Do You Make An Effort To Learn Thai?

[Groongthep]

there is definitely a cerebrial/biological aspect to learning a second language as an adult. Even if you have all the motivation and studious discipline in the world, some seem to just click with learning languages and some dont. Interestingly enough, many of the folks I know who are able to pick up Asian languages easily(read and speak) are also very adept with mathematics, sciences, low level computer programming etc... analytical minds who understand things by breaking down complexity into a series of simple steps.

Now I know why farangs who speak Thai are so boring.

The ability to learn a foreign language does not, in my book, make anyone the least bit boring, in fact, just the opposite. I do find shameless self-aggrandising quite boorish however.

[djinn]

I lived most of my life in the US and only learned basic SPANISH. Spanish is useless here so I am glad I didn't bother. I think it is a choice to make the investment in learning Thai or not and I am offended by people who make idiotic generalizations about why people don't bother. I don't doubt being fluent in Thai makes thing easier living in Thailand. But like anything else it is a personal choice that people have as to how to spend their time. This is not a country that is really very interested in assimilating foreigners anyway, you will NEVER be Thai. OK, 99.99 percent of you anyway. I thought I would learn more Thai (I know the very basics) before I moved here but bottom line I would rather read a great English novel or watch a top rate German film than study Thai, any day of the week. I think Thai is a pleasant language though. However, I do not think the cultural treasures awaiting you if you are fluent compare to learning European languages. Yes, I realize that is Eurocentric thinking but I don't care. Become fluent in French, you can read Sartre in the original. What great literature can you read in Thai?

Thanks Jingthing;you wrote it better than I could.

I have the same feelings.

I would just add an answer to the OP question

Laziness, arrogance, fear, stupidity?

laziness: sure

arrogance : not sure.Being practical yes .Why learning a language spoken only by 60 millions people in the world when you live in an area where you can manage your day to day life with english?

I had the same feeling for the dutch language but I had a motivation to learn it . I am belgian and I had to know it to have a great job

And I have an advantage :I don't understand the remarks about farangs in thai.Peace of mind is huuuge

And a disadvantage:Don't understand the only important remarks:the ones from GF with her friends/family

fear:huuh from what?

stupidity :don't think.But I cannot manage any tonal language

So now flame me guys;mai pen rai

[bkkjames]

there is definitely a cerebrial/biological aspect to learning a second language as an adult. Even if you have all the motivation and studious discipline in the world, some seem to just click with learning languages and some dont. Interestingly enough, many of the folks I know who are able to pick up Asian languages easily(read and speak) are also very adept with mathematics, sciences, low level computer programming etc... analytical minds who understand things by breaking down complexity into a series of simple steps.

Now I know why farangs who speak Thai are so boring.

The ability to learn a foreign language does not, in my book, make anyone the least bit boring, in fact, just the opposite. I do find shameless self-aggrandising quite boorish however.

Sorry, I don't know the meaning of this word, do you have a Thai spelling?

[BigSnake]

Yes, learn as must as I can when ever I can, as I would suggest to anyone it sure make your visit here most enjoyable.

[WeeGB]

OK chaps you've shamed me into it.

Living up in the sticks it's hard, if not impossible, to find a decent regular teacher or class. I've tried to learn from my wife, but she says the same word three times and it sounds different every time - no I can't understand why either!!

So if anyone can suggest which of the many CD Roms / various thai language courses for computers they would recommend, I'll give it a go.

Incidentally last time I had a try at learning, my niece asked me what I wanted from the market, so I asked her for 6 boxes of milk. This somehow came out as "some saggy boobs please", which had the kids rolling on the floor laughing - they couldn't understand why I wanted these, as I had them already - cheeky devils.

Poot Thai Nit Noi - but hope to improve.

[bkkjames]

OK chaps you've shamed me into it.

Living up in the sticks it's hard, if not impossible, to find a decent regular teacher or class. I've tried to learn from my wife, but she says the same word three times and it sounds different every time - no I can't understand why either!!

So if anyone can suggest which of the many CD Roms / various thai language courses for computers they would recommend, I'll give it a go.

Incidentally last time I had a try at learning, my niece asked me what I wanted from the market, so I asked her for 6 boxes of milk. This somehow came out as "some saggy boobs please", which had the kids rolling on the floor laughing - they couldn't understand why I wanted these, as I had them already - cheeky devils.

Poot Thai Nit Noi - but hope to improve.

On some BTS stations here in BK, they have these little shops selling cds and books and things - not sure of the quality or cost.

or you can look here... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-language-f43.html

Edited March 13, 2009 by bkkjames

[kiakaha]

there is definitely a cerebrial/biological aspect to learning a second language as an adult. Even if you have all the motivation and studious discipline in the world, some seem to just click with learning languages and some dont. Interestingly enough, many of the folks I know who are able to pick up Asian languages easily(read and speak) are also very adept with mathematics, sciences, low level computer programming etc... analytical minds who understand things by breaking down complexity into a series of simple steps.

Now I know why farangs who speak Thai are so boring.

Fair enough.

But...

What is not boring and why ?

[happylarry]

WeeGB, I have the same problem....people keep saying there are many schools teaching thai in Bangkok but for most ex-pats living in the rest of Thailand there are absolutely zero. Before I decided to have a break from worrying about it I tried with many books and cd's......impossible. As I said in my earlier post I attended a class in Samui before I moved to Isaan and I did really learn a lot, didnt help me to understand if anyone spoke to me but mai-bin-lai, the point is without having the impetus of fellow students and a teacher to impress each day it is so easy to just say "I'll have a go tomorrow".

HL

[Pdaz]

I used to learn 5 new words everyday. I used to have a lot of learning Thai books and hung out with Thai people. I've never been to a class but think it's necessay for some if they have the time/money. When learning to read and write I put aside 1 hour a day, which when you think about it is nothing.

The best way to learn is immersion, in MHO.

I think it's sad when someone who has been here for 20 years can't pick up the local newspaper or have a proper conversation. I'd be embarassed. I remember many years ago sitting in a Pat Pong bar not being able to ask for a knife and fork after being here for 18 months. Knowing then I'd probably be here fo a while, I made a huge effort and am so glad I did.

It's amazing the number of times I go to a new restaurant and the waitress gives a menu to only my wife and totally ignores me. Thailand must be the only country in the world that treats foreigners this way, probably due to the number who can't speak. Can you imagine a waiter in UK asking a Uk woman what her brown-skinned partner wanted to drink.

What do you do to improve your Thai?

If you do nothing, why?

Laziness, arrogance, fear, stupidity?

I can read the newspaper in thai, read the subtitles at the movies and keep up etc...So reading and writing(typing) I've reached a happy place. And I'm always trying to read thai to keep those skills sharp, even when I'm out of the country.

As far as vocabulary goes , i used to do daily word lists, but now i just look up the meaning of a word when i read something in thai script that I dont understand, usually in the newspaper, and the words are usually in areas of speciality ie: law, medical etc....

But i've been pretty disciplined towards reaching a high standard for more than a decade now, certainly not an overnight thing.You get out what you put in.

I've always had a natural inkling to wanting to know how things work..started as a 10 year old when I dismantled the family television....so figuring out the language for me was simply a natural augmentation of that trait.

I'm at about the same standard.. Reading the newspaper can be a pain cos many of the words aren't in the dictionary so I often have to ask the meaning of slang.. Menus, notices and subtitles are easy because they are usually in more formal Thai.. I've been living and working here on and off for around 20 yrs.. I taught myself to read and write and did attend some lessons for spoken Thai when I first arrived.. The big difference to me is that I use Thai everyday.. My girlfriends English is fluent but we use a mixture of the two languages depending on the subject discussed... Elsewhere I use Thai exclusively when visiting shops. businesses and restaurants because it's easier and it seems stupid for me to walk into a Thai business and say ''Hello there I like to buy a....'' or whatever.. Imagine a Polish guy in the UK trying to get by in Polish... It wouldn't work.. Expecting the locals to be profecient in English is daft.. Handy sometimes but you shouldn't expect it..

As for Thais ignoring me and asking my girlfriend for my order etc.. She doesn't tolerate that and often says, 'Tarm Farang si... Khao khaojai moot loi'' or some such

I can't imagine living anywhere without trying to learn the local language.. so far I have picked up Indo, Malay and some HK Chinese.. People telling me that 'They can't learn languages' is utter *ank... They are just too lazy to bother... nothing more to it..

[think_too_mut]

I can't imagine living anywhere without trying to learn the local language.. so far I have picked up Indo, Malay and some HK Chinese.. People telling me that 'They can't learn languages' is utter *ank... They are just too lazy to bother... nothing more to it..

Try to live in Japan and learn the lingo here.

You might learn up to bar girl level, but nothing you can take to the bank.

Me friend you, you friend me.

[NaiGreg]

I really enjoy learning Thai and I've been at it (off and on) for nine years.

However, I must tell you that when discussing this subject (ad nauseum) of learning Thai one must consider that there are three distint branches of language learning in the known universe.

1. All the languages spoken by all the humans on Earth except Thailand.

2. Thai.

3. Whale-speak and dolphin-speak.

It is a different animal. (Don't compare it to learning Spanish. And the Dutch and the Swiss have as difficult a time as the Japanese and the Koreans)

But is is rewarding AND FUN!

-NG

[Maizefarmer]

I used to learn 5 new words everyday. I used to have a lot of learning Thai books and hung out with Thai people. I've never been to a class but think it's necessay for some if they have the time/money. When learning to read and write I put aside 1 hour a day, which when you think about it is nothing.

The best way to learn is immersion, in MHO.

I think it's sad when someone who has been here for 20 years can't pick up the local newspaper or have a proper conversation. I'd be embarassed. I remember many years ago sitting in a Pat Pong bar not being able to ask for a knife and fork after being here for 18 months. Knowing then I'd probably be here fo a while, I made a huge effort and am so glad I did.

It's amazing the number of times I go to a new restaurant and the waitress gives a menu to only my wife and totally ignores me. Thailand must be the only country in the world that treats foreigners this way, probably due to the number who can't speak. Can you imagine a waiter in UK asking a Uk woman what her brown-skinned partner wanted to drink.

What do you do to improve your Thai?

If you do nothing, why?

Laziness, arrogance, fear, stupidity?

Agree - its only a muppet who lives here on a long term basis and makes no effort to learn the language. Learning to speak read and write the language is a must to intergrate.

Lessons are not expensive, and coupled with "immersion" are an excellent to go about it.

[kiakaha]

I can't imagine living anywhere without trying to learn the local language.. so far I have picked up Indo, Malay and some HK Chinese.. People telling me that 'They can't learn languages' is utter *ank... They are just too lazy to bother... nothing more to it..

Try to live in Japan and learn the lingo here.

You might learn up to bar girl level, but nothing you can take to the bank.

Me friend you, you friend me.

Japanese is simple...it doesn't have tones and only has 5 discrete vowel sounds. Any monkey can learn the Hirigana and Katakana charts.Admittedly though, Kanji is more of a long term endeavour.

[scottyd]

I really enjoy learning languages, ones I am interested in anyway. I learned to speak Thai and Japanese a bit, but since I am more interested in Thai at the moment my Japanese skills have withered. But I find if I start learning Japanese again it all comes flooding back with a quick refresher, so it's all good.

The problem with Thai is there aren't many resources to learn from other than basic, whereas Japanese has so many resources from basic to very advanced that will help you get a better understanding of the language as a whole if you kept on studying.

edit: to the above poster, Japanese is easier to learn than Thai I think, but learning to speak it is a completley different ball game than learning to understand it, the Japanese speak like they are on crack.

Edited March 13, 2009 by scottyd

[happylarry]

So a very good debate has now degenerated into name calling...I truly feel sorry for these people who are so small minded that they cant accept others opinions and points of view. Or maybe with all the other languages that they claim to have learnt, they have lost the ability to read and understand the posts on here, written in plain english.

HL

[tw25rw]

there is definitely a cerebrial/biological aspect to learning a second language as an adult. Even if you have all the motivation and studious discipline in the world, some seem to just click with learning languages and some dont. Interestingly enough, many of the folks I know who are able to pick up Asian languages easily(read and speak) are also very adept with mathematics, sciences, low level computer programming etc... analytical minds who understand things by breaking down complexity into a series of simple steps.

I'm terrible at maths, but I have found it reasonably easy to pick up. The writing system is particularly easy, the only complication being a few letters that look the same but sound different. I think being a native English speaker has helped in that I'm used to the idea of silent letters or words that aren't pronounced the way they look.

[rogercw]

Been here three years and my answer to the original question is "no".

[think_too_mut]

I can't imagine living anywhere without trying to learn the local language.. so far I have picked up Indo, Malay and some HK Chinese.. People telling me that 'They can't learn languages' is utter *ank... They are just too lazy to bother... nothing more to it..

Try to live in Japan and learn the lingo here.

You might learn up to bar girl level, but nothing you can take to the bank.

Me friend you, you friend me.

Japanese is simple...it doesn't have tones and only has 5 discrete vowel sounds. Any monkey can learn the Hirigana and Katakana charts.Admittedly though, Kanji is more of a long term endeavour.

Oh, we have a linguist here?

How would this character make his (and his family) living in Japan? He knows the tricks? No difference between learning useless and inferior languages like Thai or Japanese.

English does it all. The real language for real life. That language has not only educated, but has civilized many nations around the planet.

[Pdaz]

I can't imagine living anywhere without trying to learn the local language.. so far I have picked up Indo, Malay and some HK Chinese.. People telling me that 'They can't learn languages' is utter *ank... They are just too lazy to bother... nothing more to it..

Try to live in Japan and learn the lingo here.

You might learn up to bar girl level, but nothing you can take to the bank.

Me friend you, you friend me.

That isn't what I meant... I was refering to guys that live here full time.. Sorry I should have made myself more clear.. However in my original situation I was living in Singapore but working in Southern Thailand.. I still managed to pick up enough to comunicate with our welders and general hands.. The Engineering staff although Thai preffered to speak English but were more than happy to help..No magic, I just bought a book and a dictionary..and asked a lot of questions. Again to clarify what I feel about those who live here for years but still insist they 'can't learn Thai' In their next breath they then come out with some condecending sh!te about how it's easy for 'some people.. Well I'd have to disagree cos it wasn't easy for me.. I just studied hard and tried my best.. There was no natural gift involved other than perseverance. I'll admit I was comparatively young when I started but I was also working 12hr days so not much free time to study. Compare this to guys in Pattaya who have little to do but still can't find time to study for 1hr a day still. I'm not 'fluent' and I'm still learning even after 10 yrs living here this despite still travelling 2-3 Months a year for work.. There is no gift !

I'd rather guys be truthful like Jingthing and just say they have no interest in learning than spout some nonsense about 'it's dificult' That's a given.. If it wasn't we'd all have degrees and wouldn't need to stay in school 12 yrs

Edited March 13, 2009 by Pdaz

[Groongthep]

I can't imagine living anywhere without trying to learn the local language.. so far I have picked up Indo, Malay and some HK Chinese.. People telling me that 'They can't learn languages' is utter *ank... They are just too lazy to bother... nothing more to it..

Try to live in Japan and learn the lingo here.

You might learn up to bar girl level, but nothing you can take to the bank.

Me friend you, you friend me.

I have a friend in Seattle who spent 4 years in Kadena, Japan in the military. He took it upon himself to learn as much Japanese on his own as he could. When he got out of the military he married a JAL flight attendant and attend the University of Washington where he earned a BA in Japanese. He now makes a very good living translating documents from Japanese into English and vice versa. His services are also in high demand to translate spoken Japanese at business meetings held in Seattle. He turns downs many jobs because there are just too many offers coming in.

The moral of the story is: It can be done.

[Jingthing]

The moral of the story is: It can be done.

If everyone was a skilled translator that skill would be worthless. Of course it can be done. I don't think that is the question though.

[Groongthep]

The moral of the story is: It can be done.

If everyone was a skilled translator that skill would be worthless. Of course it can be done. I don't think that is the question though.

I was simply responding to think_too_mut's contention that Japanese is so hard that no one could ever get past the basics.

But I will confess my crime of straying somewhat off topic.

(think_too_mut @ 2009-03-13 03:45:05)

Try to live in Japan and learn the lingo here.

You might learn up to bar girl level, but nothing you can take to the bank.

Me friend you, you friend me.

[henryalleman]

I'm not proud of it, even feel some shame, that after 33 years of marriage my Thai language skills are rather limited, even I speak several other languages, Thai language is a nightmare for me. I can help myself for shopping in restaurant or hotel but having an meaningful conversation in Thai is beyond my limits.

Its just the different tones that make things very complicated for me. When may wife tried to teach me to pronounce kai,kai,kai, kai, kai I gave up. I bought an course on CD and it did well tell the tent't lesson and than for some unspecified reason I stopped.

But I promised myself that after moving up next month, I will go to Berlitz and give it another go.

Because its essential and also a matter of respect that you speak and understand the language of the local population. Its also the only way to realy feel at home in a country.

[ballpoint]

I'm not proud of it, even feel some shame, that after 33 years of marriage my Thai language skills are rather limited, even I speak several other languages, Thai language is a nightmare for me. I can help myself for shopping in restaurant or hotel but having an meaningful conversation in Thai is beyond my limits.

Its just the different tones that make things very complicated for me. When may wife tried to teach me to pronounce kai,kai,kai, kai, kai I gave up. I bought an course on CD and it did well tell the tent't lesson and than for some unspecified reason I stopped.

But I promised myself that after moving up next month, I will go to Berlitz and give it another go.

Because its essential and also a matter of respect that you speak and understand the language of the local population. Its also the only way to realy feel at home in a country.

It's important to know what language the local population speaks. Bangkok's not a problem, they all speak Thai, but I guarantee all the Thai speakers on the forum would be stumped by conversations in my village, where the preferred language is a Khmer dialect. The younger generation's learn Thai at school, but many of the older people here can't speak it. Around us, there's also Isaan, which is similar to Lao, and Suay, a Mon-Cambodian language spoken by the elephant taming communities of Surin. I can speak, read and write Thai, speak the local Khmer, which I've never seen written, except in Thai characters, and am proficient in Isaan. If you can't read Thai you are missing out on one of the pleasures to be had here, getting up on an upcountry karaoke stage and blasting out Loso or Modern Dog with no english subtitles. There's no better way to get to know the locals.

[Jingthing]

Its also the only way to realy feel at home in a country.

Well unless you can get at least a permanent residency status its all an illusion anyway. That feeling I mean.

[MrHammer]

Well I still can't understand fully (except bunches of excuse)---as why those who are making a home here just don't really bother to learn enough thai----- to be able to go about anywhere and do about anything on their own, without any assistance.

Don't you have any in-depth curiousities on the people, and places in the country that now you are calling "home", and wanting to know more than you are already known? And what is the best way to accomplish this if it's not through the common speaking language of the locals, through "your own" contacts and experiences........instead of through words of mouth?

Whether being accept as one of the thais or not, really has nothing to do with it, me think here. It's just for your own basic survival skill, and benefits/goods on daily basis really.

Just like me, I like traveling to Indonesia and I go there often enough that I do make a few friends there.

So I've managed to study the language, good enough to be able to converse to any Indonesians at everyday basic level - real conversation I mean.

And I don't care if they don't see me as one of them, I did it for my own benefits because I want to learn more about them and their country.

And I don't even live there, only go there once or twice a year.

Ok I give up............don't want to learn, still don't see any benefits, then Up to U

I think for some, it is just easier to speak English most of the time. Maybe you don't know that a lot of foreigners here work and socialise with thais with much better English than our Thai. I mean, I would be having childish conversations if I were to speak to them in Thai, and they like to speak English too, as most have studied abroad. Like you do here I guess?

Also it gets a bit tiring sometimes when some thai people are not able to understand things in CONTEXT, meaning if we mispronounce one word, they are not imaginative enough to understand the meaning of the rest of the sentence and make a logical conlusion about the mispronounced word.

In my country, it is actually possible for a Thai to be granted full citizenship after 7 years of stay, so that would be an added motivation for many I think.

But I think this time around I will give my Thai a real chance!

[MrHammer]

I can't stand watching the soap operas for more than 30 seconds - why would I want to understand them?

Well if you don't like this approach, then don't try.

It's just one way to learn the language that's all, and there are many simple and less annoying plots out there.

The main goal here is not whether you like watching soaps or not, it's all about learning the language in quick and easy way.

Well I cant stand math or physic either, but I do have to study them coz I can see the benefits of learning them.

Btw Miss Teacup

I am interested to know how you thought about learning English, especially things like consonant clusters and endings, which I know are difficult for many Asians. Maybe if you can share your experience I will have an easier time getting my head around the tones

[joes125]

I used to learn 5 new words everyday. I used to have a lot of learning Thai books and hung out with Thai people. I've never been to a class but think it's necessay for some if they have the time/money. When learning to read and write I put aside 1 hour a day, which when you think about it is nothing.

The best way to learn is immersion, in MHO.

I think it's sad when someone who has been here for 20 years can't pick up the local newspaper or have a proper conversation. I'd be embarassed. I remember many years ago sitting in a Pat Pong bar not being able to ask for a knife and fork after being here for 18 months. Knowing then I'd probably be here fo a while, I made a huge effort and am so glad I did.

It's amazing the number of times I go to a new restaurant and the waitress gives a menu to only my wife and totally ignores me. Thailand must be the only country in the world that treats foreigners this way, probably due to the number who can't speak. Can you imagine a waiter in UK asking a Uk woman what her brown-skinned partner wanted to drink.

What do you do to improve your Thai?

If you do nothing, why?

Laziness, arrogance, fear, stupidity?

I have to disagree.I have lived all my adult life in asai. And yet, cannot speak a word of any language other than my native english.

And to be perfectly honest with you I am quite happy to leave it that way.

My greatgrandmother once told me when I was very young that one does not help the native's( I know that sounds a tad racist nowaday's but we know what she meant) by leaning their language as much as one does when one teaches them english.

[oevna]

People learn languages for many different reasons, mostly related to motivation, not intelligence (and by "motivation" I don't mean laziness vs. diligence). Plenty of intelligent people work very hard at their jobs in a foreign country and don't learn to speak the local language because they don't have a need to, and plenty of people who might not be considered the most intelligent or hard-working are fluent in more than one language because of their circumstances. Language acquisition ability is so innate to humans that it is pretty removed from overall intelligence (barring true learning disabilities).

Almost anybody can learn another language as an adult if they go about it correctly. Age is probably a factor, but I have met people who started learning a language in their 50's and become pretty fluent. The extent to which age limits the ability to learn a language is not well-understood, and is subject to much debate.

Sure, living in Thailand is more convenient, interesting and fun for some when you can speak Thai, but not everyone finds the same things interesting or fun. Convenience is debatable considering the effort needed to become proficient, unless it's something that you are already motivated to do out of interest in the subject.

EDIT -- Forgot to answer the question in the thread title. I learned to speak Thai somewhat fluently, limited mostly by vocabulary in technical subjects (and can read and write Thai). I started learning for fun initially, and then out of necessity as I ended up volunteering in the Northeast, in an area where few people could speak English.

Edited March 13, 2009 by oevna

[MidoriApple]

...............It's amazing the number of times I go to a new restaurant and the waitress gives a menu to only my wife and totally ignores me. Thailand must be the only country in the world that treats foreigners this way, probably due to the number who can't speak. Can you imagine a waiter in UK asking a Uk woman what her brown-skinned partner wanted to drink.

I think it is because most of Thai people are not fluent in speaking English or they feel not confident enough to talk to native spoken...

Yes, but it is much easier that you just speak your "broken Thai" with them...just to break the ice...

Neeranam, you made me feel regret the time when I was young and my dad put me into the Chinese language class in every sundays...

I also learnt Japanese in every saturdays... Shamed..was too stubborned and always being a rebelled-kid...

So now, I just know only few words, tho I am sure I can survive in these both countries...but I can't get the advantage in business ways..

For the English, coming here in TV is one way practicing my language skill... I disagree going to language school...

Yes, you should go to learn some basic in school, then learn it from your things surrounding....

I come read here, watch movies, listen to the accents, and communicate with foreigners....And also to reply the posts is to practice my writing....

Somebody said the best way is to have "Pillow Talking".... and you know what I mean, right?

Is not essential..actually... just got to be into your Thai companies.... and don't be shy...

It will take some times... as me... I still need to practice in every day.... want to be more fluent....

Is fun..really enjoy speaking English....