the circuitry (preferably by switch action)?

Edited January 3, 2005 by JimGant

[chanchao]

This morning in the shower (full blast 6500 Watt; F'ing cold in Chiang Mai) I remembered one more thing that's probably been mentioned yet, but I didn't read the whole discussion:

Make sure that the heater is on a separate breaker-group, and that the breaker and cables are suited to the current the unit draws, which is a lot more than most other stuff around the house. I've been in several places where you couldn't use the water heater over a certain power-level while running the TV or airconditioner at the same time, or the breaker would crap out. So have this checked by a qualified electrician.

[chingy_]

you mean the heater should have its own circut breaker the power to it own, with out sharing with any other component.

anyway the holiday is over most electician is coming back to work, im going out to find a good water heater to fit my need, i will look up all the brand you all recomended.

[lopburi3]

The Safe-T-Cut units do have a bypass mode but most units that fit breaker box do not. It is not going to do much good if you forget so I would take the rotten meat choice myself - and I know what happens as my power was out several weeks in Homestead, Florida after Andrew hit with me here in Bangkok.

Heaters are huge electric users (although only for a short period) so they require their own wire run and breaker. Up in Chiang Mai for us sissies (me) it is much higher than here in Bangkok. Your rice cooker/toaster etc may draw 1,000 watts but that heater will be much more when the water is cold.