Governor Petitioned To Ban The Second Chiang Mai Gay Pride Parade

[sriracha john]

No place for gays in Chiang Mai culture?

Conservative groups in Chiang Mai have petitioned the Governor to ban the second Chiang Mai Gay Pride parade planned for February 21, arguing that such an event undermines the city's age-old culture. As director of MPlus, one of the event's organisers, I believe that cultural heritage and the expression of sexual identities are not mutually exclusive.

A flowing current brings fertility from upstream to downstream and prevents the decay that comes with stagnation. Likewise, culture, without being held hostage, renews itself in time and nourishes subsequent ages. This is true of all cultures, as they withstand the passage of time and pass on the legacy of previous generations.

For a culture to bear the passing of time, it needs to evolve alongside the people in that culture. It can't be frozen like a dead entity, because like life itself, culture goes through the cycles of creation, change and evolution. Should it stand still and fail to enrich itself with new values, decline would immediately set in. We should remember that all cultures are social constructs that are born, exist and pass away, according to the Buddhist principle of impermanence.

It is simply untrue that local cultures are completely distinct and separate from other cultures, as no cultures exist in a vacuum. They evolve through interaction within the culture and with other cultures. As a result, no individual or group can claim exclusive ownership of the culture in question.

What exactly is a culture? How did it come to be? Who owns it? For whom does it exist? These are questions that must be asked about any culture, including Chiang Mai culture, rather than accepting exclusive claims and definitions imposed by powers-that-be such as the nation state.

Culture is the total sum of the ways of life for various groups of people. It is not a sole property of the government, or capitalists, to be conveniently put in a neat package and sold for monetary gain,

Every Chiang Mai citizen is entitled to dignity and the right to contribute to their own culture according to their life being lived, not for other incentives. The capitalist culture or the authority culture is obviously not the same as the people's culture.

However, even in terms of people's culture, Chiang Mai culture today is not the same as it was 100 years ago. The differences reflect the inevitable changes in society. It is neither possible nor desirable to stop new elements flowing into Chiang Mai culture, just as it's impossible to stop tributaries pouring into a river.

A more constructive way to preserve Chiang Mai culture is by recognising impermanence and the changes to social and cultural constituents rather than categorically blocking all new elements without any guiding principles or sense of direction. The latter will become a dead weight that inhibits the regeneration of culture.

It is time to expand the ownership of Chiang Mai culture to include all subgroups of people with different ways of life and who are ready to share with and learn from others. A society and culture of diversity is more adept to cope with adverse social issues. To resist change and hang on to outdated images of culture will only cause conflict and alienation, both mental and physical. The question should be how to happily exist in a society with great diversity in sexuality, ideas, religion, politics and history.

Most importantly, every individual has a unique way of life, often in contradiction of an imaginary "golden age" of culture. The simplistic value judgement of good versus bad is an obstacle to the flow of the cultural stream and the recognition of the inherent diversity within culture.

Gay Pride is the expression of a group of people who exist in our society. Notwithstanding the negative portrayal of gays and lesbians often fed to society at large, it is important to remember that homosexuals exist in all professions; that they are our colleagues, friends and relatives; and that they make no less a cultural contribution to society than any other group.

When we talk about gay pride, some people conjure up the tired image of "improperly dressed" marchers. The truth is, Gay Pride parades in various countries also vary in character, depending on the issues being presented. Some Gay Pride participants in the West may be scantily clad, but that's to attract the attention of the public and not to sexually arouse. (This writer also believes that anyone who is so easily aroused by such images needs professional help.)

Intelligent viewers can recognise the message that any parade intends to impart, whether its human rights, HIV prevention or anti-discrimination. Nobody seeks out a Gay Pride parade for sexual pleasure, which can be found much more easily and abundantly elsewhere.

On the contrary, Gay Pride is a form of social expression by sexual minorities who, as citizens, are entitled to the right to freely express their identities and sexualities - so long as that expression does not infringe on the rights of others.

Such rights of expression are also afforded to heterosexuals. But Gay Pride has another dimension for gays and lesbians. In addition to allowing people to "come out" on an individual level, Gay Pride is also a "coming out" on a social level, because it opens up not only a physical space but also a conceptual space in the minds of others to recognise sexual minorities.

Gay Pride is thus part of the natural cultural evolution, a reflection of the river of social change and diversity. It's hoped that people in our society will think further than the simplistic binary system of what's sexually explicit or sexually arousing, polite or impolite, good or bad. This will be a learning process that takes us beyond the superficial attitudes that can only increase social conflict. Let us all hope for peace based on the understanding of the inherent diversity in all areas of life.

MPlus is an NGO working in HIV prevention among men who have sex with men, in Chiang Mai since 2002.

- Opinion By Pongthorn Chanlearn / The Nation / 2009-02-05

[endure]

Sounds like Mplus is angling for funding. Why can't these NGOs stop trying to fix things that aren't broken?

[ilovecm]

Sounds like Mplus is angling for funding. Why can't these NGOs stop trying to fix things that aren't broken?

Not at all. there are some 'other gay groups' and gay people who have got upset because they were not invited. They have forgotten why we hold Gay Prides (united we stand), they - the people trying to stop it - are all about their own self publicity - a thai man and a german - they should be ostracized by the whole gay community. MPlus held the first gay pride last year, they need help - not hinderance. Going to the authorities was WRONG

[Ulysses G.]

There are certainly a lot of Gays here and it is no secret that they have large disposable incomes and are not usually trouble makers. Why not a Gay Pride parade?

[ilovecm]

There are certainly a lot of Gays here and it is no secret that they have large disposable incomes and are not usually trouble makers. Why not a Gay Pride parade?

OK - so when and where is it? times dates venues PLEASE - lets all support it and enjoy

[hill16]

And let the authorities who are objecting take a look at the massive revenue this type of event generates in other places eg Sydney and see how long it takes them to abandon this high moral when the Baht signs start flashing in their greedy little eyes.

Congratulations to the author on a well-written piece. "Gay" could easily be replaced by the word 'foreigner' in this passage, lest we forget.

[uptheos]

Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.

But why the need for a parade?

Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?

[Paagai]

Sounds like Mplus is angling for funding. Why can't these NGOs stop trying to fix things that aren't broken?

Strongly disagree with this. The HIV incidence among young gay men in Chiang Mai is alarming already; MPLUS are about the only people trying to do something about the problem on the streets and educate young people about the dangers of HIV. They deserve praise and all the help they can get. It is a Thai run organisation helping thai people at the grass roots level, and AFAIK, not some farang run do gooder outfit, though I'm sure some financial donations comes from foreigners (USAID is involved I believe, but I'm not certain).

Of course, gay prides will always be contraversial, and in some ways serve as a focal point for demonising gay people and pushing the cause of acceptance backward. However, if it raises funding that stops even one single gay Thai youth having their life ruined by HIV then in my opinion its worth the downside.

I should make clear in the above I mean young gay thais having sex with each other, not with Farangs - before the usual suspects make the usual comments.

[ilovecm]

And let the authorities who are objecting take a look at the massive revenue this type of event generates in other places eg Sydney and see how long it takes them to abandon this high moral when the Baht signs start flashing in their greedy little eyes.

Congratulations to the author on a well-written piece. "Gay" could easily be replaced by the word 'foreigner' in this passage, lest we forget.

The governors office is only considering banning it -because 2 gay guys (one Thai and one german) petitioned them to do so - because their ego's are hurting.

[Rtwo]

Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.

But why the need for a parade?

Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?

Agreed. Why the apparent need to feel 'pride' in being gay any more than you might feel if you're straight?

[IanForbes]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

[Lobin]

Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.

But why the need for a parade?

Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?

110% agree with this, why do gays need to have parades? are you trying to advertise that you like a bit of bum fun or something?

we dont have heterosexual parades, is it some sort of recruiting mission?

people can be who they want to be, but this just doesnt make any sense.

[hill16]

Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.

But why the need for a parade?

Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?

110% agree with this, why do gays need to have parades? are you trying to advertise that you like a bit of bum fun or something?

we dont have heterosexual parades, is it some sort of recruiting mission?

people can be who they want to be, but this just doesnt make any sense.

And this coming from the same Lobin who on the 3rd of February in the thread 'Male Dominated CM Forum' wrote:

"a fight against blinky bill, ajarn et al and a lesbo, cant wait for the outcome of this one.

bring it on!

and for all you out there, i am a lesbian myself so am not being prejudice!"

I suspect you are a rather confused individual. One day a "lesbian" and today a heterosexual making an offensive remark about the nature of homosexuality.

Beware the troller!

[Lobin]

[/b][/u]I suspect you are a rather confused individual. One day a "lesbian" and today a heterosexual making an offensive remark about the nature of homosexuality.

confused oh yes indeed i am. offensive comment, how the in the hel_l is that an offensive comment?

[Pdaz]

All I ask is why do gays need a parade? I don't see parades for heterosexuals. Parades just plug up the traffic in already over crowded streets.

I'd have to agree... Their chosen sexuality is their business but I don't wish to have it rammed down my throat ( no pun intended ) In fact I find the whole idea of 'Gay Pride' parades offensive..

And before all the liberals and Gay types say I'm wrong to feel offended.. Just think how you would feel about 'Hetrosexual Pride' or 'White Pride' parades ? Do we have them ? No... cos they are offensive..

Do what you want to do in your life but don't try to push your lifestyle and thoughts on others who have their own way... There are plenty of minorities that people don't agree with ... But they are a minority so shouldn't impinge on the majority.. What next 'Meth users' parade ? 'Beastialty pride' parade... They are both minorities too and Homosexuality used to be thought of in a similar vein to drug abuse and other taboo sexual practices.... But guess what ? we ain't likely to see a parades for them any time soon.

[amexpat]

110% agree with this, why do gays need to have parades? are you trying to advertise that you like a bit of bum fun or something?

we dont have heterosexual parades, is it some sort of recruiting mission?

people can be who they want to be, but this just doesnt make any sense.

True. I never saw white people marching for their civil rights. Or rich people protesting for economic fairness. And straights don't complain about hetero-bashing.

I enjoy being in a favored majority but I believe in free speech and all that librul stuff.

Don't worry. If it is a recruiting mission, it's voluntary. You won't get drafted (conscripted).

[Beacher]

I have nothing against the gay community, but I can't understand why they like to have parades so often to celebrate their sexuality. I keep waiting for someone to organize a "Heterosexual Pride Parade" but it never happens? 555

Edited: I guess I should have read all the other posts. I see other people are also confused about need for frequent gay pride parades.

Edited February 5, 2009 by Beacher

[Mapguy]

Nothing against gays, they make the same contributions to society as everyone else.

But why the need for a parade?

Most everyone knows their own sexuality - can't it just be left at that?

Agreed. Why the apparent need to feel 'pride' in being gay any more than you might feel if you're straight?

Agree.

[Puwa]

Maybe there are particular problems or issues about being gay that straight people don't understand, and a parade is one way to raise the issue publicly and educate us. Anyone who seeks to live a happy, dignified life, free of unfair prejudice, has my best wishes. Go for it!

[miltonbentley]

Oh please surely in the 21st century people can't take offence at a gay pride event?

It is a party, a celebration of life, tolerance and community. If more people celebrated these values more regularly then perhaps there would be a lot less strife and misery in the world.

Live and let live and the world might become a better place.

[Shazza]

And let the authorities who are objecting take a look at the massive revenue this type of event generates in other places eg Sydney and see how long it takes them to abandon this high moral when the Baht signs start flashing in their greedy little eyes.

Congratulations to the author on a well-written piece. "Gay" could easily be replaced by the word 'foreigner' in this passage, lest we forget.

Yeah, that very likely will happen... baht signs work well in Thailand...

Hey, I guess some people would find the fact that people are trying to stop this parade offensive - downgrading gay people - um, well, I find your avatar offensive... having a certain part of female anatomy that is with me all the time - 24/7 in fact and you using the crude term for it to make a joke - um.... yuck.... ew.... gross.... please don't.....

My three boys (12, 14 and 16) would never use a word like that that is so degrading to women...

Just saying.....

[cmsally]

Sounds like Mplus is angling for funding. Why can't these NGOs stop trying to fix things that aren't broken?

Not at all. there are some 'other gay groups' and gay people who have got upset because they were not invited. They have forgotten why we hold Gay Prides (united we stand), they - the people trying to stop it - are all about their own self publicity - a thai man and a german - they should be ostracized by the whole gay community. MPlus held the first gay pride last year, they need help - not hinderance. Going to the authorities was WRONG

So if I understand this correctly, it is some gay groups for the parade and others against. In other words there are factions within the gay community. This is rather different than ordinary people taking a stand against it. Isn't this more of a situation where within one group, one section feels it is being misrepresented by another??

[taxexile]

Oh please surely in the 21st century people can't take offence at a gay pride event?

It is a party, a celebration of life, tolerance and community. If more people celebrated these values more regularly then perhaps there would be a lot less strife and misery in the world.

Live and let live and the world might become a better place.

if its truly a celebration of community then why this overpowering need to advertise your differences to those of other sexual persuasions.

just get on and enjoy your lives as part of the community as everybody else does and less have lets of this setting yourselves apart as some persecuted minority.

nobody is really interested in your sexual preferences or anybody elses for that matter.

thais generally accept gays , transvestites , transgenders and those of all other sexual preferences , as part of societies , communities and workplaces and have done for a long time without the need or desire to have western style gay pride parades.

perhaps gays should be tolerant of the views of a lot of thais when it comes to sexuality , and that is to live and let live but keep it low key.

[TAWP]

If political parties, where alignment is a choice, can have marches, days and parades, surely sexual allegiance can have their parades too?

No worries, they cannot turn you into something you aren't already...

Edited February 5, 2009 by TAWP

[cmsally]

Oh please surely in the 21st century people can't take offence at a gay pride event?

It is a party, a celebration of life, tolerance and community. If more people celebrated these values more regularly then perhaps there would be a lot less strife and misery in the world.

Live and let live and the world might become a better place.

if its truly a celebration of community then why this overpowering need to advertise your differences to those of other sexual persuasions.

just get on and enjoy your lives as part of the community as everybody else does and less have lets of this setting yourselves apart as some persecuted minority.

nobody is really interested in your sexual preferences or anybody elses for that matter.

thais generally accept gays , transvestites , transgenders and those of all other sexual preferences , as part of societies , communities and workplaces and have done for a long time without the need or desire to have western style gay pride parades.

perhaps gays should be tolerant of the views of a lot of thais when it comes to sexuality , and that is to live and let live but keep it low key.

I agree with this, I don't see the need for a celebration to accentuate differences. I'm not gay but know many people who are and both Thai and foreigners seem to be very well accepted into the community. To hold an event which merely serves to exaggerate the differences would I think have an adverse affect on the local community. It would grate on their tolerance and would highlight divisions. If you want to live successfully in a local community the best way is to integrate and it's a little difficult to do when you keep pointing out that you are different.

However if the gay community wanted to organise something that the whole community could take part in, then it would be received rather differently.

It's a little bit as if I wanted to organise a parade for foreigners only, the local community immediately would be excluded.

[miltonbentley]

Oh please surely in the 21st century people can't take offence at a gay pride event?

It is a party, a celebration of life, tolerance and community. If more people celebrated these values more regularly then perhaps there would be a lot less strife and misery in the world.

Live and let live and the world might become a better place.

if its truly a celebration of community then why this overpowering need to advertise your differences to those of other sexual persuasions.

just get on and enjoy your lives as part of the community as everybody else does and less have lets of this setting yourselves apart as some persecuted minority.

nobody is really interested in your sexual preferences or anybody elses for that matter.

thais generally accept gays , transvestites , transgenders and those of all other sexual preferences , as part of societies , communities and workplaces and have done for a long time without the need or desire to have western style gay pride parades.

perhaps gays should be tolerant of the views of a lot of thais when it comes to sexuality , and that is to live and let live but keep it low key.

I have nothing to do with this festival Taxexile I just happen to believe that public festivals where a particular section of society can interact with the wider community are a positive thing beneficial to the whole. I have been to a number of carnivals around the world even though I am not a member of the Afro Caribbean community and seen how they have led to greater understanding between people of all races. I believe that a Gay Pride event can have the same effect and help lead to a decrease in bigotry and hatred in society as a whole.

For much of the 20th century gay people were subjected to the most appalling bigotry and still are in many places around the world. I learned only recently that the supposedly enlightened international institution the World Health Organisation only removed homosexuality from its list of diseases as recently as 1980. As a human being I find that shocking and it is a massive step forward that gay people feel they can openly celebrate a more tolerant society.

[miltonbentley]

I agree with this, I don't see the need for a celebration to accentuate differences. I'm not gay but know many people who are and both Thai and foreigners seem to be very well accepted into the community. To hold an event which merely serves to exaggerate the differences would I think have an adverse affect on the local community. It would grate on their tolerance and would highlight divisions. If you want to live successfully in a local community the best way is to integrate and it's a little difficult to do when you keep pointing out that you are different.

However if the gay community wanted to organise something that the whole community could take part in, then it would be received rather differently.

It's a little bit as if I wanted to organise a parade for foreigners only, the local community immediately would be excluded.

Sorry Sally our posts crossed but I would like to respond. I believe all people are welcome at the festival. That is why it is organised as public event. In other Gay Pride events around the world everyone is welcome regardless of sexual preference. I have no reason to believe Chiang Mai would be any different.

[JIM7]

I agree with this, I don't see the need for a celebration to accentuate differences. I'm not gay but know many people who are and both Thai and foreigners seem to be very well accepted into the community. To hold an event which merely serves to exaggerate the differences would I think have an adverse affect on the local community. It would grate on their tolerance and would highlight divisions. If you want to live successfully in a local community the best way is to integrate and it's a little difficult to do when you keep pointing out that you are different.

However if the gay community wanted to organise something that the whole community could take part in, then it would be received rather differently.

It's a little bit as if I wanted to organise a parade for foreigners only, the local community immediately would be excluded.

Sorry Sally our posts crossed but I would like to respond. I believe all people are welcome at the festival. That is why it is organised as public event. In other Gay Pride events around the world everyone is welcome regardless of sexual preference. I have no reason to believe Chiang Mai would be any different.

It;s just a public expression of self hood. Why necessary? Because LGBT feel opressed and maginalized.

Why not Hetro parade. Well you ahve one every day. Every day is an expression of heroseuality. LGBT need to have a place at the table and you guys have got to move over and shut up about it. You're living behind the times. Didn;t you read the article.

[Paagai]

The organisers of this parade, MPLUS, are an organisation who's main aim is to promote good sexual health in the gay community in Thailand. For more details see: www.mplusthailand.com

I have a question for all those who don't see a need for a gay parade: do you also not believe there is no need to try and prevent the spread of HIV and the loss of young Thai lives that results from it? That is the main motivation of MPLUS, the organisers of the event. Rasing funding and promoting the HIV prevention message is the main reason for the event.

Also, Gay culture in Thailand, as seen by Thai people (not the western view of it), is very different from that seen and accepted in the west. Take for example the number of ladyboys here and events like lady boy shows and contests which are popular even in small farming communities. The culture here is just not the same. For example, should ladyboys have been banned from the Loy Kratong festival parades for the same reasons?

Edited February 5, 2009 by Paagai

[Lobin]

I have a question for all those who don't see a need for a gay parade: do you also not believe there is no need to try and prevent the spread of HIV and the loss of young Thai lives that results from it?

i think that there is a need for doing so, and a worthy cause, so why not have a parade to make people aware of HIV, rather than a gay parade? or are you saying that gays are the main cause of spreading HIV??