Last week I was about to post regarding the ongoing nature of Outside the Box and its effect on Bedlam as a whole, but in particular the import it had had on Bedlam as a stand alone unit.

Naam has beaten me to it, but what it does show is that perhaps more than one has a similar opinion, Bedlam has been dumbed down to a level that far exceeds its previous incarnation, as Bedlam, not the VIP or whatever.

So it leads me to ask, has it degenerated, in my opinion of course, because of Outside the Box, or is it just a natural decline, as in any structural graphic, rise-plateau-fall, or will there be an injection of some other process that can bring about a new dawn.

I was against the new forum, although I understood Robski's reasons for its inception, simply because Bedlam needed the variety of themes, ideas and thought processes and sometime contentious view points.

By separating them we get a Jokes room, a step above the Pub and sometimes a head long fall below it, when the 'Sun' is used as our reference point, or we intend to 'change a letter', or have 'the last word', the alternative is a supposedly more intellectual theatre that degenerates into a flame fest because people cannot debate properly.

When they were mixed, it seemed to be a better place, those that wanted to have a laugh and those that wanted to debate and of course those that wanted the best of both worlds, I think it worked well, I am not so sure about this new place.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Mods/Admin listening to the guys here, I personally think it was rushed without looking at the overall game plan, the rush defence has been broken, the ball has been turned over in the ruck and the wing-three quarter is one on one with prop forward, it is an unequal balance.

Good Luck

Moss

Although I am sometimes in a serious mood, when I log on to ThaiVisa it is usually to relax and forget the stresses of y day.

I basically contribute to Pattaya Forum and Bedlam - many fora I have never even tried to open.

Sometimes I will drift into 'Outside the Box' - usually on a rest-day - and try to be serious, but the rest of the time I treat this web-site as an alternative to going down the pub and enjoying the craic.

So i am fairly content with things the way they are, although I do not contribute to 'Last Words' or similar threads - albeit some of Cuban's puzzles have been interesting, if (to me) obscure.

Although I contribute to other web-sites similar to TV, this is my main 'home' when working in all those strange countries that seem to draw my into their strange gearts.

I must confess that in my misspent youth (early 50s) I was often drawn into strange gearts in strange countries.

On a more serious note I think "outside the box" has worked reasonably well. The message to me there has always been "this is a serious topic, lets not offend the OP by turning it into a joke".

Personally I'd like to see "the last word" and "random posts" pinned to prevent them cluttering up the topics contributed to by people with no interest in increasing their post count with the minimum possible mental effort.

I must confess that in my misspent youth (early 50s) I was often drawn into strange gearts in strange countries.

On a more serious note I think "outside the box" has worked reasonably well. The message to me there has always been "this is a serious topic, lets not offend the OP by turning it into a joke".

Personally I'd like to see "the last word" and "random posts" pinned to prevent them cluttering up the topics contributed to by people with no interest in increasing their post count with the minimum possible mental effort.

I'll never be a piano-player - hit the wrong key again!

That was 'hearts' for all the iggerent among us.

When I come to Bedlam its usually the fun and light-hearted topics that I go to. I admit I rarely even open "Outside the box" section. When I log into TV I usually click the "View New Posts" link, and there is often something there that is serious to read or discuss. By the time im finished there, and i still have energy or want diversion, ill come to bedders for light relief and banter.

Well, there's part of your answer, Moss. It has a variety - humour at different levels as well as serious/thought-provoking topics and moments. Personally, I like the mix. I don't see a need to pin threads such as TLW and Random, but I don't have a strong view on it one way or the other. I also did not see the need to separate OTB, and must admit to being disappointed with how some of the threads in there exposed some vitriol and baiting. Even a mod or two went close to the line (we're all human!). I like your idea of setting up a debate as to the merits of maintaining a separate general Bedlam and OTB. I don't know if a poll is warranted. Perhaps, in this thread, people could (in addition to any other thoughts they have on your OP) address the specific issue:

Should OTB be reintegrated with general Bedlam?

I tend towards the view that they should be reintegrated, but I'm not all that fussed...

I seem to remember that OTB was suggested for more serious topics than Bedlam proper as Bedlam topics to go off-topic and comedic within 2-3 posts and often page 2 is nothing like the op. This being the case I do want to keep OTB. I find it very interesting and for the best part the contributors keep it real.

Bedlam, as has already been mentioned, is a place to go for a bit of madness and I like it that way. So keep them separate is what I choose. I enjoy both.

I'm with Tiggs...............Well said, seperate, If you don't like it, you can stay out of it.

If you don't like it, you can stay out of it.

I agree, if you don't like it here, go home!!

And don't you dare try and rock the status quo!!!

Moss

If you don't like it, you can stay out of it.

I agree, if you don't like it here, go home!!

And don't you dare try and rock the status quo!!!

Moss

Bet you never even saw them

rock the status quo!!!

Bet you never even saw them

I have spent a while wondering what on Earth you were trying to suggest here, was it some enigmatic rejoinder, a clever play on words, a paradigm of insider knowledge, but no, an example of three note wonders of guitar folk lore, but you are right, I have never seen them.

Very subtle

Good Luck

Moss

Discussion of mods/moderation; thread closed. Warnings to be issued.

Discussion of mods/moderation; thread closed. Warnings to be issued.

Don't you think it would be best to get shot of this post, as it obviously isn't closed?

No, leave it, it's quite funny!

No, leave it, it's quite funny!

No it's not

Oops, I reopened and intended to change that- of course, it's now re-opened (and quite a useful discussion, I think)- but please do remember the rules.

With the rules in mind, I'll try again.

I have changed my mind from the response above ( Iused to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure ).

In OSTB, Bedlam pals have gotten nasty and quite entrenched in topics my old mum said amongst friends, It's best not discussed. Heavy handed replies and vitriol do not belong in Bedders. Silly it may have been in general, but there was always room for the odd serious discussion in Bedders of yore and at the end the ADULTS involved sort of respected each others view and moved on......................It was kinda nice that way.

That's true suiging, in Bedders proper we used to say 'okay, we are to differ and move on' in OTB there are a few who will keep chipping away rather than accept that some people have a different 'starting point.'

I still prefer OTB to remain as I hope it will evolve as Bedders did. Who remembers when it was forum full of pointless political debate - oh yes, it was a madhouse then alright!

I agree with you Limpy, although I seem to recall there have been some significant moments of friction in the past in general Bedders as well. Nonetheless, not too many are buying into this thread, so that probably says it all. Where's Kayo?

I texted him but no reply yet.

Tiggs your post #18 dropped in while I was composing my post #19... which means that I took at least twelve minutes to mull over the wording of a single line (which still didn't come off quite as I intended). I must be starting to suffer from seniors' syndrome.

I think the nasty resonses are still few and carried out predominately by a single poster, most of us will take umbrage at the term 'Dummy', just for having a differing point of view, however the pseudo-intellectual bullying has been a problem, along with a certain amount of condescending clap trap, easy to ignore nonetheless.

I still think it is easy to just move on, we do all have differing starting points, but I agree the contstant carping on, with no real move to elaborate on any new point being raised, is a little tedious at times.

It reminds me a little of Geoffrey Boycott in that monotone voice and his playing style:

Deadbat, deadbat, single, deadbat, bouncer over the head, whoa I'd better let that one go, deadbat. End of over. Start of over......................................

And I do remember the madhouse until the rule change, but apparently the old timers still talk about the flame wars previously to that, just waxing lyrical, I'd say.

I also wonder why few are buying into the thread, I even put a few Troll terms in there, just to get it off the ground, perhaps I am losing my touch

Moss

I even put a few Troll terms in there, just to get it off the ground, perhaps I am losing my touch

Moss

Not at all. Most people know your posting style well enough to ignore the troll elements these days (Boy/Wolf)

You could have humoured me

Oh there there Moss...

Sharp intake of breath ...... as I have not contributed to this thread yet, and I'll try to make a good a job of it as I can.

Most contributors to Bedlam I have the utmost respect for, I have either met them personally or met them by association i.e. I have never met Kayo, but I have met Moss, who has. Therefore, I know that the large percentage of members of this small part of Thaivisa are real people and not just anonymous keyboard warriors.

With that in mind, I also know that some people have totally unshakable beliefs, Tigs has his religious stand and I have my view on global warming and there is absolutely no point in trying to change our opinions on something that set in stone.

I was dead set against OSTB from the start mainly because the subject material has ended up being what I expected it to be, subjects that we all go 'tut tut tut' at and then fade out, subjects where good friends stand a chance of not being good friends any more, and subjects where the passing member that just happens to qualify takes a pot-shot at one other or all and sundry.

That all used to happen in Bedlam, but because it was just one sub-forum with quite a lot of humorous crap in it, it didn't matter, arguments were quickly forgotten and buried and members still remained friends, or at the very least maintained some respect for each other.

OSTB is a festering sore.

Not at all. Most people know your posting style well enough to ignore the troll elements these days (Boy/Wolf)

I am, in truth, quite upset about that, I was actually joking, there is only one resident Troll on here and it isn't me.

However there are many forms of a Troll, some are able to create quite an effective information exchange, quite against their original reason to agitate.

With that in mind, I also know that some people have totally unshakable beliefs, Tigs has his religious stand and I have my view on global warming and there is absolutely no point in trying to change our opinions on something that set in stone.

But I think that is the whole point of knowledgeable debate, I would never try and dissuade Tigs or yourself, but possibly put forward an alternative, once we exhaust those alternatives with no movement either way, move on, it is the endless banging down of the same old rhetoric, or the condescending platitudes that have a tendency to wind me up.

In the old Bedlam, the mix of serious and predominately nonsensical was what set it apart, the ability to have a laugh one minute and be quite serious the next complimented each other, I know you can flip between the two forums easily enough, but a certain group think that it is for serious matter and so take it to the extreme.

I haven't fallen out with anybody in there yet, but then that would be a parody of Bedlam as a whole, having said that, I have fallen out with two people on this whole board ( both in the old Bedlam ) one is no longer here and the other, well there is one other, but I agree with Thad, the potential is there.

The thing I disagree with here, is that I do not think it to be a festering sore, it should not have been brought into existence so quickly without more broader input, but I think a festering sore is possibly a bridge too far, however if it continues its present battlefield, without combat humour, we may find that like Arnhem, two sides of the bridge may be taken by diametrically opposed divisions and that sore will fester.

I say do away with it, lets get back to the old mix, with the occasional serious topic, or thread detailing a need for succour and support that cannot be put in an open Forum, that was the essence of Bedlam, it has been watered down, nay dumbed down to depths that should not have been trawled, I may have gone over board here, but are there any life jackets?

Good Luck

Moss

Moss - it was irony - sort of like a reverse troll, if you will. (It worked, but too well - thought you'd see through it.)

Or is your response a triple reverse troll with three quarter pike?

E: On second thoughts, let me be clear. I was joking and certainly not intending to offend. The joke was poorly executed. My apologies - and I am being sincere.

Getting back to the matter at hand, it was Robski who was the prime mover in establishing OTB. It would be nice to hear from him, but he hasn't posted since 19 December (holidays/work commitments?). George gave the final approval. I don't know what would be reqired to have the two reintegrated, but I dare say it would include the need for some fairly persuasive argument by a clear majority of Bedlam regulars. (Wouldn't Admin be thinking, 'Whose to say that the majority, in a year or so's time, would not want to return to separating the two'?)

So if we are to pursue reintegration, Moss (and it seems support is growing for the idea), it may pay you (as prime mover) to PM George as to what material he would like from you/us in order to consider the matter. (He may well indicate that he is unlikely to support the proposal.)

Moss - it was irony - sort of like a reverse troll, if you will. (It worked, but too well - thought you'd see through it.)

Or is your response a triple reverse troll with three quarter pike?

E: On second thoughts, let me be clear. I was joking and certainly not intending to offend. The joke was poorly executed. My apologies - and I am being sincere.

I was hamming it up a little bit, but didn't quite make the triple selko, I certainly didn't take offence, although I did think you were being serious, so my apologies for that, I have been called a Troll before so that didn't help.

Put it down to a fine glass of single malt ( Old Pulteney ) a new one on me and certainly not a classic, but better than your average blended, it hasn't offended me yet and neither have you.

Moss